Ladies? Could you give us guys some perspective?

[whttevrr]

I keep hearing how Romney has erased the gender gap. And, I am mystified. My participation in the discussion of Pro Choice / Anti Choice is... While sometimes heated, because I do have an opinion; it seems to me that I really have no right to legislate what a woman can or cannot do with her body.

I'm a guy. And I think the right to choose is a heavy decision that involves many aspects of a woman's life that definitely has economic repercussions. So, I gotta ask: When these men on TV tell me that women are more concerned with the economy than 'social issues', what do you women think when you hear these things?

My opinion is firmly in the pro choice column. If I am a participant in the actual conception I do believe I have a right to state how I feel. But, my only choice in the matter, in my opinion, is to support the woman in whatever choice 'SHE' makes.

So after all these stories about what Republicans have planned for overturning Roe v. Wade, exceptions, and defunding Planned Parenthood; what do the women here think of these stories about the evaporation of the gender gap? Can this be real?

I know you ladies don't like to give up your secrets. But do you think women are biting their tongue, saying what they think these men want to hear, and will vote differently when in private?

What gives? What do the women here think?

[southernyankeebelle]

1. Some of those women are probably with the religious right. Now my own sister is

voting for Romney because she is a business owner. It is that simply. She isn't concerned with the social issues. It's all about business. It could be any repbulican running and that is who she will vote for.

[whttevrr]

4. Really?

I don't see Romney as a good economic choice. His numbers just don't add up.

[SoapBox]

13. Ditto! We think he would be horrible...

for any kind of business that is anything but a multi-national, billion/trillion dollar company.

In our case, we only have 4 employees. Money-Boo-Boo and his Repuke/Bagger ilk, couldn't give a CRAP about us.

[BainsBane]

2. No, it's not real

Last edited Thu Oct 25, 2012, 02:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Any poll that doesn't show a gender gap can't be accurate, in my view. AP not only showed Romney caught up with Obama among women, but that the President only trailed by 5 among men. I don't believe either scenario.

Note that other polls recently released continue to show a sizable gender gap. The polls are all over the place this election, and perhaps that has to do to pollsters having trouble adjusting to mobile phones and daily habits of modern-day voters.

[gottavote]

3. Remember this

If you control your own money, you will never have a problem getting birth control or an abortion that you need.

[catbyte]

6. Not if it's illegal

BTW, what's your point?

[Hestia]

49. He or She is correct - read an article about women getting legal abortions

at the hospital in the 1960s. The doctor made some diagnosis that stated it was medically necessary, viola', women with money could get an abortion.

To answer the OP - when I saw the gender gap poll re: women, my first thought is bullshit. Why now would suddenly go for RMoney? Especially when the next poll showed Obama 60% Myth 40% in early voting?

Nate Silver is about the only one I believe anymore and sometimes I wonder about his stats too.

[catbyte]

51. But how long would abortion be legal under R/R?

I know rich women will always be able to get an abortion just like they ALWAYS have even when it was illegal for the vast majority of American women pre-Roe v. Wade--the good old D &C for "heavy periods". This is a class issue, an economic issue, and a social issue.

[BainsBane]

8. Policy is the issue, not how much money any individual has

freeper

[Calypso0956]

10. "Remember this"?

WOW!

Are you kidding me?

I was born at night, but not last night.

People of means can relate to what you are saying. People that are financially strapped, cannot.

Some people have to decide wether to pay their bills or buy food.

Some people don't even have jobs, putting things into perspective, what about teenagers, who are more sexually active, IMO, and get their birth control from their local Health Depts- to prevent STD's and unwanted pregnancies? It's not a matter of controling their money, not all teenagers have jobs.

[BainsBane]

14. Without equal pay for equal work

we don't have money for anything, which is exactly how the GOP wants us, dependent.

[whttevrr]

26. Oh yeah...

There is that too...

I really do hope all these talking heads are just pumping up the numbers for Romney in order to sell advertising. I secretly pray for a sea of blue being flashed across my TV screen on November 7th.

These guys are straight out of the 50's. There was a Mad men reference the other day, maybe yesterday. I heard a woman say something like "We may like to watch Mad Men but we don't want to live it."

[Blue Belle]

41. Except for when...

abortion and contraception become illegal because the fetus is considered a person.

Enjoy your stay - it will be short.

[Coyotl]

5. Ladies? What century are you living in?

It is 'women" my friend, and has been since the last century. Where have you been lurking?

[whttevrr]

16. lol...

I guess when addressing a crowd one should say women and men? Is there no place in this century for the honorific 'ladies and gentlemen'?

It just seems grammatically maladroit to be addressing people in the way you suggest. Huh, I hope my grade school English teacher doesn't see this post.

Color me chagrined. Does it really offend women to be called ladies? I never see men being offended by being called gentlemen.

[leftynyc]

24. It doesn't offend me

but I can't speak for all women.

[faithfulcitizen]

44. As a lady, I think it's perfectly acceptable and polite.

But, I'm in my 30's so maybe I'm old fashioned.

[GallopingGhost]

7. I believe woman are concerned with both.

Yes, I think many women will be voting for President Obama *secretly* I don't believe the media bs that Romney has closed the gap with women. Most of the women I know detest Romney and Ryan.

I have no problem with the word "ladies,"; it's just fine!

[BainsBane]

9. fine by me too, just don't call me "girl"

That I hate.

[whttevrr]

21. whew...

Thanks.

[ohheckyeah]

11. I definitely think some women

will say what the men in their life want to hear and then vote differently. I know my own mother, who is now 86 years old, voted for John F. Kennedy unbeknownst to my dad and his mother who were both staunch Republicans. My grandmother asked my mom who she voted for and my mom said "the voting booth is private for a reason." I'm the only one of her five children that knew up until this year that mom was a Democrat and grew up in a Democratic home.

Having said that, I live about 60 miles from Liberty University and there are a lot of women in this area who will vote Republican no matter what because of what they hear in church. But, there are a lot of liberals who don't say much around here because frankly they are afraid of the rightwing nuts. A friend of mine has a cousin who has had her Obama signs stolen a number of times so the women who live alone are scared to speak up.

Me, I'm too stupid to be afraid and I don't live alone, so I tend to piss a lot of people off around here by speaking my mind. I just don't care what they think of me.

So, yes, I believe there are more liberal women in the red areas than are actually being represented.

[Calypso0956]

20. I agree &

my sister, and friends, in Orlando had their OBAMA/BIDEN signs stolen this past week.

[calico1]

12. I think some of them are of the mentality of

"Oh, no. They would never do anything like that."

They really believe that because something is the law it will always be legal.

[Myrina]

15. It's BS "news"

Always remember, there are lies, damned lies & statistics. And poll numbers are statistics.

[hamsterjill]

17. I can tell you that all of this anti-choice crap infuriates me to no end.

I'm 53 and remember those days when abortion wasn't legal and women were still getting them any way. I also remember the times after Roe v. Wade when women were still afraid to get one if they wanted one for fear of recrimination.

That continues until this day...

I will not ever consider voting for any politician that is not pro choice. This has to do with my life experience. It is a deal breaker for me. Likewise with marriage equality. I have a family member who is gay and I refuse to agree with anyone who thinks he's not entitled to the same rights that I am.

I cannot imagine other women feeling differently because I am so passionate about this myself.

But, obviously some idiot women out there will be voting for Romney. My only explanation is that they don't have that same passion that I have. They are either ill-informed about what is actually at stake (i.e., the Supreme Court), they don't care because they don't think abortion will ever affect them in any way (and it always can), or they are simply so passive because abortion has been available and legal during their entire lifetimes that they don't stop and think that it might not be at some point.

I particularly worry about this last point because of some of my daughter's friends who are nearing their thirties. I don't think they really "get it". They are blissfully unaware. I know that's not true of all younger females, but it is true of some. My daughter is as passionate as I am, obviously, because I raised her to understand these things.

The "religious right" women are so sheepled that they will vote however their clergyMEN dictate. I can't even worry about them because they are too far gone. But I am still hopefully that, especially young ladies, really and truly understand what is at stake here.

Thanks for your viewpoint. I stand firm with you in your believe that you stated. If you are a party to a pregnancy, I believe you have every right to state your opinion, and I believe your partner should take the time to listen to you and think about your opinion. But in the end, the right to continue a pregnancy or terminate a pregnancy is the right of the person whose body that pregnancy will affect. End of story.

[whttevrr]

23. 1973?

I was just a baby back then. I don't know what it was like. but, I have heard the stories and it really does sound horrific. Who would want to go back to that kind of world?

Right now, there are young women who live in Texas who are going across the border to Mexican pharmacies to get around the restrictions there. I cannot imagine anyone thinking that is a good solution.

[ohheckyeah]

32. I had a girlfriend in high school

who almost died from a botched illegal abortion. She ended up having a hysterectomy at 17. When she told me about the specifics of the abortion I went to the restroom and threw up. It was awful.

Never again!

[whttevrr]

35. That, is what is so frightening...

... and sad.

[ohheckyeah]

40. It was heartbreaking...

her boyfriend's family insisted he break up with her. He was the son of a dentist and she was poor.

[whttevrr]

42. {:o(

I just cannot believe women would want to go back to that past.

[ohheckyeah]

45. Seriously...

this woman doesn't want to go back to that.

[Avalux]

18. I am not sure what's going on, but I don't believe Romney's gained ground with women.

He has done nothing that would precipitate such a 'flocking' to him all of a sudden. One would assume these women have been undecided, or were not voting for him but have now switched....and it makes no sense whatsoever.

As a woman, I have paid close attention to Romney's statements and actions, which prove he is not for gender equality (binders full of women??) and most importantly, he can't be trusted because he'll say anything. He is degrading to women and even offensive. Women should be moving AWAY from him.

I don't believe today's headline. I simply don't. Someone paid A LOT of money to put those numbers out there, to try and make people believe women love Romney.

[Lex]

19. Some Republican women will say on the phone that they are for Romney BUT

when they are in the booth they won't necessarily vote for him. I know this because I have an Aunt who votes her own way despite what she says to her husband to keep him from badgering her.

[justiceischeap]

22. According to a May 2012 Gallup poll, women who support choice are @ 44%

Making the anti-choice percentage 46%... no undecided's there. So, depending on how the poll was weighted and all that other jazz when it comes to polls, this Mourdock thing could be helping RMoney with some women. Some women may have seen him as too supportive of abortion, and that's where the gap is narrowing.

That said, I don't buy that it's narrowing significantly. I refuse to believe women are that, um, I can't think of anything that isn't insulting to women and I don't want to insult my own gender.

[LeFleur1]

28. Some Women...

...still walk five steps behind their man. It's sad, but true. They are probably too young to remember the wars for women's rights, or maybe they are of some cult religion and believe they will go to heaven if they just do as they are told and shut up, wait for their reward in heaven. Perhaps they haven't been exposed to the pain some women survive because of prejudicial health treatments, or the death stats of some of those who didn't. OR ...sigh...maybe they are just too stupid to know what is at stake.

[Jennicut]

25. Chris Cillizza pointed out a little while ago that Romney was never

as down among women as McCain was. I think there is still a gap there but it was not as big as McCain's was. McCain was losing women simply because it was not a Repub year. The economy crashed with Bush still as President. That simply moved a lot of people toward Obama.
Obama has improved in some polls among men while Romney has improved in some polls with women. But per most polls, Romney has a slight edge with men and Obama has a slight edge with women. Women traditionally turnout better then men do in Presidential elections. About 10 million more women voted in 2008 then men did so that edge is more meaningful for Obama.
One more thing to think about. Women under 45 are much more supportive of Obama then women over 45. Especially childless, single women under 45. There is a generational breakdown in the support of women for Romney. Since many LV models tend to over represent older voters (who picks up the phone more, less cell phones called) this can mislead Romney's numbers with women.

[whttevrr]

33. I've seen that...

...not specifically the Chris Cillizza thing but definitely been seeing the notion that the polling is flawed by concentrating on land lines. I hope that is a real flaw in the polling. I know a lot of people who do not have a land line phone. I do not even answer mine. I keep it just to have a phone in case my internet, and cell phone go out. But chances are, anything that can knock out the internet and cell phones will trash the land line as well.

The braying about Romney closing the gender gap really strains my sense of ... what's the word I'm looking for... WTF'edness?

We as a people should never had let The Right take the 'pro life' moniker. I wish 'anti choice' had stuck to them like the truth it is.

[Jennicut]

34. I don't think he has closed the gender gap.

I think the gender gap was never as huge as the media made it out to be per the actual polling. In most state polls, Obama still has a slight lead with women and Romney has a slight lead with men. Only a few national polls showed Romney even with women and like I said, it depends on their LV screens and what women they reached when polling.

I found the article Chris Cillizza wrote:

"Let’s assume for the sake of argument that Romney loses women on Nov. 6 by 8.5 points — his average deficit in those three polls among registered voters. (His average deficit among likely voters in those same three polls was 7 points.)
That would be a better showing among women than John McCain made in 2008 (lost women by 13), George Bush made in 2000 (lost women by 11) and Bob Dole made in 1996 (lost women by 16). It would be roughly equal to the eight-point margin that George H.W. Bush lost women to Bill Clinton in 1992.
So, for all of the chatter about Romney’s women problems, he is currently positioned to do as well or better than every Republican presidential candidate among female voters save one: George W. Bush in 2004 who lost among women by just three points to Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/10/18/mitt-romney-doesnt-have-a-woman-problem-at-least-not-yet/

[procon]

27. My economy begins at home.

Pregnancy IS a socio-economic issue; you can't separate the two and it has a domino effect that extends to the whole community.

Regardless of the circumstances, if the state forced me to remain pregnant, that would certainly have an adverse affect on my ability to provide a comfortablele living for my family. I can't imagine going back to the days when both contraceptives and abortions were illegal and women were forced to accept the consequences of unplanned pregnancies.

I'm now retired, but I could not have run my small business under those circumstances. I was never in the $$$ range to be fazed by anything I've heard from Romney. He seems focused more on the high end of the economicc scale with the banking sector and extraction and pollution industries and not small, local businesses.

[YoungDemCA]

31. Excellent post

nt

[SheilaT]

29. I find it totally unbelievable that

Romney could possibly have erased the gender gap. Unless (and this is actually very important) all of Romney's many positions on every single issue is allowing women who would otherwise vote against him to now be convinced that he will never take away access to abortion. But it is totally clear, at least to me, that this is a man who can't be trusted.

[BlueInPhilly]

30. My neighbor is all about welfare

And how unfair it is for working people. She's Catholic and doesn't see the irony. Of course she's voting for Willard.

[whttevrr]

36. Oh Mannn...

Don't get me started on religion. The hypocrisy is... gggrrr...

[Alekei_Firebird]

38. Fake Catholics

They're only in that church to sneer down at pro-choice and pro-gay marriage people.

[YoungDemCA]

37. My aunt (uncle's wife) is a Tea Party leader in Ohio....

I, like the OP, am male, so I grant that I don't have the perspective that the women here have.

However, re: my aunt-she is an evangelical Christian who never went to college and never really worked full-time, either. Not that she had to, of course: my uncle is a successful senior executive in his company. They certainly aren't struggling.

Based on both my own personal observations and some general statistics I've seen, I've noticed that many of the women who are supporting Romney/the Republicans in general are married, (often with children at home), highly religious, and more often than not, in a "traditional" nuclear family unit where the husband/father is the primary breadwinner and the wife/mother raises the kids.

Such "traditional" households tend to be Republican because the Republicans are constantly talking about 'Christian morals" and "family values", so the men and women who perceive themselves to have those values believe that the Republicans must be talking about them.

Additionally, such households tend to be right-wing on economics because both the men and the women of those households identify with patriarchy and hierarchy. Often (but not always) the (usually male) breadwinners have fairly high incomes. Calls of "personal responsibility", directed at the poor, minorities, single women, etc. appeal to these households because it's a way to relieve their own anxieties about status and social class, and to deflect the "responsibility" onto those less fortunate than them.

That being said, I don't believe that the gender gap has disappeared. When the exit polls are released after the election, you will see a bigger gender gap than certain pundits would have you believe.

[whttevrr]

39. Thank You!

Thanks to all for the responses. I hope after this election that people remember what is at stake in 2014. The history of our political system has often seen a separation between the parties in congress and the presidency. But I think the Republicans have moved so far to the right that even a moderate legislator appears to now be to the left. We as a country definitely need the pendulum to start moving in the other direction.

I myself, had been registered as a Republican for many years. I recently changed my registration to non affiliated. I really have not changed much in my beliefs, and I have been voting non partisan for several years. I just do not see the Republicans as representative of what I believe in and have always believed in. I liked the idea of the 'compassionate conservative', too bad it was a lie. Again, I have not changed all that much. What has changed is the ferocity and the ignorance of those leading the movement of the republicans to the radical right. It is now just too obvious to overlook.

I remember the rise of the "Christian Coalition" and the "Moral Majority", but now they have morphed into a new and dangerous creation that is no longer a funny fringe part of the Republican Party. It is insane. I cannot believe that America now has it's own brand of religious ideology that is right in step with the Taliban. The party that was so freaked out about Sharia Law is now trying to implement its own brand of religious non freedom.

It's scary. And what scares me the most is what these men who are running for office are saying about women and the reality that they cannot be in office without the support of women. It truly mystifies me. The news reporting wants us to believe that the women of this country want to vote us back to a time when women had to ask men for permission to do anything.

I may be cynical, but I am not heartless. I cannot believe in this. I just can't.

[BainsBane]

43. Thanks for your vote!

and contribution to the board.

[courseofhistory]

46. Many women are their own

and others' worst enemy. Just like others, they latch onto one issue such as jobs and overlook everything else. I think the women esp. who are voting for Romney are low information voters and voters who don't care about other women. If their lives are fine and they have no personal problems with contraception or abortion, they don't really care.

I'm a woman and the right's platform against and statements against women's contraception and reproduction rights is very offensive. It shouldn't have much to do with what your status is but rather putting women back into the secondary citizen category ala the 1950's.

Also, if women (and men) can't see that Romney is not a job creator but job destroyer and that he has repeatedly said government can't create or doesn't create jobs, why vote for him if your issue is jobs. He as a president will be able to do very little to create jobs but he can do a lot to set women back which will affect their futures, jobs and lives.

I guess I have to attribute a lot of this to ignorance, sad to say.

[OldDem2012]

47. If Romney has erased the gender gap then I'm Santa Claus. nt.

[gkhouston]

48. I haven't heard (or overheard) any women say they've switched to Romney.

It's likely a big steaming pile o' poo.

[Tenleytown]

50. hmmmm....

if he is picking women up it's :White married females.

It's not young women or minority women or single women. Sorry. Nope.


I have 200 FB "friends"---one is a NJ white married 50+ rabid Catholic who I knew in college....(disclaimer--I am a married fallen Catholic rabid pro choicer.).. She is in love with Romney.


We need to get our young voters to the polls.