Thom Hartmann's Analysis of the NY Democratic Debate

[Gregorian]

I didn't realize that Bernie was hoping Warren would run, and that when Elizabeth Warren didn't respond to the petitions requesting for her to run, he decided to enter the race.

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[DookDook]

1. Thank you, I missed this on the show today. n/t

[JoePhilly]

2. Yup ... the "movement" wanted Warren, she said "No."

This is the real problem for the disgruntled left.

They spent 7+ years complaining about Obama ... and yet did nothing to build up a slate of "acceptably liberal" candidates for 2016.

After Obama won in 2012, around 2014, they realized they needed a candidate for 2016. And Warren was their top pick. But she did not want the job. So, when it was clear those angry folks had no standard bearer, Bernie said "Ok, I'll do it."

The "movement", if it wants to be an actual "movement", needs to get its act together. You can't sit around for years and then just expect a savior to pop up out of nowhere.

So sure, they love, love, love Bernie now ... but they've had to work very hard to forget that he was not their #1 choice.

[Yavin4]

6. Compare your post to the conservative movement

For decades, they have organized and cultivated figures who have national name recognition.

[JoePhilly]

7. Yup, started at the local level and all the way up.

And at every level they would take any incremental success they could get.

Tea party is hurting them in that regard now. They want all or nothing. Which is where some of our Bernie folks seem to be as well.

[Yavin4]

8. Which is why our government is tilted to the right.

The left labors under the impression that if a prominent national Liberal/Left figure is elected president, then all will be well, but that's not how it works. It's at the grassroot/local/state level where you need Liberal/Left figures to get anything done.

Look at the ridiculous laws being passed about gender in some states. A President Sanders/Warren/Tim Robbins wouldn't be able to do a damn thing about it.

[passiveporcupine]

10. I think you have it backwards

First off, I think this shows that Bernie is in the race for us, not him. Or he would have tried to get in right away, even if it meant running against warren.

And while I think you are right, that the democratic party is bankrupt right now in selecting adequate nominees to run for what the party should be all about (Hillary is a great example of that)...when Bernie stepped up and offered to run for us, as a dem, because he shares the same goals as the progressive liberal side of our party and of the country (including independents and republicans), we were and are still thrilled to have a statesman like him running for us. Warren would be great too.

I think it's the right wing side of the democratic party that is upset that it couldn't find a better candidate than Hillary (she has too much baggage and is too unpopular) who is fighting to convince themselves that she is the best they could do and is the ultimate best choice for the party, and in the process you need to cut down a good man who stands for everything the democratic party should stand for.

[JoePhilly]

11. The folks who support Hillary are happy she's running.

She was our first choice.

The other problem the disgruntled left has is that no one will ever measure up for them.

Even if Bernie became President, theyd turn on him after his first compromise.

[passiveporcupine]

12. You certainly don't speak for us

While I know a lot of people turned on Obama after his first compromise and then more with each one, I never did.

[BernieforPres2016]

3. I still can't figure Hartmann out

He keeps pretending or trying to convince himself that Hillary is moving to the left. He excused her taking corporate money to fund her campaign by saying that until Bernie, nobody believed it was possible to raise the required money from small contributors. He is suggesting that she only did it because she had to. As if all the Clinton money grubbing personally and via the Clinton Foundation over the last 15 years never happened. If he thinks Hillary could have raised the kind of money from small contributors that Bernie has, he's delusional. She doesn't have the issues, the voting record, the consistency and the authenticity that has enabled Bernie to tap into and expand a progressive political movement.

But it wasn't that long ago that I watched Hartmann interview Thomas Frank about his book "Listen, Liberal", which Hartmann had read and understood. Frank's book is extremely critical of the Clintons as pro-business, Third Way Democrats who basically completed the separation of the modern Democratic Party from the policies of FDR.

But now Hartmann keeps trying to pretend, or to convince himself, that Hillary is at heart a progressive, and not really so much different than Bernie. He has flashes of being annoyed with Hillary and her supporters, but then drops right back into the Democrats versus the Republicans.

[pdsimdars]

5. Me too.

[Gregorian]

13. He has an audience.

He might know his demographic has a fair number of Clinton supporters. Plus, there is another thought: that he may not want to offend anyone on the fence. After all, if one person who could have learned about why we like Bernie is offended, then having a show that just satisfies the converted might be considered a failure.

[ScreamingMeemie]

4. Someone had to.

We need to do this or we are left with nothing but what passes for a monarchy.

[passiveporcupine]

9. Thom makes a great point at the end there.