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SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:10 PM Apr 2016

Sanders faces a hard reality in New York: Some of his most ardent backers can't vote for him

The men and women who make up one of Bernie Sanders’ best political assets in New York are doing just about everything to help him except one: vote.

The Working Families Party, a nearly two-decade-old political force in the Empire State, has sprung into action on behalf of Sanders, the independent-turned-Democratic presidential hopeful. But only registered Democrats can vote in Tuesday's primary, shutting out the nearly 50,000 Working Families members.

Though their ranks are minuscule compared with the state's 5.8 million Democrats, Sanders' inability to count on support at the polls from them or others outside the Democratic Party underscores the reality that a core source of his strength throughout the nomination battle, independent liberals, can’t vote for him in dozens of states, including New York.

In this unexpectedly drawn-out Democratic primary in which delegates are awarded proportionally, a few thousand votes here or there could help Sanders snatch a handful of delegates from front-runner Hillary Clinton. Sanders’ campaign has said its current strategy to win the nomination is to come within striking distance of Clinton in pledged delegates and persuade the so-called superdelegates, party leaders and elected officials who can back the candidate of their choosing and who largely support Clinton, to switch allegiances.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/la-na-sanders-closed-primary-20160415-story.html


Locked in LBN http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141415463
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Sanders faces a hard reality in New York: Some of his most ardent backers can't vote for him (Original Post) SecularMotion Apr 2016 OP
They should JOIN THE FUCKING PARTY if they want to shape or influence the party's choice. NurseJackie Apr 2016 #1
+1 Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #4
The Democrats cannot win with the Party alone. dogman Apr 2016 #11
Maybe they would join the party... TCJ70 Apr 2016 #14
agree 100% - the Democratic nominee should be determined by Democrats DrDan Apr 2016 #33
And they are free to enjoy their minority status. dogman Apr 2016 #40
I urge you guys to close it in all 50 states nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #83
aren't you from California? I thought political parties in California had the option DrDan Apr 2016 #94
Yes, we have that option nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #96
Is that your definition of a Big Tent party? floriduck Apr 2016 #62
They were too busy with their video games and their bong hits. Gomez163 Apr 2016 #65
Wow. Stereotypes. You're so incredibly clever. BlueStater Apr 2016 #92
Damn right! workinclasszero Apr 2016 #71
Nice dead line choice...I see disenfranchisement runs strong with in you. northernsouthern Apr 2016 #88
The deadline in NY was October of last year... so my suggestion is an improvement. NurseJackie Apr 2016 #95
So you just want to let the insiders control it? northernsouthern Apr 2016 #104
The doors are open to anyone who's serious enough to join...then they'll be "insiders" too. NurseJackie Apr 2016 #105
Wow, the world is so much easier in black and white! northernsouthern Apr 2016 #106
Either you're serious or you're not. Choose a party and work with it ... NurseJackie Apr 2016 #107
So you are doubling down? northernsouthern Apr 2016 #108
Well ... keep posting more complaints on DU and maybe things will change. NurseJackie Apr 2016 #109
I am sure you care. northernsouthern Apr 2016 #110
No system is perfect, and no party is perfect, and no candidate is perfect. You have to ... NurseJackie Apr 2016 #111
You know I am responding to your posts for that reason. northernsouthern Apr 2016 #112
Typing FUCKING in all-caps does make your obviously stupid reason into a smart one. hellofromreddit Apr 2016 #98
Voter suppression is nothing new. dogman Apr 2016 #2
A closed primary is not voter suppression Tarc Apr 2016 #3
If you can't vote, your vote has been suppressed. dogman Apr 2016 #7
So the fact that I can't vote in BOTH the Democratic and Republican Primaries is voter suppression? brooklynite Apr 2016 #13
No, that's just stupid. The fact you cannot vote in either is. dogman Apr 2016 #16
It's free and easy Renew Deal Apr 2016 #15
No, walk into the booth and vote, that is free and easy. dogman Apr 2016 #17
"I'm 16, I can't vote! SUPPRESSED!" Tarc Apr 2016 #18
More stupidity, under those conditions, you are not a voter. dogman Apr 2016 #20
Under NY conditions, independents aren't voters Tarc Apr 2016 #22
And that is voter suppression. dogman Apr 2016 #24
You haven't the slightest idea what the word means Tarc Apr 2016 #25
Neither I or the dictionary apparently. dogman Apr 2016 #30
Again Tarc Apr 2016 #32
Except in a party primary. Historic NY Apr 2016 #36
No, that is NY's Primary process. dogman Apr 2016 #42
If you want people to GTFO in the primary then they will GTFO out in the general as well Bjorn Against Apr 2016 #23
When you see a desire to suppress votes, you must ask yourself, dogman Apr 2016 #26
Party Leadership is Corrupt DRI Apr 2016 #51
a 17-year old cannot vote - are they being suppressed? DrDan Apr 2016 #34
Are they a legal voter? dogman Apr 2016 #44
"if you can't vote . . . " - nothing there about a "legal voter" - moving the DrDan Apr 2016 #45
Yeah right. dogman Apr 2016 #48
so you admit there are a few rules . . . . thank you DrDan Apr 2016 #49
I want to vote in the NY primary . . . but do not live there . . . SUPPRESSION!!!! DrDan Apr 2016 #47
Then you are not a voter in NY by definition. dogman Apr 2016 #53
and a voter needs to indicate a party preference to vote in a closed primary DrDan Apr 2016 #57
Yes, if a closed primary makes sense. dogman Apr 2016 #63
glad my state does - Dem candidate selected by Dems - makes sense DrDan Apr 2016 #68
How about people following well established rules that weren't "suppression" the last 2412423 times? uponit7771 Apr 2016 #54
How democratic was it? dogman Apr 2016 #58
Enough democratic the last 214o1234 times... no? tia uponit7771 Apr 2016 #60
I don't know, I don't live there. dogman Apr 2016 #69
It is voter suppression Bjorn Against Apr 2016 #12
Were you the one claiming a four block walk was suppression? bettyellen Apr 2016 #38
Yes forcing people to walk half a mile is voter suppression as well Bjorn Against Apr 2016 #43
Nope, having your name purged is suppression. Having expensive ID requirements is suppression. bettyellen Apr 2016 #50
If you are going to claim something is not voter suppression at least get your facts straight Bjorn Against Apr 2016 #59
I agree caucuses suppress the vote- but a four block distance from the polls? Nope. bettyellen Apr 2016 #70
Probably because you are not paying attention Bjorn Against Apr 2016 #74
you yourself chose the four block walk to complain about instead of the fact that it was a bettyellen Apr 2016 #78
You must not have read the entire post Bjorn Against Apr 2016 #93
The rules in New York are decades old. Democrats know them. Non-Democrats do not. Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #5
I said voters, not Democrats. dogman Apr 2016 #8
In the context of this OP, "voters" in the general sense is irrelevant. Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #10
I think part of the problem is people treating this like it's a two-round presidential election nemo137 Apr 2016 #6
So the GOP is not engaging in voter suppression? dogman Apr 2016 #46
In the case of people registered to a third party not being able to vote in a closed Dem primary? nemo137 Apr 2016 #82
I haven't seen mention of a third party, so yes it is seperate. dogman Apr 2016 #91
The OP was about WFP members and independents not being able to vote in a Dem primary next week. nemo137 Apr 2016 #103
I agree. Close them all in all 50 states nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #89
It's time to come out of the dark ages and have open primaries nationwide. basselope Apr 2016 #9
how do you stop hill2016 Apr 2016 #19
How do you stop in person voter fraud??? basselope Apr 2016 #21
by criminalizing it, nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #27
But that supposedly didn't work, so they need voter ID laws. basselope Apr 2016 #29
what???? nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #31
That's what voter ID laws are all about. basselope Apr 2016 #35
that's a rightwing talking point. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #41
I know that. basselope Apr 2016 #73
Closed primaries are more important to smaller parties geek tragedy Apr 2016 #76
Oh please... basselope Apr 2016 #80
because that way they can't wait until the last minute and decide geek tragedy Apr 2016 #84
In years like this the claim is nonsense... basselope Apr 2016 #99
it's not suppressing to allow Democrats to pick their own leadership geek tragedy Apr 2016 #100
No, it's not. basselope Apr 2016 #101
Rare as hell. Up there with actual voter fraud nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #90
You really should worry more about people from your own side voting for the weakest candidate hellofromreddit Apr 2016 #97
No, thank you. I don't want Republicans choosing Democratic candidates. Arkansas Granny Apr 2016 #52
LOL. So you are FOR voter ID laws then? basselope Apr 2016 #77
I am for voting in the primary of your registered party (which I did). Arkansas Granny Apr 2016 #79
So you don't want to see the two best candidates? basselope Apr 2016 #81
How is choosing a party when you register to vote suppressing the vote. Arkansas Granny Apr 2016 #86
This primary election is part of choosing the DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S MineralMan Apr 2016 #28
It would be simple if you had a time machine. dogman Apr 2016 #37
And a lot of democrats and Independents won't vote for Clinton in the GE. Autumn Apr 2016 #39
Even more wont vote for Sanders... so what? uponit7771 Apr 2016 #55
so what?....Reading. It's fucking awesome nt Autumn Apr 2016 #64
Understanding is even more awesome no? tia uponit7771 Apr 2016 #67
Oh I understand plenty. Autumn Apr 2016 #85
This is about GROUND GAME and Bernie's campaign screwed this one up. apnu Apr 2016 #56
Yeap, the half time show uponit7771 Apr 2016 #61
This suggests that Hillary could very well outperform the latest polls. DCBob Apr 2016 #66
The soundtrack for the Sanders campaign is the 'Price is Right' fail noise, at this point. IamMab Apr 2016 #72
Here go you... NurseJackie Apr 2016 #75
Thanks! nt IamMab Apr 2016 #87
yes we know limiting voter participation works for Clinton azurnoir Apr 2016 #102

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
1. They should JOIN THE FUCKING PARTY if they want to shape or influence the party's choice.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:12 PM
Apr 2016

That's how the party works in NY, and personally, I think that's how it should work everywhere.

But I would shorten the deadline for party registration to at least 6 months before the primary date. Aside from that, PARTY activities should be restricted to those who actually identify as being members of the party.

Just because Bernie can "declare" that he's running "as a Democrat" on the spur of the moment, doesn't necessarily mean that his supporters can just ignore the rules and declare that same luxury for themselves.

Note to Jury: The above statements represent my opinion/s. No DU rules or terms of service have been violated. It is not against the rules to have an opinion that differs from the Alerter.

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
14. Maybe they would join the party...
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:23 PM
Apr 2016

...if they could at this point. NY's deadline for switching parties was before the first debate! That's ridiculous.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
40. And they are free to enjoy their minority status.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:43 PM
Apr 2016

I think they should broaden their base and win.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
83. I urge you guys to close it in all 50 states
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:23 PM
Apr 2016

But we the tax payers do not get saddled with administering and paying for the primaries. That will make the both of us happy. Close them, and I won't pay for it

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
94. aren't you from California? I thought political parties in California had the option
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:35 PM
Apr 2016

to hold closed primaries.

If so, are you withholding taxes that fund these elections?

or am I mistaken?

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
96. Yes, we have that option
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:40 PM
Apr 2016

They can hold closed primaries, but this is the use of public funds, a gift essentially, for a private function. You are claiming you are a private entity, by all means. By the way I include the GOP (closed) the Greens (closed) and the Peace and Freedom, iirc ( closed)

Phew, Dems right now would not be affected, semi open.

The wrinkle here is that it would only apply for the primaries. In reality all state elections are modified run off right now.

See...I am really concerned about voter participation, not the mythical reasons. But you insist...I don't want to pay as a tax payer for a private function. My Supreme Court said such. Heck, I am annoyed at my mayor for playing Spanos' game over the Chargers. Same shit actually. He wants a stadium, fine, pay for it

 

northernsouthern

(1,511 posts)
88. Nice dead line choice...I see disenfranchisement runs strong with in you.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:28 PM
Apr 2016
But I would shorten the deadline for party registration to at least 6 months before the primary date. Aside from that, PARTY activities should be restricted to those who actually identify as being members of the party.



Wow how nice of you to reduce the timeline to something that is greater than that of any other state. So you want voters to look in to the future and say, hey that person has a view I like, I will join this party! You do know the DNC is the smallest it has been, 29% in ages. You are in the minority, the majority of voters are not members of any of the two parties, if they all voted for an Independent party no Democrat or Republican could ever win (this is making a generalization that they are one solid voting block for effect). I am glad you are happy with the system, seems odd you want to destroy our party but it is your option. You should add a purity test to this too.

Long live the system!!!!

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
95. The deadline in NY was October of last year... so my suggestion is an improvement.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:40 PM
Apr 2016
So you want voters to look in to the future and say, hey that person has a view I like, I will join this party!

Nope. I want people who actually want to participate in the party for the PARTY'S sake, not because they are momentarily enthralled with a particular candidate. Save that for the General Election. If someone wants to shape the party, then they really should at the very least demonstrate their sincerity by actually being a member of the party. Mature and committed friends of the party should choose who leads it, not fickle voters who flit-in and flit-out based on their whims and emotions.

Cool gif!



Go, Hillary! We love you!




Note to Jury: The above statements represent my opinion. No DU rules or terms of service have been violated. It is not against the rules to have an opinion that differs from the Alerter.

 

northernsouthern

(1,511 posts)
104. So you just want to let the insiders control it?
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 02:15 PM
Apr 2016
Nope. I want people who actually want to participate in the party for the PARTY'S sake, not because they are momentarily enthralled with a particular candidate. Save that for the General Election. If someone wants to shape the party, then they really should at the very least demonstrate their sincerity by actually being a member of the party. Mature and committed friends of the party should choose who leads it, not fickle voters who flit-in and flit-out based on their whims and emotions.


Soooo much to work with here, so very telling...

First line You only want people, good to know you are the deciding vote.

You say momentarily like an insult, but you are ignoring sooooooooooooo much, new voters, voters that moved, voters that changed their mind, voters that are becomming inspired. What you are describing is a inclusive boys club, not democracy...which could be common for HRC supporters since statically they belong to inclusive clubs like golf, yachting, dressage, etc far more.

So you know that people that participate in the primary are more involved with those that don't. The percentage of people voting in the DNC from the party is the lowest in the areas that Hillary is winning (as in record low). In other areas where people were allowed to join where close to the Obama election or far greater (specifically for the Democratic primary election). So you are 100% percent incorrect in trying to paint these people as the ones not involved.

You reliance on a Democrat purity test (should be a democrat) is very Carl Rovian...not that of a party called Democratic.


You line about Mature and committed friends of the party should choose who leads is a line could not note have dreamed on goating out of an HRC with out even trying! That is elitist, that is exactly the meaning! You are attacking the younger voters (45 and younger) and throwing in nepotism (one of the biggest problems with with government gobs, a system where the skilled are not hired, just the friends). You are aware that nepotism is not a good thing right? The fact that Hillary keeps and enemies list fits this narrative too.

And your last line is truly showing your privileged, lack of empathy, and disdain for the working class"not fickle voters who flit-in and flit-out based on their whims and emotions".

Verdict you get 4 "Marie Antoinette"s




Disclaimer: This is not endorsing the myth that Marie Antoinette said the line, but it to use the narrative that the attributed line embodies of an upper-class out of touch with the common folk.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
105. The doors are open to anyone who's serious enough to join...then they'll be "insiders" too.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 02:22 PM
Apr 2016

See? Wasn't that simple?

1) Pick a party.
2) Join it.
3) Participate in it.

Can't decide on a party? Then declare yourself to be "Independent" and do nothing until the General Election. (Or, support your favorite candidate by donating or volunteering during the nomination process.)

Nobody is shut-out unless they CHOOSE to be shut-out. It's always THEIR CHOICE.

Play by the rules, or don't play. It's really not that hard.


Go, Hillary! We love you!




Note to Jury: The above statements represent my opinion. No DU rules or terms of service have been violated. It is not against the rules to have an opinion that differs from the Alerter.

 

northernsouthern

(1,511 posts)
106. Wow, the world is so much easier in black and white!
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 02:36 PM
Apr 2016
Nobody is shut-out unless they CHOOSE to be shut-out. It's always THEIR CHOICE.

Yes that is, cut and dry, people that were dropped from the voter registry, or people that had not joined, or had just moved in, had to deal with sickness, depression, hardships, they can shut up and sit down, we only want people that know 6 months ahead of time, so basically heavily weighted to the biased, uniformed, close-minded, sheep, sycophants, insiders? Since while there are a large amount of amazing Democrats, it is statistically the people that have pre-judged who they are voting for who a closed door policy would benefit. The only good thing that some of the republican states have just done is to stop making the entire state fund the closed party elections, it was partially because it is such an easy sell to say hey look the parties are basically asking you to pay for their election rigging.

Sorry you just made it to 5, so here is your extra one...





NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
107. Either you're serious or you're not. Choose a party and work with it ...
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 02:53 PM
Apr 2016

... you really can't expect to flit around like a bumble bee going from flower to flower and expect the party to think you're truly interested unless you're willing to make the (easy) commitment of declaring a party on your voter registration.

You don't need to know the specific candidates who may be running in order to know if one party or the other is a closer match for your personal beliefs. If you're truly in the middle, if you're truly independent and if it's true that neither party comes close to your personal beliefs then you get to wait until the general election.

If you're afraid of commitment, or if you feel a sense of personal pride in being a free-thinking "independent", well, you'll just have to live with the consequences of that choice (depending on the rules of your state) and that's fine too. But don't complain to me about your choice.

That's how our system works. Mature voters know how to make decisions and make commitments without having to be enticed by any one pop-star candidate.

Ultimately, the choice is always yours. Choose or don't choose. It's up to you. Declare party affiliation early enough, and indicate your seriousness early enough and you get to participate in choosing the nominee.

But, if you're too late for this round, then there are other ways to help your favorite candidate. And... on the plus side, by becoming a party member NOW, those people will be able to easily participate in which candidate/s the party chooses in future primaries.

It's not my decision to make for you. You have to take responsibility for your own choices and not blame others and not be the "victim" of some conspiracy to disenfranchise you from the process.

Or... as a final option, you can just complain about it to anonymous strangers on internet political discussion forums, and do nothing. Whatever floats your boat.



Go, Hillary! We love you!




Note to Jury: The above statements represent my opinion. No DU rules or terms of service have been violated. It is not against the rules to have an opinion that differs from the Alerter.



 

northernsouthern

(1,511 posts)
108. So you are doubling down?
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 03:04 PM
Apr 2016

You like the idea that our party is the lowest in history? You like that such a small percentage of our party even votes, and you like that they choose the president? You are pro-oligarchy then? Your victim line is very telling, you are ok with people that are homeless or going through any number of hardships that prevents them from being able to register 6 months before an election...let alone show up to vote or mail in. Are you ok with the Caucuses? I have heard many HRC voters talk about his they are not democratic, mail in votes are so important. Just wondering where the hardship bar for you is acceptable? It seems to be oddly aligned with the personal gain of your candidate.
Wow for your pro-oligarchy stance earns you yet another cake point...

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
109. Well ... keep posting more complaints on DU and maybe things will change.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 03:09 PM
Apr 2016

Keep me posted on your progress. Good luck!






Go, Hillary! We love you!




Note to Jury: The above statements represent my opinion. No DU rules or terms of service have been violated. It is not against the rules to have an opinion that differs from the Alerter.

 

northernsouthern

(1,511 posts)
110. I am sure you care.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 03:13 PM
Apr 2016

Just like you care about the youth and lower class walking on to your lawn. There is no excuse for your view other than greed and power. A 6 month wait means young voters will be blocked, people new to the area, people in hardships, people coming back to the system. What if we promised they would vote the way you wanted, would that make it ok?

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
111. No system is perfect, and no party is perfect, and no candidate is perfect. You have to ...
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 03:41 PM
Apr 2016

... work with what you've got and try to make it better.

Or, you can declare that you're "independent" and do nothing except complain online about how you WISH it was different and how "unfair" it is that you can't have your way.

On the bright side, if you honestly believe that griping online is the way to go, then you can take great comfort in the knowledge that with each and every new message you post here, you're just *that much* closer to achieving your goal (of whatever it may be.)

Goodbye.





Go, Hillary! We love you!



Note to Jury: The above statements represent my opinion. No DU rules or terms of service have been violated. It is not against the rules to have an opinion that differs from the Alerter.
 

northernsouthern

(1,511 posts)
112. You know I am responding to your posts for that reason.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 04:33 PM
Apr 2016

That is why I have called and emailed or candidates, and why I have been in this party for years. That is why I will be at the delegate convention here on the weekend. I find the fact that so many HRC supporters love the idea that we are in closed primaries horrible. They are laughing from the other side of the window, but when the house collapses in on them they better hope those on the outside are their to help them. Perhaps your vote will also get rejected and you will suddenly see how unfair it is. Don't worry when that happens we will have your backs because that is what our party was supposed to be about.

 

hellofromreddit

(1,182 posts)
98. Typing FUCKING in all-caps does make your obviously stupid reason into a smart one.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:52 PM
Apr 2016

That's how logic works.

I sure do wish you anti-voter people could offer up better than unsupported assertions, insults, and childish rants.

Maybe then we could have a discussion.

Note to Jury: The above statements represent my opinion/s. No DU rules or terms of service have been violated. It is not against the rules to have an opinion that differs from the Alerter.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
2. Voter suppression is nothing new.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:15 PM
Apr 2016

The GOP loves it and a lot of Democrats enjoy it too. We must have rules to protect the leadership from the people.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
3. A closed primary is not voter suppression
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:16 PM
Apr 2016

If you can't register by a simple and well-publicized date, you weren't suppressed.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
7. If you can't vote, your vote has been suppressed.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:19 PM
Apr 2016

Voting must be free and easy. Anything less is suppression.

brooklynite

(94,728 posts)
13. So the fact that I can't vote in BOTH the Democratic and Republican Primaries is voter suppression?
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:23 PM
Apr 2016

Two separate elections, right?

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
18. "I'm 16, I can't vote! SUPPRESSED!"
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:25 PM
Apr 2016

"I don't live in this state but I can't vote? SUPPRESSED!"
"I'm not a citizen, why can't I vote? SUPPRESSED!"

Life has rules, bro. Join the party of GTFO. Simple as that.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
20. More stupidity, under those conditions, you are not a voter.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:27 PM
Apr 2016

It is simple. You cannot win with a minority, get it?

dogman

(6,073 posts)
24. And that is voter suppression.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:31 PM
Apr 2016

I don't have to go green unless that is my choice. I can walk into the polling place and ask for whatever ballot I choose. Free and easy.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
30. Neither I or the dictionary apparently.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:37 PM
Apr 2016

Use one some time."the action of suppressing something'

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
23. If you want people to GTFO in the primary then they will GTFO out in the general as well
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:30 PM
Apr 2016

You obviously want Democrats to lose the general election if you are telling independents to GTFO because Democrats can not win the general without independents.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
26. When you see a desire to suppress votes, you must ask yourself,
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:34 PM
Apr 2016

what is the motivation here? I know why the GOP loves it.

 

DRI

(24 posts)
51. Party Leadership is Corrupt
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:53 PM
Apr 2016

The leadership of the Democratic and Republican parties are corrupt. They respond to tje oligarchs in Finance, Energy, Technology, Communications and foreign interests. It is we the people that make the difference in our ideas and actions. We the people are what separate the ideas between those who care for others with democratic ideals and those who are afraid of change and live their daily lives in fear of change (Republicans)

Bernie is our only hope for change.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
53. Then you are not a voter in NY by definition.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:56 PM
Apr 2016

You do not have the right to vote there. No matter what you try to read into it, a voter is defined as "a person who votes or has the right to vote at an election."

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
57. and a voter needs to indicate a party preference to vote in a closed primary
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:00 PM
Apr 2016

otherwise, they do not have the right to vote in an election.

Simple. Makes sense.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
54. How about people following well established rules that weren't "suppression" the last 2412423 times?
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:57 PM
Apr 2016

dogman

(6,073 posts)
58. How democratic was it?
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:01 PM
Apr 2016

I know. it's not the democratic Party, it is the Democratic Party. Enjoy the private club, you don't need people.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
69. I don't know, I don't live there.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:08 PM
Apr 2016

I do remember reading prior complaints, but I am simply opining on the OP which does not address those. I am sorry if it offends so many that voting should be free and easy. I knew the GOP has been fighting that concept, just kind of surprised to see so many Democrats advocate against it.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
12. It is voter suppression
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:23 PM
Apr 2016

My state has allowed same day registration for decades, the rest of the country could easily do the same. Requiring people to register months in advance does make it more difficult to vote and anything that makes voting more difficult is a form of voter suppression.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
43. Yes forcing people to walk half a mile is voter suppression as well
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:46 PM
Apr 2016

Minnesota's caucus system does suppress voters, our elections that are run by the state are much better. Even our crappy caucus system allows same day registration however.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
50. Nope, having your name purged is suppression. Having expensive ID requirements is suppression.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:52 PM
Apr 2016

Caucuses that force you to be there for 4-8 hours are suppression.

If you cannot walk the four blocks, you have the opportunity to fill in an absentee ballot. Not the same as actually being denied your vote. It dilutes the significance of real voter suppression- the type Dems have been fighting the GOP about for years- to claim a four block walk is being disenfranchised.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
59. If you are going to claim something is not voter suppression at least get your facts straight
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:01 PM
Apr 2016

Minnesota caucuses do not allow absentee voting so you are 100% wrong when you say people who could not walk a half a mile on an unlit road in the Minnesota winter would not be disenfranchised because they clearly would be.

There is more than one type of voter suppression and as horrible as voter ID is caucuses are an even worse form of voter suppression. There are even more people who are unable to make it to caucuses during that two hour window than there are people who lack proper ID. It is sad to see Democrats supporting a system that disenfranchises even more people than repressive Voter ID laws do.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
70. I agree caucuses suppress the vote- but a four block distance from the polls? Nope.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:09 PM
Apr 2016

The requirement that voters stay for several hours impedes many more low income voters. But I am not seeing lots of complaints about caucuses here- why would that be?

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
74. Probably because you are not paying attention
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:16 PM
Apr 2016

I have seen lots of complaints about the caucus system from across the whole political spectrum. Even though Bernie did well in most of the caucuses most Bernie supporters I know think that caucuses are an archaic system that needs to go away. Most Hillary supporters and even many Republicans feel the same way. The only people I really hear supporting the caucus system are the party insiders and even many of them are now questioning it.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
78. you yourself chose the four block walk to complain about instead of the fact that it was a
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:19 PM
Apr 2016

caucus. Four blocks should be doable, with a slight bit of planning.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
93. You must not have read the entire post
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:34 PM
Apr 2016

The four block walk was only one of the things I complained about, my post made it very clear there was plenty I did not like about the caucus process. You may have chosen to focus on the part in which I noted the horrible parking situation but just because that is the only part you focused on does not mean that was the focus of my entire post.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
8. I said voters, not Democrats.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:20 PM
Apr 2016

Yes the rules have been in place for a log time, so has voter suppression.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
10. In the context of this OP, "voters" in the general sense is irrelevant.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:21 PM
Apr 2016

Go whine elsewhere. We're done here.

nemo137

(3,297 posts)
6. I think part of the problem is people treating this like it's a two-round presidential election
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:18 PM
Apr 2016

Like in France, for example, instead of a series of 50 state-organized party primaries that lead to a general election. If it were a two-round election, it would be an outrage that not all voters could chose a specific candidate in every state. As it is, it's an ass-ache and another example of the weaknesses of the federal system, but not the terrifying exercise in voter suppression that some posts here are implying.

nemo137

(3,297 posts)
82. In the case of people registered to a third party not being able to vote in a closed Dem primary?
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:23 PM
Apr 2016

That's an entirely separate issue.

Voter ID laws, R secretaries of state messing with polling times and locations, felon disenfranchisement and the like are huge issues that everyone should be concerned with, and Democrats especially. The fact that this hasn't been a tail-on-fire priority for the national Democratic party is going to come back and bite them in the ass (and the fact that neither campaign cared until their ox got gored is a mark against both HRC and BS).

The fact that we have 50 states with 50 state parties deciding how their primaries/caucuses are going to be conducted isn't even in the same ballpark. The fact that our electoral system works in such a way as to almost certainly reduce the number of parties down to 2 (because everything is done first-past-the-post, single member district) is another issue, but it's not even playing the same sport as voter suppression or the shitshow that is state election planning.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
91. I haven't seen mention of a third party, so yes it is seperate.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:32 PM
Apr 2016

Yes, each of the states, territories, etc. make their own rules. Some make it really easy. You walk in to a polling place and you vote. Others restrict voting through arbitrary rules designed by the people in power to stay in power. My preference is the former. You would think that Democrats would tend to support democracy.

nemo137

(3,297 posts)
103. The OP was about WFP members and independents not being able to vote in a Dem primary next week.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 02:11 PM
Apr 2016

I went back and re-read it after seeing your post, to make sure I hadn't misread it. I think we have a basic disagreement about what the purpose of a primary election is. I think it should be more restrictive than the general election - the primary is about choosing the candidate that best represents your party (who you want to offer to your fellow citizens as a potential representative), the general is about who ought to actually run the country. Calling that "voter suppression" is hyperbolic.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
89. I agree. Close them all in all 50 states
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:28 PM
Apr 2016

Since it is a private party function though, you pay for it...no, you do not get to vote the same day as the regularly scheduled election...nope, you decouple. Or for that matter use any, and I mean this, any state resources. You want precincts, go rent them. You want machines, go rent them. You want somebody to administer the election...there are companies that specialize in it.

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
9. It's time to come out of the dark ages and have open primaries nationwide.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:21 PM
Apr 2016

Not caucuses, not closed primaries.

Let's actually get a chance at choosing the two best CANDIDATES, instead of the two candidates the establishment decides it wants.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
41. that's a rightwing talking point.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:43 PM
Apr 2016

the point of voter ID laws is to prevent racial minorities, poor people, and young people from voting.

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
73. I know that.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:12 PM
Apr 2016

But the justification they use has the same grounding in reality as the "but THEY will vote for our weakest candidate to try and sabotage us"

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
76. Closed primaries are more important to smaller parties
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:17 PM
Apr 2016

here than to Democrats--all other parties are spread so thin (including the Republicans in many places) that the Democrats could game their primaries or conventions by last-minute switches and hijacking the party.

for the Republicans, for example, it would only take a few hundred voters in a few key districts for Democrats to significantly change their delegate counts, and it could be done very easily by the local party machine.

at the same time, people who are openly hostile to the Democratic party--not losing any sleep over them not getting to pick our leadership.

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
80. Oh please...
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:21 PM
Apr 2016

If ANYONE wanted to do that it could easily be done by switching registration for a time. If it would only take a few hundred votes in key districts.. why aren't they doing it?

Reality is that it is as frequent and significant as in person voter fraud. IT technically CAN happen, but it usually doesn't and even when it does the impact is so minute that it doesn't have any actual effect on the outcome.

Closed primaries are archaic rituals that need to be abolished. Let's get the two best candidates, instead of the 2 worst.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
84. because that way they can't wait until the last minute and decide
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:25 PM
Apr 2016

to vote strategically.

if you're a Democrat and want to pick the Democratic nominee for President, register Democratic.

If you align yourself with the Working Families Party and want to help pick their leadership, register with them.

If you're a Republican and you want to pick the Republican nominee, register as a Republican.

New York's early deadline for switching should probably be moved up, I will agree on that.

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
99. In years like this the claim is nonsense...
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:57 PM
Apr 2016

Since each party has their OWN primary to worry about.

In "off years" where there is an incumbent, there is plenty of time to change if someone wants to play this game.. but reality is, it just doesn't happen.

The whole "shenanigans" concept just doesn't hold any water.

100% Open Primaries for ALL parties. Just let the people vote instead of suppressing their votes.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
90. Rare as hell. Up there with actual voter fraud
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:30 PM
Apr 2016

Incidentally same talking point as to why we need ID laws.

 

hellofromreddit

(1,182 posts)
97. You really should worry more about people from your own side voting for the weakest candidate
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:44 PM
Apr 2016

It happens way more often.

Arkansas Granny

(31,530 posts)
52. No, thank you. I don't want Republicans choosing Democratic candidates.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:55 PM
Apr 2016

We have open primaries in Arkansas. When I went to vote, I was asked if I wanted a Republican ballot or a Democratic ballot. I could have asked for the Republican ballot and voted for the weakest possible person on the ticket. Do you remember when Limbaugh and others advocated this tactic in 2008?

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
81. So you don't want to see the two best candidates?
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:22 PM
Apr 2016

You just want to suppress the vote as much as possible.

Got it.

Arkansas Granny

(31,530 posts)
86. How is choosing a party when you register to vote suppressing the vote.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:25 PM
Apr 2016

You can change your party affiliation if you please. You just have to abide by the rules of the state in which you vote. I believe those rules have been in force for many years. It's up to the voter to educate themselves so they can participate.

MineralMan

(146,331 posts)
28. This primary election is part of choosing the DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:35 PM
Apr 2016

nominee for President. In New York, like some other states, only DEMOCRATIC voters by registration get to participate in the primary election. I can't say I have any problem with that. It is a party thing. People who want a voice in choosing the Democratic Party's nominee should register as Democrats. Pretty simple, really.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
37. It would be simple if you had a time machine.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:41 PM
Apr 2016

Requiring registration 6 months early is the establishment protecting their turf.

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
39. And a lot of democrats and Independents won't vote for Clinton in the GE.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:43 PM
Apr 2016
So she gets the primary and we get Trump in the GE. Sad but it is what it is. People don't trust her, people don't like her.

apnu

(8,758 posts)
56. This is about GROUND GAME and Bernie's campaign screwed this one up.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:58 PM
Apr 2016

Bernie's the outsider invading the Democratic party. I have no problem with that, we could do with more full throat roaring progressives in the party, but by coming over here, he's accepting the rules the party has on hand.

That means having a plan for the closed primary states. I love you Bernie, but clearly you didn't have a plan for that.

Sure he started way outside as a joke, to everybody but those on left's left. And it is still very surprising he's gotten this far and maybe there wasn't time to rally left leaning independents to join the Democratic Party last fall. But these are the rules that New York has and that's that. Its not like New Yorkers are in the dark about this. Anybody looking up now saying "what the hell" about New York's primary system has been not paying attention.

When I lived in New York in the 1990s, we all knew we had to join a party long in advance of primary day. If we slackers could get it and do it, anybody can.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
66. This suggests that Hillary could very well outperform the latest polls.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:05 PM
Apr 2016

I suspect many who were surveyed thought they could vote in the Dem primary even though they will find out they cant when they arrive a the polling station.

 

IamMab

(1,359 posts)
72. The soundtrack for the Sanders campaign is the 'Price is Right' fail noise, at this point.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 01:12 PM
Apr 2016

Bump-bump-ba-dum... Whaaaa!

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
102. yes we know limiting voter participation works for Clinton
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 02:02 PM
Apr 2016

IMO it's strange for Democrats to be so proud of this

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