I hope HRC supporters accept this advice in the spirit it is being given….

[blm]

I am not one of the knee-jerk Sanders supporters who is seeing evil in everything you say and do, so, let's establish that fact from the outset.

On this trip to the Vatican, please try to temper some of the attacks being posted ridiculing the trip and Sanders. If there was no primary battle going on right now, most every one of you would be expressing pride that Sen. Sanders was making this trip, and, pleased that he is speaking to issues of poverty that matter to the Democratic party.

Of course, this advice is directed at MOST of you in order to curb what SOME are doing when they post these attacks.

Some of us here from TeamSanders have been bending over backwards to be mindful that many of you share our commitment to defeating GOP in November, whoever the nominee is at the end of the process. We can disagree on that for now, but, this trip is NOT something we SHOULD disagree over in the hopes of scoring disingenuous political points. HRC and BS aren't using this trip to hammer each other, why would we?

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[Else You Are Mad]

1. Well said. Thank you for posting this. nt

[IdaBriggs]

2. Agreed. nt

[tex-wyo-dem]

3. Thanks, blm...well said. Nt

[mythology]

4. The trip is a good thing.

I get that it's silly season among supporters, but making fun of this conference is sad.

[thucythucy]

5. K & R

There are some things we should all agree on, no matter how divided we are on others.

Thanks for this OP.

[EndElectoral]

6. K&R

[Adrahil]

7. I don't have an issue with his trip.

My issues with Sanders have nothing to do with this trip. I basically agree with Sanders in basic philosophy. My issue are with his policies and campaign.

[blm]

10. And that is fine. This post is only about THIS Vatican trip and how some are using it

in ways that are demeaning to both sides. And I truly mean BOTH sides should not be using a Vatican conference to take cheap shots at each other.

That is my only point being made in the OP.

[Adrahil]

11. I appreciate that. No problem with the trip. NT

[blm]

25. Grazie.

.

[Arkansas Granny]

8. I haven't noticed that many negative posts about his trip and looking through the front page

comes up with one mildly negative post in the religion group. There were some posts when it was first announced, but it doesn't seem to be such a big deal now.

[artyteacher]

9. im not catholic...

And I think most organized religion has a lot of negatives. Why be proud some politician speaks at the Vatican?

[blm]

14. Heh…I'm an atheist since 94, and pleased that the conference is addressing

issues of poverty and that Sen. Sanders is attending the conference. Simple for me. People can view it as they wish. I am just asking for civility from those whose first thought is to trash it.

I suspect Sanders is as much of an atheist as I am, yet still understands the value of appealing to those who do believe who can make a lasting difference.

[lagomorph777]

37. Lifelong atheist here, but I share the belief that the economy demonstrates morality

or the lack thereof in a society.

[blm]

38. yep….

.

[SpareribSP]

58. It's hard to dislike Pope Francis...

Church history aside, the guy himself has a good agenda of uplifting the poor and helping combat climate change. He's easy to be a fan of, Catholic, Jewish, Atheist, whatever. I'm not catholic myself, but this whole thing was nothing but smiles from me.

[Armstead]

12. Well said

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. The senator should be proud to have a supporter like you.

That being said if someone attacks someone I like I will attack someone they like. As Sista Souljah said "two wrongs don't make a right but they damn sure make us even."

[Bluenorthwest]

16. “An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind” is frequently attributed to M. K. Gandhi.

I go with the Mahatma on that one. My principles are my own and not dictated by the actions of others.

[Onlooker]

15. But, honestly, there are many reasons to disagree with this trip ...

...

While Pope Francis is better than his last two (or more) predecessors, the Church is still an extremely sexist and homophobic institution.

One common complaint about Bernie is that he is too preachy, and there have been threads in this forum and others that suggest he's walking in the path of Jesus. The religious overtones to his campaign are dangerous.

I like Bernie, I voted for him (though am now rooting for Hillary), but I don't support this trip because the problem I have with him has always been his supporters, and my goodness I bet we will see some pretty outrageous posts from some Bernie supporters as a result of this trip.

Religion and politics should not be connected. That's a lesson that the left should have learned a long time ago, when the Clintons were doing battle with the religious right.

[mhatrw]

46. Yes, the Church is sexist, homophobic, and even pedophilic.

But when it comes to income inequality, the world needs to hear the Gospels of Francis and Bernie loud and clear before it is too late.

Wouldn't you agree?

[asuhornets]

17. Yea, right

As much as Bernie supporters insult Hillary about everything, you want Hillary supporters to be nice and happy for him he went to Vatican City. Whatever. His supporters should be upset with him because he is always requesting more debates and then fail to deliver. She won the debate. Does he smile? Geez.

[Trenzalore]

42. They do live in a world of double standards

It is an obvious political stunt to appeal to North Eastern Catholics. When that is stated it is like you killed a baby seal for implying Senator Sanders would do something cravenly political.

[asuhornets]

43. Exactly...n/t

[mhatrw]

47. Could it be that Sanders actually truly admires the most admirable thing about the Catholic Church?

You know, liberation theology.

Might that just be possible outside the cynical constraints of Hillarian world view?

[Trenzalore]

57. I know this is shocking

Bernie Sanders is a politician. A rather successful one in Vermont and in the middle of a primary campaign he is making political decisions.

[NCTraveler]

18. "If there was no primary battle going on right now," Sanders would not be there.

This was politicized initially by Sanders himself.

That being said, I have no problem with him campaigning in Rome.

[Bobbie Jo]

19. Yes, you've been even-handed and fair

and that hasn't gone unnoticed.

My cynicism is getting in the way of being proud of this stunt. If there were no primary battle right now, I sincerely believe he wouldn't be going at all. This looks very much like a political move that didn't quite pan out as planned.

Perhaps if he hadn't misrepresented this event on national television I would feel differently.

Thanks for the civil post. I'm giving you a rec, just because...

[blm]

20. In realm of possibility, it could also be that he didn't think he'd be in the race still

at the point when he first considered attending the conference. In my own ode to cynicism I think Weaver and Devine are ramping up the harsh tone of opposition now because they weren't fully planned for the long run as they have claimed and they made some serious mistakes contributing to that article last month that cast them in the post-mortem role.

See, there are all sorts of things people can THINK, and the actual truth is something we may learn later.

Thanks for trying to see both sides.

[seaglass]

21. Hmmm I am an ex-Catholic and have zero respect for the Catholic Church.

I disagree, I don't feel any pride about someone speaking at a Vatican conference. Joe Biden is speaking at a conference at the Vatican 4/28 - I don't think it will make much of a blip on DU. Biden has met with the Pope on other occasions and I don't remember it being a big deal.

The only issue I ever had was the lies about what led to Sander's attendance - the Pope invited him, the Pope endorsed him or the Pope was meeting with him - as if the Pope had singled Bernie out for this "honor." It was political because we are in the middle of a primary.

[blm]

22. Which is why I specified 'most' and would not expect everyone to see themselves in my post.

And, I say that as an ex-catholic, currently a 22yr atheist.

[mhatrw]

48. OK, I am an ex-Catholic and I have zero respect for an ex-Catholic who has zero respect for

the Catholic Church.

Look up "liberation theology". Then get back to me about your ZERO respect.

[seaglass]

59. I don't care. n/t

[one_voice]

23. I'm undecided..

at this point. I like both the candidates.

I've read many of your posts and think you're very fair and even handed. I don't remember ever seeing you mean or snarky.

I have no problem with Sanders taking this trip. I wouldn't have a problem with Hillary doing it if she had the opportunity.

On the other hand I have no problem with Hillary raising money tonight for other Democrats tonight. Money ain't gonna grow on trees. And whichever one of these guys gets is in the WH they're gonna need a Congress/Senate that works with them not against them.

We need to elect Democrats. We need money to do that. Just my opinion.

K&R!

[blm]

24. I'm a GOTV activist, and agree 100% about Dem party needing that money for efforts

in November.

I live in a purple state where every single vote is crucial.

[LisaM]

26. Let me ask you this, then....

Have you ever seriously heard of this group or this conference before this? It's patently obvious that Jeffrey Sachs, tapped to advise Bernie, has been involved in this conference for a number of years, easily learned by reading past event descriptions, and that he came up with this whole idea. It attracts about 30 people. I don't know of any tangible effect it's had on anything.

This is not to say that it's not a perfectly fine event. It may be. But for Bernie Sanders to go around on the talk shows and present it as a personal invitation from the Holy See - which you cannot deny he did - and as a potential meeting with the Pope, was serious bluster. As a Catholic, I'm actually offended by it.

[blm]

28. This post is only asking to temper the worst actors. It does acknowledge

that the political jockeying on the trip is occurring on both sides and I submit that it shouldn't be. This is one matter where most of us can and should just Let It Be.

It really is as simple as that.

For those offended based on your beliefs, this post is surely not requesting you stay silent. By all means, express yourself freely that the majority here can better grasp why you feel as you do.

[LisaM]

33. In other words, no one really knew about this conference.

I do take umbrage at the fact that a candidate who's openly said he was nauseated by our only Catholic President is now trying to make hay with a Vatican visit (where he mixed up two Popes). That should give pause to even the most serious Sanders supporter. It won't.

Look, I don't think Hillary Clinton is perfect. Nevertheless, I like her very much, I want her to win this race, and I understand that anyone who's been on the political scene for as long as both she and Bernie Sanders have will have their wins and losses, their ups and downs, their good and their bad. It comes with the territory. But this whole episode leaves me wondering even more than I already do about Bernie Sanders' judgment.

And for a secular candidate, one who's admitted that he's probably an atheist (I don't have a problem with that) to go to the Holy See and act as if he's personally schooling the Vatican on moral issues is extremely offensive. Every time I see one of these posts about Bernie and the Pope, I cringe. The Vatican didn't invite him. The Pope didn't invite him. No meeting was ever scheduled. No handwritten note came from the Pope addressed to Bernie Sanders personally. And for the people who go on social media claiming that the Pope has endorsed Sanders, get over it. The Pope does not involve himself in American elections.

This conference will go on again in 2017 and I for one have a calendar note to myself to see if the people so excited about it this year are all over it again next year. If it's such an important conference, let's see if he goes back If not, I'll write it off as nothing more than a photo op.

[blm]

34. Perfectly understood.

And, thank you. Hopefully others will read it and understand your point of view comes from a genuine place.

[LisaM]

35. I appreciate that, I really do.

I'm just glad the whole stupid thing is over with. I also may try to catch what the Pope does in Lesbos; that should be an interesting trip.

[Nonhlanhla]

36. I completely agree with you. nt.

[mhatrw]

49. Are you fucking kidding me? Two heads of South American countries are there!

How fucking parochial can anyone be to demean such a gathering?

[lunamagica]

27. Good post. But it is hard when so many of SBS supporters keep posting as if this trip

is a slap to Clinton's face.

Posts like "The Pope delivered a handwritten note to Bernie. Where is Hillary's note" and many other written in the same vain don't conduce to any civil discourse about the trip.

[blm]

29. Yes, and I think bad actors in both camps make it more difficult

to have this common ground.

But, then, my cynicism makes me extra wary and I suspect that this board has been overrun with GOP operatives who also have no interest in both sides showing greater tolerance for each other's viewpoints.

[lunamagica]

32. I hope you are right, and the crazines ends once the primaries are over

[mhatrw]

50. I agree with that. It's bizarre to pretend that this is some sort of special papal prize.

But it is even more bizarre to try to tear down what it actually is since it clearly is not some sort of special papal prize.

[shanti]

30. kicking n/t

[KoKo]

31. Recommend...!

Thanks, blm.

[msanthrope]

39. I would not be expressing pride. Sorry....But speaking of poverty in the middle of a

rich theocracy that still hasn't paid off the victims of their oppression is disgusting. Taking 10 relatives to Rome for a 10 minute speech?

Look....this was a cheap political stunt. It has backfired, badly. Watching Sanders's supporters try to make this into something anti-HRC?

I went to a debate party, and I have to tell you.....the "whore" comment has alienated the Democratic female base in a way I really can't describe. There was, for the first time, a consensus of women who declared that yeah.....they'd vote for him if they had to, but they wouldn't work for him. In 2008, we all gladly went to work for BHO. He didn't alienate us.

[blm]

40. I'm trying to curb the rancor here, ms….

I am hoping both sides choose to temper their worst actors here at DU. I don't believe the worst of them are Dems.

[msanthrope]

41. I understand. But I've got to tell you.....the "whore"

comment, and how it was handled here, and in other social media places has produced a sea change. The debate party I went to was all NY dems....mostly female. I've never seen anything like what was expressed there.

[blm]

45. Social media this primary cycle has been worse than I've ever seen before. I'm horrified daily

by some posting as Sanders supporters as they take shot after shot at the entire Dem party and urge people to NOT VOTE AT ALL if Sanders isn't the nominee. I just don't believe many of those are real democrats or progressives. They come off as GOP operatives to me….like seventhson and his gang. NONE of my fellow Sanders supporters here in NC talk like any of these posers.

[mhatrw]

53. Ya think?

[mhatrw]

52. Thank God that the most important political decisions are made based on the word choice of

a random Sanders supporter. That bodes well for our democracy.

"Colored People Time" is fine. But white women all draw the line at "corporate whores"?

"Colored People Time" was just a painfully, painfully bad attempted joke. Sure, it was presumptuously demeaning to black people because it is a term generally reserved for black people to tease themselves. However, the true affront was to comedy, which is still smarting from the blow as an artistic form.

"Corporate whores" is perhaps an unfortunate choice of words. In retrospect, "corporate gigolos" would have been a far better choice.

The fact that we are still discussing this failed joke and this poor word choice of a random Sanders' supporter in the context of US presidential politics just shows us what we as Americans have been conditioned by the corporate media to respond most strongly to.

Muskie's tears

Carter's rabbit

Dukakis' tank

Poppy's throwing up

Dean's scream

Sarah Palin

Donald Trump

When will we finally realize that when we respond most strongly to this meaningless nonsense rather than to the issues that matter most to us that we are all being played like fiddles?

[Lazy Daisy]

44. Alienated the Democratic female base?

Didn't know I was alienated by that remark. Thanks for letting me know.

[Kittycat]

55. News to me as well.

but I also understood the full meaning of what was being stated.

[mhatrw]

51. LOL. So Paul Song (whoever he is) made every woman you know hate Bernie Sanders?

And Sanders going to papal conference concerned with the very issue he has spent his entire public service career fighting for just has to a "cheap political stunt"?

There is no other possible interpretation?

[still_one]

54. your assessment is pretty accurate. Thanks for the perspective

[radical noodle]

56. I am a vocal supporter of Hillary

and I personally am glad he went to this conference. Do I think it had at least some political motivation? Sure, but what doesn't in a campaign? I think his having less time to campaign in New York would certainly be my choice for what he's doing.

On the other hand, I would bet that we'd see plenty of nasty comments about anything Hillary does. anywhere she goes. This is what disturbs me about the calls to "be nice to Bernie." Let's be nice to both candidates. Until Bernie supporters stop calling her a liar, a shill, a corporate w****, and other even worse things I don't expect most Hillary supporters to react nicely to things he does.

As Democrats we need to be more even handed, but from what I've seen there are a lot of folks here who post regularly who aren't even close to being Democrats.

I admire your attitude, blm. I hope to see more of this directed at the other side.

[blm]

60. Heh - some of the Sanders group thinkers already labeled me a troll.

Why? Because I don't like when they exaggerate in order to get their hate on. To me, that is not political discourse, and it is not helpful in the primary election cycle, not helpful to the general election, and not helpful to this nation, not in the least.

I don't think either side posting arguments or attacks based in lies or exaggerations is serving the nation in the precious role of CITIZEN.