2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders didn't do it tonight. He really needed to hit it out of the park, instead
just offered more loud, empty promises. Hillary looked like the smart, calm, thoughtful, and compassionate one. I'm glad she got the last word.
Now onto the primary!!
elleng
(131,102 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Response to elleng (Reply #1)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)LOL. Cute.
Karmadillo
(9,253 posts)chillfactor
(7,584 posts)she did herself proud.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)proud - lol
840high
(17,196 posts)berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)gabeana
(3,166 posts)with that ridiculous op
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)to indicate my affiliation with socialist thought. Then I came head to head with the aggressive Sanders supporters, and was almost immediately turned off. Revolution is one thing, violent, close-minded mutiny is another.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)that when I looked into it, I would see what they were seeing. But I'm glad you know what was going on in my mind...are you available to write a soc paper tonight?
gabeana
(3,166 posts)I am a History professor but my office mate is a Soc Prof.She is excellent and a Bernie supporter
maybe I can put a good word in for you
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)A little dry, but I'm trying to link it to the elections!
gabeana
(3,166 posts)sounds interesting I will ask her tomorrow
what part of the country you in
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)How did you seek out and find her?
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)Seriously, if you like a candidate, their supporters actions are irrelevant.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Bullshit.
Marr
(20,317 posts)It's never convincing.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)Nothing but platitudes and non answers . I was really hoping to hear something concrete from her tonight, it didn't happen and it never will.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)especially re: the speech transcripts early on - it was just awkward.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)rachacha
(173 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)She'll be an angry, abrasive champion for more war.
That's what's so terrifying.
She won't have Obama standing in her way and preventing her from making even more rash, horrible decisions that will probably take us to war in Syria and Iran.
Scary stuff.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Badly.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Thanks for your unbiased opinion.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)We surrender!
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)Sorry but i'll take the guy who isn't a liar
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)neverforget
(9,436 posts)News at 11.
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)I think they both restated their positions we all know about, and solidified their own supporters, but I don't see anyone see anyone deciding to vote for him based on tonight.
Remember, she is leading in the polls, so it was up to him to mix things up. It didn't happen.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)He came off as petty and doddering. Nothing but platitudes and bumper sticker-speak.
I was really hoping to hear something concrete from him tonight, it didn't happen.
w4rma
(31,700 posts)http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/276397-clinton-refuses-to-budge-on-releasing-speech-transcripts
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/276401-clinton-would-sign-law-creating-15-minimum-wage
yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)edgineered
(2,101 posts)to make her closing statements until the debate organizers were able to quell the chants of Bernie! Bernie! Bernie!
Good catch on your part.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)I don't know how she'll make it.
Did you see how she needed to practically be physically held up while shaking hands at the edge of the stage?
renate
(13,776 posts)I just saw MSNBC's little snippets and I have to admit that it didn't look like Bernie was doing all that great. So I'm curious--is that MSNBC and it was actually more balanced in real life? Because they seemed to pick clips that made her look good and Bernie look, frankly, grumpy.
I want to reiterate that I didn't watch the actual debate and am just curious about MSNBC's editing style. However Bernie did in the debate, I'm not changing my mind for the primary and would vote for either of them in the general.
DemocracyDirect
(708 posts)The MSM is all about keeping the status quo.
Hillary is their girl.
CNN is also doing their best to paint it as a tie.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)was hinting Hillary had done for corporate money, and he really had no good answer.
He fought better on the anti war stuff, she was mazing when she brought up how no one asked a single question about reproductive rights. (Biggest applause of the night!) She held her own on Wall ST, but the audience liked his populist proposals very much too.
I think it was a wash. He came off a little too snarly, she too serious and dour.
renate
(13,776 posts)I appreciate it!
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Just remember her constant stupid smiles. . . .those were telling.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)How did he win all those coin tosses? OMG, must be a conspiracy!
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I think that's knocking it out of the park.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Arizona Roadrunner
(168 posts)My wife's observation was that Clinton came across as a "nagging wife". or a "scolding nag".
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)for the person you want to have a beer with instead?
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)I guess she's perfect. I turned channel to Project Runway.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)...through our own filtered lens.
TM99
(8,352 posts)because no one in the right mind would ever call Hillary Clinton compassionate. This is the woman who called minority kids superpredators that need to be brought to heel. This is the woman who laughed after gleefully clapping her little hands and saying we came, we saw, he died.
Medicare for all is off the table but she is the compassionate one?
Fuck me. Forget sociology, become a comedian. You have a better future there.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)azmom
(5,208 posts)the meaning of the word.
840high
(17,196 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)I mean, admittedly, I'm biased, but I thought she came off as rude, angry, and very smug.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...on the issues. But I'm a Sanders supporter and it's difficult to know what others are thinking--Clinton supporters, voters who haven't made up their minds, voters looking for info, general public, and you, for instance. What do you mean by "Sanders didn't do it"? I don't know what you mean. That's a vague, very personal statement. And if you really think that Clinton came across as "compassionate," we probably don't have enough in common to ever agree on this.
I thought there were 5 or 6 instances when Sanders "hit it out of the park" on major issues--corrupt campaign contribution system, paid speeches to Wall Street, Iraq War, Israel, cost of college and student debt, and more--and other instances when he backed Clinton into a corner that revealed her waffling or weak positions (for a Democrat) on important issues (Social Security, health care, blaming Obama for Libya rather than owning it, releasing the Goldman Sachs transcripts, blaming Vermont for the guns in New York and others).
I don't think she responded well to being backed into a corner. And her inappropriate laughs and rather glaring smile and eyes (not friendly), her smug ("I'm the queen here" looks and stiff turns of head, and her abrasive voice--her voice more than anything--will turn a lot of people off. They turned me off. And her frequent running over time made her voice even more annoying.
But I admit I wasn't rooting for her. I think she's part of the 1%, a liar, very corrupt, a wearer masks (depending on who she's talking to) and a war hawk who is responsible for terrible suffering in Honduras, Iraq, Libya and Syria, on top of the suffering she's helped cause her to the poor, the unemployed and the imprisoned. I have no doubt about these judgements--I think the evidence is overwhelming--and I held these views before the debate even began.
As to presentation, I think Sanders did well, but did not "hit it out of the park" on voice, speech and ambience. He has a voice problem, too (but not nearly as bad as Clinton's problem). He projected the honesty and integrity that he is well known for. He stumbled over some words. He didn't give as good an answer on some questions as he could have. (The facts were on his side, too, on these missed opportunities.) But overall, he was very sharp and quick on most of the issues and controversies, and nailed her repeatedly.
I WAS, of course, rooting for him.
I do think that using a criterion like "did he hit it out of the park?" or "who 'won' the debate?" are not complex enough questions with which to analyze such a complex debate. I think Sanders succeeded in marking out their sharp differences and making the point that she changes with the wind on many issues and is unforthcoming on others.
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)I sort of thought he did quite well.
I particularly liked his closing statement...it was inspiring.
-Paige