"Democracy" at work

[Rebkeh]

How is it that the leading candidates in both parties are distrusted, disliked, and even hated, by the majority of the nation?

It doesn't get any clearer - the system is rigged.

[Agschmid]

1. Remember America was founded on distrust of government.

We've been doing it for 200+ years.

[Rebkeh]

6. Yep. We still haven't learned a damn thing either

Hence the title --- "Democracy"

We have a chance now, 200 years later, to get it right. But we keep doing what we've always done expecting different results.

You illustrated my point beautifully, thank you.

[Agschmid]

7. We have no idea what the "right" decision is.

It's disengenious to say we do.

Unless we are re-electing a sitting president (which we aren't) we really when it comes down to it have no idea what to expect.

It's all an educated guess.

[Rebkeh]

12. I didn't say 'right'

I implied 'best' and since equality and justice are the common goals on one side, so they say, there is a clear answer to what the people want. The question is who... also clear which is best.

The leaders within the system don't want change, the people do. The only reason the front runners are in front is because the people of the system want them to be. Optics are not reality.

It's so obviously rigged, at this point it's selective ignorance to believe otherwise.

[Agschmid]

13. There is a clear answer to who the people want and right now she is in the lead.

[Rebkeh]

17. No, it's not clear at all

Who the people want, and who's in the lead are not necessarily always going to be the same person, regardless of who it is. That's the reality.

To go one further, why create the superdelegate process to begin with?

[Agschmid]

20. I'm not counting supers at all, I don't like that part of the system.

[Rebkeh]

24. It is undemocratic

As is this idea of who the (highly disliked) front runners are, Democrat and Republican alike.

It's rigged. There's no better evidence than superdelegates and the current front runners.. This is all I'm saying.

Vote for whoever you want, I honor everyone's choice, but let's at least be honest.

[Agschmid]

25. Okay let's be honest.

Her lead has very little to do with the super delegates.

[Rebkeh]

28. I'm not saying it does

I'm saying it's a pretty good indication that this is a "democracy."

It's a clear pattern across the board, regardless of who is running.

[Nye Bevan]

2. Didn't much of the nation dislike or even hate Abraham Lincoln?

This is not a new phenomenon.

[Agschmid]

3. Yup.

[pdsimdars]

11. Good old "honest" Hillary Clinton. Sounds good .

[Kip Humphrey]

4. all but one.

[Hortensis]

5. I do not believe your view reflects reality.

I do, unfortunately, suspect a person holding that belief would not fight to save democracy. After all, it's already gone, right? Need to join those attacking what is in place now?

[Mika]

8. A person holding that belief is likely to fight to establish democracy.

Aside from that, democracy is an illusion unless we have democratic workplaces and a democratic economic system.

At this point, we have neither.

Both are things to work and fight for.

[Hortensis]

19. So, the idea would be we don't have democracy now

and we have to work and fight to establish a new democracy -- I'm guessing after destroying the current system that's in its way. Do I have that correct?

[Mika]

21. No you don't.

Last edited Tue Apr 12, 2016, 01:33 PM - Edit history (1)

It is about transition, not destruction. Hurtles can be surmounted, not flattened and destroyed. Then, we move beyond the old and not-so-fair failed systems.

[Hortensis]

22. Now I'm confused. Not to be at all

insulting, but that sounds just like what your typical HRC liberal progressive Democrats intend to accomplish. I could have said it myself, and actually have many times in various ways. What's the difference?

[Mika]

23. HRC progressives say some of the right things, but, as we know...

... never seems to get done.

I support a democratic co-operative workplace and democratic co-operative economic model.

I shouldn't go much farther in my commentary, I don't want to violate DU's TOS.

[Hortensis]

32. Wow, a thought-sparking answer. :)

I wish you did go further, as a cooperative economic model for a nation the size of ours is not one I really know anything about.

As for "never seems to get done," I'd say the past does not predict the future. Many ideas have not seen their times come. I revere democracy but recognize that a democracy of 300 million people is going to be extremely imperfect, and I'm not dismayed that it is not. But we have gone way too far astray, and I believe that we are at a major potential turning point. One at which we could make tragically destructive mistakes or set ourselves on the route to a new golden age.

As for cooperative economics, I also want a mix that has at its base a sustainable, stable service of the people to maintain a framework in which hundreds of millions of people are free to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Not asking much, right? In addition to that serving framework, though, I would also like to see many economic models open, including retention of the energy of self interest, because I feel it would be a grave mistake to eliminate it. We do need to keep it under control.

How interesting phenomena of such things as the "Panama papers" and global democratization and other information availability are. The world may be getting smaller and less free for the business locusts swarming over it even more quickly than they initially grabbed control, while for others unprecedented prosperity may be becoming more possible.

[Mika]

33. Capitalism is not a democratic process.

Its a mistake to conflate capitalism with democracy - as is reenforced with rigorous repetition in western capitalist nations. Just as it is a mistake to conflate socialism, communism, Marxism as undemocratic. Most all modern nations are mixed economies, with varying degrees of democracy within.

If we spend the majority of our lives at work, working in undemocratic top-down institutions, and said undemocratic institutions use their wealth to stifle freedoms and transfer ever more of the wealth generated by labor to the owners of capital, then, we aren't living democratically.
Democratic cooperative economics is a way to retain of the energy of self interest. As we have it now, that energy is sapped by rapacious competition that favors fast results/profits over long term solutions that benefit the community, rendering the self interest of the community as moot by the undemocratic decisions made by ownership/capital.


Gotta run. Work to be done. Cheers.

[FlatBaroque]

9. How is it that 99% of the people of the world want no wars

but all we have is endless war?

[geek tragedy]

10. "Waah waah waah my candidate is losing, the system must be rigged."

[Rebkeh]

14. Go see what's going on in DC at this very moment nt

[geek tragedy]

15. you mean this?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/watch-obama-to-designate-national-monument-to-honor-womens-equality-at-1125-a-m-edt/

[Rebkeh]

18. No, I meant what the people are doing and saying

Not the system. You reveal yourself, thank you.

But you knew what I meant and you know it.

Have a nice day.

[CorkySt.Clair]

27. Those cranks getting arrested?

Not exactly uncharted territory is it?

[Rebkeh]

30. It's a very clear indication of what the people actually want

And the system isn't responding. Therefore...

"Democracy"

[LexVegas]

16. Sanders unfavorable is in the 40s. nt

[Romulox]

26. The Money Men will get their way, irrespective of what the American people like. nt

[Ferd Berfel]

29. Point Rebkeh

[mythology]

31. How exactly is it rigged?

Are you claiming that the vote counting machine are reporting invalid totals?

It's entirely possible that in a country where the parties have roughly equally sized support and the parties are increasingly polarized, that it would be the expected result that the probable nominees would be viewed harshly by half or more of the country when you count the other party and those left feeling disaffected by the primary.

Politics has become a blood sport, particularly as more middle of the road politicians have been voted out. People here calling Republicans rethugs or repukes. Or Bernie Bros. Or Camp Weathervane. Or Republicans saying Obama is Kenyan or Muslim.