"Shell corporations" - the truth is buried.

[LAS14]

More baseless innuendo from the Sanders camp. There's plenty of good solid info to refute it, but you have to plough through so many ignorant (i.e., lacking information) BS posts many may not see them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511710586#post20

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511710586#post25

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511710586#post37

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511710586#post39

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511710586#post73

[DemocracyDirect]

1. Tax Planning Is Legal But Border On Immoral

But it's hard to believe that people who use such strategies so effectively, will clamp down on them.

[COLGATE4]

2. The last thing I knew tax planning is not onlyq

legal but actually encouraged - by the government that makes the laws that permit it. There's nothing moral or immoral about it, any more than any other totally legal action you take.

[DemocracyDirect]

3. And That's Exactly The Point

It's encouraged and even celebrated to pay as little tax as possible for the "winners".

So why not send some of that speech money to your international foundation that pays you management fees and all your travel expenses as you jet-set around the world to solicit more donations to your international foundation?

It's all legal and perfectly moral and very convenient using a Delaware LLC corporate shell.

Most of us get a paycheck with deductions already taken off the top.

[COLGATE4]

4. It sucks to be a wage earner. I get it. I have been one.

But that's precisely why the law encourages Foundations, like the Clinton Foundation. Her use of her own money neither takes money away from me nor gives me any money. Resenting her making more than we do isn't a productive activity.

[DemocracyDirect]

5. You don't understand.

Actually I am head of a multinational IT services company.

The point is that some people use these laws/loopholes for good. Nevermind that I don't consider everything the Clinton Foundation does as good.

But then a lot of people just use these companies to move their money around and hide it from taxes and just generally avoid realizing income in the US.

I would much rather still have all my employees in one building, but we can't compete without having teams in other countries these days.

We're in head on competition with firms that bring in H1B visa holders into the US and other firms who do all services overseas and accept their checks into their zero tax jurisdiction.

It's all very complex but perhaps you and the candidate you support are just so comfortable with all that goes on that it just seems normal to you.

And what it all means is that the US middle class pays more taxes (or incurs more government debt) and has less jobs.

[COLGATE4]

7. If you are as you say "the head of a multinational IT services company"

I am more than amazed - perhaps flabbergasted would be more accurate - that you could actually support Bernie for President of the U.S., Do you really believe that ANY of the policies he says he's going to put into practice (a far from foregone conclusion) are going to improve the problems you have competing in a global economy? Hard to imagine.

[DemocracyDirect]

8. Sorry I don't understand your message at all.

Getting past the part where you didn't accept what I said.

Yes not only do I believe that Bernie Sanders' platform would improve the situation for American workers, I know it.

I'm very familiar with international business, hiring in multiple countries, and offshore tax planning.

What experience are you basing your judgement on?

[COLGATE4]

9. I worked for 20 years as Senior Attorney in the Legal

Department of a very large energy conglomerate with international holdings and subsidiaries.

[DemocracyDirect]

10. That explains why you are very comfortable with offshore structures.

They've been doing that stuff for 6 decades.
Some of my customers are the largest oil and gas exploration companies in the world including Enron before their meltdown.

I've known the IT services business before when there were many jobs being created.
Then the accountants and lawyers like yourself got involved.
And now the jobs are all being created overseas.

Why?

Because the government sets the laws that make it all possible and that is the environment we must compete in.

I won't besmirch you your support of your candidate that appeals to your priorities.

But I would like to see...

1. Withholding taxes of 30%-40% on all tax deductible payments for goods and services to foreign companies and individuals.
2. Recognition of income by affiliated companies as worldwide income
3. An end to deductions for loan losses to foreign companies
4. Universal health care to end this barrier on hiring US employees.
5. Free university tuition to increase the number of talented employees in the US.

I know Bernie Sanders would stand up for these.

[COLGATE4]

12. Those are laudable goals. I doubt that Bernie, if by some

chance were actually to become President could deliver on them. He doesn't seem to have a whole lot of support among his colleagues and you and I both know that the composition of the Congress is very unlikely to significantly change in the short term. I think Bernie would face obstructionism and opposition by the Rethug majority in both houses that would make Obama's 8 years look like the New Deal reincarnated. I don't think he can get the job done, so all the laudable goals really don't really have a chance of becoming reality.

[COLGATE4]

13. I don't thing that globalization is the result of accountants

and lawyers 'getting involved'. This is a seismic shift in the way we think about world economies, and like it or not, money is now encouraged to chase the lowest wage around the globe and I don't see any possibility of it changing. We respond to the changes the international matkets and economies force upon the companies we do work for, not the other way around.

[DemocracyDirect]

14. Good discussion. And I totally understand your point of view.

And just so you know, I benefit from the way globalization works in many ways. I'm certainly wealthier than I was in 2000.

But I support a candidate who is going to call out the system.

And this is a game where you win simply by helping people understand the truth.

I certainly didn't mean to blame lawyers for the laws or the forces of globalization.

I believe in globalization, but unfettered globalization is what has caused huge imbalances that are destroying the country.

The few points I listed would go most of the way to fixing the problem on the international business front.

[COLGATE4]

15. Then let's both hope that some progress can be made in

fixing the problems that globalization has thrust upon us. I'll drink to that!

[DemocracyDirect]

16. Me too.

[ThePhilosopher04]

11. You're in the wrong party. But I get it, it's been hijacked. Wall Street has a glove on both hands.

[Lucinda]

6. Thanks much!