The right baits the left to turn against Hillary Clinton (May 2015)

[anigbrowl]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/us/politics/the-right-aims-at-democrats-on-social-media-to-hit-clinton.html

WASHINGTON — A Twitter post recently caught the eye of Bill McKibben, the environmental advocate and godfather of the Keystone XL pipeline protests. It included an image from “The Simpsons” showing Homer and his family basking in mountains of cash in their living room, followed by a report on Hillary Rodham Clinton’s appearing at a fund-raiser with a lobbyist from the Keystone fight.

Mr. McKibben’s environmental organization, 350.org, has been trying to raise awareness about the ties it sees between lobbyists for the oil pipeline and former aides to Mrs. Clinton. He promptly shared the post with his 150,000 Twitter followers, and the reaction was immediate.

“You expect different from a Clinton?” one person responded on Twitter. And from another: “Did you need another reason not to vote for Hillary Clinton?” Lost in the response was the source of the offending tweet. It was not another environmental organization or even a liberal challenger to Mrs. Clinton. Instead, it was a conservative group called America Rising PAC, which is trying, with laserlike focus, to weaken the woman who almost everyone believes will be the Democratic Party’s candidate for president in 2016.

Just a little reminder that the constant diet of primary outrage is literally designed to make you feel sick of politics and depress voter turnout.

[jfern]

1. Just like they easily defeated that inexperienced and weak Obama in 2008

[anigbrowl]

2. I don't know who your straw man argument is aimed at

Must be sad subsisting on a diet of snark and sarcasm.

[jfern]

10. There was this same shit 8 years ago. Obama was supposed to be easy to defeat.

[anigbrowl]

14. I understand you fine but I still don't know who you're talking to

or what you think it has to do with the article I posted. This isn't about Bernie or the left, but about what the right is doing to influence the Democratic primaries.

[AgerolanAmerican]

29. this whole thread is a straw man argument

you can hardly complain about it now

and no Democrats who have a problem with corporatism and warmongering aren't a vast right wing conspiracy

[BillZBubb]

55. Exactly. As if anyone is surprised the right is attacking Hillary.

And the implication that has any effect or bearing on the left's dislike for her policies is more Hillary camp condescension.

The left doesn't like her past actions, doesn't like her present actions, and doesn't trust her as far as they could throw her. Whatever the republicans motives are doesn't really matter.

[Trajan]

54. Those were just simple facts to go along with YOUR Strawman

The implication that those who oppose Clinton on the left are doing the bidding of republicans ... What an obnoxious insinuation THAT is ...

Gone

[Gwhittey]

3. So what you are saying

Is to stop attacking Hillary and pointing out facts because it could hurt her in GE? I got a idea how about a Democrat does not take money from Fracking industry instead. Then there are not truths that can hurt her.

[anigbrowl]

5. No, that's not what I'm saying

What I said was perfectly clear in the OP, that some on the left are being manipulated by political operatives on the right. Interesting that you have to put words in your mouth in an attempt to stir up a confrontation that wasn't present in the thread to begin with. Why would you do something like that?

[Gwhittey]

13. "Interesting that you have to put words in your mouth"

Um I put words in my head and then went to my fingers to keyboard and then into type in browser window. Not sure what whole putting words in my mouth thing is, but if I was talking the words I would hope it was me putting them in my mouth because after years of therapy Betty White is no longer able to control my mind. Why would you even suggest that.

[anigbrowl]

16. Way to dodge the point

which was that you were misrepresenting what I was saying, which is dishonest.

[Gwhittey]

17. You got me hunger think I am going to go put some words in my mouth.

[litlbilly]

19. You are completely nuts. I am not voting for Hillary because of her policies, I am voting for

Bernie because of his policies. don't need any push from any strawman bullshit you are trying to pull. Try again.

[anigbrowl]

25. I don't care who you are voting for

it doesn't bother me in the least if you want to vote for Bernie. That's not what the article is about but most of the people posting here seem to take it as some sort of personal attack on their beliefs. The defensive/confrontational tone of many replies is bizarre.

[MFM008]

38. Trump or Cruz or Ryan

will make us all deeply regret our ideological purity and deep satisfaction we showed the other democrat side who's boss if they win in 2016.

[Kentonio]

45. Sure, it's 'bizarre' that people would be offended by you drawing a link between opposition to HRC

And to a right wing campaign of manipulation. I mean geez, whatever could have gotten people upset about that?

[anigbrowl]

57. That's their problem. The campaign of manipulation is demonstrably factual.

People who get upset when facts are pointed out to them are not people whose opinions I care about.

[Kentonio]

62. So you're generally fine with people pointing out

Other factual things, like Clintons financial ties to Wall St companies, the factual issue of emails, or the factual history of the racism she showed during her 08 campaign?

[anigbrowl]

63. Yes, although I think their factual status is sometimes oversold

For example most of the stuff posted about her emails is counterfactual nonsense. But I am fine with Bernie supporters itemizing the reasons for their preference by pointing to things they dislike about Hillary's record. You don't see me telling anyone not to vote for Sanders if they prefer what he's selling. I just express skepticism about his chances of victory or ability to deliver on his promises. But campaign away and vote as you see fit in your state's primary or caucus if you haven't already.

[Kentonio]

64. That's fair enough.

Good luck with your campaign (although not too much good luck of course).

[Bohemianwriter]

44. Sorry Mac...

But it's the Hillary supporters who are duped by corporate media while using the same kinds of smear tactics as their fellow republicsans make.

I don't consider Hillary nor her supporters to be progressive nor liberal. They prove their personal cultism and GOP friendly "pragmatism" every time they use a RW talking point to attack Bernie and then ignore the actual policies of Clinton.

I have a list that disqualifies Hillary and her supporters from having the right to call themselves liberal, or progressive, since they have been running away from both terms since the 90s.
3rd way "democrats" have no right to hijack the term, nor pervert the core values of Liberals with their neocon, neoliberal talking points (free stuff remarks, defense of Lloyd Blankfein and their support of killing civilians through illegal wars)

[Haveadream]

7. I think the episode is a reminder

that the powers that be on the right have an enormous investment in voters on the left becoming disenchanted with our candidates. They feed us a constant stream of negatives so that we eat our own. Sometimes it works.

[lovemydog]

33. I agree.

And to me it doesn't matter the 'reasons' why some claim to not vote. To me, they're all just excuses and they do indeed allow the right far more power than it should have in this country.

[SMC22307]

4. I've been aware of Hillary Clinton since the early '90s.

This may come as a shock, but many of us are capable of tuning out the social media noise and forming our own opinions.

[anigbrowl]

9. Did anyone claim otherwise?

This isn't about you. It's about the fact that people on the right are actively trying to influence the Democratic race and have been for a good year. Surely you are aware that some people are susceptible to the sort of manipulation described in the article.

[litlbilly]

20. then I would suggest you talk to the right wing and tell them to stop being mean to Hillary.

[SMC22307]

69. I'm part of "the left," so yes, it is about me.

Don't worry about us being susceptible to the manipulation... the problem is with the Malleable Middle. You know, those who lap up Crap Blogs like Spamdan, Smartypants, dailynewsbin, etc.

[sadoldgirl]

6. Well, it seems that Bernie's campaign seems to

increase voter turnout, though the establishment
does not appear to like that.

[anigbrowl]

12. Could you expand on that?

My impression was that turnout was down from 2008 somewhat, but I haven't been following it closely. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/03/08/so-far-turnout-in-this-years-primaries-rivals-2008-record/

[litlbilly]

21. Nope, wrong again, its been record numbers for dems in lots of places. try and keep up

[anigbrowl]

22. Asking a question is wrong?

I supplied a link to back up my suggestion. Maybe you should try doing the same.

[litlbilly]

24. try an updated link...

[anigbrowl]

27. It's up to date

March 8 was just over a month ago. Guess you have to say something like that because you don't have any links of your own to post. Oh well, no citation = no credibility.

[leveymg]

8. Sure, the Leftwing of the D Party is just a RW conspiracy. . . whatever you say, bub.

Where's the snark icon?

[anigbrowl]

11. A very dishonest characterization of the article

Most revealing.

[RiverLover]

40. On the contrary, that summed it up.

The fact that you can't see that is most revealing.

[leveymg]

49. What's dishonest? The article doesn't prove anything other than the usual campaign diddling.

Both sides do this crap, and always have. You'd have to be incredibly naive to believe the Democratic Left really is a tool of the GOP Right. Stupid, stupid.

[anigbrowl]

58. Your characterization is dishonest

Nobody made the claim that the Democratic Left was a tool of the GOP right. I'm sure you know what a straw man argument is and why I am not impressed by the one you are making.

[leveymg]

65. Well then, what else is the point of the OP article?

[anigbrowl]

66. I've already articulated it numerous times

I can't help you with your apparent reading difficulties.

[leveymg]

67. You've bothered to call me dishonest several times. You can explain what you mean at least once.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. I always vote. I don't vote for Republicans. I don't always vote for Democrats.

[Avalon Sparks]

18. For what it's worth

This doesn't make sense, from the Freep board and FB article comments, the Repubs want her as the nominee, they believe she will unite the pugs to come out in droves to vote agaisnt her.

The overall sense I get from Freeps and talk radio is their best chance of winning running against Hillary.

I pay attention to what the other side is doing and saying... More than I follow Dems.
Know your enemy kinda thing.

[anigbrowl]

23. I read FR all the time and don't think you read the OP carefully

It's not that they don't want her as the nominee, but that they have actively working to undermine support for her far in advance of the actual election. If you thought that the article was saying they were trying to get rid of Hillary then you didn't read it properly.

[Avalon Sparks]

26. I read the article

My question is why would the right be trying to influence the left not to vote for her, if they want her as the nominee.

[anigbrowl]

28. In order to depress turnout in the general election

as explained in the article and indeed my post just above. If you read the article and missed that part then all I can suggest is that your reading skills are...lacking.

[Avalon Sparks]

31. Ok

So read it again, you're correct.

Regardless they were operating under the assumption that she'd win the nom.

It was in fact Cruz's claim in an early debate that the Clintons were worth millions that had me googling that to dispute it.

However he was right, I was able to find reputable sites where their speeches were documented, I understand they did report it transparently. And unfortunately there ended my 20 year support of The Clintons. I can't look away from the frequency, value, and industries that paid them.

So in a way the tactic proved somewhat effective.

[northernsouthern]

30. Old news.

I am sure there is some of this, but I am more sure that they are more worried about Bernie since he polls far better and even Huckabee basically endorsed Hillary. They would rather have her than one of their own, that way they get what they want passed, she takes the heat from the dems, and they can just demonize her to drive up their support (that is if she even wins).

[lovemydog]

34. Yes, old news.

Also pretty old news that projections about general elections that take place during primaries are notoriously unreliable. I say just vote for the candidate in the primaries that you want. And don't worry to much about how others will vote in the primaries. To me, voting in every election is something I enjoy. Even if it's not for my ideal candidate in many instances, I usually find people in my state or local races who I feel pretty good voting for, or at least people I can't stand who I want to prevent from getting into office or boot the heck out of office. I guess for me, since I visit this site I care pretty much about voting and winning elections at every level.

[w4rma]

32. Assuming Bernie wins the primary, it will backfire on the neoconservatives. (nt)

[Betty Karlson]

35. Voter turnout is primarily depressed by Clinton's campaign style.

Thank God Bernie is calling it what it is.

[SFnomad]

60. That's why Secretary Clinton has more votes in the Primaries than any candidate, R or D, right? #smh

[Betty Karlson]

70. cobbled math. She has lost 8 out of the last 9 primaries.

caucus results are always lower in total number of votes. Sanders won a lot of those.

[SFnomad]

71. LOL ... Betty, Betty Betty ... you've got to do better than that

The caucus states are all much smaller states. The largest one was probably Washington.

I realize that BS cheerleaders have had a lot of problems with math lately ... but math is math, she still has the most votes of any candidate running for President right now.

[Betty Karlson]

72. primaries yield more votes than caucuses, no matter the size of the state. Stop spinning.

(But what a great moment it will be when NY goes for Bernie, and he wins the second biggest primary there is.)

[SFnomad]

73. Thanks Betty, you've given me a good laugh for the evening ... buh bye n/t

[Betty Karlson]

74. First they put you on ignore, then they laugh at you, then

they alert-stalk you,

and then...

[SFnomad]

75. Um, ok .. whatever ... (stepping back slowing and making a run for the exit) ... n/t

[Betty Karlson]

77. I am so scary. eom

[postatomic]

36. Why does this not bother His supporters?

It would be interesting to tally the money the GOP has spent helping Him. I'm not talking the twitter shit, I'm talking all the ads run against Hillary using His talking points.

And, how the fuck do you post this article and then travel through space and time to; Just a little reminder that the constant diet of primary outrage is literally designed to make you feel sick of politics and depress voter turnout. ?

It had to be that bad acid I took back in 70'.

[Fumesucker]

37. HOW IS BERNIE GETTING TO THE VATICAN???//?

The outrage is on both sides and arguably the Hillarians are more outraged than anyone.

[djean111]

39. Oh, yeah, sure - before the RW put thoughts in my head, I really did fucking LOVE war and

fracking and the TPP and cluster bombs and bloody regime changes and corrupt arms deals.....I thought those things were GREAT! I thought, hey, why should everyone have health care, if they couldn't afford it? The more people in prison, the merrier, especially if there is a profit to be made, amiright? And, hey, those whiners in Haiti should just STFU - don't they know they live in a tropical paradise already? Sheesh!

What utter bullshit. Issues and facts. For fuck's sake. It is that simple.

[Surya Gayatri]

41. Enormous K & R. Thanks for posting.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. YEsssssss.... if only Bernie werent running, she could have spent the past six months

Championing the need for everyday Americans to have a middle class that needs a champion because she's fighting to be the champion that you deserve so have it your way, because gosh darnit, you deserve a break today, America.

Boy....... would THAT have been exciting!

[pampango]

43. The right can 'bait' all it wants (and I'm sure they do) but 'the left'

was going to 'turn' on Hillary anyway for legitimate reasons. In the same vein, the left did not 'bait' the right into supporting Trump in order to weaken the GOP. The right did that on its own.

I'm sure the right enjoys our in-fighting just as we enjoy theirs. And both sides do try to promote more of the same but the left and right choose their candidates for their own reasons - good or bad - not because the other side tricks them into it.

[baldguy]

46. Considering the number of RW conspiracies & lies about the Clintons that show up on DU

The article is 100% accurate.

[CorkySt.Clair]

50. +1

They aren't fooling anyone.

[Scuba]

47. Hillary is the "right."

[Vinca]

48. That's exactly what I thought when I read it.

If she's the nominee I'll have to decide which Republican to vote for then I go in the booth. Hillary or the other candidate.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

76. yep

she is a goldwater girl - on her best day

she is to his right most days

[KPN]

51. Yeah that's it!

Lol!!!! To ensure a tranquil sense of personal security, Keep telling yourself that.

[arcane1]

52. A year later, team Clinton says Sanders doesn't care about black people and murdered children

Is "the right" responsible for those shameless smears too?

In a sense, yes. The right wing of the Democratic party has zero shame.

[Thinkingabout]

53. The same environmental advocates who uses the fossil fuels and products of those fossil fuels

complains about there being fossil fuels collected. They are hypocritical in the least. They use transportation and public utilities which use fossil fuel to power, they are shameless. Maybe their time would better serve them in finding the products which they use and purchase comes from fossil fuels. Besides this, just as the Greenpeace says Hillary is getting donations from fossil fuels, so has Bernie Sanders, she may have gotten more donations from the employees of fossil fuels than Sanders, well good for Hillary, she must have more supporters which are employees of fossil fuel industry than Sanders.

[BernieforPres2016]

56. What an odd thing for an alleged Bernie supporter to post

So if somebody on the right points out exactly the same thing about Hillary that Bernie supporters have been pointing out, we should support Hillary in the general election because people on the right don't like her?

That's a new spin on the loyalty oath thread, but you go where everybody else who posts loyalty oath threads goes, on my Ignore list.

[anigbrowl]

61. Logic is not your strong point

But that seems to be par for the course in GD . I'm impressed by all the effort put in to refute premises that were never advanced, though.

[SidDithers]

59. DU rec...

ratfuckers gonna ratfuck.

Sid

[pdsimdars]

68. Why would the GOP waste their time doing something Hillary can do all by herself?