2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe foaming frenzy over Sanders giving a speech at the Vatican may be
the stupidest fucking shit I've ever seen. No really.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)team hillary.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511705609
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141408366
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141408086
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141407726
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511705466
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141406989
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511701767
rock
(13,218 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)80% of the other threads were shameful sour grapes -- on the part of supposed Democrats -- hating every bit of it.
riversedge
(70,310 posts)to network with international academics.
senz
(11,945 posts)I keep forgetting how important title, position, status, and power are to Hill types. Me, I'm an old-fashioned Democrat who never got infected with the Repuglican/Third Way outlook. I like the old Democratic values.
Anyway, here is a little about one of those academics: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1701767
I know, I know: pure nonentity. Kissinger and Blankfein are so much more impre$$ive.
And here is something for you:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1702479
kennetha
(3,666 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)As FLOTUS and as SECSTATE, anyway.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Hence the agonized hand wringing and pearl clutching by her supporters
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)who know and like her, so she doesn't need to do photo ops in Rome to try to pick up Catholic votes in New York.
HRC's advantages, in fact, explain why Sanders is campaigning in Italy. It is the kind of bold stroke called for after all, that will generate a lot of video and may just help him a bit. He's also busily claiming to align his policies with the Pope's, the way Hillary has with President Obama.
Btw, the Pontifical Society of Scholars was established in 1994, and this will be their first conference Sanders has attended.
MADem
(135,425 posts)He had the cherubic face but he was HELL on women. The PA was designed to thwart the complaints that JP2 wasn't getting the "straight scoop" because he was surrounded by sycophants and users and power hungry insiders who had mendacity and greed at the forefront of their agendas.
The PA is autonomous, they don't answer to the Pope, but they do provide INPUT--which Popes can--and often do--IGNORE.
It's an academic bunch, and they are fairly collegial--there are more than 20 and less than 40 of them, generally, and they all know each other.
I doubt this will get him the play he wants or hoped for.
Lying about how the Pope invited him to "The Vatican," too? That was just cheesy, dumb and stupid.
Pretentious pretender.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)And I thought delaying or cutting into their break while an American politician "spoke" was funny before. Oh, well.
What I hope any of Bernie's people note, if they haven't stopped reading, is the significance of that knuckle-dragger conservative pope serving in 1994. His ascension was practically synonymous with the right-turn of America with the election of Ronald Reagan, a move to the right that continued through the 1990s and into the new century. A move to the right that in fact occurred around most of the planet. Big waves. Far, far too powerful for the Democratic Party to roll back.
And, look what's happened since as a new leftward wave swells. Obama. Pope Francis. Hope. Change.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It is a new academy, relatively speaking, within the greater "Pontifical Academy" which was founded by Pius back in the thirties. They study all sorts of things of a "social science" nature and they report to the Pope. The idea is to make the Pontiff more aware. They are not bound to him or by him, their opinions are their own.
Pope Francis is a great guy, in that he is revealing the "secret sauce" wrt what beliefs are firm and which have wiggle room. This is stuff the rich and connected have always known. This is why John Kerry goes to communion despite being divorced. Same deal with Teddy K when he was alive--even while the parish priests and that asshole red-faced "spokesman" for the US Catholic church screamed that it was WRONG. There are "rules" ...and there are rules. Frank took the lid off with his latest "Joy of Love" document.
But thus far, he hasn't actually changed a thing. And he's unlikely to, either--he 's just hoping to outlast the hateful old hardliners, and maybe turn some of the younger members of the faith into activists for change--a little more "Berrigan Brothers" and a little less "Cardinal Above The Law."
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)it affects your credibility negatively when you attempt that sort of thing.
"Simple fact!"
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)on the issues?
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/hillary-clinton-late-term-abortions
During a Fox News town hall on Monday night, Clinton and Sanders were asked about their position on late-term abortions. Sanders' stance was easy to discern: He opposes abortion restrictions, full stop. Clinton's answer was murkier. She began her response to moderator Bret Baier with a broad defense of a woman's right to an abortion, mentioning the current Supreme Court case involving Texas' anti-abortion regulations and the continued Republican attacks on Planned Parenthood. But Baier persisted on the matter of late-term abortions, asking, "Just to be clear, there's nowithout any exceptions?"
Clinton replied, "NoI have been on record in favor of a late-pregnancy regulation that would have exceptions for the life and health of the mother."
In the exchange, Clinton seems to support limited bans on late-term abortions after a fetus is viable (about 24 weeks into a pregnancy). Her campaign has said nothing to contradict this. Asked to clarify Clinton's position, a campaign spokesperson responded in an email:
MADem
(135,425 posts)I do have a problem with someone having a psychotic break wanting an "abortion on demand" a week before her due date, and I don't think anyone disagrees with that.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)By the way, women aren't having psychotic breaks and wanting abortions on demand so your (and Hillary's) fears are not justified.
MADem
(135,425 posts)What you need to admit is that you have no grasp of nuance, and you're a "gotcha game" player.
Someone who is not in possession of their faculties cannot make a decision of that sort. If that's "anti-choice" well, you go to town on that. Termination of a fetus with severe deformations who will not have quality of life is a very different situation from the one I described.
Prove it.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)saying things that are so doggone amusing.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)With limited exceptions. It should be between a woman and her doctor -PERIOD!
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)When you can have an abortion. How many weeks you are etc. She is also willing this "negotiate" with republicans putting abortion limits on the table to start co versation with Republicans. Bernie believes the Governme t should NEVER be involved Period. Great townhall compares the two stances. Google is your friend look it up and see what Hillary says about limits. She is not really prp-choice.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Is it downloadable? Are there t-shirts?
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)there is really no need to waste time on a formal treatise and analysis of your jealousy and negativity.
I think the OP gave you guys the amount of attention you deserve.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Size 0 on my shirt, please and thankyou.
MADem
(135,425 posts)People who use the "YOU PEOPLE" descriptor have issues of their own....
Schema Thing
(10,283 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)So you lead this ridiculous charge to tear down Bernie's invitation to speak at this Vatican City conference.
No one is buying your "I know, let's pop their balloon!" schtick.
What you say has no bearing on Bernie going to Italy. What you say is nothing more than a reflection of your negativity and ugly sour grapes.
Good luck with that.
MADem
(135,425 posts)You tell me what I am, you tell me how I feel, you tell me what you think I think, you put your words in my mouth...you're all over MEEEEE like a cheap and funky suit, you are!!!
senz
(11,945 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)OBVIOUS, craven and PANDERING.
It demonstrates that Sanders doesn't understand American Catholics and he's reaching, desperately, for voters he is not gonna get.
It looks like he pushed in, thus he gets the blame even if his buddy Jeffrey "arranged" this for him.
Basically, Bernie caused a shitfling between the President of the Academy and her subordinate, the Chancellor, and I can guarantee you that plenty of the friends of Margaret don't appreciate the way she was blindsided on this. It won't help him.
Especially with his "The Pope invited MEEEEEE" nonsense.
Bernie just didn't think this through.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)You think either is going to say "Oh, look--Bernie went to the Pontifical Academy and spoke for ten minutes...I'ma gonna vote for him!!"
Dream on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Catholics
http://www.ranker.com/list/catholic-celebrities/celebrity-lists
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)That's just me, though. I'm just an actual Democrat, unlike the phonies and fakers pretending like this is some kind of brilliant coup on Sadners' part.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)The strip was insightful and very humane, your posts are juvenile. Calvin has you beaten by a mile.
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)bigbrother05
(5,995 posts)But this is a meeting about global income inequality, something the Pope has spoke out on since he came into the post and is clearly a prime issue for Bernie.
Bernie expressed his interest in the topic with the Vatican and they (or the Bishop alone) decided that having a N. American politician speak would be meaningful for them.
The Vatican has some of the canniest operators in world diplomatic circles, seriously doubt they are being played by Bernie.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Showing up to take the subway - and failing.
Preaching at a church.
It only looks like anything is wrong, because your camp is so invested in trying to bring Bernie as low as Hillary, that you'll seize on anything to do so.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Maybe you missed it: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/hillary-clinton-pokes-fun-nyc-subway-swipe-fail-mayor-de-n553751
More people take the subway (and get annoyed when the card reader doesn't work) than are Roman Catholics--and particularly, Roman Catholics who pay attention to obscure conferences at Pontifical Academies.
You know what looks wrong? A POTUS candidate flying through the night to take ten minutes off of the pee break at an obscure conference, after lying to the world and saying the "pope" invited him.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Didn't think so.
If you think the after-the-fact on her failure is great, wait until you see the after-the-fact on the Vatican speech...
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)You seem obsessed. Your outrage is completely disproportional to the reality here.
We are simply happy that Bernie has been invited to speak at this conference.
Why is this so important to you?
MADem
(135,425 posts)View profile
You seem obsessed. Your outrage is completely disproportional to the reality here.
I'd say whoever smelt it, dealt it, toots! Let's ask you the same question....
Why is this so important to you?
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Do you come unhinged like this in the afternoons or is this an all-day thing for you?
Here's one that will really send you soaring...Did you know that in the press release which announces the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences conference, that Bernie is listed first in the list of participants? They are touting his involvement.
So now what? Is this the part where you barf up your lunch and your head spins around 360 degrees?
Quick! I need an old priest and a young priest! We've got a live one here, folks!
Possessed by sour grapes and misguided faux outrage! Get a stretcher and some jumper cables STAT! Hurry, before the bed levitates out the window!
MADem
(135,425 posts)all over the board and call MEEEEEEEE names!!!
Now you're calling me UNHINGED? Do you kiss your mama with that mouth full of personal insults?
And you really think it's cool to make "Catholic jokes" while your guy is going to the Vatican? Who told you that was a good idea?
You're pretty offensive, ya know!!! Proud of that?
51. Holy buckets...thar she blows!
View profile
Do you come unhinged like this in the afternoons or is this an all-day thing for you?
Here's one that will really send you soaring...Did you know that in the press release which announces the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences conference, that Bernie is listed first in the list of participants? They are touting his involvement.
So now what? Is this the part where you barf up your lunch and your head spins around 360 degrees?
Quick! I need an old priest and a young priest! We've got a live one here, folks!
Possessed by sour grapes and misguided faux outrage! Get a stretcher and some jumper cables STAT! Hurry, before the bed levitates out the window!
WOW--words fail me! You mock the institution where your guy is going to give a speech...."You people" sure are something!!!
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Possession is not a funny thing!
Really terrible on the neck and on old priests who don't call for back up quickly!
My 13 years of Catholic education allow me to speak freely about such matters. It's in the contract I signed at my confirmation.
You used ten exclamation points for four lines of text. Save some for the rest of us, why don't ya?
MADem
(135,425 posts)"Your mother sews socks that smell...?"
Please. Born at night--not last night.
And since you're worried about MEEEEEE and my "ten exclamation points," let me give you a few more.
They're FREE you know ...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sheshe2
(83,928 posts)On Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:29 PM you sent an alert on the following post:
Holy buckets...thar she blows!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1706653
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Mother Of Four
(1,716 posts)That... was awesome.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)You can't make that go away, lunamagica. So maybe it's best to call up the genuine democrat/Democrat within and let it rejoice with the rest of us.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)and over again how this is virtually an endorsement for Sanders.
Since when has the Pope and The Vatican received such admiration and respect here on DU? GMAB!
This is all about winning NY
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)your own words.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Sanders surely didn't say this was an endorsement. He announced that he was invited and that he would attend.
When you have to make shit up to make your point, you automatically lose.
Sour grapes all around everyone!
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)That is not politicization. Some Sanders supporters on DU have rubbed your noses in it. That, as you know, is personal, based on months of insults from y'all.
I can't speak for others, but I love this Pope's concern for the poor and the marginalized.
There is no way this conference was set up at the Vatican for the purpose of helping Bernie win NY. Really. Think about it.
TM99
(8,352 posts)and as you may know, many are Catholic.
And yes, because y'all seem to focus on the superficialities of personalities and persona, I am sure y'all don't get why it is an honor for the US to have a man whose life has been dedicated to social and economic justice to speak at an international conference on that very same topic. We can disagree with the horrid stances of the Catholic Church and its pontiff, and still acknowledge the good that can come from just such an event.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)South American countries (both of whom are better known for having been recently rebuffed by their followers when they attempted to make changes to their respective constitutions so they could serve as 'President for Life') who will chat and tell each other about all they've done to solve world poverty in a small unknown academic institution that's an offshoot of the Vatican. Stop the presses for the solutions for urgent issues that are going to come out of that conference!
unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)when I tell all my family and friends about the the outrage it has caused here, they ask is this for real? They don't understand why this is a thing. We are a very large Catholic family and this is a non-issue (even for those who support Clinton).
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)have said a word about it
senz
(11,945 posts)The entire MSM ignores him. He is a threat to their vast corporate power and profits.
Of course they're not going to mention something good for Bernie.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)...and has declining poll #s in NY, CA, and nationally. Hillarians desperately seeking something to be poutraged about.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Bernie's last win was a tie.
Smell the BERNt...toast.
polly7
(20,582 posts)into something completely insane.
yellowcanine
(35,701 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)And that's gotta hurt.
The Vatican. I think the Pope lives there.
Response to whatchamacallit (Original post)
jillan This message was self-deleted by its author.
Sky Masterson
(5,240 posts)People that have nothing will grab at anything.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)What's next?
MADem
(135,425 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)Vinca
(50,310 posts)After all, we're primarily known for greed.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Kevin Ryan and Joseph Stiglitz are members.
USA is well represented at EVERY academy meeting.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...the Vatican cancel on him.
That's their plan here.
BeyondGeography
(39,382 posts)No really.
Trying to think of one time in history that a major candidate flew to Rome (or similar distance to a foreign country) and back for a 10-minute speech three days before a must-win primary. Forget about the flub over the Pope's role/non-role and every other detail of the trip that has been mangled in the telling.
It has never been done before for a reason: It's fucking dumb.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Shouldn't you be pleased by his "dumb move"? Funny, you don't seem pleased.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)the stupidest is still the outrage over Susan Sarandon's ping-pong club. That one is hard to top.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)a late afternoon 10 minute offering between a discussion and a break seems to be translated as "headliner"
your description is accurate
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)It's not quite as funny as Hillary's #CPTime joke https://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/hillary-clinton-and-bill-de-blasio-set-off-cringing-with-painful-joke-about-colored-people-time/
That's funny cuz it could cost her a whole lot more votes than not being invited to the Vatican.
Uncle Joe
(58,426 posts)Thanks for the thread, whatchamacallit.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)In fact, I've been lurking for years and watching discussions and this was what actually made me finally sign up and comment.
In the interest of transparency, I'm a Hillary supporter but I'll pull the lever for Bernie in November if he gets the nomination. That said, this whole thing has me concerned.
I can understand the schadenfreude on the part of some of the Bernie folks since many of them clearly recognize that this is a tacit endorsement of sorts and who wouldn't want the endorsement of God's representative on Earth? That so many in that camp are non-religious, secular, or outright atheist aside, pay no attention to that. We've still got God on Bernie's side and that makes it ok. A little like the Right Wing and crazy claims of Cruz, Rubio, and others with Jesus on their side, but, well, ok? Yeah, no. It's not ok.
I am very grateful that we have a Pope who understands social justice issues, but the bigger issue is that he is one in a chain of leaders that often skew very much against such issues. This is the same organization that burned heretics and crowned emperors. Whether it was the Pope or the Vatican or Vatican-associated organization that invited Sanders, the whole thing reads like an endorsement and I think it's wrong of any Vatican organization to try to game elections. Granted, everyone group with power tries to game elections, but shouldn't they be above that by now? Charlemagne is long dead.
Here's what's particularly perplexing to me about all this: the loudest battle cry of the the Sanders supporters has been that corporations are running our lives, corporations are depriving us of basic standards of living, corporations are gaming elections. I think this is true to a large extent (though I don't believe Hillary is the $hill they accuse her of being). However, in the face of all of this outrage over corporations, Bernie and his supporters are throwing their lot in which what is arguably the oldest, most powerful, and one of the wealthiest "corporations" on the planet. Yes, the current Pope, in what is ultimately a transitional role when one considers the long scope of history, supporting economic causes Sanders agrees with, but at what long-term cost?
And yes, the Church itself has grown so much and has done many works to be celebrated and admired when they're aren't promoting sexist leadership policies and attempting to control women's bodies, but this cheapens the Church's spiritual mission and sends us back to the days of Charlemagne when they should be rendering under Caesar that which is Caesar's.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)More seriously, practically all the forces in our society work to hide the poor and their plight from our delicate sensibilities, anything including Bernie going to the Vatican that raises awareness of the issue of vast disparity in wealth we see as a positive thing.
I suspect he will perform similarly at the Vatican as he did at Liberty University, a place he was also invited to come and he spoke to their disagreements before trying to find common ground.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)... the Liberty University thing either, for Sanders or Mr. Two Corinthians (which, every time I hear, a joke forms in my head ... "Two Corinthians walk into a bar and ..." but I digress).
The largest plank in the platform of the Sanders campaign seems to two-fold: the plight of the poor but also the undue influence of corporations on policy. This just smacks of hypocrisy but I at least give kudos to the fact that most of the Sanders supporters will at least admit that this is clearly going to gain votes. Most of the Sanders people on my Facebook are totally denying that as either a motivation or an effect so clearly there are more educated (and less disingenuous) voters here.
I frankly see no difference between Corporations trying to game an election and the Vatican. I don't like either instance.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Corporations simply don't speak to moral subjects beyond shareholder value and the increase or loss thereof, morality is not part of the realm of the corporation.
As much as I may object to portions of the moral precepts held by the Catholic Church at least they have some moral precepts beyond greed is good.
The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy and it behooves me to make a cautious alliance for defined purposes that may prove beneficial perhaps even mutually.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)The inquisition? The Witch burnings? Suppressing science at all costs? Or, in the more modern sense, spreading STDs in the name of suppressing birth control or controlling women's bodies via abortion? I mean, yes, they've done some good, especially with this new Pope, but he is simply one figurehead in a long span of histories filled with injustice.
I am glad you understand that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend. Too few people get that.
I am absolutely against undue corporate influence even as I am a capitalist of sorts, more likely to support social democrats than democratic socialists. I don't believe that corporations should be allowed to grow so large that their failure can destroy the fabric of society but then, I guess the Church hasn't managed to destroy us all so after many centuries in power. If they aren't immortal, they're certainly the next best thing.
But this is also not that cut and dry. It is not just an issue of the church having "some moral precepts" while corporations are driven by "greed is good." Even if greed was the motivator behind it, the fact remains that the governor of Georgia would have just signed one of the most anti-gay pieces of legislation in America had corporations like Disney, Salesforce, and others not threatened to boycott. Sure, maybe greed to have access to workers who fell into those oppressed categories drove that decision, but the results were a moral good so I don't think we can just say Catholics Good, Corporations Bad. Both have much to answer for.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Five years ago she would have been on the side of the Georgia governor so that's not a particularly good metric to judge your chosen candidate by and if you want to judge one candidate by that why not.
Bigotry hurts the corporate bottom line in the end and it costs them little or nothing in today's atmosphere to oppose it, just like Hillary.
Perhaps you should try again, I'm not sure what Bernie is doing by talking to people who disagree on some things that's so horrible.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)No worries. I may or may not go back there. It's rare that I have an issue I feel so irate enough to comment about but this was it. I didn't like the Liberty University thing either. At least these corporations pay taxes (though nowhere nearly enoughI get it). These large religious organizations get to stick their thumb on the electoral scale for free. It's wrong. I doubt it will stop me from pulling the lever for Bernie in November if he's the nomineethough I think his economic policies have the potential to hurt small businesses while justifiably going after large corporations and I wish he could find a way to deal with one without hurting the otherbut this kind of influence concerns me deeply. The Catholic Church as an entity has a far, far longer historical footprint than Falwell's university, with countless atrocities against the little guy (including their own Catholic members), countless undue economic influence, and, heck, they've even got a wall.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I suspect that Bernie is a lot more subtle than can possibly be meaningfully revealed in the pomp, circumstance and nonsense of campaign season.
Clinton to my rhetorically sensitive ear talks a lot without saying any more than she can possibly help. Saying what you mean is hard enough, a legally trained mind being deliberately vague and elusive is a wondrous and mind bending thing to behold.
It depends of course on what the definition of "is" is.
The Lurker's thing is a very old internet joke from well before DU.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)Been on the net since '94 but mostly avoided discussion groups with occasional exceptions.
I think they're all panderers on some level or another but I'm jaded. I'm definitely mostly left on nearly every issue, though I wouldn't say it's far, far left. I've never been able to get that excited about a candidate. I was never impressed with Obama till he actually took office and now I wish he wouldn't leave. I haven't liked every decision he's made but he's helped make my marriage accepted nationwide.
I don't love Clinton but I like her and, having been the victim of a thousand false smears in my day, I'm not quick to believe them about others. Most people I know did well when Bill was president and, from the charts I've seen on the AA group, many African Americans did well when he was in office too. As a small business owner, $15 an hour scares me, not because I don't think people deserve it, but because I don't think a single lever can be pulled like that. I think more things need to change fundamentally for something like that to work. A lot of small businesses I know would have to lay people off and work their own cash registers which is a waste for me because I'm better marketing and developing the business. And, if it's not done right and that increase in wage doesn't translate into more spending, the prices go up across the board and $15 is no longer a living wage. I'm no economist but I see enough to know that there are many notes in a musical composition and this is going to take a whole orchestra to fix and not just one guy on a tympani. Corporations will just shift things around, lay people off, make people part time. They'll survive that shift. Small businesses won't survive it as easily and so, voila, you'll have more corporations and less mom and pop, or in my case, pop and pop.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Not to make this personal but if you are paying less than a living wage to your employees then someone else quite likely the government is paying the rest of what they need. Either that or they are slowly or maybe not so slowly losing ground.
Bernie's message is close to "It's the economy, stupid", how come Clinton isn't playing that tune these days?
Bear in mind if the conductor is conducting Brahms and the orchestra is doing Sousa things are going to come out a little oddly.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)Cost of living in my New Orleans shop is radically different from that in the Salem shops and we aren't paying minimum wage but $15 out of the gate would be pretty scary for a small business that often subsists on razor-thin margins. I get it's often fun to bash businesses small and large alike but most of the small business owners I know don't even make minimum wage themselves half the time. They're often just lucky enough to have a husband or wife who has a job that can pay the day to day bills. If the goal is that there are no more small businesses, well, I can respect that that is your goal if you're willing to admit that is your goal, but that is certainly the result of such policies. I actually read someone on this board saying, "well if the business can't afford $15 an hour, they should be out of business." Clearly that person hasn't tried to open a business in this day and age. Workers aren't the only people that get screwed by policies that favor corporations. Small businesses do as well and it's s shame that we have to be the sacrificial lamb in the quest to destroy corporations that will ultimately survive these onslaughts.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be higher wages, but I think there should be some kind of tax subsidies to do it for small businesses. So either they're subsidizing the staff or they're subsidizing us, unless what people really want is a world where only corporations exist. Given that none of our shops are in places known for an excess of national chains and strip malls, I know that's not a world I want to see.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)I have been thinking that it gives new meaning to a " Hail Mary".
PufPuf23
(8,839 posts)Its like the Clinton campaign is unable to acknowledge anything positive about the competition and will do its best to degrade as tactic.
Hillary Clinton could have said it is good to build bridges and gone positive or ignored and let go but felt the need to put a negative talking point in the news cycle.
The Vatican cannot be pleased and also was unlikely to politicize the Sanders visit anyway.
lose lose lose
apcalc
(4,465 posts)I meant it as a joke.... After all, he is behind, and sports teams in football who are behind throw Hail Mary' passes to win.
It was not meant to be critical of Sanders in a negative way. Ah well, humor is many times individual.
PufPuf23
(8,839 posts)I am not sure if I had even read your post.
Funny is good. Kind is good. Mean is not good.
Peace and build up that post count.