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Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 05:55 PM Apr 2016

Would a Clinton Win Mean More Wars?

Special Report: Savvy neocons see Hillary Clinton as their Trojan Horse to be pulled into the White House by Democratic voters, raising the question: would a Clinton-45 presidency mean more wars, asks Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry

The Democratic Party establishment seems determined to drag Hillary Clinton’s listless campaign across the finish line of her race with Bernie Sanders and then count on Republican divisions to give her a path to the White House. But – if she gets there – the world should hold its breath.

If Clinton becomes President, she will be surrounded by a neocon-dominated American foreign policy establishment that will press her to resume its “regime change” strategies in the Middle East and escalate its new and dangerous Cold War against Russia.


Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton addressing the AIPAC conference in Washington D.C. on March 21, 2016. (Photo credit: AIPAC)


If Bashar al-Assad is still president of Syria, there will be demands that she finally go for the knock-out blow; there will pressure, too, for her to ratchet up sanctions on Iran pushing Tehran toward renouncing the nuclear agreement; there are already calls for deploying more U.S. troops on Russia’s border and integrating Ukraine into the NATO military structure.

President Clinton-45 would hear the clever talking points justifying these moves, the swaggering tough-guy/gal rhetoric, and the tear-jerking propaganda about evil enemies throwing babies off incubators, giving Viagra to soldiers to rape more women, and committing horrific crimes (some real but many imagined) against defenseless innocents.

Does anyone think that Hillary Clinton has the wisdom to resist these siren songs of confrontation and war, even if she were inclined to?

more...

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/04/10/would-a-clinton-win-mean-more-wars/
56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Would a Clinton Win Mean More Wars? (Original Post) Purveyor Apr 2016 OP
Yes. And I am not voting for that. n/t djean111 Apr 2016 #1
Peace is good for the economy, but bad for the kinds of neocons who seem to like Hillary Baobab Apr 2016 #33
Well the arms sales through the 'foundation' can assure you of that. ViseGrip Apr 2016 #2
I think as far as potential for future wars go, she's more likely to lead us to war than Bernie gollygee Apr 2016 #3
Yes but if Cruz or Trump want to go to war some Democrats might say no Fumesucker Apr 2016 #20
Senate and house are stacked with Republicans gollygee Apr 2016 #25
Yes. daleanime Apr 2016 #4
Hillary and Netanyahu won't be discussing passover recipes. NWCorona Apr 2016 #5
Anyone who thinks war is the answer is asking the wrong question. awake Apr 2016 #6
Clinton has an angry demeanor.. And her willingness to go to war with Iraq is telling... TheProgressive Apr 2016 #7
Absolutely rhetorical question. Of course there would. Gotta feed the military industrial complex bjo59 Apr 2016 #8
Having the support of neocons is sort of a clue. nt Chezboo Apr 2016 #9
Having supported the neocons is an even bigger clue. nt BillZBubb Apr 2016 #34
Yes, almost certainly. n/t TDale313 Apr 2016 #10
I was about to post the same thing, right down to the comma and the nt. DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2016 #12
We seem to be in a perpetual state of war so I would say NO SharonClark Apr 2016 #11
It almost doesn't matter. A Clinton win would mean NOT ONE STEP Ron Green Apr 2016 #13
In a word, "yes." Fawke Em Apr 2016 #14
"resist these siren songs of confrontation and war" Triana Apr 2016 #15
Yes she thinks that wars are good for business Rosa Luxemburg Apr 2016 #28
I would vote for her in a heartbeat! what we need is a more MUSCULAR foreign policy like hers! Dragonfli Apr 2016 #16
More money for the War profiteers WDIM Apr 2016 #31
does a bear,...well, you know....nt restorefreedom Apr 2016 #17
Yes. pacalo Apr 2016 #18
I sincerely fear she would have us in more wars. summerschild Apr 2016 #19
Would more bears mean more bear-shit in the words? beedle Apr 2016 #21
Well, to put it as kindly as possible, there certainly wouldn't be less wars. BillZBubb Apr 2016 #22
Yes nt riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #23
The odds that she will get us into a stupid and immoral war are very high. Vattel Apr 2016 #24
Yes Rosa Luxemburg Apr 2016 #26
Yes, and the blood will not be on my hands jfern Apr 2016 #27
She has neither the wisdom nor the courage to resist tularetom Apr 2016 #29
Yes, Syria and then Iran just like PNAC planned. nt WDIM Apr 2016 #30
Yes, and that's one of the main reasons Clinton doesn't have my support. icecreamfan Apr 2016 #32
You're kidding, right? YES, it would mean more wars. n/t CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2016 #35
The New York Times favors war for the economic potential. Octafish Apr 2016 #36
Most definitely more wars. Uncle Joe Apr 2016 #37
Yes, and more arms deal brokering profits for Ms. Clinton - Saudi Arabia, Algeria - donated to Zira Apr 2016 #38
Most definitely. Nt azmom Apr 2016 #39
My #1 worry about Clinton. hollowdweller Apr 2016 #40
Absolutely. This is the #1 reason I cannot vote for Hillary. n/t Avalux Apr 2016 #41
Is the Pope Catholic? (nt) w4rma Apr 2016 #42
Madgascar, Gabon, Brazil, Britain ... MisterP Apr 2016 #43
Most certainly. cherokeeprogressive Apr 2016 #44
Yes. rosesaylavee Apr 2016 #45
Robert Kagan and Henry Kissinger are both on her team. What's that tell you? Scuba Apr 2016 #46
Is that a rhetorical question? BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #47
Yep. VulgarPoet Apr 2016 #48
Oh, absolutely. polly7 Apr 2016 #49
Yep. Wars and tax cuts for the rich. tabasco Apr 2016 #50
HRC + MIC = SOS and money for investors. Disgusting!!! War = big $$$$$$'s for some, Death, RKP5637 Apr 2016 #51
That's one of my biggest reservations about voting for her. myrna minx Apr 2016 #52
Same here. It is indeed a big problem for me... eom Purveyor Apr 2016 #55
Is this a trick question? Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #53
Yes Bettie Apr 2016 #54
Uh... yeah probably. It's all one big war now anyway. She will certainly ramp it up. Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #56
 

ViseGrip

(3,133 posts)
2. Well the arms sales through the 'foundation' can assure you of that.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 05:57 PM
Apr 2016

All the wars while SOS? hmmmm.....

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
3. I think as far as potential for future wars go, she's more likely to lead us to war than Bernie
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 05:57 PM
Apr 2016

But less likely than Cruz or Trump. Bernie>Hillary>Cruzortrump

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
20. Yes but if Cruz or Trump want to go to war some Democrats might say no
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 06:40 PM
Apr 2016

If Hillary wants to go to war, who will oppose her? The Democrats?

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
5. Hillary and Netanyahu won't be discussing passover recipes.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 06:00 PM
Apr 2016

She said a White House meeting would be immediate.

 

TheProgressive

(1,656 posts)
7. Clinton has an angry demeanor.. And her willingness to go to war with Iraq is telling...
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 06:02 PM
Apr 2016

So, yes, war, death, killing, destruction would be a natural thing for her...

bjo59

(1,166 posts)
8. Absolutely rhetorical question. Of course there would. Gotta feed the military industrial complex
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 06:03 PM
Apr 2016

and the banks.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
12. I was about to post the same thing, right down to the comma and the nt.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 06:21 PM
Apr 2016

So instead, I'll just say the obvious: I completely agree.

Ron Green

(9,822 posts)
13. It almost doesn't matter. A Clinton win would mean NOT ONE STEP
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 06:24 PM
Apr 2016

toward the new political economy we must begin to build, if humans are to continue on this planet.

 

Triana

(22,666 posts)
15. "resist these siren songs of confrontation and war"
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 06:36 PM
Apr 2016

What she'll be unable to "resist" is the siren songs of the MiC seeking more profits from war.

and no, she won't be able to do that.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
16. I would vote for her in a heartbeat! what we need is a more MUSCULAR foreign policy like hers!
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 06:36 PM
Apr 2016
Only, as conventional Neocon thinking has proven, by flexing our military might across the entire globe, using
the Bush doctrine (preemptive WARS!) Technically illegal wars, gag, as if that even matters re a powerful empire like ours that are above international rules - Combined with her very pragmatic and sensible
Kissinger Doctrine (that allows us to assert our rights of global regime change anywhere we damn well think it will profit our indisputably altruistic Corporations and war tools manufacturers)
Can we assert our true role as the world dominating leaders we are manifestly destined to become in the 21st Century.

Anyone that disagrees with the only truly MUSCULAR hawk on foreign affairs. Anyone in fact that disagrees with such obvious truth should be considered as lending aid and comfort to the enemies we will make in pursuit of our rightful and destined place as military rulers of the globe and should be treated accordingly and swiftly beaten down and placed in the best private prison industry in the world as the traitors they are (and of course their leaders should be hanged for such treason), besides, such inferior thinking is weak and weakness should be eradicated from our gene pool!




Let us choose wisely and choose the one with the muscular policy needed for the new American century!



WDIM

(1,662 posts)
31. More money for the War profiteers
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 07:41 PM
Apr 2016

to donate to the Clinton Foundation.
The war profiteers own the Clinton crime family.

pacalo

(24,721 posts)
18. Yes.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 06:38 PM
Apr 2016

It would take more courage to stand up to the neocons, but I see Hillary Clinton choosing to prove her "toughness" by embracing their agenda.

summerschild

(725 posts)
19. I sincerely fear she would have us in more wars.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 06:39 PM
Apr 2016

I was going to vote for her in 2008 but read more about her foreign policy leanings and voted for Barrack Obama instead because he was less hawkish.

For the same reason, I voted for Bernie in the primary here.

If for any reason Bernie should not win the nomination, I will be totally sick at heart not just because I like Bernie and his plans, but I don't know if I can vote for Hillary. I have so many more reasons to distrust her foreign policy now than I did then. But I know we can't let the Republicans have it.

How are the Hillary supporters getting through this? Do we have that many people who really don't know about PNAC and what those people stood (and stand) for? What are you hanging on to that the rest of us don't know?

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
24. The odds that she will get us into a stupid and immoral war are very high.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 06:57 PM
Apr 2016

A vote for Sanders is a vote for a strong military, but a prudential and ethical foreign policy.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
36. The New York Times favors war for the economic potential.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 08:36 PM
Apr 2016

Most important OP and thread, Purveyor. Here's fuel for the reactor:



Economist Tyler Cowen of George Mason University has seen the future and it looks bleak for most of us. Thankfully, the United States of America may be in for good times, especially for those perched atop the socio-economic pyramid scheme, should war break out.



The Pitfalls of Peace

The Lack of Major Wars May Be Hurting Economic Growth

Tyler Cowen
The New York Times, JUNE 13, 2014

The continuing slowness of economic growth in high-income economies has prompted soul-searching among economists. They have looked to weak demand, rising inequality, Chinese competition, over-regulation, inadequate infrastructure and an exhaustion of new technological ideas as possible culprits.

An additional explanation of slow growth is now receiving attention, however. It is the persistence and expectation of peace.

The world just hasn’t had that much warfare lately, at least not by historical standards. Some of the recent headlines about Iraq or South Sudan make our world sound like a very bloody place, but today’s casualties pale in light of the tens of millions of people killed in the two world wars in the first half of the 20th century. Even the Vietnam War had many more deaths than any recent war involving an affluent country.

Counterintuitive though it may sound, the greater peacefulness of the world may make the attainment of higher rates of economic growth less urgent and thus less likely. This view does not claim that fighting wars improves economies, as of course the actual conflict brings death and destruction. The claim is also distinct from the Keynesian argument that preparing for war lifts government spending and puts people to work. Rather, the very possibility of war focuses the attention of governments on getting some basic decisions right — whether investing in science or simply liberalizing the economy. Such focus ends up improving a nation’s longer-run prospects.

It may seem repugnant to find a positive side to war in this regard, but a look at American history suggests we cannot dismiss the idea so easily. Fundamental innovations such as nuclear power, the computer and the modern aircraft were all pushed along by an American government eager to defeat the Axis powers or, later, to win the Cold War. The Internet was initially designed to help this country withstand a nuclear exchange, and Silicon Valley had its origins with military contracting, not today’s entrepreneurial social media start-ups. The Soviet launch of the Sputnik satellite spurred American interest in science and technology, to the benefit of later economic growth.

War brings an urgency that governments otherwise fail to summon. For instance, the Manhattan Project took six years to produce a working atomic bomb, starting from virtually nothing, and at its peak consumed 0.4 percent of American economic output. It is hard to imagine a comparably speedy and decisive achievement these days.

SNIP...

Living in a largely peaceful world with 2 percent G.D.P. growth has some big advantages that you don’t get with 4 percent growth and many more war deaths. Economic stasis may not feel very impressive, but it’s something our ancestors never quite managed to pull off. The real questions are whether we can do any better, and whether the recent prevalence of peace is a mere temporary bubble just waiting to be burst.

Tyler Cowen is a professor of economics at George Mason University.

SOURCE: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/upshot/the-lack-of-major-wars-may-be-hurting-economic-growth.html?_r=0



[font color="purple"]Dr. Cowen, from what I've read, is a fine person and not one to promulgate war. He's just sayin'.

He has commented on other Big Ticket economic themes impacting us today: "Inequality," for another instance.
[/font color]



Tired Of Inequality? One Economist Says It'll Only Get Worse

by NPR STAFF
September 12, 2013 3:05 AM

Economist Tyler Cowen has some advice for what to do about America's income inequality: Get used to it. In his latest book, Average Is Over, Cowen lays out his prediction for where the U.S. economy is heading, like it or not:

"I think we'll see a thinning out of the middle class," he tells NPR's Steve Inskeep. "We'll see a lot of individuals rising up to much greater wealth. And we'll also see more individuals clustering in a kind of lower-middle class existence."

It's a radical change from the America of 40 or 50 years ago. Cowen believes the wealthy will become more numerous, and even more powerful. The elderly will hold on to their benefits ... the young, not so much. Millions of people who might have expected a middle class existence may have to aspire to something else.

SNIP...

Some people, he predicts, may just have to find a new definition of happiness that costs less money. Cowen says this widening is the result of a shifting economy. Computers will play a larger role and people who can work with computers can make a lot. He also predicts that everyone will be ruthlessly graded — every slice of their lives, monitored, tracked and recorded.

CONTINUED with link to the audio...

http://www.npr.org/2013/09/12/221425582/tired-of-inequality-one-economist-says-itll-only-get-worse



For some reason, the interview with Steve Inskeep didn't bring up the subject of the GOVERNMENT DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT LIKE IN THE NEW DEAL so I thought I'd bring it up. Older DUers may recall the Democratic Party once actually did do stuff for the average American, from school and work to housing and justice. But, we can't afford that now, obviously, thanks to austerity or the sequester or the divided government.

What's important is that the 1-percent may swell to a 15-percent "upper middle class." Unfortunately, that may see the rest of the middle class go the other way. Why does that ring a bell? Oh yeah.

"Commercial interests are very powerful interests," said George W Bush on Feb. 14, 2007 White House press conference in which he added, "Let me put it this way, ah, sometimes, ah, money trumps peace." And then he giggled and not a single member of the callow, cowed and corrupt press corpse saw fit to ask a follow-up.



Gold Star mom Cindy Sheehan tried to bring it to our nation's attention back in 2007. I don't recall even one reporter from the national corporate owned news seeing it fit to comment. Certainly not many have commented on how three generations of Bush men -- Senator Prescott Sheldon Bush, President George Herbert Walker Bush and pretzeldent George Walker Bush all had their eyes on Iraq's oil.

For some reason, Dr. Cowen LOATHES Naomi Klein and her Disaster Capitalism thesis.
 

Zira

(1,054 posts)
38. Yes, and more arms deal brokering profits for Ms. Clinton - Saudi Arabia, Algeria - donated to
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 08:45 PM
Apr 2016

the Clinton foundation after she allowed their buying arms from US manufacturers when she was Secretary of State.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
47. Is that a rhetorical question?
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:34 AM
Apr 2016

As we say in the south, do bears shit in the woods? Do fat babies fart? Is the sky blue?

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
48. Yep.
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 10:13 AM
Apr 2016

If I'd have known she was going to run again, and could actually win, I would have never enlisted. I refuse to have the blood she'll illegally shed on my hands.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
50. Yep. Wars and tax cuts for the rich.
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 10:35 AM
Apr 2016

The two main methods that the 1% uses to drain our Treasury.

RKP5637

(67,109 posts)
51. HRC + MIC = SOS and money for investors. Disgusting!!! War = big $$$$$$'s for some, Death,
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 10:46 AM
Apr 2016

maiming and destruction for others. Oh, and the US takes such good care of vets, NOT! As some say, war is a racket, and a highly profitable for some as they wave the flag.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
53. Is this a trick question?
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 03:02 PM
Apr 2016

Of Course it would

She has always been a neocon chicken-hawk with really bad judgement. That add up to more Americans KIA.

IT also adds up to her supporters obligated to make lots of excuses.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
56. Uh... yeah probably. It's all one big war now anyway. She will certainly ramp it up.
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 03:06 PM
Apr 2016

Bernie might even do the same, but he would be more restrained.

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