2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumVatican: Pope Didn't Invite Bernie Sanders
Controversy surrounds just who invited the Vermont senator to the Holy See, and whether he's doing it for political reasons.ROMENot since Pope Franciss ill-advised meeting with gay marriage opponent Kim Davis has there been so much he said, she said controversy about the pope meddling in American politics.
On Friday, Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders announced that he was very excited about having just received an invitation to speak at a small, invitation-only scholarly conference at the Vaticans Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences conference celebrating the 25th year anniversary of an encyclical Centesimus Annus, written by Pope John Paul II on the evils of capitalism.
-------
Margaret Archer, president of Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, said that Sanders invited himself. Sanders made the first move, for the obvious reasons, Archer told Bloomberg. He may be going for the Catholic vote but this is not the Catholic vote and he should remember that and act accordingly -- not that he will.
Not long after, Monsignor Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences stepped in to dispute Archers statements. "I deny that. It was not that way," Sorondo told Reuters This is not true and she knows it. I invited him with her consensus.
Sorondo later toned down his initial comments telling CNN the invitation should not be seen as an endorsement of the senators nomination. It does not signify any support of the campaign," Sorondo said. "We want to establish a dialogue between North America and South America so we thought to invite a [U.S.] politician. The President of Bolivia will also be there. Perhaps the others (candidates) would have been interested but they did not request to come."
He also confirmed to CNN that Sanders had reached out to the Vatican first. He has expressed an interest many times in the Pope's encyclical and it's clear that he has an interest in studying it, Sorondo said. It might have that effect, but we are not looking to support the campaign."
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/10/vatican-pope-didn-t-invite-bernie-sanders.html
IMO, this whole controversy is much ado about nothing. I'm only posting this article to clarify that Sanders approached the Vatican first and then the invitation was proffered, it didn't come out of the blue. Either way, it's not that big of an issue.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Yes. That is what we have been saying. That is what Archer said, then Sorondo called her a liar.
Sachs, the foreign adviser to Sanders and speaker at the conference, asked Sorondo for an invite.
Truth will set you free. So Sanders can now go to his 30 people conference and listen to scholars discuss what the conference was created for. I am all for that. Kick ass Sanders.
uponit7771
(90,344 posts)... I have to sit all the way back here etc, sorry bout stepping on your foot.
etc
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)what they are discussing, after years of research, lol. Maybe that is why Archer was pissed.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)It's circus time.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)The conference is about a document that forms part of the body of Catholic Social Teaching. CST rests on particular principles with which non-scholars are not usually familiar. However, many of Bernie's ideas do overlap with the economic teachings of Catholicism (although it consists of a wide variety of documents, from the very capitalist but still very affirming of workers' rights Rerum Novarum, to the more socialist-sounding Labor Exercens, to the document discussed at this conference).
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)TBH I'm glad it's Bernie who put his foot in it this time and not Bill or Hill. But boy what a food fight.
uponit7771
(90,344 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)This is in the article. Sorondo finally confirmed that Sanders reached out to the Vatican. Sachs said he is the one doing the reaching out.
I do not get your post.
CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)"In a telephone interview, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, the senior Vatican spokesman, said that the invitation to Sanders did not come from the pope and that he was unaware of whether the pontiff had been informed before the offer was extended. Rather, the invitation came via the hand of an influential Argentine cleric in Vatican City, Monsignor Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, who heads the ancient Pontifical Academy of Sciences."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sanders-ties-his-advocacy-for-a-moral-economy-to-the-work-of-pope-francis/2016/04/09/1082454e-fe58-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html?postshare=5551460219544263&tid=ss_tw
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)a Vatican spokesman made clear today - the invitation was not from the Pope.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)score points making it a political statement that the Pope endorsed Bernie's campaign. They put it out there out of context like every thing they say to let people think that.
They are always dishonest yet act like they occupy the moral high ground.
We have an obligation to voters to point out the truth as this piece does.
jcosgriff
(2 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)political ploy that back fired. Quit making it worse and move on. Not that hard. But, seems such a challenge with the Sanders campaign.
Turin_C3PO
(13,998 posts)don't you think any campaign would use a Vatican invite to score points? That's the name of the game, imo.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)to be anything but a politician and that is cool. But, that kind of lie simply is going to be called out by the opponent.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)he was going to see the Pope.
He lied
Turin_C3PO
(13,998 posts)I think the whole thing is a case of bad communication.
WhiteTara
(29,718 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)with Sanders going to the conference. It's an odd time for him to be away from his campaign, but that's his decision. I hope he has an enjoyable visit.
What has drawn mockery--not anger--from Hillary supporters is Sanders' and his partisans' attempts to embellish the occasion, ranging from an alleged personal invitation from the Pope to the dispatch of a Vatican aircraft to transport him.
Sanders and his fans have managed to put their feet into a situation that could have been a very nice little perk for him. All they would have had to do is tell the truth.
Beacool
(30,249 posts)The invitation was made to Sanders after he expressed interest in attending. He should go and have fun. I agree that Sanders going to a conference held at the Vatican does not mean that the Pope is endorsing him. Ditto if it had been Hillary who attended instead of Sanders. Popes try not to be seen as supporting foreign political candidates.
I would love to meet Pope Francis, he's the best Pope of my lifetime. I would be thrilled to meet him. I don't blame Sanders for wanting to meet him. Although, according to the article, he's not attending the conference. He may stop by and greet the attendees. Who knows?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I have yet to see anyone say that the Pope endorses Bernie for President.
If someone has, I'd be one of the first to correct them.
jcosgriff
(2 posts)So glad this article was published. I like Sanders and I do believe he is a good person and humanitarian, but I am so tired of the 'holier than thou" focus of his campaign. Sander is trailing to clinton in the catholic vote like 60 (Clinton) to Sanders( in the 30s) but noone ever brings up about Sanders pandering. What about his pandering to the African American community - chasing after an endorsement from Garner, having Spike Lee create a video - speaking in Harlem calling people "brother". Gag
Nothing worse than constantly putting himself on a pedestal. He and Clinton voted 93% the same on most issues - yet he is superior. And his followers are worse than Republicans about the Clinton hate - threatening to destroy the party. Some f his followers have created a hit list for Superdelegates - so they can collectively harass them - Sanders needs to speak out on that.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)But at the end of the day he picked a funny time to take a Roman holiday. And that will be how this episode will be remembered if he's lucky.
p.s. Welcome to DU!
Beacool
(30,249 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)lol
Beacool
(30,249 posts)yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)Turin_C3PO
(13,998 posts)It's just like Hillary's emails, another "much ado about nothing". I say this as a Sanders supporter.
Beacool
(30,249 posts)IamMab
(1,359 posts)He wasn't invited by the Pope. He wasn't invited to speak to the Pope. He wasn't invited to even visit the Vatican.
He was invited, by a long-time friend of his who was involved in this event, to speak at an off-site symposium on a document released 25 years ago. Someone with a biased interest in promoting the Sanders campaign has used a Vatican-sponsored event to imply that Bernie Sanders somehow has the Pope's endorsement.
Sanders is trying to use Catholicism as a prop ahead of the NY election, and I'm glad to see it blowing up in his face.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)or are they just repeating Bloomberg's lies to delegitimize the visit?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)ya know like from CNN not Chelsea's Beast
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)If you want to believe... Then it is yours to do. I am good with that.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)it's a link to Bloomberg's lies
Beacool
(30,249 posts)I see nothing wrong in Sanders attending a conference at the Vatican.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)There is no Vatican invite and Bloomberg is not lying
The campaign you support is built on lies like your post
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)You've completely destroyed any reputation you may have once had by posting the most vicious and inaccurate of smears, NEVER ONCE backing down from the lies.
And now you think you get to make statements and you expect to be taken seriously? No, that won't be happening. Your words carry no value at all, and you are the person solely responsible for that.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)You support Sanders right?
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)You're more than welcome to borrow a third grader's tried-and-true "I know you are but what am I?" retort, but it's not your finest moment.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Simple question.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)lostnfound
(16,179 posts)John Allen of Crux just said on CNN that they had asked Bishop Sarondo if they were taking sides or why they invited Bernie and not Hillary. Sarondo told them, "I would've invited Hillary Clinton too, if I thought she would come !"
okasha
(11,573 posts)handed Sarondo his ass.
I like this Pope, but I think he has very little patience with people who embarrass him.
MattSh
(3,714 posts)The one owned by IAC, a company that has Chelsea Clinton on it's Board of Directors?
Response to Beacool (Original post)
Vilis Veritas This message was self-deleted by its author.
Vinca
(50,273 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Vinca
(50,273 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)They don't post such nasty things about Trump, it's like Bernie is the anti-Christ for wanting to go to the Vatican.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)And this was too good to pass up. To them it's proof he thinks he's holy or god or something. Jeezus!
Pathetic desperation to the extreme.
Who wouldn't be excited to be invited to Rome to participate in a conference like this? How many would assume this was in invitation from the Vatican (not the Pope himself...he's got people for that) because of the connection between the Academy and the Vatican? How many would hope for a few minutes with the Pope.
Did he make a mistake by not clarifying right away who actually invited him, and how it came about, and that he most likely would not get an audience with the Pope? Considering the political climate in this election, yeah, he should have done that. And maybe it was political on his part, or maybe it was just too much excitement. I don't put it past him to use this as a photo op kinda thing. Hillary does lots of photo ops and that's OK with her base...but this is really Bernie's first and he's being grilled over the flames for it.
It's OK. He's coated with teflon. He's used to this kind of treatment. But the glee from the Hill camp is pretty sad.
BTW, if Hillary had a political advisor who was a designated speaker at this conference, don't you think they would have tried to get her an invite too? You bet your bippy they would. It would not make her evil, but it would, correctly, be called a political ploy, and I have no problem with that being said of Bernie. It's the nasty stuff accompanying it, directed at Bernie and his supporters, that pisses me off.
I really believe that Bernie is excited because it connects beautifully with his message, and he'd be just as excited if he were not in a campaign right now. Who wouldn't be?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)At this point I can't tell some of them apart from Trump supporters, their hatred is that unhinged.
And well said, you should make that an op in the Bernie group!
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)But, I really am not comfortable posting threads in private groups. I don't think it's fair or good for the forum to have protected conversations with people, while others who cannot participate in that group, can read things we say that may upset them.
I don't participate much at protected forums like that either, except here...where we are pretty much protected from Republican blow back. I guess I have my limits on what I'm willing to expose myself to.
But here on DU, we are supposed to be a family...all of us...working toward the same goal, even if we differ somewhat in much of it, and range from very liberal to conservative. I feel it is too divisive to allow private groups to lock people out because they don't hold the same beliefs or support the same candidate or issues.
It's just me. I think I'll stick with the more open places.
840high
(17,196 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Well it certainly has a lot of panties wadded for "nothing". Clinton must have just about shat her Dr. Evil suit when she heard the announcement, based on the sheer number of attempts to discredit the invite and the bizarre effort to push back.