Vatican: Pope Didn't Invite Bernie Sanders

[BainsBane]

[div class="excerpt"

ROME—Not since Pope Francis’s ill-advised meeting with gay marriage opponent Kim Davis has there been so much “he said, she said” controversy about the pope meddling in American politics.
On Friday, Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders announced that he was “very excited” about having just received an invitation to speak at a small, invitation-only scholarly conference at the Vatican’s Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences conference celebrating the 25th year anniversary of an encyclical “Centesimus Annus,” written by Pope John Paul II on the evils of capitalism.
Francis is not expected to attend the conference, which will take place April 15 and 16 with around 30 participants, including Bolivian president Evo Morales and Ecuadorian president Rafael Correa. Francis will be traveling to Lesbos, Greece, on the 16th to shed light on the Syrian refugee crisis there.

The Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi told The Daily Beast that it wasn’t the pope who personally invited the politician. “The invitation was made on behalf of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, not by Pope Francis,” he said. “There is no expectation that the pope will meet Mr. Sanders.” He then added that he could not completely exclude the possibility, but that nothing was on the agenda at the moment.

Back and forth regarding statements from Margaret Archer and Monsignor Sorondo, already much discussed on DU.

Sorondo later toned down his initial comments telling CNN the invitation should not be seen as an endorsement of the senator’s nomination. “It does not signify any support of the campaign," Sorondo said. "We want to establish a dialogue between North America and South America so we thought to invite a [U.S.] politician. The President of Bolivia will also be there. Perhaps the others (candidates) would have been interested but they did not request to come."
He also confirmed to CNN that Sanders had reached out to the Vatican first. “He has expressed an interest many times in the Pope's encyclical and it's clear that he has an interest in studying it,” Sorondo said. “It might have that effect, but we are not looking to support the campaign."

The Monsignor expressed dismay that there was such a fuss about an invitation to a conference few people would have even heard about. “I don't know what is the problem," Sorondo told National Catholic Reporter. "We have two presidents from Latin America, and we don't have a problem. And we have a problem because we invited one candidate to the White House of your country? It's a little impossible to understand."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/10/vatican-pope-didn-t-invite-bernie-sanders.html

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

1. Hahaha, the daily beast? Why not just ask Chelsea Clinton herself...

We know the Vatican invited him.

[BainsBane]

7. Try reading the article

It doesn't hurt, really. Actual quotes from the Monsignor who extended the invitation, after being approach by Sanders on multiple occasions.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

14. Noone claimed the Pope personally invited Sanders...

Sorondo rejected all your other claims so nice try... Margaret Archer went radio silent after she put her foot in her mouth...

But damn y'all are really salty over this whole Vatican trip. I have never seen so much mud before.

[AlbertCat]

113. I have never seen so much mud before.

They're just miffed because Hillary didn't even think to invite herself (and Sanders didn't have to invite himself)

But Hillary had little to no imagination. That's one thing this primary has firmly established.

[riversedge]

53. Bernie earned 13 Pinnochios ..this past week. This too, will catch up with him...

RT pls (TY) Bernie earned 13 Pinnochios & 10 Delegates this past week http://correctrecord.org/this-week-on-the-sanders-campaign-13-pinocchios-10-net-delegates/ …



WayneEdH
?@WayneEdH

Bernocchio!!!!!!!

#ImWithHer
.

[AlbertCat]

112. Bernie earned 13 Pinnochios

LOL!

Well, he still has a long way to go to catch up to Hillary's "Pinnochios" for the last decade.

I wonder if some "Pinnochios" are more "nosy" than others?

[mcar]

105. Perhaps The Daily Caller would be better?

I seem to recall some Sanders supporters here citing that august publication. When others questioned using a RW source, they were told to refute the story, not complain about the source.

[DanTex]

2. In short, Bernie decided as a political stunt to lobby for an invitation to a conference held at

Vatican City, and used the clout of his supporter Jeff Sachs to land one. And then he tried to sell it as an "invitation from the Pope".

Cynical, and it's good to see him getting called out on this.

[beedle]

40. Really?

You have evidence that Sanders tried to sell it as an 'invitation from the Pope'?

[HERVEPA]

77. In short, another stupid post from this poster.

[frylock]

119. #DanBeingDan

[DrDan]

114. and then claimed on national TV that he would be meeting with the Pope

the pinocchios are piling up here

[NWCorona]

3. To continue going down this will only help Sanders

So carry on.

[BainsBane]

8. The mortal sin of reading the news

Go down the path of informing myself. How dare I?

[840high]

37. If that's the news

you read - you're not informed.

[beedle]

42. And what "news" do you think you've read?

Last edited Sun Apr 10, 2016, 07:55 PM - Edit history (1)

That the invitation wasn't from the Pope?

Here's some real news ... you're right, it wasn't, no one said it was, well no one other than people like you who have a real hard time with reading comprehension when you hair catches fire.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. Campers are crazed over Vatican conference!

[BainsBane]

10. Well, it is the height of irony

to see long-time atheists absolutely woozy with delight over the anticipation that Bernie will have an audience with the Pope, a figure they maligned until they decided Bernie's campaign mattered more than their life-long battle against religion. It's truly astounding how easily people throw aside issue and even most heartfelt conviction to promote one man's career.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. Please point out any post of mine that even remotely

praises Sanders for going to this conference.

I'll wait.

[BainsBane]

26. Well, you aren't the only atheist on DU, are you?

and one in particular has been particularly aggressive in attacking Clinton supporters who dare to question anything related to this affair. And here you are engaging in a thread, calling me crazed for posting about this, when the fact is some Bernie supporters have gone so far as to claim that Bernie is chosen by God to be the next President.

Then there is the fact that the support of him appears increasingly faith-based. No one is allowed to question him in anyway without being subject to attack. We are habitually maligned for posting basic news stories like this, while Bernie's campaign is regarded as the sole oracle of truth. Any effort to point to documentation, whether FEC documents on the congressional record, is met with insults, and every excuse Bernie comes up with determined to be the only possible account.

I don't recall seeing you denounce the visit either. Nor have I read posts by you condemning the Pope, typical in any story that doesn't involve Bernie. Therefore, my point holds.

[beam me up scottie]

43. I'm an atheist and I've said more than once that I wish he would stay away from the pope.

And Warren has been criticizing popes longer than you've been posting here so there goes what was left of your credibility.

Seriously you're going to question his record on DU? Has he ever created a sock puppet to get around the rules?

[unapatriciated]

57. lol

don't know if you have seen this, but it is so DU. Hubby mad this vid back in 2008.

Your comment really made me laugh, I forgot about the sock.

[beam me up scottie]

63. No I haven't, that is FABULOUS!!!

Thanks for the trip down memory lane, excellent choice for the soundtrack too!

[Rainforestgoddess]

59. Ha ha ha!

. Nor have I read posts by you condemning the Pope,

That's funny.

[Goblinmonger]

79. Come over to religion sometime

You'll see plenty of pope unhappiness.

You're Sanders fans are a religion is just ridiculous, btw.

[bvf]

81. I don't recall ever saying, "Unfuck the pope."

There's another for you.

[Rob H.]

85. "Nor have I read posts by you condemning the Pope...

typical in any story that doesn't involve Bernie."

Seriously? You have to have him mistaken for someone else.

[bvf]

89. Holy shit!

I had to give that a second read with the ignorance filter turned off.

Holy shit!

[bvf]

96. Huh.

Then there is the fact that the support of him appears increasingly faith-based.

"Fact"? "Appears"?

Sounds like you're seeing what you want to see, and slapping a stupid label on it.

[AtheistCrusader]

110. "Nor have I read posts by you condemning the Pope"

CAN you read?

The answer to that question may explain that complete utter ludicrous bullshit I just quoted you saying.

I'm an atheist and a Bernie supporter. Fuck the pope and his whole club of fellow-traveling professional virgins with an imaginary friend.

I am disappointed that Sanders would meet with him. I suspect their conversation will be limited to the income equality side of things which is both encouraging, and also dissapointing since the pope is the titular head of the single wealthiest private organization on the entire planet.

[bvar22]

118. While I have had little respect for The Pope and the catholic male hierarchy,

mired in medieval times, I DO respect THIS Pope...Pope Francis, and the lines he has crossed to modernize the church and work to solve the gross inequalities and in our World.
Whether YOU dislike him or not, he is a VERY POWERFUL man worldwide, and many MILLIONS & Millions of people listen to him.

Pope Francis is shaking up the conservative Catholic Establishment like Bernie is shaking up the conservative Democratic Party establishment. There are definite parallels there, though Pope Francis is operating on a World Wide scale. That is one reason why this invitation to the Vatican conference IS a BIG DEAL, especially considering that Bernie is Jewish. (Has that ever happened before?)

Pope Francis is certainly a much needed improvement over the previous pope, Pope Ratfucker or whatever his name was.

[AtheistCrusader]

126. This pope is a PR figurehead and nothing more.

It's a 'kinder gentler church' but if you read his actual output, he is not to the left of John Paul II on anything. Nothing. Not a single thing.

Ratzinger represented a small lurch to the right, and he liked wrapping himself in velvet and gold. Francis is 'humbler', eschewing the physical appearance of wealth.

His positions on every single thing, from same sex marriage, to poverty, is not one iota different from Paul, and probably a 1% deviation from Ratzinger.

[bvar22]

128. I understand you are bitter.

I also understand your agenda.
It is your screen name.
So go on with your "crusade" while Pope Francis helps change the World.
I'm sure he will do just fine without your help.

[AtheistCrusader]

129. He has yet to change anything except public perception.

Nothing material has changed.

[Warren Stupidity]

125. Actually I am the only atheist on du.

I assumed you knew that. While we may appear to be separate individuals we are in fact a tightly woven fabric, like a rug or a carpet.

[Rob H.]

82. "...long-time atheists absolutely woozy with delight..."

Here on DU? Links or GTFO.

[Barack_America]

5. I am 100% certain that a meeting with the Pope will not happen...

...for Hillary Clinton, given she will be at her $350,000 "Dinner with the Stars" fundraiser.

As for Bernie Sanders, who will be at the Vatican speaking against such idolatry of money, I'd give the chances of that meeting 50-75%.

The possibility of a meeting really scares you all shitless, doesn't it? That's obvious, given this about the 100th OP freaking out about it.

[BainsBane]

11. I'll take that bet on Sanders

If you're 50-75% certain, that should give me 2-1 or 3-1 odds.

[Trenzalore]

35. I give it a 0% chance of happening now that this has been politicized.

It is doubtful the pope wants to inject himself into democratic primary politics.

[brooklynite]

67. Scares me?

What scares me is the prospect of a nominee who makes rash political decisions during an important campaign. I'll be worried that, in a tight race with Trump or Cruz, he'll take time off for something he thinks is more important.

I would be perfectly happy if I thought that the campaign felt this trip had political benefits (I don't see what they are, but at least I'd know their thinking was in the right place). Right now, I don't.

[Codeine]

6. "He also confirmed to CNN that Sanders had reached out to the Vatican first."

Boom.

[oasis]

12. +1

[Barack_America]

20. Yeah. An application was required. Scandalous!

At least Sanders was accepted, unlike the Clinton Foundation, who was flat out denied by the Pope when they sent him an invitation.

[Else You Are Mad]

30. Exactly!

Why don't they complain that their beloved was snubbed by the Pope instead of this BS they are spewing.

[frylock]

120. That's what this exercise is all about.

[okasha]

66. Margaret Archer was telling the truth.

[imagine2015]

9. Just more crap being slung against the wall by supporters of Hillary, the candidate from Wall Street

[BainsBane]

15. These are quotes from the vatican

the same monsignor who invited Bernie. So is he a Hillary supporter or a direct emissary of the Pope, extending his approval to God's chosen candidate?

Or by crap do you mean the atrocity of reading and posting the news?

[beedle]

44. Yes, and what do you think

about those quotes that are so disastrous to Sanders?

Be specific please.

[seabeyond]

16. No. The Pope did not invite Sanders. Nor did Archer, the woman running conference. Sachs asked

for an invite for Sanders. Sachs is Sanders Foreign Policy adviser and will be a speaker there. He has pull. He hooked up with Sorondos. That is the way we get things done. Sanders stepped over the line claiming the Pope invited him (summoned him) for a meeting.

[beedle]

46. What?

When did he claim the Pope invited him?

I don't see a problem with anything else you claim happened?

Yes, that is the way to get things done[ ... take initiative, apply yourself, try, networking, etc ... isn't Hillary bragging how she is the one that can get things done[u? Seems Sanders out "get 'er done"-ed Clinton ... as usual.

[seabeyond]

65. "You're meeting with the Pope?" "Yup"

"How did this come about?" co-host Mika Brzezinski asked.
"It was an invitation from the Vatican," Sanders replied.
"That's kind of impressive," Brzezinski said.
"It is," Sanders replied.

[beedle]

71. Where exactly does it say the Pope invited him?

"It was an invitation from the Vatican" Which it was, or at least one of the representatives of the Vatican.



"You're meeting with the Pope": "Yep, and the Pope himself sent me the invitation, not some underling or lowly administrative pleb" --- that would be considered Sanders claiming his was "invited by the Pope".

Of course, if you just want to do some 'reading into' things .. we can play that game.

Hillary's transcripts ... she will not release them because she said there is information in them that will damage her chances for election.

[seabeyond]

78. The Pope did not send him an invite. He clearly stated he was meeting the Pope.

[beedle]

83. Correct, there is no evidence that the Pope send the invitation

Now either show where Sanders claimed that the Pope invited him or apologize, or just go away and be ashamed.

Oh, and yes, in one of Sanders many interviews that first day he said 'yep' to the statement "so you;re going to visit with the Pope" (or some similar worded statement.) In all other interviews he made it clear that he was not sure whether he would be meeting the Pope or not.

[seabeyond]

86. Further, the Popes spokeman said he did not send the invite.

[beedle]

90. English --- consists of words --- words mean things

For example when you say "the Pope did not send the invite", and someone says "correct, the Pope did not send the invite" .... that means "the Pope did not send the invite". Got it??

Okay, now that we have that straight, let's move on the English lesson 2:

When someone asks "Where did Sanders say that the Pope sent him the invitation". the proper response would be to provide a quote from Sanders saying something like "The Pope sent me the invitation" ... so far you have completely failed.

[seabeyond]

91. "there is no evidence that the Pope send the invitation""the Pope did not send the invite"

Yes, words matter.

[beedle]

93. Correct, so now that we have that settled

What is this lie you think Bernie told?

[seabeyond]

97. "You're meeting with the Pope?" "Yup"

I am done with your game.

[LuvLoogie]

98. Sanders did say he was meeting with the Pope and that the invitation

Came from the Vatican. Neither of those is true.

[beedle]

100. And you're first post ... the post we are discussing

says that Bernie claimed he received the invitation from the Pope.



Now, if you really want to address the other issues you keep bring up in order to defelct from your original lies, then address this issue first. Either provide proof, take back the accusation, or run and hide.

[LuvLoogie]

103. That is not my post. What you are deflecting from is the fact that

What Bernie asserted on the View was false/untrue/mistaken/a lie/bullshit. Take your pick.

[LuvLoogie]

104. Did you read the Statutes? The Vatican is the Catholic state. The Pope's own spokesperson,

Cardinal Lombardi, says that the invitation did not come from the Vatican, but from that Academy. Sachs knows this. He has always known this. And Bernie knew it when he went on the View.

[DrDan]

115. some here are adamant that the invitation came from the Pope

either (1) the Pope approves all invitations or (2) the Vatican=Pope.

And on the View video, he nods his head in agreement when the host mentions the Pope has invited him.

Of course there is no evidence that the Pope sent the invitation. To the contrary - even the Vatican denies it. That has not stopped his supporters here. They are still convinced it came with the Papal wax seal.

To make matters worse, in the face of video evidence, some still are still in denial about his claim of a meeting with the Pope.

So sad the desperation has reached this level. Can't imagine the upcoming wailing and gnashing when Clinton seals the nomination.

[LuvLoogie]

80. The Pope's own spokesperson, Cardinal Lombardi, stated

That the invitation DID NOT come from the Vatican. It came from the Academy. The Academy is not the Vatican. The Academy is autonomous body. Read it's articles of constitution.

[beedle]

88. Well, there you go.

Looks pretty connected to the Vatican to me.

But let's assume you are right, your big scandal is that a American Jew was not aware that the "The Pontifical (you are aware what that word refers to right?) Academy of Social Sciences" Located in the Vatican City, was not fully integrated with the Vatican but might be just an autonomous body of the Vatican.

Well, you certainly have quite the scandal on your hands there. Woodward and Bernstein please bring in your Pulitzers we're changing the names to the LuvLoogie awards in honor of this amazing investigate work.

[Warren DeMontague]

107. Archer? With the Pope?

[seabeyond]

108. Lol, You lost me on this one.

[Warren DeMontague]

109. The first few seasons were the best.

[Godhumor]

127. Wonderful reference

As Ripley said to the android Bishop.

[Armstead]

17. More Bullshit and distraction

Why not talk about how good Clinton's policies will be good for America?

[Hiraeth]

21. because they aren't ... ? this is all they are left with. bless them.

[Hiraeth]

18. do please post another one. laughing while bored. a new hobby acquired.

yawn. laugh. snicker. snicker. laugh. yawn.

[Nanjeanne]

19. "He has expressed an interest many times in the Pope's encyclical and it's clear that he has

an interest in studying it"

Wow that Sanders is such a creep. Expressing interest many times about learning something.

Insane how some people insist this means he finagled an invitation. I applaud Senator Sanders for having an interest in something beyond war, selling arms, stroking Wall Street and asking big bucks for speeches. So what if Sanders has expressed interest - perhaps he has been expressing interest from before he even decided to run for President. It's great that he is a thinker and wishes to particpate in discourse with other thinkers and it's wonderful that his interest has prompted an invitation from the Vatican to particpate in this.

But carry on . . . this is only the 200th thread on this . . .

[Hiraeth]

22. and why on earth would he invite someone NOT interested?

[Nanjeanne]

23. Silly you for asking such a silly question.

[Hiraeth]

24. silly me!

[frylock]

25. Day two of butthurt obsession.

Delicious.

[99Forever]

28. Bingo.

The wheels come off the limo and a fire is Berning.

I LOVE the smell of Camp lying Liars desperation.

[beam me up scottie]

41. LMAO! Exactly!

[JRLeft]

27. Hillary supporters are,worried Bernie will get a big bounce from the trip

That is why they are so concerned, the optics hurt Hillary. Hillary does fundraisers while Bernie advocates for the poor. Hillary never discusses poverty. She could care less about the poor.

[Lucinda]

33. Nope. We are pointing to the fact that Bernie spins the truth and it's out there now

I am perfectly fine with him going to the thingy. The subject matter is close to his heart.

[JRLeft]

39. Please you support a liar. I wonder why Hillary supporters never argue over

policies?

Could it be Hillary is too conservative?

Of course she is.

[Lucinda]

48. Her record proves you wrong, and if you had truly done your homework, you would know that.

It's fine to support whatever candidate you want, but villifying my candidate just to promote yours, especially with untruths, isn't very progressive, or Democratic.

[JRLeft]

101. Actually her record proves me right, she's a neocon.

[LuvLoogie]

99. This has nothing to do with Hillary. This is about Sachs and Bernie.

[Else You Are Mad]

29. This is a non story.

Politicians doing politics during a primary is not a story or an issue.

[bvar22]

31. Being invited to a conference at the Vatican IS a BIG DEAL.

There is no way to spin that as a negative, and it is hillaryous to watch the contortions of Camp Weather Vane at DU in their failed attempts to deny that.

If Hillary were to suddenly receive an invitation from the Vatican, they would flip overnight, so fast it would give most of us with a moral compass severe whiplash.
They would twist their sideshow contortions into somehow trying to prove that Hillary's invitation was better than Bernie's.
They have become a parody of themselves, and are worth reading for the comedic value ONLY.

My mother taught me to look away when people are embarrassing themselves in public.
Sorry, Mom, but I just have to watch this carnival sideshow.

[Else You Are Mad]

32. Good point. I completely agree. Nt.

[beedle]

47. Well, the conference itself was not a big deal

inviting a candidate running for POTUS made it a bit bigger.

But the constant hand waving by Hillary supporters over the pettiest of little details, every single one of them false (except he said 'yep' once to a question on a day time entertainment talk show) is what's really making this a "big deal". LOL

The Streisand effect strikes again.

[BainsBane]

36. A non-story? God's chosen candidate

traveling to the Vatican is now a non-story? My, that's a pretty fast turn around. I guess that's a pretty clear acknowledgment that it backfired on him.

[Else You Are Mad]

38. No. It just means...

I don't fall for hyperbolic attacks on Sanders. I also never said he was god's chosen candidate nor have I ever thought such. I merely believe he has better policies and is a stronger candidate. Please get over yourself and direct your vitriol at someone else.

[beedle]

49. Don't worry

I'm sure Sanders will not use his new position as Advisor to the Supreme Being to rain down havoc and locus on the child spawn of the devil. Hillary is safe.

[TheDormouse]

34. yawn

[TMontoya]

45. Bernie caught in yet another lie.

[beedle]

50. Which lie is that?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

51. Another? You'll need to show me both lies, in print, reputable source.

[TMontoya]

52. Wow!

This Vatican thing is really backfiring badly on Sanders.

[Iliyah]

54. The Vatican is pissed

And Sachs and Sorondo knew actually what they were doing, putting the Catholic Church, i.e. Pope directly into the Unites States of America's political arena.

This ain't over.

[azurnoir]

61. Thank you for confirming what I suspected Camp Hillary hopes the invite will be withdrawn

if they kicked up enough stink, dirt , and innuendo

[okasha]

72. Wrong.

"Camp Hillary" has no desire to embarrass the Pope any further than Sorondo has. Au contraire, I don't doubt the campaign is delighted to have
Sanders go haring off for a crucial two days asApril 19 approaches.

[LuvLoogie]

87. Sachs secures the invitation on March 30th. Sachs then goes

On Morning Joe the next day and trashes Hillary throughout the segment. Sachs is introduced as Bernie's foreign policy advisor. Later Bernie claims, on The View, that he has received an invitation from the Vatican and is meeting the Pope - - both untrue.

It's made-for-TV. This us what Archer objected to, and her claims are bearing out. Hillary has nothing to do with it, other than as the foil to the continued and increasingly worn-out meme--Bernie saint/Hillary greedy warmonger.

When video of Sachs' Morning Joe appearance was posted here yesterday, it became pretty clear to me that this was a political initiative from the Sanders Campaign. Daily, the Chancellor 's statements indicate that Margaret Archer's criticisms were founded.

[jmg257]

62. Oh, did they revoke his invitation? Shoot - after they printed programs and everything.

Well - we can still watch Hill hobnob in the Bay Area.

[jmg257]

55. So Sanders WILL be at a conference at the Vatican? Cool! What's Hillary doing again? nt

[beam me up scottie]

56. Schmoozing with other millionaires in Hollywood I think.

After the pope snubbed her you can see why her supporters are making this a big deal but it's backfiring splendidly.

With all of the threads whinging about this visit I guess they don't mind looking shallow and petty.

[jmg257]

60. Yeah I read about a couple $350K dinners, our Hill getting influenced by the glamorous super-rich.

That'll sell real well.

But hey, she WILL meet the Clooneys!

[brooklynite]

68. ...and raising money for State Parties and down-ticket races

That'll sell real well with the Superdelegates.

[jmg257]

69. THAT is a might good point! They're all in too, so makes sense they should share the spoils.

I mean "donations".

Gotta play the $$$ game!

[brooklynite]

73. So, you disagree with Howard Dean's "50 State Strategy"?

All we have to do is elect Bernie and all our problems are solved?

[jmg257]

76. No, I disagree with the huge $$$ in politics, & politicians being bought and paid for.

Millions and millions by lobbyists influencing political favors, etc etc.

[nolawarlock]

130. But being manipulated by one of the wealthiest institutions in history ... that's ok? n/t

[jmg257]

131. Ha - you should talk to my families - most are catholic! nt

[nolawarlock]

132. I was raised Catholic

... so I can relate. And I grew up in a Massachusetts Catholic Democrat family whose various positions on things often reflected the Democrats before they reflected the Church with my stalwart city councillor aunt being involved with the DNC back in the day.

I have a strong regard for strides this pope has taken but I also don't think he's all that different than the others. The issues are nearly all the same with only the emphasis he puts on some over the others having actually changed. He focusses more on economic justice and is less judgmental regarding divorce and gays but he has also made it clear that they are still considered sins.

But the fact remains that this is an organization that has 2,000 years of oppression under its belt along with the good things it has done. It is a foreign nation. It has walls around it bigger than anything the ghastly Trump would probably ever be able to build. It has meddled in affairs of state since it began and, one might argue, began from affairs of Roman state.

I may be a Hillary supporter, if you want to call it that. I'm not especially enthusiastic about either of them. I'd rather keep Obama but will vote for whichever of them gets the nomination because they each represent the largest number of interests I have. I'm more of a Social Democrat than a Democratic Socialist but we're all products of perspective and life experience so I don't begrudge anyone their views in life. However, that being said, this conference issue would bother me no matter who got the invite. I'm not jealous that Hillary didn't get one. It would be just as upsetting to me if she got one and Bernie didn't because this is bigger than some conference. This is Vatican leadership yet again showing its willingness to use its muscle to meddle in affairs best left to voters. The Kim Davis debacle (which apparently didn't have the full buy-in from the Pope either) was another example of this.

I don't want the Church telling people who to vote for anymore than I want Goldman Sachs doing so, but to let the church do so is even more dangerous to me because, despite the toxic allure of greed, it is a far easier mindset to negotiate with than devotion. I've never seen a suicide bomber head into a nightclub for a stack of cash and a six pack of beer.

I'm not fan of huge corporations controlling as much as they do, but they're a lot quicker to adapt than most religious groups are. Not much more than a century ago, we had child labor in this country. A hundred years later we don't (here anyway). Not more than a century ago, there weren't female Catholic priests. A hundred years later, well, you get the idea. And lets not forget the role of corporations like Disney in compelling the Governor of Georgia to veto one of the most anti-gay pieces of legislation in America.

And, quite frankly, I mainly signed up to post after years of lurking because I can't believe that the Hillary people aren't talking about this. That is what people should be concerned about, not who invited who, whether or not he's going to meet the pope, who's jealous of who, or why didn't Hillary get an invite. I think it's hypocritical of Bernie to rail on about big money controlling elections yet throw his lot in with big religion all while making sure to outline the disagreements on gays and abortion. What difference does his disagreement on two such issues make? The bigger picture isn't what he agrees with the church on. The bigger picture is, where is the will of the voter versus the pressure of religious leaders on their flocks to conform? I hated the Liberty University thing too, and the Candidate also Known as Two Corinthians was an utter embarrassment and signpost as how badly religion and politics can mix.

[jmg257]

133. Cheers! Thanks for sharing - lots of good stuff, that makes sense. Welcome! nt

[nolawarlock]

134. Many thanks!

I have a feeling this is probably a rough time to dip my toe in this water with passions so inflamed. I remember how heated 2008 got on this site but this feels worse. I don't have the luxury to be a #hillaryorbust, #neversanders, or whatever it is they're calling the pumas of 2008 these days. Obama made my marriage legal, even if it might have been the result of Joe Biden sticking his foot in Obama's mouth, and I won't help some two-bit huckster on the Right pander my marriage away to religious fanatics. Yeah, Hillary may be far later to the game than Sanders, but at least she's there now. Frankly, I think both she and Obama were there then too, but you know how politics rolls. I'm for either one of them in November, and maybe we'll even have a chance given that Louisiana just elected a Democratic governor. Of course that may be a fluke due to the embarrassing travesty that was Jindal.

[jmg257]

135. AH - likely most of it will blow over after the primaries.

Once the Dem choice starts going against Trump or Cruz, it'll be all hands on deck.
A bit of passion is a good thing, though it does tend to get ridiculous (and repetitive).
Gives people a chance to learn things they may not normally. Maybe think outside the box, or what-not.

Congrats on your marriage - good luck!

[nolawarlock]

136. Thank you again...

It is kinda freakish watching sometimes. I hesitated to jump in because of all of the passions. I have strong opinions but god, I have friends that are pretty right wing, I've got friends that are communists. I might get into it with a bit of snark but at the end of the day we're all people I'm not gonna hate someone because of who they support.

What I worry about with Trump is that he's moving not only the needle of what's acceptable political conversation, but the entire spectrum as well. I've seen things on this site (and on Facebook) from supporters of both candidates that I felt were beyond the pale from antisemitic stuff, to frequent comments on Sanders' age, to Stockholm Syndrome, to veiled sexism. And it's a shame because I do think there are a lot of brilliant thinkers out there that have a voice because of the social media, blogs, and boards. I was a politics major in another life, before the Web, so I'll always have the passion for it, but I don't like the hatefest. A little snark is fun and I appreciate a little sense of humor in it all but some of it gets really ugly and for what? Whichever of these candidates gets in, unless there's radical change in congress, they're gonna have a hard time pushing anything through. I don't think Obama gets the credit for a lot of what he's done, especially in spite of all the roadblocks he's had to plow past.

[guillaumeb]

58. The BBC disagrees with you and the Daily Beast.

US election: Bernie Sanders invited to Vatican by Pope
8 April 2016
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-35999269

So does NPR:


Bernie Sanders Accepts An Invitation From The Vatican
http://www.npr.org/2016/04/08/473495847/bernie-sanders-accepts-an-invitation-from-the-pope

So does Reuters:
Politics | Fri Apr 8, 2016 2:42pm EDT
Related: Election 2016, Politics, Pope

Papal official denies report Sanders invited himself to Vatican
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-vatican-idUSKCN0X5257

Quite a silly controversy
that deflects from the real differences between the two candidates.

[bvar22]

116. but...but...but...Bernie said "Yup" on a TV talk show.

Surely that outweighs direct quotes from the BBC, Reuters, and NPR!!!

Camp Hilary has lost its hive mind.

[guillaumeb]

121. Distraction, deflection, and demonization are not really valid responses.

But they are a sign of a worried campaign, and worried supporters.

[jmg257]

64. Try a cigar with that sour taste, it'll go down easier. nt

[Iliyah]

74. The Pope, i.e. Vatican are not happy on this one

Why, because of the abovementioned.

Just tell the truth on the invite, then say, I hope to meet the Pope. Why distort the truth?

[jmg257]

75. Yeah - I hear they are super pissed. Think they'll withdraw the invite? nt

[frylock]

122. Yeah. Links showing the Pope and Vatican are not happy on this one?

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. I understand why you guys are seriously worried

for starters the optics. I promise, it is time to let this one go... you are not helping. The media will protect her.

Walk away and do not post propaganda from a propaganda site. It does little to advance your cause.

And with that... trash thread. Even if this is at this point entertaining as hell.

[zappaman]

95. As a Sanders supporter, you should be happy about this.

[Jitter65]

84. So, the "evil" Archer was correct. Bernie did reach out to them first. nt

[jimmy_crack_corn]

92. Show me the link from CNN.com

Here's the link from REUTERS => http://tinyurl.com/gneoz2s

"U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders was invited to speak at an April 15 Vatican event by the Vatican, a senior papal official said on Friday, denying a report that Sanders had invited himself.

"I deny that. It was not that way," Monsignor Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo told Reuters in a telephone interview while he was traveling in New York. Sorondo, a close aide to Pope Francis, is chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, which is hosting the event.

He said it was his idea to invite Sanders."

[ucrdem]

94. The point is not insignificant. There's a reason Francis is the first Jesuit pope:

the order has historically been mistrusted by secular authorities, also by other orders, for their worldliness, specifically their direct participation in electoral politics, so much so that the order was officially "suppressed" in 1773 and restored in 1814 on condition that they would henceforth stay out of politics. So if it starts looking like Francis is meddling in an important election he might well be the last Jesuit pope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_the_Society_of_Jesus

[bvar22]

117. Oh?

So NOW, Pope Francis is directly involved in sending Bernie the Invitation?

[snowy owl]

102. Still don't know...Sanders reached out? When? Recently? This makes no sense.

Holding my opinion. Besides, I'm not voting on him because he gets some special attention or not from the Pope. Who cares? I haven't posted one thing (that I can remember) about this because it doesn't matter it he slightest to me. This whole Vatican thing is ridiculous. I guess it should matter to Catholics but why anybody else/

[Warren DeMontague]

106. HE'S DOOMED, NOW!

DOOMED I SAY!

[Surya Gayatri]

111. Kick.

[NurseJackie]

123. Now, isn't that exactly what we've been saying ALL ALONG??

[Live and Learn]

124. Nobody but Nobody invited Hillary. nt