If the Democrats could win both the black vote and white working class vote, they would win huge

[Fast Walker 52]

So which candidate is best at appealing to both constituencies?

It's sad that in 2008 and 2016, it seems to be an either-or proposition, where one candidate does great among blacks and the other does great among whites.

http://www.thenation.com/article/whats-wrong-with-bernie-sanderss-strategy/

Does it have to be this way?

[Chasstev365]

1. RFK was the last Democrat to hold that coalition together

Sadly, I don't think the Democratic Party has ever fully recovered from pushing the Civil Rights Acts through Congress in the mid-1960's and the year 1968.

[Fast Walker 52]

2. true... but Bernie certainly should appeal to both

He's hugely popular among whites, and I just wonder if he was the nominee, if he could build that coalition more than HRC.

[JI7]

25. they are voTing for trump instead of Sanders

[w4rma]

35. No. Sanders slaughters Trump in the heat-to-head polls. He beats all Republicans.

He has that coalition, right now. Hillary is the only person in his way from making it happen.

[JI7]

36. i'm talking about working class white voters

many are supporting trump right now.

[zalinda]

3. There are a lot more

'fuck you, I got mine' people than you think, and a lot of them are people of color, as I have been finding out. I find it interesting that they are so afraid of losing what they have that they will deny people on a lower rung help. These people don't understand that if we keep going on like we have been, they are going to lose what they also have, little by little. War costs money and someone has to pay for it. These establishment politicians aren't going to make the rich pay for it, and the poor have no more money, so guess who will have to pay? These are not what you call long term thinkers, they can only think short term, and every body has to pay for it, and those who have little, will suffer more.

Some one asked what the difference was between Trump supporters and Bernie supporters? With the Trump supporter I think it's anger, he puts the blame on some one else. Again, short term thinkers, they want theirs, that's it. They don't understand that Trump will take them don't with him. Trump does not negotiate, he doesn't know what to do when someone will go against him, he surrounds himself with yes men. Trump can't fire the Congress or the Senate, so the only thing he can do to remain in power is to become a dictator or step down.

The Bernie supporter is also angry, but in a constructive way. Not only are they angry about jobs, but they also angry about climate change, social equality, war, economic equality and not only the future of our country, but of civilization and of the planet. Bernie are long term thinkers. We may not have it now, but we are willing to work for it, so it becomes the future. All we need is a leader to bring us all together, and that is Bernie.

Why would some Bernie supporters vote for Trump? Because they are still angry. And the Democrat establishment did everything they could to stop Bernie, so they are angry at the Democrats. That anger will go to Trump. If the Democratic Party had been impartial in this primary, Trump would not be in play for these angry supporters. They will not vote for Hillary, she does not represent anger, she represents defeat and depression. Every thing about her is 'we can't'.

Hillary supporters should know that this anger is not going away. They should know that this anger is just going to build. Just because it hasn't come to your neighborhood yet, doesn't mean it won't. You have no idea what the talk is like down here in the trenches. And, it may never affect you, but it will your children and grand children. Bernie represents the quiet revolution, but if he gets shut down, the French revolution will be in the future, but with guns. You can't hold people down forever, with out it exploding one day.

Z

[Lizzie Poppet]

4. Superb.

[Fast Walker 52]

5. yes, great post

[bettyellen]

10. what exactly is this thing you think the "I got mine" black voters are trying to hold on to?

I'm truly puzzled by that statement.
I know that as a woman, I'd like us to gain human rights and equal treatment. Do you think that is selfish? We are half the electorate.

[Ken Burch]

12. And Bernie is just as committed to help you win that as HRC is.

More so, in fact, because the more progressive candidate will always be more anti-bigotry than the less-progressive one.

[bettyellen]

14. That was not my question. But that poster stuck his foot in his mouth big time, and half a dozen

people are cheering him on when he accused black voters for being selfish- for putting their human rights before his paycheck?

Seriously, that no one even notices this bullshit gives me pause.

[Ken Burch]

17. I didn't defend what the poster said. Just responded to your post.

Mind you, that poster is not the candidate.

[bettyellen]

18. well no one called him on his slimey little swipe at black voters. the resentment toward black

voters, and women as well for wanting civil fucking rights is pretty disturbing. there's been an unfortunate under current of that all through the primaries. wish it did not go unchecked here.

[zalinda]

27. It wasn't a swipe at just black voters

it was a swipe at all the people who are 'fuck them I got mine' people, and most people think they are only white. I have recently found out there are people of color who also fall into that category. Most people look at white Republicans as those sort of people, but many Democrats are also in the category.

I apologize if you thought that I only meant black people, my sentence construction should have been better.

Z

[Autumn]

13. Don'r forget the, "I have pay my student loans, why should college be free for them crowd".

[bettyellen]

19. it's the "How could college be free with so many red states in the way" crowd.

[Autumn]

21. No, it's "I have pay my student loans, why should college be free for them crowd".

Right here on DU

[bettyellen]

22. I love that the people whose top issue is more money for them call others greedy...

People without full civil rights are pissing you all off for having different priorities. It's been interesting to watch the anger and condescension toward women and blacks here. It's interesting to see so few acknowledge it.

[Autumn]

23. "pissing us all off"? It was a Hillary supporter who said that

"I have pay my student loans, why should college be free for them crowd"

. a Black woman here on DU. Yeah it's been real fucking interesting.

[mythology]

33. I have a hard time with saying that Sanders supporters are long term thinkers

if you then follow it up with, some of them will vote for Trump. That doesn't show a lot of long term thinking.

But it also is reflected in the claim that the party hasn't been impartial. By what measure? Sanders was allowed to join a party that he has absolutely blasted in the past. He's been given access to party resources, etc. Yes he's losing the pledged delegate count, but that's not the party's fault. Unless one is defining the party as not just the structure or the DNC, but actual voters who by any measure, prefer Clinton.

The "revolution" isn't being held down by anything except most people aren't voting for it. It's overly melodramatic to claim that the French revolution is coming, but even if that is what you think is coming, it didn't end well for anybody, especially the poor as it resulted in successive dictators. You may recall that the leader of the French Revolution met a rather ignominious end under the same instrument of terror he imposed on so many others because in the end, he couldn't handle the fires of anger that he stoked. What happens when Sanders can't deliver on his promises? We've been told that some number of his supporters will vote for Trump and given how the Republican candidates keep getting worse, who will those Sanders supporters be behind in 2020 because Sanders couldn't wave his hands and fix everything?

As for saying Clinton represents can't and defeat and depression, that's an opinion, one I don't think is founded on a solid basis. I think it's founded on a dangerous zealotry that thinks it can't be wrong. It's what makes so many Sanders supporters unable to admit that Sanders' past positions on guns were wrong, or that Sanders didn't refuse to support gay marriage as they lambaste Clinton for doing. Don't get me wrong, many Clinton supporters have the same rose colored glasses about her, but they aren't the ones threatening violence if they lose the election.

You hear can't when what Clinton is saying is to do things in a slightly different fashion. There's a reason they voted the same 93% of the time in the Senate. There is a reason that Clinton was the 11th most liberal senator during her time in office. But you are hearing can't and depression and defeat because you can't let yourself imagine that you could be wrong.

[uponit7771]

34. +1, long term thinker and voting for trump is straight up podium bird logic no doubt

[zalinda]

37. No, it's the anger.

Voting is the only voice they have. Voting for Trump says that they are angry. Voting for Hillary says that they are okay with the way things are going. That is the logic.

You really don't understand the people at the bottom, do you? They feel invisible, they feel helpless and they feel hopeless. All the demonstrations, marches and occupying has been either ignored, dismissed or has been broken up by police in riot gear. Bernie gives them a voice, he gives them hope and he gives them a chance to be involved in their own elections. He assuages the anger with the promise of a chance to make a change in their life for the better. Take Bernie out of the equation and the anger comes back.

Z

[zalinda]

38. Not all Bernie supporters will vote for Trump

but some will. Anger will tear things down when pushed hard enough. You think riots in ghetto communities are for fun? And when their anger is not assuaged, then what?

As for Bernie being let into the Democratic Party, they only did it because they thought he wouldn't be a threat to Hillary's election to the Presidency. Bernie became a Democrat so he wouldn't be accused of 'a Nader run' and split the ticket. I wish he would have run as an Independent, so he wouldn't have had to put up with the DNC's suppression of his run. It's funny, but the DNC was glad to have him until he proved that he didn't need them. They had it all planned out for Hillary to win. Super delegates were bought and they declared their vote for Hillary almost before the race had begun. It's hard to say no to the DNC and Hillary if your election funding is threatened to be cut.

As for Hillary representing 'I can't'. Have you not listened to her speeches (I mean the ones she gives us for free, not the ones she is paid for)? And do you think Bernie supporters are stupid? We know that if the Republicans hate Obama, they hate Hillary even more. She will be hit with an impeachment hearing as soon as possible. We have archives of her speeches and Bernie's speeches, guess which one was always on the side of the people and which one wasn't.

I live in New York, she did shit for New York, if it wasn't Wall Street it didn't exist. We gave her a chance and she sucked. Unfortunately, she ended up a Secretary of State who took out Gaddafi and laughed gleefully about it. Ask Liberians how they like living there now, how they love the war and ISIS. Yes, we need a President who will help destabilize the area more. Those of us in the poor class are tired of war. We are tired of seeing our loved ones killed and/or broken, when they come home.

There are things that cannot be done incrementally but pressed to be the first things done, and Hillary doesn't understand this. Hillary lives high above the trenches. She doesn't even know what the middle class is going through, much less the poor. She surrounds herself with people who make more money in one year, then the vast majority of us could make in a lifetime. Hell, she is talking about privatizing Social Security, even partially privatizing it is dangerous. I get $10,000 a year, she couldn't make it a week on that amount.

Bernie supporters don't have their heads in the clouds, we are prepared for work. We have worked our entire lives. No one is expecting a hand out, contrary to what Hillary supporters spout. We know that it may not happen in our life time, but at least we know that someone is trying. We know that Hillary won't even try, because we are invisible.

Z

[Fumesucker]

6. What on Earth makes you think the Dems even want to "win huge"?

I think that's the last thing they want, they were like kids who have to go to the bathroom real bad when Obama had a sixty vote majority in the Senate, they couldn't wait to get rid of it and were practically dancing in their eagerness to be done with the burden of not having opponents define their limits.

[Fast Walker 52]

8. I meant the Dem base who actually cares about progress

certainly it's a big mistake to conflate the Dem base with leadership.

[Ken Burch]

7. The problem with that article is that it perpetuates the myth

Last edited Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)

That the Sanders campaign wasn't interested in appealing to black voters. Of course we are. Of course we are trying to do that.

What does Joan Walsh want? Are we all supposed to say nothing about class until racism vanishes? Work from the assumption thay economic justice issues only affect white people?

Bernie has never minimized the damage done by racism. It's just that he thinks that racism isn't the ONLY injustice in this country. And he thinks that building coalitions across racial lines on economic issues is a crucial part OF defeating racism.

What is so terrible about trying to build a coalition of everyone who is hurting?

[Fast Walker 52]

9. I agree that the Sanders campaign is interested and it's tragic they didn't attract more black votes

Overall, my feeling is that Sanders is uniquely positioned to win back middle-class whites and keep the black vote.

[Ken Burch]

11. Thanks. my post was aimed at the article, not you. n/t.

[geek tragedy]

15. because black voters are Democrats and white voters tend to be more Republican

in terms of general election outcomes.

Pretty simple, really.

[wildeyed]

16. Yes.

Did you read the article? And why are The Real Progressives the ones who want to entice the Dixiecrats back into the party? They were the ones who forced Bill Clinton to the middle. Now that demographics are changing, we don't need them to the extent that we did in the 80's and 90's.

Here, go play with the Flip-O-Matic. The winning math is now educated whites and blacks. That coalition wins the GE. No one WANTS to kick working class whites out of the party, but if they insist on being really racist, and we have to choose, it won't be them.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

[bettyellen]

20. Interesting stuff. I see a lot of resentment toward women and black voters here.

It has not been pretty.

[JI7]

24. i noticed it for some years

It had been moving in that direction and Obama 's presidency has brought it out more in the open.

Many lower income working class white people are voTing for trump. But black people and other minorities voting Clinton is seen as worse.

[bettyellen]

26. I know- not a peep here about Obama tightening up banking regulations this past week.

I had to search to find one thread, and it seems like people here could not give a single fuck. One said it seemed "phony"? Like it was a bad thing? Same on a GD thread about the importance of women voters- sunk like a tone.

I guess only SBS can do good things from the country? The resentment is palpable.

[wildeyed]

30. I see resentment toward anyone

who does not embrace SBS without question. And yes, it has been an eye opener, for sure.

[Fast Walker 52]

29. I know that is the concern

But surely there are ways to attract middle class whites without appealing to racism... I'd like to think so. I don't think Bernie does, at least.

[wildeyed]

31. We are doing that already,

attracting middle class voters with college education. Your OP specified "working class" whites. Democrats have not succeeded with that demographic since LBJ passed Voting Rights.

[RunInCircles]

28. In the GE imagine how many voters the Democratic Party could get with Bernie's support + Obama's suppo

The Democratic Party has a rare opportunity to pick up the enthusiasm of the Bernie coalition and the AA vote when Obama starts campaigning for the Democratic nominee. Bernie's only weakness to date has been his ability to attract a substantial portion of the AA electorate. We have to remember though that President Obama will be out campaigning for the Democratic Party nominee. This combination brings far more voters to the polls to vote democratic than the Hillary/Obama combination which still leaves a large portion of the Democratic base and Independent voters un-enthused and possibly not voting for democrats.
If you want Democrats to win the Bernie plus Obama campaign is the strongest team to put in the field.

[Fast Walker 52]

32. good points-- also if Bernie is nominee, his VP pick could make a huge difference

if a POC. Pick will be critical especially given Bernie's age.