Something that I've been thinking about should Hillary become President...

[mak3cats]

Disclaimer: I am a Bernie supporter, but the following is NOT an argument for voting against Hillary, it's just for discussion's sake.

If she gets the Dem nomination and wins the GE, she'll be President and Bill will be First Gentleman (or whatever the term ends up being). What are the chances that world leaders, particularly of regimes that see women as second class citizens and/or that dealt will Bill when he was President, will try to bypass Hillary and deal with Bill instead? I wonder if the Clintons have considered this possibility.

I ask this sincerely because of personal experiences, even though of a much more mundane sort. For example, several years ago I bought a snowblower. A male friend accompanied me (because he had a truck to transport it), and even though he kept saying, "She's the one buying this," the sales rep directed all of his comments and questions to my friend and pretty much ignored me. (I kept quiet because it was funny, and I was getting all the information I needed without having to fend off any "upgrade" sales pitches.)

So please don't hijack this thread with vitriol (from either direction). I'm curious as to what people may think about this.

[onehandle]

1. Cool story, bro. nt

[mak3cats]

4. Thanks for dismissing me completely...

...pretty much proved my point.

[nichomachus]

46. Wow, did you learn

That arrogance and snottiness in Hillary School? You sound just like her. I hope to god she doesn't get in. Her administration would be just ugly.

[MattP]

2. Most Countries have had female leaders and we don't seem to have this problem

[mythology]

24. But most countries aren't considered the leader of the free world

Whether you think it's a good thing or not, we are in a different position than any other country.

[surrealAmerican]

3. Other world leaders already have experience working with ...

... leaders who are women. I say this as a Bernie supporter too. This should not be a problem.

[1StrongBlackMan]

5. Well, remember ...

HRC has been on the world stage ... all of the world leaders know her and have dealt with her ... so it is unlikely that they would bypass her and deal with Bill instead.

[Arkansas Granny]

11. This. She has already established a relationship with many world leaders.

They will have no problem with her Presidency.

[1StrongBlackMan]

13. her established relationships with world leaders ...

at this point in time and world affairs, is a big plus in my book. It cuts out the "gotta get to know ya" time in diplomacy.

[lovemydog]

58. +1

[upaloopa]

6. I wouldn't stay up nights worrying about it

[mak3cats]

7. Clarifying: The US's situation would be completely new...

...having the President's spouse be an ex-President.

[1StrongBlackMan]

17. I don't think so ...

But that might have been the case, had HRC not served as SoS.

[mak3cats]

23. Thank you for your reasoned and non-hostile response...

I do believe I'm done with this thread though. Pity rational discussion is the exception rather than the rule around here.

[Thinkingabout]

8. Hillary is not the first woman in a similiar position, Golda Meir, Queen Elizabeth has been

Queen of England for a while, Margaret Thatcher and many more women have served very well. Yes for the US this is a first woman president and Bill will be the first spouse who has held the same position. I don't doubt Hillary's ability to be president nor do I doubt Bill's ability to be First Gentleman.

[mak3cats]

9. I'm not questioning the Clintons' abilities...

...I'm wondering about the reactions and responses from other world leaders (and I'm talking about the anti-female regimes primarily).

[Thinkingabout]

10. Actually the salesman made a sexist remark, I have been known to correct them

When an assumption like this is made.

[mak3cats]

16. If you're referring to my mundane experience??

...I chose to not engage because it wasn't worth my time and effort, and I was getting what I needed without doing so.

(But I did send a letter to Sears afterwards detailing my experience, and have never shopped there again.)

[Thinkingabout]

19. Don't try to rewrite my post, I simply said the salesman made a sexist remrk and

I have pointed it out before, I did not say anything about your experience.

[mak3cats]

21. I didn't quite understand your post...

...so I wasn't rewriting it, but answering to what I thought you meant.

[Thinkingabout]

51. I did not imply anyone's experience, just made a statement.

[athena]

12. Excellent argument!

Brilliant! A great reason for never having a woman president!

I am so impressed!



ETA: I don't appreciate someone making a sideways sexist attack against Hillary while pretending they're asking a serious question.

[seabeyond]

15. I know, right? Lol. Nt.

[mak3cats]

25. And I don't appreciate someone taking what is meant as a serious question...

...and turning it into a "sideways sexist attack." Like I told 1StrongBlackMan, I'm done with this thread.

(BTW - I am female, 56, and worked on HRC's Senate campaign here in NY, even though I don't support her now. So your snark is unwarranted and unappreciated.)

[seabeyond]

14. Clinton successfully dealt with all of them as Sec of State.

[athena]

18. Yes. Moreover,

Bill has already shown that he understands Hillary is the one running for president and the one who will be making the decisions. If someone tried to deal with Bill, he could simply direct them to talk to the President herself.

[seabeyond]

20. Lol, I stopped reading at the first sentence, challenging a woman President to be taken seriously by

some countries. I didn't get far enough to read that garbage about only addressing Bill or whatever. Ah ha.

[mythology]

22. I think that's a really good question and not one I had thought of

in spite of several times being on the male end of that sort of thing.

I don't actually know what I think the answer would be. I would hope that Bill would tell them to go to Hillary, but Bill does seem rather fond of the spotlight in some ways. But I suspect that Clinton will do fairly well as she's been Secretary of State. It's a position that often puts the person in that job in some rough situations and particularly with the Middle East. Although I suspect for the most part Middle Eastern leaders are less against women than one might think. I believe that Middle Eastern rulers have cynically used the religious teachings that seek to control women as a method to keep control in their authoritarian hands.

Where I do think it might have some impact is with those groups like Isis or other extremist groups who I think are more aggressive about their hatred of women (and this includes some non-Islamic extremist groups as there are a lot of conservative groups here who aren't fond of women) who use that as recruiting tool.

That said, I agree that I don't think it's an issue to vote against Clinton. I'm sure if Clinton is elected (or whenever we do have a female president), they will be able to go to other female heads of state for advice on dealing with that.

[mak3cats]

26. Thank you...

You understood what I meant.

[sadoldgirl]

27. It is a serious question and should be considered as such.

Neither Russia nor China nor the ME have women
as leaders. Her position as SoS was under a man's
presidency. The fact that Bill loves the limelight and
is his own greatest admirer may cause a problem.

However, that should not stop her. She is a strong woman
and therefore can assert herself.

Her first test will actually be domestically with the
repuglycan Congress. If she can work out that part,
the international scene will be easier to handle.
jmo.

[artislife]

32. She could also finally dump him.

His positive impact on her campaign has fizzled.

[JudyM]

54. Lol, that was my first thought.

[Trust Buster]

28. How sexist. We get it, she's a woman and should not be taken seriously. Next.

[mak3cats]

33. Like I said, no rational discussion. Next. (eom)

[Trust Buster]

40. What you're saying is tantamount to saying that Sanders shouldn't be President

because he's Jewish and Arab countries wouldn't deal with him. C'mon, this is the 21st century.

[mak3cats]

43. Like I said in the OP, this is not an argument for or against...

It's a discussion of the potential "issues" (I won't say problems) when you have someone in charge (HRC), someone who used to be in charge (Bill), and people who may or may not have dealt with either or both of them. It could be an interesting psychological study. At no point have I said this is a reason not to vote for Hillary.

[Lazy Daisy]

29. I honestly don't see this as a problem

And I don't think Hillary would let it become a problem. I think anyplace that is ass backwards, she'd just leave Bill at home, forcing them to deal with her.

[mak3cats]

37. I can see that - thanks (eom)

[CharlotteVale]

30. I think the real issue would be Bill satobaging her, as he has a history of doing

with her campaigns.

It's like he can't stand not being in the spotlight.

[Baobab]

31. No, they would not do that because he would not be President.

However, we should be aware that the power of presidents and elected legislators is rapidly being decreased by trade deals and soon they may be basically ceremonial offices (Presidents, Senators Congresspeople) when it comes to all issues of financial import to corporations.

The real power is being rapidly shifted to trade bodies like the WTO and the arbitral bodies that decide disputes for them.

[NV Whino]

34. Since she has served as Secretary of State, I don't think that will be a problem.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. SMH/nt

[mak3cats]

41. I proudly stand with you contributing to the discussion...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. I proudly stand by welcoming you into the 21st century.

World leaders are going to bypass a duly elected female head of state to talk to her husband, really???

I broke my elbow and had to go to the emergency room. The attending physician was a female. I should have demanded to speak to her husband.

SMH

[mak3cats]

45. You are so not getting what I mean. Done. (eom)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. Sorry from waking you from your nap, Mr. or Ms. Van Winkle.

This is the 21st century and we have women lawyers and women doctors and yes even women heads of states.

[mak3cats]

49. That would be Ms Van Winkle...

...and you're being deliberately obtuse. Please read through this entire thread for my comments. My OP has NOTHING to do with whether women are qualified to do anything.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. It has everything to do with it, your obscurantism notwithstanding.

Did heads of states demand to speak to Mr. Gandhi, Mr. Thatcher, Mr. Bhutto, Mr. Merkel, Mr. Meir, Mr. Arroyo, Mr. Acquino, et cetera?

Lots has happened during your nap, Ms. Van Winkle. We even have an internet where people all over the world can communicate with one another instantaneously. You're on it, lol

[mak3cats]

52. OK - you get the last word...

...because you just became not worth my notice. So go ahead with whatever stinging rejoinder you can come up with and then you can feel like you bested a mere woman. Enjoy!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. Why would you introduce gender into our debate?

OK - you get the last word...

...because you just became not worth my notice. So go ahead with whatever stinging rejoinder you can come up with and then you can feel like you bested a mere woman. Enjoy!

Why would you introduce gender into our debate?

I have won arguments and I have lost arguments and my conquerors and conquests have come from both genders. Your argument that folks will bypass a woman when it comes to important things is just a weak one.

[JudyM]

55. Some people here turn everything into a sexism issue if it questions Hillary. As if all she is is a

woman. It's tedious and unimaginative, isn't it...

[JudyM]

36. I think there will not be a clear delineation of power in many situations where Bill will be meeting

and deal making with foreign dignitaries. He is sooo going to love being back in the seat of power and there's nothing that anyone will be able to do about it. It's going to be making people's heads spin. And this is a point that is not going to be lost in the GE if she gets the nom. He's far more than her surrogate.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

38. i once went into an auto parts store with my dad to get a radiator cap

Same damn thing. Dad finally told the guy "I have no frickin idea what you just said. Why aren't you talking to the person who requested the part?"

[mak3cats]

39. Good for your Dad! (eom)

[ucrdem]

42. I see it as an advantage, like Merkel and Hollande rolled into one.

Some will prefer dealing with Bill, fine. Some will be tickled by dealing with Hillary. Some will hate them both with a white-hot fury I suppose though I can only think of one who has a habit of hating on the current Democratic president.

[Codeine]

48. She's previously dealt with many of them as SoS. I think she'll be fine. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

56. I don't think it'll be a problem.

I mean, we had all sorts of issues when Dubya was President, but people trying to go past him to deal with his dad wasn't one of them.

[Retrograde]

57. Angela Merkel seems to be doing OK

as did Golda Meir, Margaret Thatcher, Indira Gandhi, Benazir Bhutto, and Megawati before her - the last two were leaders of predominantly Muslim countries. Those are just the ones that come immediately to mind. And I'm not counting hereditary monarchs such as Beatrix of the Netherlands and Margarethe of Denmark (much cooler than Elizabeth of the UK, IMHO).

[jfern]

59. This isn't helpful, please self-delete