The candidate whose message is that the system is rigged now vows to win by trying to rig the system

[bigtree]

Teddy Goff ?@teddygoff
The candidate whose message is that the system is rigged now vows to win by trying to rig the system.

[Jitter65]

1. You noticed! nt

[TheBlackAdder]

35. A clash of philosophies: Socialists take from others, while Corporatists buy people off. Who wins?

[Cal33]

45. Corporatists not only buy people off. Where do you think they got the moeny to buy people

off to begin with? By ripping off the middle-class, and in addition making them pay more
taxes that the corporatists have not paid. It's a double whammy!

[revbones]

2. First you guys say "You knew the rules when you started your campaign"

Now when he plays by them you complain too?

[morningfog]

4. Same with their pissing about caucuses and open primaries.

[hobbit709]

6. Rules only apply to you when they benefit you. When the other side uses the rules to benefit them

then all of a sudden the rules are either A. Unfair or B. Need to be changed.

[Newkularblue]

7. Ayup

Cant win for losing.

[morningfog]

3. Make the supers do what the idiotic rules say. No problem there.

Neither will get to 2,383 through pledged delegates. Since the supers will be the king makers, let's play it out.

It's a stupid ass system, but that's what we have.

[geek tragedy]

20. they do that anyways. Clinton's name was put in nomination in 2008.

But what she didn't do is lobby the superdelegates supporting Obama to change their minds.

Superdelegates won't even return Bernie's phone calls if Clinton has a majority of pledged delegates.

So very doubtful they can fight for it at the convention as the race will be decided, just a matter of a pro forma vote.

[morningfog]

22. Oh I have no doubt about the result, barring something spectacular

and unforeseeable, but one thing I like about a party outsider running is exposing some of the issues with the nomination process.

[geek tragedy]

26. hard to see what Sanders would accomplish other than

making him a figure of scorn inside the party and a laughingstock outside it.

You'd start seeing him compared to Glenn Close's character from Fatal Attraction.

And he would gain zero concessions on anything.

I don't think he's crazy, so I don't see that happening.

[thesquanderer]

40. re: "But what she didn't do is lobby the superdelegates supporting Obama to change their minds. "

Are you sure?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/clinton-sends-letter-to-superdelegates/

[geek tragedy]

43. that was before the states had finished voting and before Obama had a majority of delegates

Timeline:

May 20: Obama clinches majority of pledged delegates (pending the Michigan/Florida shitshows)
June 4: last state votes, Obama reaches majority of all delegates with big number of superdelegate endorsements.
June 7: Clinton drops out, endorses Obama
June 27: Clinton makes campaign appearance with Obama
August 25-28: Democratic convention

[thesquanderer]

48. Oh, I see what you mean...

...she didn't lobby the SDs *after* the point where there were no more pledged delegates to be had, and he had more of them than she did.

I guess it remains to be seen whether or not the Sanders campaign will actually do this, regardless of what they're saying today. It may depend on the particular circumstances at the time.

Of course, it's all moot if Hillary can get enough pledged delegates to make it a non-issue.

[reformist2]

5. Stop worrying, you guys. You have the #MATH on your side! LOL

[npk]

8. Playing by the rules of the current system = rigging the system

Bernie daring to stand up to the Clintons and their powerful friends is just not how this was supposed to go.

[bigtree]

10. same argument Hillary would make in her own defense

...

[Land Shark]

9. It's not inconsistent at all to work existing system while advocating change

[bigtree]

12. it is when you're railing full tilt against that system

...some might call it hypocritical.

[Land Shark]

18. How do you change from the Outside then? Are you advocating violence?

Or just begging?

[SusanCalvin]

29. Bingo. nt

[bigtree]

34. this isn't about 'change'

...it's about a delusion of entitlement and privilege.

Enlisting party insiders to overturn the will of a majority of voters is an anathema to democracy and progressive change.

[Land Shark]

38. Ok so you don't have a plan for change, onoy wish to allege delusion against some who do?

[bigtree]

42. this isn't about change

...it's politics as usual from the 'change' candidate.

[Land Shark]

44. ...it's about bigtree and senseless repetition, I guess.

You are making no sense at all, sorry bigtree. I can onoy guess that you have a pet peeve that irks you but I can't see what it is

[thesquanderer]

39. I don't think it's hypocritical to play by the rules even if you don't agree with them.

A lot of people think the mortgage tax deduction isn't a great idea. But that doesn't stop them from taking the deduction if they are eligible for it, either.

[Cal Carpenter]

11. No, he is working within the bounds of the system

Not rigging it.

I would think that trying (or expecting) to win without the required amount of delegates (not the 'magic number' but rather the actual number required to win) would be closer to 'rigging' it.

[bigtree]

13. working to undermine the actual vote

....with the help of political insiders.

Not very revolutionary.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

15. That was the rules...

I feel like it was before the Wisconsin Primary that we were told that the math is impossible because the Supers wouldn't switch even if we won the pledge delegate lead... so please go pound sand.

[Cal Carpenter]

32. He is participating in the system the way it works.

The way it was set up to work. The Dem party convention system allows and even encourages thwarting the popular vote. Every four years. That's how it works.

If you are expecting me to defend the notion that Sanders is a revolutionary, I'm afraid you are dead wrong. I have never and will never do so.

I'm not going to argue with you over things I never said. Trying to put words in my mouth or thoughts in my head is bullshit bait and I'm not biting.

My point was that he is not rigging anything, and that point still stands.

[bigtree]

36. pointing out that manipulating party insiders to overturn a majority vote isn't revolutionary

..has nothing to do with what you believe. It's just an observation about the contradiction in that aim with the supposed ethic of the Sanders campaign to spark a 'people's revolution.'

It's more than likely Hillary will lead in both the popular vote and in delegates. Overturning that accomplishment isn't what the Democratic convention is designed for.

[CrowCityDem]

14. There's that honorable guy again...

Telling voters they don't matter or get a say if they don't pick him.

[RashaMZak]

47. Kinda like the Hillary superdelegates who state they won't Sanders even if he won

the majority of pledged delegates?

[vintx]

16. MATH!!1!!!!1!

BAWK!

[Kalidurga]

17. Beep beep

[geek tragedy]

19. they can't be this crazy. this has to be an act. nt

[scscholar]

27. Or just his true colors...

coming through.

[geek tragedy]

28. if he were to do this

there would be a lot of speculation about his mental state

[DemocracyDirect]

21. I think having the super-delegates line up behind a candidate before the primary has started...

... is a rigged system.

So of course we'll fight it.

[SusanCalvin]

30. Bingo. nt

[uponit7771]

23. REVOLUTION DAMMIT!!!

[Fumesucker]

24. Thanks for reminding me, I haven't made a donation in hours

[frylock]

25. More herp and less derp.

Thanks.

[salinsky]

31. The purity candidate is defiling himself more and more ...

... with every passing day.

[tech3149]

33. Oh how I wish we could get beyond this pissing contest and understand some basic facts

I've listened to Sanders for more than a decade and he was more than happy to serve the country without garnering any accolades or fame. It's understandable that someone who hasn't had him on their radar that he just goes out there and does the job for the people can't get that.

I couldn't even count the times callers implored him to run for president. He wasn't interested, he felt he was capable of doing more in the House and then the Senate.
When the Draft Warren cry went up he stated without question that if any other progressive candidate ran he wouldn't even think of it.

Sanders is dealing with the ultimate pragmatic choice that we have to live with as citizens and voters. We have a two party system and if you don't run within that framework, you're just noise.
What is our job? Our job is to kick the party in the ass to wake them up or take them over.
Sanders is playing the game as it is and maintaining his integrity. It's up to us to change the playing field to something that is not so drastically out of balance.

[Vinca]

37. How, exactly, is trying to convince delegates to vote for you rigging the system?

That's the mode of election established by the party. I fear Hillary supporters expected a coronation and since it isn't taking place it's kind of sour grapes.

[ibegurpard]

41. how the hell do you get rigging the system out of that???

Rigging the system means you've fixed the outcome ahead of time...

[Nanjeanne]

46. ...

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