Bernie Sanders’ Campaign Manager Just Blamed Hillary For ISIS

[MrWendel]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bernie-sanders-campaign-manager-just-blamed-hillary-for-isis/

by Tommy Christopher



Well, this might be a tough one to walk back. In the aftermath of a feud that started when Bernie Sanders thought he heard Hillary Clinton say he was “quote-unquote not qualified to be president,” Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver isn’t just doubling down on the attack, he’s flipping over the table and slapping the pit boss. In an interview with CNN’s Carol Costello Thursday morning, Weaver stood by the Senator’s “not qualified” attacks on Hillary Clinton, and added a new item to the list that Sanders ticked off last night: the rise and expansion of ISIS.

Yes, that happened:

(More with vid in link)

[Trust Buster]

1. That was an excerpt from an earlier interview he did. Only the Republicans make this claim.

Everyone else knows that Bush and Cheney broke Iraw and released ISIS's leader from custody.

[kaleckim]

19. So, policies

she supported in Iraq, Syria and Libya didn't contribute to the spread of jihadis?

[kristopher]

48. How did it go? "We came, we saw, he died! Hahahahahaha!"

Isn't that what Hillary said?

How one major failure allowed ISIS to exploit the chaos in its newest hotspot

Pamela Engel
Jan. 27, 2016, 12:01 PM 2,406 3
ISIS LibyaReuters
An Islamic State militant holds a gun while standing behind what are said to be Ethiopian Christians in Wilayat Fazzan, in this still image from an undated video made available on a social media website on April 19, 2015.
Five years after the fall of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, the country has plunged into chaos, allowing extremist groups to rise up in place of the dictator's brutal regime.

The failure to establish a unity government that includes both rival governments fighting for power in Libya has led the terrorist group ISIS (also known as the Islamic State, ISIL, or Daesh) to exploit the power vacuum and take control of territory in the country, a new report from strategic security firm The Soufan Group notes. And Al Qaeda has also used the situation in Libya to its advantage...

http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-libya-rise-2016-1

[leveymg]

62. Not so. HRC and Petraeus pushed regime change in Libya and Syria, creating an IS base territory

Previous to 2011, ISIS was a footnote that did not control significant territory. With the involvement of the US in coordination with other powers in military and paramilitary operation to overthrow the central gov'ts of Libya and Syria, that group along with al-Qaeda affiliates funded and armed by Qatar and Saudi Arabia established the Caliphate in the Levant region. That area expanded so that by late 2012 it included areas of eastern Syria and adjoining Iraq, spreading also to eastern Libya long dominated by Islamist extremists. The Libyan militias operate across the region with heavy weapons looted from Gadhaffi's stockpiles, which have been sold on blackmarkets globally. Hundreds of thousands died because of this program of serial regime change. Millions of people fled. ISIS became a global threat.

The regime change program led by Petraeus' CIA and State under Clinton resulted in destabilization of the entire region, A catastrophe.

It's not just Bush and Cheney's war anymore, and it isn't just Republicans who acknowledge this unfortunate reality.

[Motown_Johnny]

2. She never should have given that 19 minute speech in favor of the Iraq War.

Nor should she have lobbied other (D) Senators to vote for the IWR.

Nor should she have voted for it herself.


She is the very worst (D) on this subject. No, she isn't just one of a group who voted that way. She was the one pushing it.

Other than the minimum Constitutional qualifications, she really isn't qualified to be Commander In Chief.

[me b zola]

35. I believe that it was the toppling of Libya that lead to the creation of ISIS

...and undermining Syria has not helped.

[Motown_Johnny]

45. She has made so many mistakes...

getting hard to keep them all straight.

[me b zola]

61. No doubt for her too

I would do a laughing smiley here, but her mistakes cost untold thousands of lives.

It seems like she is on the wrong side of every important issue . Of course she re-writes history for the audience that she is speaking to.

[blm]

64. Daesh (what corpmedia calls ISIS) formed in Bush's torture prisons in Iraq c2004-5.

RW propaganda claims it formed because Obama pulled out of Iraq.

Some claim it formed in Libya.

Bushes always benefit when propaganda takes hold.

[CajunBlazer]

43. Did you read or listen to the fricking speech?!?!?!?

Either you didn't or you are being totally disingenuous!

[Motown_Johnny]

49. One of us is.

How about this one minute pile of bull shit?

Or if you want to watch the entire 19 minutes of it...

You really want this person to be Commander In Chief?

I know I don't.

[CajunBlazer]

68. Were you asleep during this time period or just too young to pay attention?

The intelligence networks are part of the executive branch of the United State Government. At the time Senators and Representatives, including those on the Senate and House Intelligence Committee, were being spoon feed the intelligence reports which the Bush administration wanted them to see. It has long ago been proven that the administration held back reports from those within the intelligence community which cast doubt on the validity of the reports which Chaney and Rumsfeld were showing the world and gave to Powell before sending him to our allies to ask them join us in the invasion.

To try to share the blame that rightfully belongs to Bush, Chaney and Rumsfeld and others in the administration with the Senators and Representative which voted on the resolution to give the President the power to go to war IF NEGOTIATIONS FAILED is totally ridiculous.

I you listened to the Hillary entire speech before the Senate voted, I have, you would already know that she spent a great deal of time making it clear that she was voting for the resolution so that Bush would have the negotiating power to bring and end to the solution peace and that she expected the Bush administration to use the power that the vote gave to go to war only as as a last resort.

Instead, the Bush administration misused that power to rush to war.

In addition, Bernie Sanders is a hypocrite of the highest order. He supported 100% John Kerry's bid for the White House without once mentioning the Kerry also voted yes on the same resolution. That's what hypocritical politicians do; they they pretend to get all worked up about an issue when it is convenient when in the past they seem to be totally untroubled by the same issue. Many of his supporters act like he is saint when in fact Bernie is no better than every other disingenuous politician out there.

[Ned_Devine]

76. Kerry was the nominee then. Were you asleep during this time period or just too young to pay...

...attention?

[latebloomer]

91. Any conscious person knew that Bush was going to war

She voted for war. No one thought Bush would be negotiating anything. Millions of people were out in the streets all over the world trying to prevent this atrocity. People were camped out at her New York office begging her not to vote for it. Yet she persisted.

[CajunBlazer]

92. It sounds like you know it all, no use trying to convince you otherwise

[frylock]

101. When I see someone get this defensive about IWR..

I have to believe that they bought into Bush's bullshit as well.

[CajunBlazer]

102. Well, you are dead wrong as well as disingenuous

[frylock]

105. Oh, okay.

[roody]

104. Millions of us in the streets knew better.

[PowerToThePeople]

60. She could have been a strong voice for good

She chose to defended evil.

[awake]

3. Well Hillary and every one else who voted for Bush's war

She is not alone but she does have "blood on her hands" for the lack of foresight voting for the Iraq war which lead to the forming os ISIS

[MFM008]

10. Bush lied to the world

sent Powell out there with false evidence. They lied. lied, lied.
If New Yorkers didn't agree, they could have voted her out.

[hobbit709]

11. She knew they were lies and voted for it anyhow.

[awake]

13. Well Obama and Bernie had the judgment to see through the lie

For Hillary it was just another mistake which she says she is now sorry for.

[Else You Are Mad]

31. The problem with using that excuse...

Is that Hillary's husband was in a very unique situation where in he would/should have known the truth of the situation since he was privy to both classified and non-classified information as president that was given to him just months prior. Hillary is really the only person outside of the Bush cabinet that should have known the truth and not fallen for that lie. It is so utterly absurd that Hillary says she believes that lie.

[RoccoR5955]

37. Believe me I would have voted Clinton out, along with a lot of us

But the alternative was worse. John Spencer, the former Mayor of Yonkers. A bible thumpin' unknown.

[DFab420]

4. I mean he's not wrong.

She supported the Iraq war.

She supported the ousting of Gaddahfi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant_in_Libya

Following the 2011 Libyan Civil War, which resulted in the ousting of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi and his government, many rebel fighters went to Syria to fight alongside militant groups who were fighting Bashar al-Assad and his loyalists in the Syrian Civil War.[20] In 2012, one group of Libyans fighting in Syria declared the establishment of the Battar Brigade. The Battar Brigade would later pledge loyalty to ISIL, and fight for it in both Syria and Iraq.[21]

In the spring of 2014, up to 300 Battar Brigade veterans returned to Libya. In Derna, they formed a new faction called the Islamic Youth Shura Council, which began recruiting militants from other local groups. Among the joinees were many members of the Derna branch of Ansar al-Sharia.[22][21] During the next few months, they declared war on anyone in Derna who opposed them, killing judges, civic leaders and other opponents, including local militants who rejected their authority such as the al-Qaeda-allied Abu Salim Martyrs Brigade.[12]

[Armstead]

5. Nothin new there...Only an embarassment to Clinton

The Iraq War did lead to the rise of Isis.

Policies like regime change in Libya strengthened Isis

These are not embarrassing statements to anyone but Clinton

[Lucinda]

6. KNR

[Sheepshank]

7. Well of course he did....did he remember to blame her for Fukashima, Aids and Sandy Hook too? n/t

[Dem2]

8. Lol

I hear people blaming Sanders' supporters for some of these crazy theories about Hillary.

Nope, the insanity comes right from the top of the organization.

(shakes head in disbelief)

[tex-wyo-dem]

36. You mean crazy theories like...

She's being investigated and likely to be interviewed by the FBI?

(nope, that's real and verifiable)

That she voted for the IWR and pushed for the overthrow of Qaddafi, both contributing factors to the formation and strengthening of ISIS?

(nope, that's real and verifiable)

...

You mean that "insanity"?

...

[kaleckim]

21. Absurd

Think before you post.

[AzDar]

29. Nah. That was sHillary blaming Bernie for Sandy Hook...and she deservedly got her ass handed to her.

[RoccoR5955]

39. I wish I could blame her for the Noahician Deluge

But I am not a liar, as some of us are.

[Motown_Johnny]

51. Did she lobby for the war that created any of those problems?

If not, well then..... not really a fair comparison, it is?

[frylock]

9. Did Blumenthal not congratulate her in one of those deleted emails..

for pushing Obama into taking action in Libya and assisting in Gaddafi's ouster? And didn't that ouster create a safe haven for ISIS in Libya?

[Avalux]

17. Yes. I think maybe her supporters have amnesia on that one. n/t

[frylock]

18. But this is all part of Hillary's vast foreign policy experience they keep touting.

Why would they want to downplay Hillary's accomplishments at State?

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. Judicial Watch (polly wants a cracker)

At times now I just laugh.

[CanadaexPat]

12. Facts are attacks when they're uncomfortable reality

now?

Edit: and you're right - that happened.

[NWCorona]

14. How is he wrong?

Iraq and Libya nothing else needs to be said.

[RiverLover]

47. [phone]

We need to wake up on many issues. This is a BIG one.

[Avalux]

15. Well, taking out Gaddafi certainly helped the rise and expansion of ISIS.

Hillary owns that one. Look how happy she was about it!

[reddread]

80. that video should be on redtube

[MrWendel]

16. I mean...

Trump of all people didn't go there. He blamed Bush.

[kaleckim]

23. Shocking

that a fascist wouldn't go there. Doubly shocking that a socialist would mention this obvious truism. The policies she supported did help lead to ISIS. This isn't debatable.

[Bill USA]

20. as they become more desperate the more outrageous the charges become. Isolationism is not

a viable position for the most powerful nation in the World to take.

[tex-wyo-dem]

42. Isolationism is one thing...

Voting for and supporting blowing the shit out of countries and overthrowing governments unleashing the predictable backlash of ISIS and terrorism is totally another.

I think Bernie has the good sense to find the more reasonable middle ground.

[Sheepshank]

65. Bernie voted to fund it all...he is complicit n/t

[imagine2015]

22. The invasion of Iraq in fact did open the door to terrorist organizations.

And the invasion of Libya and arming of so-called "democratic resistance" outfits in Syria sure didn't help. They turned over U.S. provided arms to ISIS!

The interventionist middle east policies pursued by George W. Bush and later by Hillary Clinton have been a total disaster.

Her foreign policy pro-war "experience" is a huge negative.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. See IWR vote and consequences for evidence.

[Prism]

25. Her awful Middle East votes, policies, and arguments did help lead to ISIS

This isn't even really arguable at this point.

What's odd is that Hillary supporters are "scandalized" by this assertion.

I'd say open a history book, but these are current events. Open a friggin newspaper.

[NurseJackie]

26. They're losing it. (And I'm not talking about just the nomination.)

[tex-wyo-dem]

46. Just keep your head in the sand where it's safe...

And Hillary does no wrong.

It's a free country.

[NCTraveler]

52. +1 nt

[oasis]

27. That screwball line of thinking will come back to bite Bernie

in the April 14 debate. If he looked like he was struggling to keep it together lately, just wait and see what two more stressful weeks will do.

[2banon]

28. Well it's about damn time!

I wouldn't say she soley responsible, but she bears significant responsibility. So does Bush and Cheney for that matter.

[CajunBlazer]

38. That absolutely ridiculous!!!!

To even imply that Hillary is as responsible for the Iraq war as Bush and Cheney show a complete ignorance of the facts and a complete lack of good judgement!!! You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking that anyone, except perhaps Rumsfeld has the same level of responsibility as Bush and Cheney.

[jfern]

57. Hillary repeated all the Bush administration lies to justify voting for the war

And she voted against the Levin amendment that would have allowed a diplomatic solution.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511667627

[CajunBlazer]

70. So because she are lied to using seldective manipulation of intellegence reports....

.....when she in good faith repeats those "facts", she is the one who is guilty?!?!?! Surely you aren't saying that! Surely you have better sense than that!

You can't have it both ways! You can't say on one hand that the Bush administration mislead everyone, including Congress, in order to invade Iraq and then blame the American people and those who represented them in Washington for the lies.

Surely you are not capable of twisting good come walking around logic into a pretzel!

Were not paying attention at the time or were you just too young to notice - Bush, Chaney and Rumsfeld and their lap dog Powell had stirred the pot so much 90% of the American people were in favor of the invasion.

[jfern]

71. Most Democrats voted no

And most Democrats who voted yes didn't repeat all the lies.

[CajunBlazer]

72. 82 Democarts voted for the resoltuion

And yes they did explain their vote to their constituents.

And most of them were not Senators from New York where the tragedy of 9/11 was most deeply felt. The mood of the American people was to strike out at any enemy and the Bush administration found that very convenient since it has since been shown that they were planning to invade Iraq even before 9/11.

Again, 85% to 90% of the American supported the invasion.

Again, Bernie Sanders is a hypocrite on the issue because supported Kerry who voted exactly the same as Clinton and who repeated the same "facts".

Again, Bernie Sanders is not a saint, he is a fricking politician who pretends to be upset with the positions taken by others only when it suits him.

[jfern]

73. A majority of congressional Democrats voted no

And Kerry didn't recite all the Bush administration lies.

[CajunBlazer]

81. I am not going to argue with you, but ....

Again, 85% to 90% of the American supported the invasion.

Again, Bernie Sanders is a hypocrite on the issue because supported Kerry who voted exactly the same as Clinton and who repeated the same "facts".

Again, Bernie Sanders is not a saint, he is a fricking politician who pretends to be upset with the positions taken by others only when it suits him.

[jfern]

89. It was never that high

[CajunBlazer]

94. Wow!!!

You make some strong arguments.

[jfern]

96. Find me a poll that had it more than 75%

[beam me up scottie]

97. Where did you get those figures? Polls showed only 47 -72 % supported it.

Before the invasion in March 2003, polls showed 47-60% of the US public supported an invasion, dependent on U.N. approval.[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_opinion_in_the_United_States_on_the_invasion_of_Iraq

However, a Pew Research Center poll conducted in March 2003, as the Iraq War began, found fully 72 percent of Americans supported the war, 23 percent were opposed, and 5 percent didn’t have an opinion.

http://reason.com/poll/2014/10/16/poll-reveals-americans-supported-iraq-wa

And that's no excuse even if a majority desired vengeance.

[roody]

108. That makes we Bernie people the smart ones.

Follow our lead.

[Ned_Devine]

86. Look at this person't transparency page and move on

It ain't worth the effort

[CajunBlazer]

93. Yea, you're right...

Especially when most of those hides were on mostly harmless posts on the Hillary Clinton page by Bernie supporters who constantly lurked there in our private group looking for something to alert on. Then if the post in question said anything negative about Bernie you could on 4 to 3 or 5-2 jury vote to hid it by other Bernie supporters.

Many good Hillary supporters got kicked off of DU in exactly that manner. In many ways some of your fellow Bernie supporters acted just like the Tea Party zealots that they hate. (Look up the Horseshoe Principle when you have a chance for an explanation of the phenomenon.) Finally Skinner got tired of the abuses of the alert and jury procedures and put a halt to it.

I'm sure that you would be very proud of his most zealous "true believers" on DU.

They might have thought that Bernie would be proud of them, but in truth he is a good man and he would be very angry that this kind of devilment was done in his name.

So frankly I don't give a rat's butt what you think about my transparency record. Hillary supporters know the BS that has been going on here on DU for months and wear our transparency record a badge of honor. The only ones who don't have a bunch of hides are those who were intimidated into posting virtually nothing.

[Ned_Devine]

98. Relax man. It's a website. Maybe you should shut the computer down for a spell

[CajunBlazer]

99. Check Hillary Group and see what was posted on this subject before Skinner got involved

You will find that my comments on this subject are rather tame compared to most. You would not believe the amount of frustration among Clinton supporters with the blatant attempts by some of your colleagues to silence those who were expressing opinions they disagreed with.

I am certainly not accusing you of such behavior, but it is impossible to calculate the damage done to the Sanders campaign, not only here on DU (where only a few thousand folks are involved), but all over the internet and social media by Bernie's over zealous "true believers".

[Ned_Devine]

100. Sorry man, I'm not buying it.

You're flying off the handle in these messages with me and we're not even arguing. While you and your fellow HRC supporters are outnumbered by the Bernie supporters on DU and the internet in general, it still appears that you're the ones causing most of the ruckus and being the most over the top and rude.

[CajunBlazer]

106. It's all a matter of perspective isn't it

How could you understand when you weren't alert stalked and/or the subject of juries backed with Sanders supporters who were were more interested in silencing others than being fair.

Again, I don't think that all of Sanders supporters participated in these activities, but neither did many publicly object what was going on either. If you want to sit around and let a group of zealots, most of whom were new to DU, define your movement and your candidate a bad name, that's your problem.

[Ned_Devine]

109. Again, I see so much of what you're saying being done by your side

Whether it's new members with minimal posts rousing the rabble or people ganging up and alert stalking Sanders supporters.

[Seeinghope]

119. Sorry, but Hillary Clinton is totally responsible for her vote and the vote being made

In poor judgement or for other reasons, none of them having to do with ignorance.

I knew that the claims for going to war in Iraq was a sham. I'm not in the Government. I don't have access to all of the information that Congress and other officials have. No one in Wahington can seriously claim that they thought that there was a valid reason for going to war in Iraq.

The war destabilised an area in the ME and then going for the regime change in Libya contributed to more destabilisation. The destabilisation gives way to the birth and growth of terrorism. If you have a problem accepting that then I feel sorry for you because that is why we need to be slow to use aggression by killing and going to war in the ME. We make more problems then we solve.

[Kalidurga]

90. She does have to share the blame.

She knew it was wrong or should have unless Bill said nothing to her or he actively lied to her. And she lobbied for it. It's too bad her history on this issue is on tape. And some of us remember that vote and for some of us it meant leaving the party at least in spirit because of that vote.

[CajunBlazer]

120. Wrong, she did not "lobby for it"

And she made it very clear "on tape" that the Bush administration that the Senate was not giving the Bush administration permission, but instead was giving the President the power to negotiate from a strong position in order to settle the Iraq without going to war. View "the tapes", their can be no doubt that is exactly what she said.

Instead the Bush administration used the powers given to it to rush to war and they had the full backing of a very large majority of the American people.

Your claim that Hillary should have known from Bill that Bush was lying to everyone is at best disingenuous. Bill Clinton left office January 20, 2001. The vote on the Iraq war resolution took place October 16, 2002, almost 21 months later. Bill Clinton would never have had access to up to date secret and top secret reports on whether Saddam Hussein still had access to weapons of mass destruction. So I'm calling BS on that claim. Hillary Clinton like everyone else in congress had only access to Bush's lies.

To try to spread the blame for the actions of the Bush administration to the 83 Democratic Congressmen including Hilary and John Kerry who voted for the proposal is imply that everyone involved knew that the Bush administration was lying to them and they went along anyway. That in itself is a lie and you know it.

And even if all of that were true, why did Bernie Sanders fully support John Kerry for the Presidency without once mentioning his vote on the Iraq war proposal, but is castigating Hillary for that same vote now that it it suits his needs. Those my friend is the actions of a hypocrite.

[PyaarRevolution]

30. Iraq was the spark and most of the oxygen.

But Hillary didn't help when we see in those emails she supported throwing out Quaddafi instead of supporting Sayyid Quaddafi's push towards Democracy. That conflict helped Isil then when you throw in Hillary wanting to bomb Syria to hell or something to that effect in the emails...that right there is damning.
Because of stoking the flames of conflict in Syria, giving Isil the opening to seize territory. Knowing this I don't think we can completely blame Isil for the destruction of Palmyra, it's just as much on her head, that a piece of human history has been destroyed.

[CajunBlazer]

32. Jeff Weaver should go back to running his comic book store

He might be qualified for that position.

He looks like an egg head with a beard (literally) but he really loves comic books.

[Else You Are Mad]

33. To those that say Bush lied...

Sad to inform you guys that believe Hillary fell for Bush's lies, but her husband, Bill Clinton, was president a few months prior to 911 & was privy to intelligence information that had shown Bush was lying. If Hillary did not consult her husband before voting for the Iraq war, you are blind. She knew Bush was lying or, if she didn't, she was negligent in not asking her husband, the prior president, to see if the info she was provided synced up with his intelligence provided to him by his non-bush cabinet.

If you believe that

[wiltom99]

34. #WhoopsHillary

[Zen Democrat]

40. If we had not invaded Iraq and destroyed Saddam and the Iraqi Guard, there would be no ISIS.

Hillary Clinton voted FOR the war in Iraq.
Ergo, Hillary Clinton is partially responsible for the rise of ISIS.
As is EVERY voter for that awful debacle.
But no one is more responsible than Evil Dick Cheney who set it all up.
And Stupid George who wanted to avenge his father, and be a big shot.

But there were Democrats who voted NO on the invasion of Iraq.
They are the true heroes.
Bernie was one of them in the House.
In the Senate there were many votes against:

Akaka, Daniel (D-HI)
Bingaman, Jeff (D-NM)
Boxer, Barbara (D-CA)
Byrd, Robert (D-WV)
Conrad, Kent (D-ND)
Corzine, Jon (D-NJ)
Dayton, Mark (D-MN)
Durbin, Dick (D-IL)
Feingold, Russ (D-WI)
Graham, Bob (D-FL)
Inouye, Daniel (D-HI)
Kennedy, Edward (D-MA)
Leahy, Patrick (D-VT)
Levin, Carl (D-MI)
Mikulski, Barbara (D-MD)
Murray, Patty (D-WA)
Reed, Jack (D-RI)
Sarbanes, Paul (D-MD)
Stabenow, Debbie (D-MI)
Wellstone, Paul (D-F-L-MN)
Wyden, Ron (D-OR)

Hillary was not among them.

[Bjornsdotter]

59. Funny how that list

...is always forgotten.

[Bill USA]

41. of course, BS supporters think voting for the resolution meant HRC sat in on the Military planning &

direction of the war for Bush.

[NCTraveler]

44. Weaver really is an idiot.

He questioned the results of Iowa and in the same breath said he didn't know the caucus rules. He is Rahm without the brains.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Anybody who has been paying attention

Knows that she did help.

So they went under the belt and now they are getting hit back with the Iraq vote. (And a few other things)

Alas this is Tuesday in US politics.

[reddread]

78. forbidden thoughts

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. I cover this shit

And the rule of thumb is... the more of a media (and partisan) driven scandal, the less actual voters pay attention to it. I have been told this in the field. People could not care less for the in the belt way or city hall scandals, Though from time to time there is a real one... Mayor Bob Filner learned that the hard way, and yes for that one people cared.

[reddread]

84. if the local politicians received real scrutiny

you could uproot a lot of corruption.
the corporate media sells their silence
cut rate.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. Agreed, that is why we try

but I read the budget, and the number of hits are like nowhere to be found. There was a time that a line item on the budget brought administrations down. Oh but mention a lost doggie, or a kitteh up a tree... did you say squirrel? So I have tested that theory... and I find generally speaking the voters are well trained.

[reddread]

87. trained is right, stupified, disenfranchised

people blame this assault on their interests
on ratings.
untrue and perhaps the BIGGEST of lies.
and then they pay their cable bill.

I dont think you see the same sociopolitical
cultural mentality, low brow propaganda overdosed
hateful indifference in countries with greater freedom
and awareness.

We need to reclaim the FCC

[basselope]

53. And she isn't responsible because.....

[MrWendel]

54. Soooo....

if Bernie voted to keep troops in Afghanistan, does that make him responsible too?

[basselope]

55. No.

Because that isn't where the problem started or where it grew from.

It grew out of Iraq and was further fueled by the idiotic decision in Libya.

[MrWendel]

75. And yet....

this didn't add gas to the fire, because you would have to blame Barack as well as Bernie and that's a non-starter.

[basselope]

77. I do blame Barack.

I blame him for picking someone so incompetent to be Secretary of State... but I guess that is the deal that had to be made to avoid the convention fight. I blame him for following too much of the bush doctrine. I blame him for the mess that is the ACA because he lost us the the public option in a backdoor deal with private hospitals.

[MrWendel]

112. Good...

at least we can get that purity test out of the way.

[basselope]

113. Its not a purity test to ask for a candidate to have good judgment.

It's sad when a moron like trump had better judgment that the temporary democratic front runner.

[MrWendel]

115. Lets be real,

its a purity test, and like Trump its directly out of the Tea Party playbook. It amazes me you give Trump props at all.

[basselope]

116. Let's be real.

It's a judgment test and yes, if trump is right about something, I will give him credit for it. He was against the Iraq war from day 1 and he was right.

He's otherwise is a complete loon, but the fact that a complete loon could figure it out and she couldn't speaks to her qualifications.

Maybe SOME (not me), but SOME would forgive her deplorable Iraq war vote if she didn't repeat the exact same mistake again with Libya.

How sad is it to be on the wrong side of a issue against TRUMP?? I mean.. come on.

[MrWendel]

117. Hindsight is 20/20...

but I won't admire and pat him on the back for it. But Sanders had no problem keeping troops in Iraq and I have no problem criticising Obama for that.

[basselope]

118. Hindsight is how we discover judgment and abilities.

If you were choosing doctors and had a choice between one with a history of losing malpractice cases or one with a clean record, it would be an easy choice.

And no, Sanders did have a problem with keeping troops in Iraq; however, once they are there... explain to us how we are supposed to not give them the equipment they need to survive. It is such a nonsensical point to which the Clinton camp is forced to resort. If he didn't vote for "funding" it wasn't like they were going to come home the next day.. they were just going to die faster b/c people like Clinton sent them there.

So yeah.. Trump was right, Clinton was wrong.

Neither of them are qualified to be president.

[jfern]

56. ISIS exists because of foreign policy like hers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251816004

[Locrian]

74. not just ISIS - the whole neolib policy is clinton gospel - nt

[betsuni]

58. He said Hillary "made a deal with the devil"

What the hell.

[WDIM]

63. Clinton's support of PNAC policies

Did lead directly to the formation of ISIL

[Scuba]

66. I knew Bush would go to war, and that the war was based on lies. Why didn't Hillary?

I can't imagine any defense of her actions that don't disaqualify her from getting my vote.

[jillan]

67. If you don't think her f-ing up Libya AGAINST Obama's wishes didn't add to the growth of Isis, you

really are not paying attention.

[Cheese Sandwich]

69. Finally. It's about time we talked about this.

[Kip Humphrey]

79. Yep. Hawkish foreign policy, that IS what led to ISIS.

Speaking truth to power is Bernie Sanders, as well as informing us and sometimes warning us of the consequences of bad actions.

[tirebiter]

88. Everyone says the Libya intervention was a failure. They’re wrong.

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/5/11363288/libya-intervention-success

Of course, Libya, as anyone can see, is a mess, and Americans are reasonably asking if the intervention was a mistake. But just because it’s reasonable doesn’t make it right.

Most criticisms of the intervention, even with the benefit of hindsight, fall short. It is certainly true that the intervention didn’t produce something resembling a stable democracy. This, however, was never the goal. The goal was to protect civilians and prevent a massacre.

Critics erroneously compare Libya today to any number of false ideals, but this is not the correct way to evaluate the success or failure of the intervention. To do that, we should compare Libya today to what Libya would have looked like if we hadn’t intervened. By that standard, the Libya intervention was successful: The country is better off today than it would have been had the international community allowed dictator Muammar Qaddafi to continue his rampage across the country.

Critics further assert that the intervention caused, created, or somehow led to civil war. In fact, the civil war had already started before the intervention began. As for today’s chaos, violence, and general instability, these are more plausibly tied not to the original intervention but to the international community’s failures after intervention.

The very fact that the Libya intervention and its legacy have been either distorted or misunderstood is itself evidence of a warped foreign policy discourse in the US, where anything short of success — in this case, Libya quickly becoming a stable, relatively democratic country — is viewed as a failure.

NATO intervened to protect civilians, not to set up a democracy


I still remember how I felt in those last days and hours as Qaddafi’s forces marched toward Benghazi. In a quite literal sense, every moment mattered, and the longer we waited, the greater the cost.

It was frightening to watch. I didn’t want to live in an America where we would stand by silently as a brutal dictator — using that distinct language of genocidaires — announced rather clearly his intentions to kill. In one speech, Qaddafi called protesters "cockroaches" and vowed to cleanse Libya "inch by inch, house by house, home by home, alleyway by alleyway."

[polly7]

110. Steaming pile. nt.

[tokenlib]

95. So, is there a problem? I mean her brother or her vote for her brother's war?

..pretty much the same thing in the end..

[chillfactor]

103. it figures...

there are some really nasty spoke persons in the bernie camp

[silvershadow]

107. Of course! I do to! Duh. It is obvious that she voted for the war, which gave rise to ISIS.

Spare me any attempt to distance herself from that vote. Everyone else on earth knew what would happen. Before it did,I might add. Roll the tapes.

[cherokeeprogressive]

111. Not 100% right - Not 100% wrong.

Over the last eight years there has been nothing in Middle East policy with the intent of preventing the rise and expansion of ISIS.

Claiming Clinton is solely responsible is like claiming the death of a butterfly in the middle ages led to hostilities in WWII.

There is however, an apropos cliche... it begins with "For want of a nail..."

[LostOne4Ever]

114. Truth hurts nt