ADL Calls on Sen. Bernie Sanders to Correct Misstatement on Palestinian Casualties During Gaza War

[ericson00]

Bernie Sanders recently accused Israel of killing 10,000 Palestinians in Gaza, which is a seriously inflated number, and lacks distinction between terrorists and civilians. The Anti-Defamation League has taken notice:

he Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today called on presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders to correct his misstatements regarding the 2014 conflict between Israel and the terrorist group Hamas. In an interview with the editorial board of the New York Daily News, Senator Sanders said, “I believe 100 percent not only in Israel's right to exist, a right to exist in peace and security without having to face terrorist attacks.”
....
“Even the highest number of casualties claimed by Palestinian sources that include Hamas members engaged in attacking Israel is five times less than the number cited by Bernie Sanders,” said Jonathan A. Greenblatt, ADL CEO. “As Mr. Sanders publicly discusses his approach to key U.S. foreign policy priorities, including Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, accuracy and accountability are essential for the voting public, but also for U.S. credibility in the international community. We urge Senator Sanders to correct his misstatements.”

It's sad that Bernie has pandered to what is clearly a fringe in America: anti-Israel types. Thankfully, this could hurt him badly in New York in the coming week, which is 10% Jewish, and home to distinguished Sen Chuck Schumer.

Lying about things like this disqualify you to be President.

[mythology]

1. Blood libel is a really loaded phrase

Also it's inaccurate to try to link not thinking Israel is perfect to being antisemitic. One can easily disagree with actions of the state of Israel and not dislike Jewish people or even the existence of the state of Israel.

[dr60omg]

56. Thank you and he did not say blood libel and that is part of the point

And the ADL? Please

[Behind the Aegis]

66. The only people saying "blood libel" in this thread are you two.

I made reference to it in my remarks below, which is before you chimed in to the thread.

AS for the ADL, given your seemingly snide remark, you obviously don't know/don't care what the ADL is and prefer to cling to a fantasy it is a right-wing organization, when it is anything but. One doesn't have to agree with any or every remark they make about Israel, but to categorize them as "right-wing" is only done by those so far on the left, that everything is right-wing to them.

[msanthrope]

2. Won't play well in NY for Sanders. nt

[ericson00]

6. GOOD! Bernie got blown away in Florida for many of the same reasons

and NY should be a spectacle to see him ruined. Chuck Schumer, Steve Israel, and others will come out in force to extinguish the Bern.

[dr60omg]

59. Yes, it is good for people like YOU to try and make this split greater anti-semite much?

This is insulting to those of us who are Jewish and don't fall in lockstep with right wing notions of pre dispensational millennialism and the evangelical right with the help of the hardline Israeli right wing to help continue to make sure that for the first time in history Jews are separated from other Jews.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

3. I agree with him...

We need a two state solution and Isreal needs to leave the Palestinian people alone. Furthermore we need to kick the Israelites out of our foriegn policy. Another country doesn't get to dictate our foreign policy

[ericson00]

4. nobody disagrees with a two-state solution.

but delegitimizing the only free country in the Middle East, per Freedom House, and only reliable ally there (who we don't have to worry about coups with), is unpresidential.

Also, "Israelites" is a biblical term, "Israeli" is the correct term. Good thing your idea about "Kicking [Israeis] out of our foreign policy" or claiming "they" dictate it is a lie.




Supporting Israel a grassroots thing among the American people of all stripes except fringe types, like Bernie.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

7. Not wrong...

Haim Saban is very right wing pro-Isreal financier of Hillary's campaign that wants the US to act in Syria

[ericson00]

8. if he were right-wing, he'd be for Cruz

but he's not. He's pro-choice, pro-LGB rights, pro-environment, etc.

Haim Saban is a gem to our political environment that will help us defeat the Kochs, Adelson, etc.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

11. Right winger in terms of war... Duh

We weren't talking about social issues we were discussing wars Isreal wants us to fight for them

[ericson00]

14. if you wanna continue to spell Israel wrong,

I can spell Terrorstine wrong too.

What wars does Israel actually want us to fight for them? Also, there is more than one issue you know, that shapes whether a person is left/right wing.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

16. Wow insulting me over a misspelling...

I think I'll bow out here... Not worth the aggravation

[leftynyc]

10. So anyone who is a strong supporter

of Israel is an Israelite? I think you should contact Bernie and tell him that.

[azurnoir]

24. as is Mort Zuckerman who owns the NYDN

[dr60omg]

57. YOU don't get it which shows you are NOT Jewish and certainly not Israeli

[msanthrope]

9. "Isrealites?"

[ericson00]

17. heck, he just further justified Zionism if he's acknowledging that Israeli Jews

are indeed, descended from the Israelites (as archeological evidence has shown Israel to be the legitimate heir to Israel.)

[oberliner]

13. But he said that 10,000 civilians were killed in Gaza in 2014

The actual number is under 2,000.

That is quite a significant difference.

[oberliner]

34. "we need to kick the Israelites out of our foreign policy"

What the hell does that mean?

[Sunlei]

53. "We" don't get to decide the 2'state'. We're not going to 'kick out' an Ally either.

al·ly1



noun

noun: ally; plural noun: allies

/ˈalī/



1.


a state formally cooperating with another for a military or other purpose, typically by treaty.



•a person or organization that cooperates with or helps another in a particular activity.
"he was forced to dismiss his closest political ally"


synonyms: associate, colleague, friend, confederate, partner, supporter; informalpeeps
"close political allies"



antonyms: enemy, opponent



•a group of nations taking military action together, in particular the countries that fought with the US in World War I and World War II.
plural noun: Allies; plural noun: the Allies

[hobbit709]

5. About the only claims that haven't been used against Bernie is "mopery and dopery on the spaceways"

Camp Weathervane is not only throwing the kitchen sink, but also the crap in the bottom of the garbage disposal.

[msanthrope]

12. The long knives are out. Tad Devine couldn't handle the swiftboaters, he sure as

Hell can't handle this..... bluntly it's his fault that Bernie was so unprepared for his daily news interview.

[Gwhittey]

32. He was the whole interview was a full of bullshit questions

For example
"Okay, while we were sitting here, I double-checked the facts. It's the miracle of the iPhone. My recollection was correct. It was about 2,300, I believe, killed, and 10,000 wounded. President Obama has taken the authority for drone attacks away from the CIA and given it to the U.S. military. Some say that that has caused difficulties in zeroing in on terrorists, their ISIS leaders. Do you believe that he's got the right policy there?"

That is what is called a bullshit question. Most of them are like that. Why do you ask if that is bullshit question? Because it is asking Sanders a question about something Obama never did. And of coarse Sanders being honest said I can't answer that question. Because you would assume a New editor would not be lying to you with questions.

[oberliner]

35. No it wasn't

It was actually a great interview and Bernie himself pointed out several times how good he thought the questions were.

The question you cited above is a totally legitimate one to ask, and answering by saying I can't answer that question is a totally legitimate response.

[oberliner]

15. I am curious to know where he got his incorrect information from

He put out a number that is five times higher than the actual number. I think many people have a similar misconception.

I am wondering where Bernie got the idea that 10,000 Palestinian civilians were killed in 2014 when the actual figure is under 2,000.

[Fozzledick]

30. Looks to me like he misremembered total "casualties" (injured) as total killed.

But even so, what the hell was he thinking?

[beedle]

18. Huh??

Here's the transcript of the conversation in question:

Daily News: Do you support the Palestinian leadership's attempt to use the International Criminal Court to litigate some of these issues to establish that, in their view, Israel had committed essentially war crimes?

Sanders: No.

Daily News: Why not?

Sanders: Why not?

Daily News: Why not, why it...

Sanders: Look, why don't I support a million things in the world? I'm just telling you that I happen to believe...anybody help me out here, because I don't remember the figures, but my recollection is over 10,000 innocent people were killed in Gaza. Does that sound right?

Daily News: I think it's probably high, but we can look at that.

Sanders: I don't have it in my number...but I think it's over 10,000. My understanding is that a whole lot of apartment houses were leveled. Hospitals, I think, were bombed. So yeah, I do believe and I don't think I'm alone in believing that Israel's force was more indiscriminate than it should have been.

Daily News: Okay. We will check the facts. I don't want to venture a number that I'm not sure on, but we will check those facts. Now, talk about Hamas. What is it? Is it a terrorist organization?

Sanders: Yes.

Daily News: Okay. Hezbollah too?

Sanders: Yes.

Pretty mild and Sanders actually asked to be 'helped out' with the proper numbers and no one, not even the people asking the question, knew the real number.

I

[Kip Humphrey]

27. But he's pandering to anti-Israel forces! Can't you see? The old jew hates Israel! Oh, except he

doesn't and he isn't (pandering). If nothing else does, this OP points out the innate dishonesty and bigotry of some Hillarians.

[beedle]

28. Yeah,

if there's anything we know for sure it's that the "worst anti-Semite" is a "Semite" that respects Palestinian lives. Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein: What do they know about being Jews? LOL

[oberliner]

37. There was no mention of anti-semitism

Or about being Jews.

[dr60omg]

61. Thank you Beedle keep going they are all over we even have a new Passover symbol

Hint to those who do not get it there are new Passover symbols since it is coming up this month

For example in the Forward is an editorial written by JVP http://forward.com/opinion/172963/put-olive-on-seder-plate-for-palestinians-and-all/

[dr60omg]

60. Thank you Kip Humphrey

I am disgusted by this stuff ... .He is not pandering he represents the vast majority of American Jews those who have grown disgusted with this whole Israel first nonsense

[oberliner]

33. The person asking the question provided the real number

A little bit later in the interview. Bernie did not appear to respond in any way to the corrected figure.

The person immediately said that the number provided by Bernie seemed high, per the excerpt you cited.

Bernie was the one who offered an actual number in the first place (he was not asked to provide a figure, nor was he asked any question that would have necessitated him to do so).

If Bernie is going to give an actual number, he ought to have a better idea of what that number might roughly be. His figure was over six times the actual one.

[Jitter65]

19. Blame it all on Hillary. That is all. nt

[still_one]

38. I am sorry, but I have to disagree. The reason he messed up the casualty numbers was because

they didn't break up the banks.

[Motown_Johnny]

20. Ya know, Bernie was part of that 10% who is Jewish.

I think a couple visits to the old neighborhood with some local reporters will pave over this little speed bump nicely.

[geek tragedy]

22. Ordinarily I'd be inclined to come to his defense on this, but

to heck with him.

K&R.

[Fozzledick]

41. That's quite a dilemma you have there.

You can vilify Israel, or you can vilify Bernie, but you can't do both at once, and if you do either you contradict the other.

So now you're probably tempted to vilify me again with another sleazy personal attack, but that would risk earning you another hide for a new total of 13, and more mockery from the Count. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511658315#post13

It must be so frustrating, I almost feel sorry for you.

[LexVegas]

23. Meh...liar is going to lie. nt

[seabeyond]

25. He really does just throw numbers out, doesn't he? I read he did the same with lost jobs w/ NAFTA

[Lucinda]

54. And what his plans would actually cost. n/t

[seabeyond]

58. For sure!!! Nt

[Sheepshank]

26. IMHO Weaver, is in part to blame for all of this stuff

Bernie is being manipulated (how is that Presidential?) and Weaver's Rovian tactics are creating damaged goods.

[passy]

29. He admitted he wasn't sure about the numbers during the interview..

Here are the numbers:

Palestinians killed: 2,139

Palestinian children killed: 490

Israeli soldiers killed: 64

Israeli civilians killed: 6

Israeli children killed: 1

Palestinians wounded: 11,000

Palestinian children wounded: 3,000

Gaza residents displaced: Up to 500,000

Homes destroyed in Gaza: 20,000

Almost 500 children.
Half a million people displaced.
Up to 70% of Palestinian killed were civilians.

When looking at the clearly disproportionate numbers in the conflict, the numbers of casualty becomes almost irrelevant. Especially when you see the number of displaced people, the destroyed infrastructure which certainly have led to continued suffering for the people of Gaza. The effects of the war and of the enforced isolation are still felt today.
So rather than focusing on how Bernie guessed the wrong number of casualties of the conflict, maybe you should reflect on all the numbers he didn't mention and how they reflect on the disastrous toll that Israel exacted on the people of Gaza during the war and since.

[oberliner]

31. He said that he thought "over 10,000 innocent people were killed" in Gaza in 2014

He repeated this figure twice.

According to the numbers you are providing here, less than 1,500 innocent people were killed (70 percent of 2,139). That is a pretty huge difference.

The distinction between over 10,000 and under 1,500 is certainly not irrelevant in terms of the number of innocent people killed.

To put that in context, there have been over 3,000 Palestinian civilians killed in Syria during the fighting there (and of course the vast majority of people killed in Syria were not Palestinians). Also, the number of children killed in the Syria fighting is estimated to be over 13,000.

In any case, it is one thing to be off by a small margin, but the incorrect number cited by Bernie in the interview was over six times the actual figure.

[passy]

39. Here is the transcript

"Sanders: Look, why don't I support a million things in the world? I'm just telling you that I happen to believe...anybody help me out here, because I don't remember the figures, but my recollection is over 10,000 innocent people were killed in Gaza. Does that sound right?

Daily News: I think it's probably high, but we can look at that.

Sanders: I don't have it in my number...but I think it's over 10,000"

Now stop being dishonest implying that he asserted he had the right number.
He was smart enough to be in doubt.
Did you know the right number, do you for example know the number of Russian killed during the Second World War?
He could have been thinking about the amount of Palestinians killed since the first Intifada which is around 10 000.
I don't know why you bring up Syria, are you trying to diminish the value of Palestinian deaths at the hands of the Israelis? Are you seriously talking about putting things in context, in that case then the 3000 deaths from 9/11 are completely irrelevant too.
What you fail to understand is that your outrage at Bernie blinds you to the atrocity behind the numbers and when you try to rationalize the number of casualties by comparing it to other atrocities then you are being disingenuous.
What you fail to realize was that this war was extremely disproportionate, for the Israeli army it was figuratively like shooting fish in a barrel.

[oberliner]

45. He was not asked to provide a number

He volunteered that figure. There was no question asked about the total number of innocent people killed in Gaza - he, of his own volition said that he thought 10,000 innocent people were killed. And then he said that number again, in the citation you provide above, "I think it's over 10,000".

If you asked me how many Russians were killed during the Second World War, I would not be able to give you an accurate answer. But if you asked me a question about the Second World War, and I wanted to make a point to bring up how many Russians were killed, I would make sure to at least have a figure that was in the ballpark before doing so.

Bernie could have simply said "many innocent Palestinians were killed" without instead providing a number (which he was not asked for) that was so grossly overinflated.

I only bring up Syria to make the point that the scope and scale of a particular conflict is relevant. A conflict which results in the deaths of over 10,000 innocent people is of a greater scope and scale than one that results in the deaths of less than 1,500 innocent people. I think sometimes the average person believes that the number of Palestinians killed is far higher than what it actually is (and they similarly think the numbers in other conflicts are lower than they actually are).

Please do not put words in my mouth as I never claimed or implied that the Palestinians deaths "are completely irrelevant" - the fact that even that smaller number of innocent civilians were killed is horrific. The way the war was conducted by the Israeli army was shameful and the fact that so many babies and toddlers were killed is especially tragic.

I have no outrage at Bernie at all. I will vote for him proudly. I think he did a great job throughout the majority of this interview.

There is no politician in recent memory who has run for president that I admire and respect as much as Bernie Sanders.

Big picture, this mistake is not really a big deal at all - I just wonder where he might have gotten the wrong information from (or maybe you were right and he was just mixing up some numbers).

[azurnoir]

43. show us where he said in 2014

[oberliner]

46. "Daily News: And I'm going to look at 2014, which was the latest conflict..."

What should Israel have done instead?"

[azurnoir]

48. so you admit it was not Sanders but NYDN that said 2014 10,000+ is the number of wounded BTW

thanks

[oberliner]

50. Q: In 2014, how many home runs did Mike Trout hit?

John: Around 50, I think.

Me: John said that Mike Trout hit around 50 home runs in 2014.

Someone else: Show me where John actually said 2014!!

Me: Are you serious?

[Cheese Sandwich]

36. What War? Israeli government calls that mowing the lawn

[runaway hero]

40. you love this stuff.

this is nothing more then hype.

[Behind the Aegis]

42. All types of misstatements.

First, I agree with the ADL. He should correct himself, if just for accuracy. I read the interview, including the "iPhone update" a few minutes later, which included another question about drones. Could he have "corrected" himself then? I guess it would have been possible.

Second, he was not pandering to the fringe, if he were, he wouldn't have said what he did about the two-state solution, nor would he have called Hamas and Hiz'ballah terrorist organizations. So that is completely a misrepresentation on your part! I can easily find those "fringe" elements here and I can tell you, this answer he provided is one of their "nose holding moments" in regards to supporting his candidacy. It is easy to see when you have remarks calling certain supporters "right-wing" when they aren't, calling Israelis "Isrealites", including continually misspelling, claiming we fight wars for Israel, every pro-Israel person/Zionist is a "right-winger" who hates Arabs/Palestinians/Muslims, and the beat goes on...those are the "fringe" and his statements were not pandering to them, if anything, they think those kind of statements are "soft" and "same as every other candidate."

Third, he did not lie! A lie is the knowingly telling of false information. He didn't even state the information as fact, he said he was "unsure." It was to the best of his recollection, and not everyone has the best recollection to every situation.

Fourth, in regards to your last statement, you should be very, very careful in making a comment like that one, because it could be used in regards to your candidate as well!

I seriously doubt it will hurt him in regards to Jewish voters. Sure, he got the numbers wrong, but almost everything else, he was on point. Most of us simply look at the numbers mistake as a "meh." And though it wasn't in this piece, anyone who thinks this is a "blood libel" is a fucking moron who doesn't have a clue about "blood libel" and I am very firm believer blood libels have been used against Israel!

[Fozzledick]

49. +1. I'm glad someone here can make sense out of this mess.

[Madam Mossfern]

44. ADL is a right wing group

I'm Jewish and believe that Israel's in your face expansion of settlements provides fodder for Palestinian and Arab outrage. I am NOT anti-Israel - just the right wing policies of Likud.

It would be helpful if some here understood the issue better.

I support groups like Seeds of Peace.

[oberliner]

47. No, they are not

And they are correct to point out that Sanders provided a grossly inflated death toll. His number was over 10,000 when the actual figure is less than 1,500.

[Madam Mossfern]

64. My bad

I was thinking of the JDL. ADL are good people.

[dr60omg]

63. Thank you but I don't think people will get the Israeli parliamentary system

Or the issues surrounding the Israeli right, and the disenfranchisement of the Israeli left and things like Mort Zuckerman comes from an Orthodox family (his dad was a rabbi) and Sanders comes from a legacy of social justice which is part of a progressive version of Judaism

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. Oh, well of only a few thousand were murdered....

[Sunlei]

52. Is this something Mrs. Clinton has said? I doubt very much she would approve of your message.

[dr60omg]

55. You're not Jewish are you? And, you don't know the demographics: do you?

Do you understand what the ADL is?
Don't appropriate something you do not understand

[Vilis Veritas]

62. He did not lie. He even said he was unsure.

I personally believe that if ANY country kills (whatever the fucking number is) innocent people and children as a result of their stupid fucking wars then ALL their leaders should be indicted on war crimes and thrown into the burning pits of whatever hell they fear the most.

To politicize this is sickening to me.

Wait 'til their judgement day comes

Now in darkness world stops turning
Ashes where the bodies burning
No more war pigs have the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees the war pig's crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan laughing spreads his wings
oh lord yeah!

[Behind the Aegis]

65. And Sanders responded...

ADL Welcomes Sen. Sanders’ Clarification on Gaza War Casualties

New York, NY, April 7, 2016 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today welcomed the clarification by presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders of his misstatement about Palestinian casualties during the 2014 conflict between Israel and the terrorist group Hamas.

After a phone conversation between the senator and ADL CEO Jonathan A. Greenblatt, Senator Sanders issued a statement clarifying that his recollection that there were 10,000 civilian Palestinian civilian deaths was inaccurate and that the interviewer corrected him in the course of the conversation – a correction that he accepted.

“The senator assured me that he did not mean his remarks to be a definitive statement and that he would make every effort to set the record straight, Mr. Greenblatt said. “We appreciate his responsiveness on this issue, especially at a time when there are many false and incendiary reports blaming Israel for applying disproportionate force in its struggle for self-defense.”

As a 501c3 nonprofit organization, ADL takes no position on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate for office.