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The internal polling for Clinton must be horrible. (Original Post) Warren Stupidity Apr 2016 OP
this is twisted nt DURHAM D Apr 2016 #1
Were u referring to your post..? alittlelark Apr 2016 #15
hey - tell us a stroy - please SoLeftIAmRight Apr 2016 #64
Yep. And it will be a massive blow if she loses New York. n/t TDale313 Apr 2016 #2
It's over if she loses NY. morningfog Apr 2016 #9
It's been pretty much over for Hillary. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2016 #17
You mean like "Hillary Clinton is unqualified to be President"? brooklynite Apr 2016 #3
Bernie's right Politicalboi Apr 2016 #6
Hillary is too soft to be President of the United States ThePhilosopher04 Apr 2016 #8
Putin is laughing his ass off. frylock Apr 2016 #49
I'm rubber and you're glue! Warren Stupidity Apr 2016 #10
He responded in kind. He won't roll over for the Clinton machine. morningfog Apr 2016 #11
Good for Bernie! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2016 #18
You know she declared war nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #38
Thank you for saying what I've been feeling, B. It takes a big person, you know. DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2016 #39
She and her camp have taken an extremely dark and disgusting turn ThePhilosopher04 Apr 2016 #4
Hillary's desperation is showing... must be feelin' the Bern! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2016 #21
Lol,try telling that tale outside the Bernie Bubble geek tragedy Apr 2016 #5
Think you should read the comments here. Fawke Em Apr 2016 #13
The Internet is full of vitriolic losers. nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #14
Have you been to a pot and kettle speed dating event lately? n/t Hydra Apr 2016 #16
Oh SNAP! Raster Apr 2016 #27
I don't harass women (or men) on Twitter or IRL geek tragedy Apr 2016 #37
"@HillaryClinton Don't do this. Just run your best campaign." Hydra Apr 2016 #40
I stopped reading after the first comment called her an geek tragedy Apr 2016 #43
Huh, cuz I posted the first comment for you Hydra Apr 2016 #44
Huh? I saw what I saw, maybe it got deleted nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #45
Bern! Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #63
They are also voters.... Bohemianwriter Apr 2016 #35
Some are. nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #36
It does make me wonder... northernsouthern Apr 2016 #7
They have to stop the momentum. dogman Apr 2016 #12
I hate to think what will happen to Hill when she loses NYC. grasswire Apr 2016 #19
It makes me wonder if she could handle Trump. dogman Apr 2016 #23
or barking nt grasswire Apr 2016 #24
If she can't win her home (adopted) state. Downwinder Apr 2016 #20
Hillary's temper isn't flaring randomly Hydra Apr 2016 #22
When a candidate loses an election, one as large as the Presidency Aerows Apr 2016 #25
The thought has to cross her mind, that maybe the public just doesn't want her. reformist2 Apr 2016 #28
You know it does Aerows Apr 2016 #33
Case in point: the Bobby Kennedy assassination comment Raster Apr 2016 #29
I remember that Aerows Apr 2016 #34
I think you give her too much credit floppyboo Apr 2016 #50
I'm trying to be polite Aerows Apr 2016 #54
Appalling. How low can a person go is the issue. Assassination is ok apparently. appalachiablue Apr 2016 #46
The deep recesses of her blackened heart. frylock Apr 2016 #51
She never had my vote in 2008... Barack_America Apr 2016 #56
It will fail. Go Vols Apr 2016 #26
Well, she's tried everything else. Chan790 Apr 2016 #30
"nothing has worked..." Remind us how many votes ahead she is? brooklynite Apr 2016 #41
Less than she was 2 months ago, 1 month ago, 2 weeks ago... Chan790 Apr 2016 #60
In my opinion, this happened with Obama Jarqui Apr 2016 #31
Worse than horrible. To publicly announce you are going to do so is beyond desperate. BillZBubb Apr 2016 #32
Yes, I agree. kristopher Apr 2016 #42
When they tried to use Sandy Hook against him that was the last straw Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #47
There can be no other interpretation. frylock Apr 2016 #48
I have independently arrived at the same conclusion. dchill Apr 2016 #52
And they're really terrible at it too! CoffeeCat Apr 2016 #53
They are going full bananas AgingAmerican Apr 2016 #55
Well we'll never really know PATRICK Apr 2016 #57
I give them credit for Recycling. We can all re-use this graph from 8 years ago GreatGazoo Apr 2016 #58
I think it is Hillary's personality. She's been through a lot. snowy owl Apr 2016 #59
HRC's firewall has failed, now it's every surrogate into the breach HereSince1628 Apr 2016 #61
Nice Try Demsrule86 Apr 2016 #62
Is that you Bullhorn Bill? corkhead Apr 2016 #65

brooklynite

(94,585 posts)
3. You mean like "Hillary Clinton is unqualified to be President"?
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:11 PM
Apr 2016

The internal polling for Sanders must be horrible. That is the only explanation I can come up with for their odd decision to go deeply negative.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
6. Bernie's right
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:13 PM
Apr 2016

It won't hurt him. Hillary better worry about the Clinton Foundation. That's going to sink her, not us or Bernie.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
10. I'm rubber and you're glue!
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:14 PM
Apr 2016

Sanders responded to her campaign's new strategy, the question is why they think they need s new deeply negative scorched earth strategy.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
38. You know she declared war
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:29 AM
Apr 2016

and got pushback. She is not the victim here (to be brutally honest neither is) but she wanted to paint him as weak, backfire.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
39. Thank you for saying what I've been feeling, B. It takes a big person, you know.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:30 AM
Apr 2016

I refer to the part inside the quotation marks, of course.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
5. Lol,try telling that tale outside the Bernie Bubble
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:12 PM
Apr 2016

Outside the bubble, Bernie just cost himself all credibility.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
44. Huh, cuz I posted the first comment for you
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:45 AM
Apr 2016

Different scripts, or 2 + 2 = 5 as the party needs it to be?

 

northernsouthern

(1,511 posts)
7. It does make me wonder...
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:13 PM
Apr 2016

If they are suddenly going more negative in one camp and saying it, is it because of numbers, or possible in fighting (since that occurred quite badly last time in her bid), or could it just be to wrap it up because they figure to get the indies they need to go bad now to have time to heal later? It would be neat to get an inside look, but the bigger deal is do they have proof that false negative narratives work still? I for one hate how the media goes after Trump with insults and not on all of the actual issues that are wrong with him or Cruz.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
19. I hate to think what will happen to Hill when she loses NYC.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:22 PM
Apr 2016

Poor Bill. Poor Chelsea. Poor staff. Yikes.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
23. It makes me wonder if she could handle Trump.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:24 PM
Apr 2016

I have an awful picture in my mind of her doing her laugh as she's led off to an ambulance.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
22. Hillary's temper isn't flaring randomly
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:23 PM
Apr 2016

They kept hoping the Bern would burn out, that some state somewhere would say no. Tactically, they can't lose NY. If they do, it turns into a running defensive battle rather than having a high ground advantage.

I expect kitchen sinks to fly- do or die time.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
25. When a candidate loses an election, one as large as the Presidency
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:27 PM
Apr 2016

and fails, they invent narratives in their heads that it is everybody but their campaign and their own self as a candidate.

It is rather unwise to dispute the psychological damage a loss that bad to President Obama had on her psyche.

Here she is again, at the same crossroads, with someone completely different that she is running against in the Primary, yet Sanders piecemeal has become a "work and put in together" force of a campaign so big it can no longer be ignored.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
28. The thought has to cross her mind, that maybe the public just doesn't want her.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:34 PM
Apr 2016

It's a little like Bill Maher said, (paraphrasing): "In 2008, we ran you against a black man with an African father, and a middle name of Hussein(!), and you lost. Now in 2016 we're running you against a 74 year-old Jewish socialist from Vermont, and you still can't close the deal. We can't make this any easier for you, Hillary!"

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
33. You know it does
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:46 PM
Apr 2016

She just isn't cut out for the job. Elizabeth Warren *IS* cut out for the job.

Tulsi Gabbard might also be our first female President given a few years.

My respect and support for her, and I supported her in 2008, took a nose dive when she started with dog whistle politics and whisper campaigns that President Obama was a Muslim. As though anybody gave a shit, because on foreign policy, President Obama showed restraint *DESPITE* Hillary Clinton's service as SoS.

President Obama has done more to prevent coffins draped with flags and VA hospitals full of men and women missing arms and legs than many Presidents in my lifetime have. He certainly isn't perfect, but he doesn't demand boots on the ground if he can choose a more peaceful path.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
34. I remember that
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:02 AM
Apr 2016

It was a duplicitous truck full of threats and insinuation. That tells you how far she is willing to go to intimidate her opponents.

It didn't work with Obama.

That kind of tactic has no chance of working on Bernie Sanders, either. Love him or hate him - intimidating him is all kinds of hopeless. Underestimating him is an avenue paved with unpleasant surprises.

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
50. I think you give her too much credit
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:00 AM
Apr 2016

This mis-spoke thing may be too ingrained. Too much time in the bubble.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
56. She never had my vote in 2008...
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 02:22 AM
Apr 2016

...but she lost my 2016 vote all the way back in 2008 with that comment.

I have never forgotten what she said that day, nor her white-faced, terrified attempt to backpedal shortly thereafter in a convenience store.

That leaders like Clyburn and Lewis "forgot" this saddens me greatly.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
30. Well, she's tried everything else.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:37 PM
Apr 2016

Ignoring him, mocking him, stealing his ideas and claiming them as her own, praising him...nothing has worked and she's running out of tools in the toolbox.

She just can't seem to shake him as he gains on her and damages the ideas that she's both inevitable and the most electable Democrat.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
60. Less than she was 2 months ago, 1 month ago, 2 weeks ago...
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 07:24 AM
Apr 2016

so, nothing has worked. She staked out a lead that he keeps slowly eating into. She might be able to hold-out on the lead through the end of the primaries but even if she does, if she can't start to widen the gap again the calls are going to start for even the pledged delegates at the convention to toss her over and the reality is going to set in that she's not electable in the GE.

I'm not sure why it's so difficult for her supporters to admit that from a purely objective and statistical standpoint...she's a candidate with problems: She's upside-down against 2 of the 3 GOP candidates still in the race, her polling negatives are extreme, she's now consistently losing head-to-head polling against Sanders, her campaign is clearly run by people who don't have any idea how to stop Sanders surge, no candidate has ever won the Presidency that has lost the majority of independents nationally during the primary & caucus stage of the election...(there are literally another 122 items on this list of "problems Hillary has&quot

It doesn't matter how many delegates she's ahead...if she's on a course to Mondale this election, she has an obligation to not be the nominee and the convention has an obligation to deny her the nomination if she will not drop.

Jarqui

(10,126 posts)
31. In my opinion, this happened with Obama
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:40 PM
Apr 2016

She touted her greater number of super delegates when things started to unravel in 2008

She started to meltdown as she was losing ...

She lashed out "Shame on you Barack Obama " (on bogus claims - Obama had good backup for his claims) Bill Clinton floated stuff like that in 2008 "a few years ago, he'd be carrying our bags"
(kind of like this desperate "Sanders is not qualified" crap today )

... and then she got a little deluded with the popular vote stuff in 2008 (not enough oxygen getting to her brain) and as her campaign has sagged in 2016, we're hearing about the 2.5 million more votes that ignore a number of caucus states and the populations they represent - more delusion.

It's a Deja vu. We've seen it before.

Her campaign is in trouble and threatening to go into a deep dive ....

Exasperated, having tried lies, deceptions, dirty tricks, she now has to desperately lash out, trying to stop the bleeding of voters.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
32. Worse than horrible. To publicly announce you are going to do so is beyond desperate.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 11:46 PM
Apr 2016

They see the trend line in NY. They know if they don't stop that, it's going to be another Wisconsin.

Once these blue state primaries heat up and people start comparing the candidates in earnest, Hillary comes up short every time.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
47. When they tried to use Sandy Hook against him that was the last straw
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:54 AM
Apr 2016

I truly think Bernie snapped a little bit, I mean he got angry. That is so offensive. He probably sat down and wrote that speech about what disqualifies someone from being president right there on the spot.

And he didn't waste any time in firing back. Not even 24 went by after they started blaming him for Sandy hook. He didn't let it stew. He fired back right away. Bernie is a real human being not an ass kissing corporate robot. The system is going to have a hard time digesting him.

dchill

(38,501 posts)
52. I have independently arrived at the same conclusion.
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:08 AM
Apr 2016

Without any help from the MSM. They know a lot of shit they're not telling us, unless they're spinning it 180.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
53. And they're really terrible at it too!
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:19 AM
Apr 2016

The Clinton camp thought they were going badass on Bernie.

They are extremely incompetent in attack mode. They look wildly unhinged.

Everything they've thrown up on Day 1 of "Destroy and Disqualify" has been stupid.

I'm actually kind of disappointed.

I think the problem is that Bernie is an honest, decent man with no dirt (unlike Hillary Clinton the scandal factory).

Must be frustrating for Clinton.

PATRICK

(12,228 posts)
57. Well we'll never really know
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 03:36 AM
Apr 2016

Despite the touting of public polling companies that they offer you what the campaign insiders once had only for themselves, several factors have spoiled, often deliberately, that claim. Now they behave almost like the leaked internal polls which are usually deliberate lies. No one wants to admit they will win by a small margin at best, or lose, of course. But when they need to rout their enemy's voters they will use discouragement by any means whatsoever.

It feels or appears, especially matching results, reportage, interpretation and clumping of polls that they have failed consistently on one side, namely pumping up Hillary and literally dismissing Sanders. These magic numbers extend to spinning the actual concrete numbers of the current delegate total, deliberate blindness to inescapable trends and saying a bunch of unmistakably true things as if there were no conclusions to be made damaging to the HRC campaign.

Meanwhile the hatefest GOP clown show keeps trying to make a contest of the most detestable and dangerous candidaters hated by their own party. At least the networks seem to enjoy the totally amoral game for ratings there while they tamper down the "bern" however possible.

But do we have their internals. No, we only have their facial and body language, tactical tells etc. to lead us to reading the true state of the campaign. Dumping the silliness or loyal rationalization of the obvious into something else, it seems the HRC campaign is more desperate than "annoyed" or "angry" about being weakened for November. It's too early to be making excuses for that, isn't it?
Also, despite the fact that the gloves have been off for months now, one has been retrieved from the mud and hurled like a gauntlet.
Being dishonest doesn't help hide the desperation.

Giving up Wisconsin. Making NY the pivotal battleground. Obama lost NY, but she cannot afford to lose here as a prelude to setting her actual weakness in concrete from here to June. So how loyal are super-delegates to the putative weaker candidate when it could easily be a GOP dark horse in the fall, the smoke and mirrors surrendered for months of cloaking real issues to a personality contest
the Dems have PRE-LOST with Hillary? No, it's not about electoral style delegate count numbers but really holding and extending Dem territory.

No you never will get a straight answer from the Clinton campaign unless she is dead sure of winning and then the temptation to exaggerate is unfortunately way too strong. Now how about Bernie? I am afraid the "blow-outs" are a hoped for thing with the nedia suppressing a rout atmosphere as long as possible. And they don't want to lie or make too much of the voter suppression set in place by the GOP for November but working just fine in the primaries with unexpected turnout. Have the feeling the GOP was all too happy to have Clinton waltz through without testing the minefield? Of course, the media makes little connection here either.

Unfortunately 2016 confirms the very worst impressions of 2008 even if you were to minus any accumulated negatives from her SOS experience and fund-raising among the gods of Mammon. Reflexive honesty of a sort, which while appreciated, will doom us all in November- if it doesn't succumb to the even deadlier weakness of the party establishment.

The voters will make the difference. Despite the denial of their rights in many insidious ways, they are the ultimate judges.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
58. I give them credit for Recycling. We can all re-use this graph from 8 years ago
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 04:51 AM
Apr 2016

because they are recycling their desperate smear tactics from 2008.



AND it will really help unify the party around Sanders!

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
61. HRC's firewall has failed, now it's every surrogate into the breach
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 09:17 AM
Apr 2016

with printouts of disqualifying memes.

As if a paper barrier is going to be hard to Bern through!

Demsrule86

(68,582 posts)
62. Nice Try
Thu Apr 7, 2016, 10:30 AM
Apr 2016

Bernie figured out that he can't win...delegate math...so he is going negative on Hillary with no care for the country. All he is doing now is helping the Republicans.

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