2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe internal polling for Clinton must be horrible.
That is the only explanation I can come up with for their odd decision to go deeply negative.
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)alittlelark
(18,890 posts)...being twisted?
Cannot think of what else u r referring to......
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)tell us about her trip to bosnia
lol
TDale313
(7,820 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
brooklynite
(94,585 posts)The internal polling for Sanders must be horrible. That is the only explanation I can come up with for their odd decision to go deeply negative.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)It won't hurt him. Hillary better worry about the Clinton Foundation. That's going to sink her, not us or Bernie.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Sanders responded to her campaign's new strategy, the question is why they think they need s new deeply negative scorched earth strategy.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and got pushback. She is not the victim here (to be brutally honest neither is) but she wanted to paint him as weak, backfire.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I refer to the part inside the quotation marks, of course.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)Bernie is right to call her out.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Outside the bubble, Bernie just cost himself all credibility.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)You're very wrong.
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/717797172154998784
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)Harassment at its best.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)"asshole bitch."
YMMV.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)Different scripts, or 2 + 2 = 5 as the party needs it to be?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)If they are suddenly going more negative in one camp and saying it, is it because of numbers, or possible in fighting (since that occurred quite badly last time in her bid), or could it just be to wrap it up because they figure to get the indies they need to go bad now to have time to heal later? It would be neat to get an inside look, but the bigger deal is do they have proof that false negative narratives work still? I for one hate how the media goes after Trump with insults and not on all of the actual issues that are wrong with him or Cruz.
dogman
(6,073 posts)This is NY, they really must win or look out.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Poor Bill. Poor Chelsea. Poor staff. Yikes.
dogman
(6,073 posts)I have an awful picture in my mind of her doing her laugh as she's led off to an ambulance.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Downwinder
(12,869 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)They kept hoping the Bern would burn out, that some state somewhere would say no. Tactically, they can't lose NY. If they do, it turns into a running defensive battle rather than having a high ground advantage.
I expect kitchen sinks to fly- do or die time.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and fails, they invent narratives in their heads that it is everybody but their campaign and their own self as a candidate.
It is rather unwise to dispute the psychological damage a loss that bad to President Obama had on her psyche.
Here she is again, at the same crossroads, with someone completely different that she is running against in the Primary, yet Sanders piecemeal has become a "work and put in together" force of a campaign so big it can no longer be ignored.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)It's a little like Bill Maher said, (paraphrasing): "In 2008, we ran you against a black man with an African father, and a middle name of Hussein(!), and you lost. Now in 2016 we're running you against a 74 year-old Jewish socialist from Vermont, and you still can't close the deal. We can't make this any easier for you, Hillary!"
Aerows
(39,961 posts)She just isn't cut out for the job. Elizabeth Warren *IS* cut out for the job.
Tulsi Gabbard might also be our first female President given a few years.
My respect and support for her, and I supported her in 2008, took a nose dive when she started with dog whistle politics and whisper campaigns that President Obama was a Muslim. As though anybody gave a shit, because on foreign policy, President Obama showed restraint *DESPITE* Hillary Clinton's service as SoS.
President Obama has done more to prevent coffins draped with flags and VA hospitals full of men and women missing arms and legs than many Presidents in my lifetime have. He certainly isn't perfect, but he doesn't demand boots on the ground if he can choose a more peaceful path.
Raster
(20,998 posts)Where the fuck did that come from????
Aerows
(39,961 posts)It was a duplicitous truck full of threats and insinuation. That tells you how far she is willing to go to intimidate her opponents.
It didn't work with Obama.
That kind of tactic has no chance of working on Bernie Sanders, either. Love him or hate him - intimidating him is all kinds of hopeless. Underestimating him is an avenue paved with unpleasant surprises.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)This mis-spoke thing may be too ingrained. Too much time in the bubble.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)lest I become sacked up with the dreaded
appalachiablue
(41,140 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...but she lost my 2016 vote all the way back in 2008 with that comment.
I have never forgotten what she said that day, nor her white-faced, terrified attempt to backpedal shortly thereafter in a convenience store.
That leaders like Clyburn and Lewis "forgot" this saddens me greatly.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)Ignoring him, mocking him, stealing his ideas and claiming them as her own, praising him...nothing has worked and she's running out of tools in the toolbox.
She just can't seem to shake him as he gains on her and damages the ideas that she's both inevitable and the most electable Democrat.
brooklynite
(94,585 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)so, nothing has worked. She staked out a lead that he keeps slowly eating into. She might be able to hold-out on the lead through the end of the primaries but even if she does, if she can't start to widen the gap again the calls are going to start for even the pledged delegates at the convention to toss her over and the reality is going to set in that she's not electable in the GE.
I'm not sure why it's so difficult for her supporters to admit that from a purely objective and statistical standpoint...she's a candidate with problems: She's upside-down against 2 of the 3 GOP candidates still in the race, her polling negatives are extreme, she's now consistently losing head-to-head polling against Sanders, her campaign is clearly run by people who don't have any idea how to stop Sanders surge, no candidate has ever won the Presidency that has lost the majority of independents nationally during the primary & caucus stage of the election...(there are literally another 122 items on this list of "problems Hillary has"
It doesn't matter how many delegates she's ahead...if she's on a course to Mondale this election, she has an obligation to not be the nominee and the convention has an obligation to deny her the nomination if she will not drop.
Jarqui
(10,126 posts)She touted her greater number of super delegates when things started to unravel in 2008
She started to meltdown as she was losing ...
She lashed out "Shame on you Barack Obama " (on bogus claims - Obama had good backup for his claims) Bill Clinton floated stuff like that in 2008 "a few years ago, he'd be carrying our bags"
(kind of like this desperate "Sanders is not qualified" crap today )
... and then she got a little deluded with the popular vote stuff in 2008 (not enough oxygen getting to her brain) and as her campaign has sagged in 2016, we're hearing about the 2.5 million more votes that ignore a number of caucus states and the populations they represent - more delusion.
It's a Deja vu. We've seen it before.
Her campaign is in trouble and threatening to go into a deep dive ....
Exasperated, having tried lies, deceptions, dirty tricks, she now has to desperately lash out, trying to stop the bleeding of voters.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)They see the trend line in NY. They know if they don't stop that, it's going to be another Wisconsin.
Once these blue state primaries heat up and people start comparing the candidates in earnest, Hillary comes up short every time.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)If she were solid she'd be coasting.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)I truly think Bernie snapped a little bit, I mean he got angry. That is so offensive. He probably sat down and wrote that speech about what disqualifies someone from being president right there on the spot.
And he didn't waste any time in firing back. Not even 24 went by after they started blaming him for Sandy hook. He didn't let it stew. He fired back right away. Bernie is a real human being not an ass kissing corporate robot. The system is going to have a hard time digesting him.
frylock
(34,825 posts)dchill
(38,501 posts)Without any help from the MSM. They know a lot of shit they're not telling us, unless they're spinning it 180.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)The Clinton camp thought they were going badass on Bernie.
They are extremely incompetent in attack mode. They look wildly unhinged.
Everything they've thrown up on Day 1 of "Destroy and Disqualify" has been stupid.
I'm actually kind of disappointed.
I think the problem is that Bernie is an honest, decent man with no dirt (unlike Hillary Clinton the scandal factory).
Must be frustrating for Clinton.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Which will sink them even faster
PATRICK
(12,228 posts)Despite the touting of public polling companies that they offer you what the campaign insiders once had only for themselves, several factors have spoiled, often deliberately, that claim. Now they behave almost like the leaked internal polls which are usually deliberate lies. No one wants to admit they will win by a small margin at best, or lose, of course. But when they need to rout their enemy's voters they will use discouragement by any means whatsoever.
It feels or appears, especially matching results, reportage, interpretation and clumping of polls that they have failed consistently on one side, namely pumping up Hillary and literally dismissing Sanders. These magic numbers extend to spinning the actual concrete numbers of the current delegate total, deliberate blindness to inescapable trends and saying a bunch of unmistakably true things as if there were no conclusions to be made damaging to the HRC campaign.
Meanwhile the hatefest GOP clown show keeps trying to make a contest of the most detestable and dangerous candidaters hated by their own party. At least the networks seem to enjoy the totally amoral game for ratings there while they tamper down the "bern" however possible.
But do we have their internals. No, we only have their facial and body language, tactical tells etc. to lead us to reading the true state of the campaign. Dumping the silliness or loyal rationalization of the obvious into something else, it seems the HRC campaign is more desperate than "annoyed" or "angry" about being weakened for November. It's too early to be making excuses for that, isn't it?
Also, despite the fact that the gloves have been off for months now, one has been retrieved from the mud and hurled like a gauntlet.
Being dishonest doesn't help hide the desperation.
Giving up Wisconsin. Making NY the pivotal battleground. Obama lost NY, but she cannot afford to lose here as a prelude to setting her actual weakness in concrete from here to June. So how loyal are super-delegates to the putative weaker candidate when it could easily be a GOP dark horse in the fall, the smoke and mirrors surrendered for months of cloaking real issues to a personality contest
the Dems have PRE-LOST with Hillary? No, it's not about electoral style delegate count numbers but really holding and extending Dem territory.
No you never will get a straight answer from the Clinton campaign unless she is dead sure of winning and then the temptation to exaggerate is unfortunately way too strong. Now how about Bernie? I am afraid the "blow-outs" are a hoped for thing with the nedia suppressing a rout atmosphere as long as possible. And they don't want to lie or make too much of the voter suppression set in place by the GOP for November but working just fine in the primaries with unexpected turnout. Have the feeling the GOP was all too happy to have Clinton waltz through without testing the minefield? Of course, the media makes little connection here either.
Unfortunately 2016 confirms the very worst impressions of 2008 even if you were to minus any accumulated negatives from her SOS experience and fund-raising among the gods of Mammon. Reflexive honesty of a sort, which while appreciated, will doom us all in November- if it doesn't succumb to the even deadlier weakness of the party establishment.
The voters will make the difference. Despite the denial of their rights in many insidious ways, they are the ultimate judges.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)because they are recycling their desperate smear tactics from 2008.
AND it will really help unify the party around Sanders!
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)with printouts of disqualifying memes.
As if a paper barrier is going to be hard to Bern through!
Demsrule86
(68,582 posts)Bernie figured out that he can't win...delegate math...so he is going negative on Hillary with no care for the country. All he is doing now is helping the Republicans.