Hillary and her supporters...

[SHRED]

...seem dead set on alienating Bernie supporters with their condescension towards them.

How on earth is this a good strategy to win the nomination or the general should she become the nominee?

This is not good for the party at all in my view.

[peacebird]

1. It's her turn dammit! To heck with the party!

[The Blue Flower]

2. They'll pick up the pieces later

Yeah, that's the ticket.

[fun n serious]

84. We do you expect? No fight? lol nt

[merrily]

105. Obama fought in 2008, but he did not fight lowdown.

[DanTex]

3. She's absolutely right.

Trying to say that Hillary is funded by the "fossil fuel industry" and that she's not strong on environmental issues is absurd. It's a shame that Bernie decided to spread lies like that.

As for people who believe Bernie's lies, "feeling sorry" for them is a pretty mild way of putting it.

[HumanityExperiment]

10. Fracking...

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/09/hillary-clinton-fracking-shale-state-department-chevron

https://theintercept.com/2016/03/09/hillary-clinton-wants-to-regulate-fracking-but-still-accepts-a-lot-of-fracking-money/

HRC is in the pocket of fossil fuel special interests

with NY in the cross hairs... HRC will have a tough time...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/18/nyregion/cuomo-to-ban-fracking-in-new-york-state-citing-health-risks.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/us/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-climate-change.html?_r=0

You hammer HRC on this and she's toast

[riderinthestorm]

12. And her support for the Keystone XL pipeline nt

[hollysmom]

21. Which, by the way, leaked in South Dakota this week

[riderinthestorm]

26. I saw that

[WhiteTara]

42. Different pipeline but real problem. nt

The XL is dead.

[hollysmom]

51. not yet, they don't want to build it anymore but they want the US to pay them billions of our money

[JeffHead]

64. The pipeline may be dead, but the lawsuit is very much alive. Thanks to NAFTA.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/business/international/transcanada-to-sue-us-for-blocking-keystone-xl-pipeline.html?_r=0

[DanTex]

13. NG burns cleaner than coal, which is why it was part of Obama's climate agenda.

By the way, outside of the Bernie bubble, everyone knows this.

[HumanityExperiment]

24. HRC 'pivot'...

NG and unicorn farts.... burn cleaner than coal, disregard the fossil fuel aspect and it's affect on climate

But go ahead with that pivot attempt, did you sprain anything making that big of a pivot?

Intellectual dishonesty is quite strong within HRC supporter land

[DanTex]

43. You understand that the "aspect" that affects the climate are emissions.

And NG, emitting less CO2 than coal, thus has less effect on the climate.

[HumanityExperiment]

48. And there is it...

"less effect on climate"...

Thx for playing you conveniently and succinctly make my point

NG isn't just about 'emitting less CO2 than coal' you have to take into account end to end affects that resource has on climate which you pivot away from so you're trying to work that intellectually dishonest angle very hard

[DanTex]

49. Yes, less climate impact is a good thing.

[HumanityExperiment]

56. Your intellectual dishonesty is showing again...

Your roll as the HRC supporting intellectually dishonest clown is well earned DanTex, your posts and replies are so massively intellectually dishonest it becomes a standing joke

[DanTex]

57. Because I'm in favor of less climate impact?

You're here defending coal burning and calling me intellectually dishonest.

[HumanityExperiment]

61. I defend climate...

so there is that...

Yep, you're intellectual dishonesty is very easily pointed out in so many of your replies it's comical... you could (and should) make a game of it

Your complete avoidance of my point about HRC being in pocket of fracking special interest is noted!

Have a good day!

[DanTex]

63. You're defending coal. Which is hilarious.

NG burns cleaner than coal, and Obama and Hillary are in favor of replacing coal plants with NG plants.

And you're against that simply because you need to find a way to make Obama and Hillary look evil. Intellectual honesty...

[HumanityExperiment]

66. Point out where I 'support coal'....

please DanTex, point our where I have ever posted 'support of coal'

I'll wait...

[DanTex]

67. This entire thread, when you're denying that NG produces less CO2.

And you're arguing against replacing coal plants with NG plants.

[HumanityExperiment]

68. my post relates to HRC and fracking...

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/09/hillary-clinton-fracking-shale-state-department-chevron

https://theintercept.com/2016/03/09/hillary-clinton-wants-to-regulate-fracking-but-still-accepts-a-lot-of-fracking-money/

HRC is in the pocket of fossil fuel special interests

with NY in the cross hairs... HRC will have a tough time...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/18/nyregion/cuomo-to-ban-fracking-in-new-york-state-citing-health-risks.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/us/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-climate-change.html?_r=0

You hammer HRC on this and she's toast

[DanTex]

69. And then you ignore the fact that the reason that Obama pushed for NG is to

replace coal plants with NG plants, thereby reducing CO2 emissions.

Which is the height of intellectual dishonesty. You've got you're cut-and-paste smears, but you don't actually pay attention to the issues.

[HumanityExperiment]

73. yeah.. right...

you want a dose of intellectual honesty, you want to work the facts, let me bury you with this simple flow... HRC and special interests when it concerns fracking and NG

https://www.ted.com/talks/t_boone_pickens_let_s_transform_energy_with_natural_gas?language=en

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/6/25/1218877/-Obama-Climate-Plan-a-Full-Throttle-Fracking-Endorsement

http://newsok.com/article/5421362

I pay VERY close attention to the details and history as it pertains to the issues

game-set-match... buh bye...

[DanTex]

74. Well, that is the reason. It's not some conspiracy to screw the climate.

And NG does burn cleaner than coal, your conspiracy theories notwithstanding.

[HumanityExperiment]

77. Bwahahahahahahaha....

here's a new one, facts and details are now "conspiracy theories"

you're done DanTex... thx for playing

[DanTex]

78. The key fact here is that NG burns cleaner than coal.

That's not convenient to your smear campaign, so you ignore it.

[DemocracyDirect]

103. Windmills are cleaner than coal and NG.

Could it be that we are concerned with Hillary Clinton's allegiance to the fossil fuel industry...

... because she may just settle for NG, rather than going all the way to renewables and green energy?

This is why we need leaders who are actually willing to lead us into the future...

... not into the pocketbook of their campaign donors.

[malokvale77]

93. Oh boy...

You really don't get it at all.

The emissions from fracking are far worse than those of CO2. Never mind the polluting of our ground water and all the earthquakes.

[WDIM]

38. She is not strong on the environment.

Wars are very bad for the environment she supports those. Cluster bombs are bad for the environment she supports those. Fracking is bad for the environment she supports that. Pipe lines are bad for the environment she supports that. Offshore drilling is bad for the environment she supports that.

[TheSarcastinator]

54. good luck selling that line of swill

The arrogance, condescension and entitlement have failed: time to try a new line of propaganda if you want to move Her Majesty into the White House.

[RobertEarl]

4. PUMAs

Party Unity? My Ass.

We have to destroy the party before we can save it, they say.

The cool thing is, we Bernie folks will forgive them. For they know not what they do. Obviously, eh?

[nichomachus]

5. Don't you get it?

You "have no choice." That's been their plan all along. If Trump didn't exist, the Clintons would have had to invent him. It's the only way to get their ethically challenged candidate elected.

If the GOP were running a moderate -- I'd settle for sane -- candidate, Clinton would be toast.

[KMOD]

11. Anyone who would vote for the GOP

should really find a new place to hang out. This board is for electing Democrats.

[nichomachus]

16. I'm not advocating it -- just predicting what would happen

Or do you prefer living in Hillary Fantasy World?

[KMOD]

18. The fact that you said you'd settle for a sane GOP moderate,

tells me all I need to know about you.

If you can't see the difference between the parties, you are the one living in a fantasy world.

[MoonchildCA]

23. You obviously misread that...

[Ghost Dog]

82. Clearly. Clinton supporters seem to have a special penchant

for that.

[CorkySt.Clair]

25. It's just like 2000

"Bush and Gore are the same", we were told by basically the same crowd.

We all saw how that turned out.

[KMOD]

32. Yup.

I will never understand how people can honestly believe that.

[WDIM]

52. I cant see a difference between Hillary and Neo-cons

From her support of the Iraq war to her continuation of PNACs goals as SOS. She is a neo-con corporatist and when you put her up next to a repug it is hard to see the difference besides minor difference on tax policy. small difference on abortion which she would support laws against if it had exceptions for the health of the mother.

She is pro war pro wall street pro fossil fuels pro free trade pro cannabis prohibition pro corporate welfare pro bailouts pretty much everything pro-neocon.

[KMOD]

55. I see why you can't see the difference.

you're repeating right wing talking points.

[WDIM]

62. Im repeating the RW policies she supports

i never hear the RW complain about her support of any of the things i listed. They are glad to have her support.

[BillZBubb]

109. Geez, get a clue. The right wing doesn't claim Hillary as an ally on foreign policy--but she is.

She's as much a hawk as any of them.

[redstateblues]

81. "Not a dimes worth of difference"? HMMM-where have I heard that before? Is that you Ralph?

[Ghost Dog]

80. This board, as I understand it, is for discussing, developing & advocating

progressive ideas and policies, and, I had thought, in election seasons, supporting Democratic Party candidates who espouse the same?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

34. Translation, you might vote GOP if the candidate is moderate enough?

Asking, just curious.

[msanthrope]

6. When his supporters say they won't vote for her under any circumstances, their votes

have no value to Democrats. Blew the leverage, so to speak.

[kaleckim]

19. I don't feel that people like yourself

realize the sea change that has occurred in this country. You might recognize it from afar, from your relatively well off vantage point, but you don't seem to appreciate how far behind the times this mentality is. The days where you could mock the left and not pay consequences are over. The left is very close to leaving your party and people like yourself seem to think you could be condescending and mock people on the left on the idea that you don't need them to win and that there won't be consequences. It is suicide from a party standpoint, as young people are not on board for Clinton. Not only are you pissing the left in general off, you're blowing any chance with the youth. You can't argue her or your party's policies have improved the lives of the young, so what exactly do you offer the young? Being less bad than the alternative?

Given that your candidate is very likely to get the nomination at this point, you might want to think of the consequences of acting the way you do. If you think you don't have to give a reason for people on the left to vote for her, you're out the lunch. Given the fact though that you have the pride colors there, I'd be interested why you favor a candidate that got around to supporting marriage equality a few years ago when Sanders was on board far before that, but I've given up hope that Clinton supporters can make sense of supporting her.

[msanthrope]

30. Yeah, okay....look, I've been going to party meetings for 25 years.

I'm still waiting for the far left...the young, to show up. Frankly, I'm tired if cleaning the coffee pot. NY is a closed primary. Democrats voting for Democrats. As it should be.

And FYI....if he is the nominee, I'll be wearing his credentials on Election day as a voter protection attorney. Not many here cnn say that.

[kaleckim]

45. LOL! "Far left"

Can you name a position Sanders takes that is outside the mainstream of the entire country (not just the left)? Can you cite a poll to prove it? Nope. That is exactly what I am talking about. You don't seem to realize how out of step Clinton and people like yourself are. On issue after issue, Sanders is right in the middle of popular opinion. If he is "far left", so is the general public on the actual issues.

Can you answer my question though regarding her stances on issues impacting the LGBT community and compare that to Sanders? If you care about those issues, can you explain why you support her when she didn't support marriage equality until 3 years ago, when it was already beyond safe to take the position (thanks to the work others did)?

She does far worse, by the way, with independents, which is part of the reason why Sanders is where he is. You are incapable of motivating people to show up and to give a damn, so good luck with everyone outside your party (independents now rival your party in size and support Sanders more than any other candidate in either party, by a mile) when it comes to the general election.

[msanthrope]

47. Guns.. his Brady votes put him outside most New Yorkers.nt

[kaleckim]

58. His record from the NRA

is a D or D-, so nonsense. Even so, doesn't put him outside the mainstream and make him "far left" Even if I were to accept that he didn't have a perfect record on the issue, certainly wouldn't make him "far left".

Come on, what makes him and his followers "far left" and what stance on an issue places him and his followers outside the mainstream in the US?

[msanthrope]

86. I never believe anything a right wing source has to say. Why do you? mt

[kaleckim]

116. Do you really think people will fall for that?

My god, if you want to pretend to not see the difference, go ahead. Makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about.

[Ghost Dog]

87. Points very well made, there, thank you

kaleckim. Good to read.

[BillZBubb]

110. That is illogical and foolish.

Their votes have value if Hillary is not the nominee.

Not voting has a value as well. It is a form of protest.

[hrmjustin]

7. Look in a mirror.

[CorkySt.Clair]

28. +1

Because Sanders supporters haven't been smug, condescending or shrill at any time in this process.

[SHRED]

36. maybe post a link where Bernie goes off like this?

[jwirr]

8. The old idea that we do not have anywhere else to go which

applied to POC, elderly, disabled and the poor is kind of wearing away after the crash of 2008. We got hurt. And we are still hurting.

[kaleckim]

22. People have a place to go...

anyone that thinks otherwise is stuck in 1995. Left wing parties are making inroads at the local level. If the establishment doesn't truly address the critiques that the left has of people like Clinton, they're done for. In answering to those critiques they'll answer to the failure of the policies that Clinton and politicians like her have supported. Not addressing the critiques of people like Clinton is not addressing the impact of the those policies. I think Clinton supporters should think long and hard about how the country has changed in the last decade or so. If she does do what the left predicts she will, and if the impact is similar in the future to what it has been in the past, they're going to be in deep trouble by the end of her presidency. The changes Bernie Sanders is calling for now will be peanuts compared to what emerges in a decade or so.

Clinton's bourgeois followers are in for a rude awakening.

[jwirr]

31. Exactly.Your predictions for a decade from now are very

Last edited Wed Apr 6, 2016, 09:46 PM - Edit history (1)

correct because if she gets in (or the R gets in) they will lead us in the wrong direction and we will be much worse off than today.

[dr60omg]

33. That is such a good analysis

Thank you

[malokvale77]

115. Yes, we are hurting...

and we are angry.

[KMOD]

9. Bernie Sanders and his supporters

seem dead set on destroying the Democratic Party's chances in November.

It's time to fight back on his smears. Bernie Pinocchio Sanders is out of control.

[SheilaT]

14. Remind me again who said

'Disqualify him. Defeat him. Go after his gun record. Scorched earth now. Party unity later.'

Hint: it wasn't Bernie or a Bernie supporter, although the word 'him' is probably another clue.

[KMOD]

27. Well since he can't seem to understand the delegate math,

and is even claiming that he thinks there will be a contested convention, how else to you deal with him.

The sooner he is defeated, the sooner we can unify the party. Eventually it's going to reach a point where he will no longer be able to spout his fantasy of winning the Primary. He can't. Everyone seems to know this except him, Jeff Weaver and a handful of his supporters.

[SheilaT]

39. Bernie is not the one saying he'll

destroy and disqualify Hillary, and screw party unity.

So please realize exactly which candidate is happy to tear the party apart.

And keep in mind that Hillary was always seen as Inevitable, until someone was willing to challenge her, someone who actually has a progressive record, who really does care about the 99%, who doesn't take money from big banks, who doesn't lie about coming under fire in Bosnia, who voted against the Iraq War in the first place.

[KMOD]

46. He's not a Democrat. He's made that very clear.

He's not trying to help down ticket Democrats, who we will need in the Senate and the House.

He has said he wants to break up the party. Christ, his BFF in the Senate is Jim freaking Inhofe.

[wendylaroux]

112. would you stop already with the childish "he's not a democrat" shit? no one cares anymore.

what matters is the views and beliefs each candidate has.You check their past votes,actions etc.,and you go from there.

not to difficult to do. This silliness about "which party" everyone belongs to,it is gd hilarious.

I'm a Steelers fan,well I'm a Cowboys fan!! well you suck! no you do!! fuck you,your not a real Steelers fan,

blah blah blah

[KMOD]

113. Fine. I don't care for his narrow, shallow

platform. His priorities are more in line with Rand Paul.

His lack of understanding and knowledge on many issues important to me are downright mind blowing and insulting to any thinking person.

[wendylaroux]

114. there ya go,do you feel free now?? no more labels!!

for shits sake.

And Hillary really does not care about the working poor/needy. Bernie is the only candidate I have heard

say the word "poor" at all,out of everyone.They need help,I think Bernie would try his damnedest to help.

[kaleckim]

29. Which smears

Point them out. They're critiques of her corruption and her record. She and her husband were also instrumental in pulling your party to the right and her BFF has thrown open the doors for corporations within the party and at the convention. Responding to these critiques is not below you, sorry, and those critiques aren't smears. There is a reason why no one trusts her and why she has such high net negatives, and people like yourself don't help the situation.

[KMOD]

41. "pulling your party to the right" - quoting you.

Which party are you?

You are spouting RW nonsense so I do have a good guess.

[kaleckim]

53. RW?!

How in the hell I am spitting out right wing nonsense? My god, do you people realize that there are left wing critiques of people like Clinton and the Democratic Party? Ever heard of Noam Chomsky. Is he right wing? If you can't differentiate between left wing critiques and right wing critiques, you shouldn't be engaging in these debates.

If there are left wing critiques of Clinton, what would they look like? Face it, people like yourself are much more comfortable with right wing critiques because most of them are silly and easy to answer to. Not the case when you start discussing her corruption, NAFTA, the WTO, her record on trade or her hawkish foreign policy.

Oh, and you are dodging addressing the core of what I said. It is beyond any doubt that she and her husband were instrumental in pulling the Democratic Party to the right, they rose up on Walton/Walmart money, her largest donors over her career are banks and corporate interests and she and her family have gotten about 3 BILLION from those interests in their 40 years in politics. Not very "progressive".

Any rate, here is Chomsky on the Democrats, and on Clinton and NAFTA. I take it he is "right wing" too? I also guess that the people that shut down the WTO (which he fully supported) in Seattle in 1999 were also "right wing"? Would be news to the actual right wing:

[KMOD]

59. It's always the same thing with folks like you,

It's impossible to debate people who have their facts all wrong.

[kaleckim]

76. Like?

Don't mistake a claim for an argument. Which of my facts was wrong? Was the left's critique of NAFTA correct, did NAFTA have the impact Chomsky said it would, or was Clinton and his gang correct? Which facts are all wrong? I know the damn issues, have a background in economics, I know what I am talking about.

[Ghost Dog]

90. Very pathetic. n/t

[LondonReign2]

35. And he is doing it by polling better than Hillary against the GOP candidates

That's an interesting way to define "destroying the Democratic Party" I guess.

[KMOD]

44. The only reason he is polling better in some polls

is because 25% of his supporters can't tell the difference between a Republican and a Democrat.

This will be a non issue come November. The choice will be clear and the tantrums will be over.

[Lizzie Poppet]

70. "25% of his supporters can't tell the difference between a Republican and a Democrat."

That's a 75% better rate of Dem v Rep identification than Hillary (Republican Lite) supporters. Your center-right corporate tool may be good enough for you. Some of us have standards.

[fun n serious]

85. 100% of Hillary's supporters

Believe Sanders is NOT a Dem. While most said they would vote for him in GE.. Today is different. DEMOCRATS won't vote for Bernie.

[kaleckim]

117. ...

Last edited Thu Apr 7, 2016, 11:12 AM - Edit history (1)

"his supporters can't tell the difference between a Republican and a Democrat."

This election is far more complex than you people seem to appreciate. Either grow up or think about this more. For you to call critiques of her "tantrums" is so tone deaf it is amazing. As if people critiquing policies because they have harmed them are ranting and crying like children. I have said it before in this thread, I will say it again, the days where you could act this way towards the left and pay no consequences are over. People like you will probably motivate a lot people to either not vote or to volunteer for Jill Stein. I may be one of them and I could give a damn what you think about that.

[LondonReign2]

118. Sure, and 50% of Hillary's supporters can't tell a Third Way faux Democrat from a real one

Tell me, come November will the douchiness also be over? Somehow I think that will continue.

[Lizzie Poppet]

71. Projection worthy of the Bell & Howell museum.

Fucking priceless...

[leftynyc]

15. Is it possible

you're so busy pointing fingers that you don't see the posters on your side and the revolting things they say and post from right wing sources EVERY SINGLE DAY? I guess so.

[DebDoo]

17. Video conveniently skips as she's in the middle of criticizing the youth

[SHRED]

40. dang

I thought it did.

I'll look for a better link.

[arcane1]

20. I repeat: her top donors would rather lose to the republicans than win with Sanders n/t

[LondonReign2]

37. Her top donors ARE Republicans

[dchill]

50. Yep. More in it for them.

[merrily]

107. I believe that as well.

[mythology]

60. But Sanders supporters are pure as the driven snow?

It's a joke to say that only one side as behaved badly toward the other.

[ThePhilosopher04]

91. Yes, we are pure as the driven snow. We have morals, ethics and want what's right all Americans

and people around the world. It must suck to follow a hollow candidate, who stands for nothing but herself.

[Kelvin Mace]

65. They'll unify the party

after the GOP wins.

[upaloopa]

72. Stop the blackmail

[treestar]

83. +1

They never say what they want from us and they've already said they can't vote for Hillary so what do they think we are going to do? Vote for Bernie because of their threats?

[Mnpaul]

89. Stop the entitlement mentality

Quit pursuing the same failed policies over and over again and do something to earn the votes.

[Joob]

75. Hillary is always on the wrong side of history... at first.

I figure it's the same for her supporters.

[TheFarseer]

79. I always remembered primaries being over pretty quickly

With her, it's been a slog through the swamp both times. Unless I am just imagining that it used to be over quickly, this could be a sign that she is very polarizing and not a great candidate to rally around.

[Dem2]

88. Yes, only one side does this.

[SHRED]

98. Correct

All I've heard is Hillary going after Bernie supporters not the other way around.

[Dem2]

106. That's funny!

[beaglelover]

92. When 1/3 of Bernie's supporters say they won't vote for Clinton, I say 'Fuck 'em'.

I could care less if we alienate them.

[azurnoir]

99. good for you that's the spirit

[PowerToThePeople]

94. You want my honest opinion

This is the final push of a fascist take-over of all power structures.

The left needs to be thoroughly disenfranchised for the foreseeable future.

She is no different than any PNAC member imho.

[Beacool]

95. Pot, the kettle is calling.

Do you read the anti-Hillary posts here or just the pro-Sanders ones? Plenty of condescension and nastiness to go around on both sides.

So please, let's not be hypocritical.

[SHRED]

96. I've never heard Bernie go after Hillary supporters

Got a link?

I posted one from her.

[Beacool]

97. Plenty of his supporters are annoying enough to turn off her supporters.

[SHRED]

100. This is true

I probably should have left out supporter on supporter back and forth and stuck with the candidates themselves.

[jcgoldie]

101. Right!

I'm gunna stay home and let Trump/Cruz win cuz someone voting for Clinton hurt my feerings on the internets!

[PatrickforO]

102. Don't feel SORRY for me!

Where are the bones on that one?
What if the cure is worse than the disease?
Serve me up some pretty, pretty people
Serve me up somebody, I can believe

Don't feel sorry for me
I hate that look on your face
You say, "Just let go"
You say, "Come back home"
I say, "I'm just fallin' from grace"

Joan Osborne, Dracula Moon

[RufusTFirefly]

104. It's a brazen power move reminiscent of a destructive relationship

I'm going to continue to abuse and take advantage of you, and I dare you to move out.

Where do you think you're going to live? And how are you going to pay your bills?
Just you wait: you'll come crawling back to me.

[mmonk]

108. I'm for the human race and the common citizen

Guess I care about that the most.

[RazBerryBeret]

111. not good for the party at all

not sure they care tho.

we have a lot of new, energized Ds. Their motivation is to make a change, to somehow do something for their future. My 19 y/o son is one of them. Not sure he or his friends will line up behind any D like we will. that leaves a lot of energized voters looking for a third party candidate.