2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumTime for Clinton to forget about incorporating Bernie's supporters for awhile.
She needs to mount a determined frontal assault and put this thing away, once and for all, so she can turn to the GE full bore. She needs to stop worrying about alienating his supporters. No doubt, some of them will be permanently turned off. They will go sulk on the sideline or vote for some obscure third party alternative out of pique.
That's too bad. But I say let them do it.
I predict that it will be only a tiny minority of Sanders supporters who choose that path. After a little sulking, the grownup Sanders supporters, which I think most will prove to be, will join the fight, rather than sit it out and watch another Democratic President be succeeded by yet another Republican.
Do you realize that we haven't had back to back Democrats Presidents since LBJ won what would have been JFK's second term? And we haven't had democrat elected to succeed a two term democrat since Truman succeeded FDR? That was a LONG time ago. No way any grown up democrats or progressive independents will let this opportunity slip, no matter how hard Hillary takes down Bernie.
So I think Hillary has the right idea of focusing on decisively defeating Bernie now, and worrying about drawing his supporters back into the fray later.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)kennetha
(3,666 posts)she's been trying to win nice, not ruffle any of Bernie's supporters somewhat easily ruffled feathers.
Time to abandon that. It isn't winning her love from Bernie's supporters anyway.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Sanders wins in mostly little, mostly white states, caucuses, open, all factors working for Bernie. We're coming in to a series of larger, more diverse states where Hillary is expected to do well. Be patient.
In any case, attacking each other would not work for either of our candidates. We are the grown-up, responsible, decent alternative to the GOP candidates.
They know it. Both of our candidates have avoided the kind of nasty personal attacks on each other that would hurt the Democrats and do very little for either of them, if not backfire badly.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)But am less confident that she can win this just by sitting back and letting it come to her, on her "home" turf as it were.
I don't think she should be nasty and personal.
But I think she should aggressively contest Bernie's ideas and plans and preparedness. Much more aggressively than she has done so far.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)are critiquing each others' positions and plans, so no doubt she will.
Importantly, though, although the right wing is still holding their character assassins away from Sanders, mainstream media are finally starting to "vet" him. He's mostly gotten a free ride before, but being seen as a serious candidate by winning more delegates has consequences.
That disastrous editorial board interview a couple days ago is already being widely discussed, and it is not the first time he has revealed surprising ignorance of how he would get from the opinions he has held passionately for 50 years to how as president he would enact actual solutions.
Here at new The Atlantic article, "How Much Does Bernie Sanders Know About Policy?" http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/bernie-sanderss-rough-ride-with-the-daily-news/476919/
You know, most observers believe Sanders never intended or expected to come this far, so he didn't need actual solutions. For decades he encouraged change mostly as a gadfly criticizing and pointing out problems to others -- experts who themselves would come up with solutions, as he even points out in that interview. I think more than once, like when he mentions the SecTreasury.
Btw, this drawn-out process is frustrating for everyone.
jonestonesusa
(880 posts)Voter choice and candidate vetting is a bad thing?
Really?
jonestonesusa
(880 posts)Wisconsin
Michigan
Oklahoma
Kansas
Colorado
Washington
Nebraska
Hawaii
Minnesota
Alaska
Utah
OK, Vermont! Maine too, maybe? Nevada???
That's a lot of little white States!
White votes don't matter anyhow, right? It's not the 2008 DEM primary!!
Red Oak
(697 posts)hollysmom
(5,946 posts)attack on differences, not on personalities. stop with subway token crap, talk guns and maybe we could talk.
mythology
(9,527 posts)A loserer? The loserest? It is really mind-boggling to me that Sanders supporters keep calling Clinton a loser when she's beating him by a substantial margin.
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)Ron Paul will welcome them all back in a heartbeat though.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)Ron, among others.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)MFM008
(19,818 posts)rather see Trump or Cruz or Ryan talk that walk into the white house so they can be happy to vote against the Hated HRC.
Have the GOP get all 3 branches of the government to destroy everything we as democrats ( or RECENT democrats) care about.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)kennetha
(3,666 posts)So no need to try "incorporating" them by going soft on Bernie from here on out.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)So we're just supposed to buckle down and vote for the ones who suppressed our votes. Some may fall for that shit, but not all of us. Let her cheat her way into the WH if she can. It's the ONLY way she can win.
dogman
(6,073 posts)Is that the plan? Turn us all in to Busters.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)and stop worrying about how his supporters will react to the engagement.
I think she has held her fire mostly from fear of alienating them. But that has let him grow and grow. Time to stop it.
New York is the perfect place.
It won't be pleasant or easy. Lots of resentment will be stoked up. But it seems to me necessary if she really wants to close this thing out.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Your post is overlooking the gist of this election.
Increasingly people are rejecting duplicity, and most Sanders supporters see her as significant piece of a system that will not change until enough voters say NO.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)would prefer her to Trump or Cruz or Kasich or whoever the other sides ends up throwing out there.
This is just the heat of the battle talking.
Cooler and wiser heads will prevail.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)She is by some measure the "safe" candidate --although she has lower odds of winning the GE than Bernie. Time will reveal all anyway. We all hope count speculate prognosticate but despite trends facts & whatnots, none know.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)they will be depressed over the thought of a warmongering corporatist in the White House.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)will prove motivation enough for most adult Sanders supporters.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)"Adult Sanders supporters." Hillary supporters are getting more noxious by the day. If this attitude of arrogance and snottiness is what we can expect from a Clinton presidency, her administration would be a disaster.
At the very least, people would grudgingly vote for her and when she hits the first bump in the road, they will just walk away from her.
She had better hope and pray that the Democrats take the House. If they don't, she will be impeached before the first inaugural ball starts. If she does, she won't have a lot of support.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)she has to perform and deliver the goods. that true of any politician.
Politics is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of business.
I'm sure she knows that.
bvf
(6,604 posts)are worth a Clinton presidency?
Here's one adult Sanders supporter who has been told here more than once that Clinton doesn't need his vote.
Let's see.
Land of Enchantment
(1,217 posts)Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)Claiming he support Bush?
What a stupid ass thing to even try to paint him as. It only bringt into the forefront her flaws on this issue and shows how Sanders was on right side of History on thoses issues. She should be not trying to ever say Bush and Sanders in same sentence ever.
She voted for the Bush tax cuts
She voted for his Patriot Act
She voted for his war
That is just dumb politics. Her campaign is out to lose her this election if they are ones giving her this advice.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)said he is always criticizing Obama and Bill. Obama and Bill are not the source of our problems. the Shrub is. Everything he touched turned to mud. He should be running against the Bush years more explicitly and less implicitly against both Bill and Barack -- which he is definitely doing.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)but her supporters don't do the research.
For many this election is about Integrity, which is not negotiable.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)This is how Clinton loses the primary:
She is in no position to attack Sanders "frontally." Perhaps she is out of better options and almost out of time. Her internal polls must be disastrous for her to take this kamikaze course.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)hollysmom
(5,946 posts)how about just taking on the topics instead of posting videos and claiming he is a bad husband than crying to reporters that Bernie is 'negative"?
the Clinton Campaign is the embodiment of negative. and it is tone deaf - I swear when she starts talking about poor ignorant people who support her opponent, I wonder if she just wants to run for the office and lose.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)Lack of morals and integrity, and win at all costs. It's all about winning for her and fuck the little people. She will soon realize the little people fuck back.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)the only cost will be some increased animosity from Bernie's supporters. That's a cost. But it's time to be willing to pay the cost.
It's a relatively small one.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)nominated.
Stupid strategy.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)I whole heartedly supported Hillary in 2008, turned around and worked for Obama after she lost.
Bernie supporters will do the same for the most part.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)Hillary does not jive with those core values. I can't speak for all, but I know no one who will vote for her. Nobody.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)Her margin for error would be razor thin as it is, even if 100% of Bernie supporters were on board. She'll be lucky to get 60%. She will not be the next President of the United States. Zero chance.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)and this scorched earth strategy seem to be incompatible.
Wtf?
kennetha
(3,666 posts)more money for the Berne. More competition, more distractions.
If she wants this thing, she can't just inherit it and wait for it to come to her, She's gotta take it.
So don't count me in as one who things it's the math only.
Time to step up or step aside is what I say.
Joob
(1,065 posts)so keep thinking that bud
kennetha
(3,666 posts)but Bernie isn't the movement, he is just the vessel. A vessel can be set aside.
beedle
(1,235 posts)to start her own little country on a small Island in the Pacific?
Republicans hate her, Independents hate her, now she wants the democratic left to hate her as well.
If she does this, the votes she gets in the primaries will be about all she gets in the GE.
Kim Kardashian could run as an independent and beat Hillary if that's the plan.
Independents are a bigger group than either Republicans or Democratic voters. Many of those Independents are only involved because of Bernie ... they wouldn't be involved in the first place if he wasn't running, and once he's out, especially based on a 'scorched earth' strategy by Hillary, they are not likely to vote for Hillary. I assume they will largely not vote, but it's possible that a good number of them will indeed decide to 'scorch the earth' right back at Hillary and vote for the Republican.
And I know, that will piss you off and cause you to call them all kinds of names, but many of these independents are independent because they don't see a lick of difference between the two parties ... they want upheaval and real change, and if they can't get sensible progressive chance with Sanders they might just decide that even 'bad change' will at least cause the comfortable 'centrist' Dems and Repubs to feel some of the pain they are feeling.
And given the attitudes of Clinton and many of her supporters, one can hardly blame them ... Yeah, it may make things worst, but I guess if they can't convince the establishment types to share the 'good times', they can at least force them to share in the 'bad times'.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)elections confront voters with mostly binary choices.
given a binary choice between Clinton and Cruz or Trump, I can't really imagine many sitting it out and refusing to choose, especially once Sanders is no longer attacking from the left.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)I meet plenty of people who can imagine just that. The Democratic Party needs to pull its head out of its ass.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Nor do they care about policy, morals, ethics or basic fitness for office either, it would seem.
Getting the annointed one nominated is the end goal, period, end of story.
But in reality, I say bring it on, because every time she's on TV Bernie gets more supporters.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)But I think we're in for more of a fight over the next few primaries. I think Hillary has been too passive aggressive so far out of concern for alienating Bernie supporters.
What she has gotten is a surging Sanders and still alienated supporters.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)It "augured in".
jillan
(39,451 posts)kennetha
(3,666 posts)Ever notice how much it comes back to haunt them, letting the other team eating up yards so fast.
I think it's time to stop playing prevent defense and keep being aggressive on offense.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)even within her own party cause us to lose the GE in November.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)owes so much to wealthy people.
dchill
(38,532 posts)TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)Let me know how this plan works out for ya.
Z_California
(650 posts)How many times does one get burned before they learn not to play with lies?
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)So because Bernie doesn't play dirty, it's now in the open that Hillary has been playing dirty ever since the civil rights smears when going south.
The desperation thickens. Besides, NYC is Bernie Sanders' home terf. Not Hillary. She does have a home with Wall Street bankers, but New York state is not her home state. It's Bernie's home state.
Being a senator for a state doesn't make it your "home state".
Unless you give Hillary three home states, and deny Bernie's New York roots?
Compared, he's the one with the Brooklyn accent.
She seems to be a cameleon.
hopeforchange2008
(610 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Some Sanders supporters are going to be angry no matter how she wins; I don't see how pampering them will help that. If they are not going to vote for her, they have already decided that. Business is business, and it's time to wrap things up.