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kennetha

(3,666 posts)
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:38 PM Apr 2016

Time for Clinton to forget about incorporating Bernie's supporters for awhile.

She needs to mount a determined frontal assault and put this thing away, once and for all, so she can turn to the GE full bore. She needs to stop worrying about alienating his supporters. No doubt, some of them will be permanently turned off. They will go sulk on the sideline or vote for some obscure third party alternative out of pique.

That's too bad. But I say let them do it.

I predict that it will be only a tiny minority of Sanders supporters who choose that path. After a little sulking, the grownup Sanders supporters, which I think most will prove to be, will join the fight, rather than sit it out and watch another Democratic President be succeeded by yet another Republican.

Do you realize that we haven't had back to back Democrats Presidents since LBJ won what would have been JFK's second term? And we haven't had democrat elected to succeed a two term democrat since Truman succeeded FDR? That was a LONG time ago. No way any grown up democrats or progressive independents will let this opportunity slip, no matter how hard Hillary takes down Bernie.

So I think Hillary has the right idea of focusing on decisively defeating Bernie now, and worrying about drawing his supporters back into the fray later.

63 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Time for Clinton to forget about incorporating Bernie's supporters for awhile. (Original Post) kennetha Apr 2016 OP
wow, way to solicit support for your loser candidate. n/t Merryland Apr 2016 #1
sometimes you have to win ugly kennetha Apr 2016 #21
IMO, you're just reacting to a series of Hortensis Apr 2016 #27
I hear ya' kennetha Apr 2016 #32
Others will be doing that. And both candidates Hortensis Apr 2016 #54
It is? jonestonesusa Apr 2016 #62
Let's see, little white States... jonestonesusa Apr 2016 #61
I really want to see what an angrier more vile Hillary Clinton looks like. Red Oak Apr 2016 #34
well taht is a way to win the nminationand lose the election - "good job" - Karl Rove hollysmom Apr 2016 #49
What does that make Sanders if he's losing to a loser? mythology Apr 2016 #46
"Good riddance to bad rubbish" is the adage that applies here. CalvinballPro Apr 2016 #2
And just what the actual fuck does Ron Paul have to do with this? morningfog Apr 2016 #37
+1 CorkySt.Clair Apr 2016 #45
The only problem is that she doesn't know how to do the "take down" part. morningfog Apr 2016 #3
well some would MFM008 Apr 2016 #4
sad, isn't it? DesertFlower Apr 2016 #8
Those kind are beyond reach kennetha Apr 2016 #16
Fuck this shit. Please proceed with your scorched earth politics. frylock Apr 2016 #5
The Clinton's cheat Politicalboi Apr 2016 #6
Good luck with that. dogman Apr 2016 #7
The plan is to actually engage Sanders kennetha Apr 2016 #13
She just shoots her own feet off. Voice for Peace Apr 2016 #9
I bet most Sanders supporters kennetha Apr 2016 #11
It is cooler & wiser heads choosing to courageously reject her. Voice for Peace Apr 2016 #30
Sulk -- more likely nichomachus Apr 2016 #10
I think Donald Trump or Ted Cruz kennetha Apr 2016 #14
Just can't avoid the snark, can you? nichomachus Apr 2016 #22
Well, once in office kennetha Apr 2016 #25
How many more dead American troops bvf Apr 2016 #57
......... Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #12
Let us look at her new thing she is trying to "take down" Sanders with Gwhittey Apr 2016 #15
She didn't say he supports Bush kennetha Apr 2016 #18
Her problem is she lies, and lies, Voice for Peace Apr 2016 #38
so she's not "inevitable" anymore? What happened to her "insurmountable lead" ? GreatGazoo Apr 2016 #17
That's why it's time to stop farting around and take down Bernie. kennetha Apr 2016 #19
god forbid this not be the coronationthat proves it is her turn? hollysmom Apr 2016 #50
Your post is exactly the reason why nobody likes her or wants her anywhere around the White House ThePhilosopher04 Apr 2016 #20
I'm not advocating win at all cost kennetha Apr 2016 #23
So basically you'd risk losing the ge to get your candidate Warren Stupidity Apr 2016 #28
I have more faith in Bernie supporters kennetha Apr 2016 #29
I disagree. Bernie supporters have ethics and core values which drive them. Pulling the lever ThePhilosopher04 Apr 2016 #44
She cannot win the White House without an overwhelming number of Bernie supporters. ThePhilosopher04 Apr 2016 #40
Help me out. Wisconsin didn't matter #dothemath Warren Stupidity Apr 2016 #24
Wisconsin does matter kennetha Apr 2016 #26
Yeah okay, movemens don't get put down. I hope she doesn't realize this so it hurts her more anyways Joob Apr 2016 #31
you are right, the movement won't get put down. kennetha Apr 2016 #35
Would she also have a plan beedle Apr 2016 #33
I don't know kennetha Apr 2016 #41
you need to get out of your bubble more ibegurpard Apr 2016 #55
There ya go! "Real democrats" don't give a shit about winning elections. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2016 #36
Well, we'll see. kennetha Apr 2016 #39
In aviation parlance, this post is what's known as a "smokin' hole". cherokeeprogressive Apr 2016 #42
Go right ahead but don't post how upset you are that Trump is our new President. jillan Apr 2016 #43
It's like teams that play prevent defense when they are ahead by a couple of scores kennetha Apr 2016 #47
I plan to vote for whoever is the nominee...But not if she follows your advice Armstead Apr 2016 #48
She needs to leave the race, before her e-mail woes, polarizing quality, and lack of support highprincipleswork Apr 2016 #51
Your candidate will never represent the people, she cannot because she's JRLeft Apr 2016 #52
And THIS is how her campaign ends. dchill Apr 2016 #53
More Hillary-ous Comedy! TheSarcastinator Apr 2016 #56
It's funny that she and her campaign still think dishonest smears will help her Z_California Apr 2016 #58
Yet Bernie needs to "watch his tone".... Bohemianwriter Apr 2016 #59
Yeah - that worked so well in 2008. hopeforchange2008 Apr 2016 #60
Yes, it's the right move now, if not sooner. She's going to win, time to tie up the losse ends now. Lil Missy Apr 2016 #63

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
21. sometimes you have to win ugly
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:55 PM
Apr 2016

she's been trying to win nice, not ruffle any of Bernie's supporters somewhat easily ruffled feathers.

Time to abandon that. It isn't winning her love from Bernie's supporters anyway.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
27. IMO, you're just reacting to a series of
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:59 PM
Apr 2016

Sanders wins in mostly little, mostly white states, caucuses, open, all factors working for Bernie. We're coming in to a series of larger, more diverse states where Hillary is expected to do well. Be patient.

In any case, attacking each other would not work for either of our candidates. We are the grown-up, responsible, decent alternative to the GOP candidates.

They know it. Both of our candidates have avoided the kind of nasty personal attacks on each other that would hurt the Democrats and do very little for either of them, if not backfire badly.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
32. I hear ya'
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:03 PM
Apr 2016

But am less confident that she can win this just by sitting back and letting it come to her, on her "home" turf as it were.

I don't think she should be nasty and personal.

But I think she should aggressively contest Bernie's ideas and plans and preparedness. Much more aggressively than she has done so far.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
54. Others will be doing that. And both candidates
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:36 PM
Apr 2016

are critiquing each others' positions and plans, so no doubt she will.

Importantly, though, although the right wing is still holding their character assassins away from Sanders, mainstream media are finally starting to "vet" him. He's mostly gotten a free ride before, but being seen as a serious candidate by winning more delegates has consequences.

That disastrous editorial board interview a couple days ago is already being widely discussed, and it is not the first time he has revealed surprising ignorance of how he would get from the opinions he has held passionately for 50 years to how as president he would enact actual solutions.

Here at new The Atlantic article, "How Much Does Bernie Sanders Know About Policy?" http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/bernie-sanderss-rough-ride-with-the-daily-news/476919/

You know, most observers believe Sanders never intended or expected to come this far, so he didn't need actual solutions. For decades he encouraged change mostly as a gadfly criticizing and pointing out problems to others -- experts who themselves would come up with solutions, as he even points out in that interview. I think more than once, like when he mentions the SecTreasury.

Btw, this drawn-out process is frustrating for everyone.

jonestonesusa

(880 posts)
61. Let's see, little white States...
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 06:36 PM
Apr 2016

Wisconsin
Michigan
Oklahoma
Kansas
Colorado
Washington
Nebraska
Hawaii
Minnesota
Alaska
Utah

OK, Vermont! Maine too, maybe? Nevada???

That's a lot of little white States!

White votes don't matter anyhow, right? It's not the 2008 DEM primary!!

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
49. well taht is a way to win the nminationand lose the election - "good job" - Karl Rove
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:26 PM
Apr 2016

attack on differences, not on personalities. stop with subway token crap, talk guns and maybe we could talk.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
46. What does that make Sanders if he's losing to a loser?
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:16 PM
Apr 2016

A loserer? The loserest? It is really mind-boggling to me that Sanders supporters keep calling Clinton a loser when she's beating him by a substantial margin.

 

CalvinballPro

(1,019 posts)
2. "Good riddance to bad rubbish" is the adage that applies here.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:41 PM
Apr 2016

Ron Paul will welcome them all back in a heartbeat though.

MFM008

(19,818 posts)
4. well some would
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:42 PM
Apr 2016

rather see Trump or Cruz or Ryan talk that walk into the white house so they can be happy to vote against the Hated HRC.
Have the GOP get all 3 branches of the government to destroy everything we as democrats ( or RECENT democrats) care about.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
16. Those kind are beyond reach
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:51 PM
Apr 2016

So no need to try "incorporating" them by going soft on Bernie from here on out.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
6. The Clinton's cheat
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:45 PM
Apr 2016

So we're just supposed to buckle down and vote for the ones who suppressed our votes. Some may fall for that shit, but not all of us. Let her cheat her way into the WH if she can. It's the ONLY way she can win.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
13. The plan is to actually engage Sanders
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:49 PM
Apr 2016

and stop worrying about how his supporters will react to the engagement.

I think she has held her fire mostly from fear of alienating them. But that has let him grow and grow. Time to stop it.

New York is the perfect place.

It won't be pleasant or easy. Lots of resentment will be stoked up. But it seems to me necessary if she really wants to close this thing out.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
9. She just shoots her own feet off.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:46 PM
Apr 2016

Your post is overlooking the gist of this election.
Increasingly people are rejecting duplicity, and most Sanders supporters see her as significant piece of a system that will not change until enough voters say NO.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
11. I bet most Sanders supporters
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:47 PM
Apr 2016

would prefer her to Trump or Cruz or Kasich or whoever the other sides ends up throwing out there.

This is just the heat of the battle talking.

Cooler and wiser heads will prevail.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
30. It is cooler & wiser heads choosing to courageously reject her.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:01 PM
Apr 2016

She is by some measure the "safe" candidate --although she has lower odds of winning the GE than Bernie. Time will reveal all anyway. We all hope count speculate prognosticate but despite trends facts & whatnots, none know.

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
10. Sulk -- more likely
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:46 PM
Apr 2016

they will be depressed over the thought of a warmongering corporatist in the White House.

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
22. Just can't avoid the snark, can you?
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:55 PM
Apr 2016

"Adult Sanders supporters." Hillary supporters are getting more noxious by the day. If this attitude of arrogance and snottiness is what we can expect from a Clinton presidency, her administration would be a disaster.

At the very least, people would grudgingly vote for her and when she hits the first bump in the road, they will just walk away from her.

She had better hope and pray that the Democrats take the House. If they don't, she will be impeached before the first inaugural ball starts. If she does, she won't have a lot of support.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
25. Well, once in office
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:57 PM
Apr 2016

she has to perform and deliver the goods. that true of any politician.

Politics is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of business.

I'm sure she knows that.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
57. How many more dead American troops
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:40 PM
Apr 2016

are worth a Clinton presidency?

Here's one adult Sanders supporter who has been told here more than once that Clinton doesn't need his vote.

Let's see.

 

Gwhittey

(1,377 posts)
15. Let us look at her new thing she is trying to "take down" Sanders with
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:51 PM
Apr 2016

Claiming he support Bush?

What a stupid ass thing to even try to paint him as. It only bringt into the forefront her flaws on this issue and shows how Sanders was on right side of History on thoses issues. She should be not trying to ever say Bush and Sanders in same sentence ever.

She voted for the Bush tax cuts
She voted for his Patriot Act
She voted for his war

That is just dumb politics. Her campaign is out to lose her this election if they are ones giving her this advice.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
18. She didn't say he supports Bush
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:53 PM
Apr 2016

said he is always criticizing Obama and Bill. Obama and Bill are not the source of our problems. the Shrub is. Everything he touched turned to mud. He should be running against the Bush years more explicitly and less implicitly against both Bill and Barack -- which he is definitely doing.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
38. Her problem is she lies, and lies,
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:06 PM
Apr 2016

but her supporters don't do the research.

For many this election is about Integrity, which is not negotiable.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
17. so she's not "inevitable" anymore? What happened to her "insurmountable lead" ?
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:52 PM
Apr 2016

This is how Clinton loses the primary:



She is in no position to attack Sanders "frontally." Perhaps she is out of better options and almost out of time. Her internal polls must be disastrous for her to take this kamikaze course.



hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
50. god forbid this not be the coronationthat proves it is her turn?
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:30 PM
Apr 2016

how about just taking on the topics instead of posting videos and claiming he is a bad husband than crying to reporters that Bernie is 'negative"?
the Clinton Campaign is the embodiment of negative. and it is tone deaf - I swear when she starts talking about poor ignorant people who support her opponent, I wonder if she just wants to run for the office and lose.

 

ThePhilosopher04

(1,732 posts)
20. Your post is exactly the reason why nobody likes her or wants her anywhere around the White House
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:54 PM
Apr 2016

Lack of morals and integrity, and win at all costs. It's all about winning for her and fuck the little people. She will soon realize the little people fuck back.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
23. I'm not advocating win at all cost
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:56 PM
Apr 2016

the only cost will be some increased animosity from Bernie's supporters. That's a cost. But it's time to be willing to pay the cost.

It's a relatively small one.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
29. I have more faith in Bernie supporters
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:00 PM
Apr 2016

I whole heartedly supported Hillary in 2008, turned around and worked for Obama after she lost.

Bernie supporters will do the same for the most part.

 

ThePhilosopher04

(1,732 posts)
44. I disagree. Bernie supporters have ethics and core values which drive them. Pulling the lever
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:14 PM
Apr 2016

Hillary does not jive with those core values. I can't speak for all, but I know no one who will vote for her. Nobody.

 

ThePhilosopher04

(1,732 posts)
40. She cannot win the White House without an overwhelming number of Bernie supporters.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:11 PM
Apr 2016

Her margin for error would be razor thin as it is, even if 100% of Bernie supporters were on board. She'll be lucky to get 60%. She will not be the next President of the United States. Zero chance.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
24. Help me out. Wisconsin didn't matter #dothemath
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:57 PM
Apr 2016

and this scorched earth strategy seem to be incompatible.

Wtf?

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
26. Wisconsin does matter
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 04:59 PM
Apr 2016

more money for the Berne. More competition, more distractions.

If she wants this thing, she can't just inherit it and wait for it to come to her, She's gotta take it.

So don't count me in as one who things it's the math only.

Time to step up or step aside is what I say.

Joob

(1,065 posts)
31. Yeah okay, movemens don't get put down. I hope she doesn't realize this so it hurts her more anyways
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:02 PM
Apr 2016

so keep thinking that bud

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
35. you are right, the movement won't get put down.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:04 PM
Apr 2016

but Bernie isn't the movement, he is just the vessel. A vessel can be set aside.

 

beedle

(1,235 posts)
33. Would she also have a plan
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:03 PM
Apr 2016

to start her own little country on a small Island in the Pacific?

Republicans hate her, Independents hate her, now she wants the democratic left to hate her as well.

If she does this, the votes she gets in the primaries will be about all she gets in the GE.

Kim Kardashian could run as an independent and beat Hillary if that's the plan.

Independents are a bigger group than either Republicans or Democratic voters. Many of those Independents are only involved because of Bernie ... they wouldn't be involved in the first place if he wasn't running, and once he's out, especially based on a 'scorched earth' strategy by Hillary, they are not likely to vote for Hillary. I assume they will largely not vote, but it's possible that a good number of them will indeed decide to 'scorch the earth' right back at Hillary and vote for the Republican.

And I know, that will piss you off and cause you to call them all kinds of names, but many of these independents are independent because they don't see a lick of difference between the two parties ... they want upheaval and real change, and if they can't get sensible progressive chance with Sanders they might just decide that even 'bad change' will at least cause the comfortable 'centrist' Dems and Repubs to feel some of the pain they are feeling.

And given the attitudes of Clinton and many of her supporters, one can hardly blame them ... Yeah, it may make things worst, but I guess if they can't convince the establishment types to share the 'good times', they can at least force them to share in the 'bad times'.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
41. I don't know
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:11 PM
Apr 2016

elections confront voters with mostly binary choices.

given a binary choice between Clinton and Cruz or Trump, I can't really imagine many sitting it out and refusing to choose, especially once Sanders is no longer attacking from the left.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
55. you need to get out of your bubble more
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:38 PM
Apr 2016

I meet plenty of people who can imagine just that. The Democratic Party needs to pull its head out of its ass.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
36. There ya go! "Real democrats" don't give a shit about winning elections.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:06 PM
Apr 2016

Nor do they care about policy, morals, ethics or basic fitness for office either, it would seem.

Getting the annointed one nominated is the end goal, period, end of story.

But in reality, I say bring it on, because every time she's on TV Bernie gets more supporters.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
39. Well, we'll see.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:09 PM
Apr 2016

But I think we're in for more of a fight over the next few primaries. I think Hillary has been too passive aggressive so far out of concern for alienating Bernie supporters.

What she has gotten is a surging Sanders and still alienated supporters.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
47. It's like teams that play prevent defense when they are ahead by a couple of scores
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:20 PM
Apr 2016

Ever notice how much it comes back to haunt them, letting the other team eating up yards so fast.

I think it's time to stop playing prevent defense and keep being aggressive on offense.

 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
51. She needs to leave the race, before her e-mail woes, polarizing quality, and lack of support
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:33 PM
Apr 2016

even within her own party cause us to lose the GE in November.

 

JRLeft

(7,010 posts)
52. Your candidate will never represent the people, she cannot because she's
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:34 PM
Apr 2016

owes so much to wealthy people.

Z_California

(650 posts)
58. It's funny that she and her campaign still think dishonest smears will help her
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:42 PM
Apr 2016

How many times does one get burned before they learn not to play with lies?

 

Bohemianwriter

(978 posts)
59. Yet Bernie needs to "watch his tone"....
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 05:43 PM
Apr 2016

So because Bernie doesn't play dirty, it's now in the open that Hillary has been playing dirty ever since the civil rights smears when going south.

The desperation thickens. Besides, NYC is Bernie Sanders' home terf. Not Hillary. She does have a home with Wall Street bankers, but New York state is not her home state. It's Bernie's home state.

Being a senator for a state doesn't make it your "home state".

Unless you give Hillary three home states, and deny Bernie's New York roots?

Compared, he's the one with the Brooklyn accent.

She seems to be a cameleon.

Lil Missy

(17,865 posts)
63. Yes, it's the right move now, if not sooner. She's going to win, time to tie up the losse ends now.
Wed Apr 6, 2016, 06:54 PM
Apr 2016

Some Sanders supporters are going to be angry no matter how she wins; I don't see how pampering them will help that. If they are not going to vote for her, they have already decided that. Business is business, and it's time to wrap things up.

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