Clinton: New York criminals get guns from Vermont

[B2G]

Clinton: New York criminals get guns from Vermont

By Jimmy Vielkind 6:09 p.m. | Apr. 4, 2016
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ALBANY — Hillary Clinton ratcheted up her attacks on Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders' gun control record Monday, telling a private gathering of state legislators near the State Capitol that many of the guns used by New York criminals come across the border from the Green Mountain State.

“She said she wants to work to get illegal guns off the street and said it's been part of her work as an elected official to strengthen laws to keep America safe. She said that it's going to be coming out in the very near future that many of the catastrophes that have taken human lives in the State of New York have been the product of guns coming over the border from Vermont,” said State Sen. Tim Kennedy, a Democrat from Buffalo. “That's the first I heard it. I think it caught everybody's attention and we're looking forward to learning more about it.”

Clinton, who represented the Empire State for eight years in the U.S. Senate before she was tapped as President Obama's first secretary of state, has been hammering Sanders' record on gun control in states — including New York — with major urban populations.

On Sunday, Clinton told worshipers at the Christian Cultural Center in Brooklyn's Canarsie neighborhood that there was a “big difference” between her and Sanders on the issue, and that he “has voted with the National Rifle Association and the big gun lobby.”

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/albany/2016/04/8595700/clinton-new-york-criminals-get-guns-vermont


Except they don't:

[Xipe Totec]

1. Banksters don't need guns nt

[kristopher]

119. Vermont accounted for 1.9% of the guns

Evil Bernie!!!!

I hope Clinton keeps this up.

[scscholar]

157. For such a small state, that's terrible

Those people should be ashamed of what they're doing.

[kristopher]

162. That's nonsense - even for Bagdad Hill.

The guns are coming up I95 out of the south.

Hillary doesn't give shit about gun violence. She was 100% Annie Oakley when she was last campaigning in PA. Did she think we'd forget or doesn't she have Google on that not-approved-for-classified-information BlackBerry?

[morningfog]

2. Aw yeah, here we go! The next two weeks will be epic.

[B2G]

4. Her strategy will evidently be to lie her way to NY. nt

[msanthrope]

29. Except that she's correct. Do the math...VT, population 700k, supplies

almost the same number of guns as CT... that state has a population of about three and a half million. And note that New Jersey the population of almost nine million supplies less guns in Vermont......

Proportionally Vermont provides way too many guns.

[JonLeibowitz]

55. And as a US Senator representing VT at the national level, I suppose that's Sanders' fault?

[msanthrope]

58. I didn't bring up Sanders. Just pointed out that HRC was correct. nt

[JonLeibowitz]

61. Sure I doubt I disagree on the numbers. But the subtext of her remarks is crystal clear.

[riderinthestorm]

64. There's no subtext. She's explicitly saying it

ALBANY — Hillary Clinton ratcheted up her attacks on Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders' gun control record Monday, telling a private gathering of state legislators near the State Capitol that many of the guns used by New York criminals come across the border from the Green Mountain State. 

[msanthrope]

66. You will have to take it up with the OP....I didn't post the article, merely noted the math supports

HRC'S claims.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

115. No the math doesn't support YOUR claim.

Somehow, you've twisted her stance from "many" coming from Vermont to a non-existent per capita argument.

Total traceable is 4855 divided by 55 from Vermont = .011%

[msanthrope]

117. Like I said....VT haw a population of 700k. 55 guns. CT, 3.5 mil. 57 guns.

NJ has 9 mil.....few guns than Vermont.....

Proportionally.....that's a shitload of guns from such a small state.

[TeddyR]

140. What does Vermont's population have to do with anything

She didn't claim Vermonters are coming across the border killing New Yorkers. She claimed that a bunch of guns used in NY murders come from Vermont. You are trying to explain away Hills' misstatement by arguing she said something that she didn't say.

[kristopher]

122. They snared you into another error - total traceable (state identified) was 4585

Per the OP graphic

[Hassin Bin Sober]

126. Thanks I corrected it. That makes HRC's and her surrogate's argument even sillier.

[riderinthestorm]

62. The article in the OP makes it clear Hillary is linking him

She's ratcheting up the attacks on Sanders by going after VTs gun sales.

ALBANY — Hillary Clinton ratcheted up her attacks on Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders' gun control record Monday, telling a private gathering of state legislators near the State Capitol that many of the guns used by New York criminals come across the border from the Green Mountain State. 

[msanthrope]

65. Then that's best addressed to the OP, yes? nt

[riderinthestorm]

69. Which I did in post 30 followed by your desperate attempt to derail

the thread (over and over) with per capita stats.

[msanthrope]

81. Senator Sanders is well-known in NY for his gun policy. Check out the front page of the

Daily News.

[riderinthestorm]

158. Desperate deflection noted nt

[CanadaexPat]

89. She didn't say proportionally.

She said a staggering number.

[msanthrope]

91. And she's correct. 55 is a staggering number from such a small state. nt

[CanadaexPat]

92. She didn't qualify in that manner.

This attack was rolled out poorly and is now being criticized by her own supporters. This shows what a lousy campaigner she is.

[msanthrope]

96. You didn't see the proportional issue just by looking at the map?

And why any Bernie supporter is bringing up guns today is beyond me. His Sandy Hook remarks are getting wide coverage here.

[AgingAmerican]

136. FAIL

[TeddyR]

144. I notice a few of Hills' supporters

Attacking Bernie's PLCAA vote but the vast majority of DU'ers are with Bernie on that issue. I'll ask you the same question I've asked others on the PLCAA -- under what legal theory would you hold liable a manufacturer who sells a legal product in a legal manner to someone permitted to own it, and that product is then stolen and used in a crime? Because that's what PLCAA prevents, nothing more.

[TeddyR]

142. And you are still misrepresenting what Hills said

I expect her to make misstatements, but why are you trying to fix Hills' misstatement by claiming she said something she didn't?

[Lazy Daisy]

101. She didn't say proportionally

She made a statement that isn't true.

She also said he supports the Charleston loophole. He doesn't. Also an untrue statement.

[msanthrope]

104. Math. I guess I see it automatically....and so did other posters. nt

[appal_jack]

112. She did not say "...relative to the population;" she said "many"

55 out of more than 7000 is not "many."

Less than 1% is not "many."

Your math is bad & you should feel bad.



-app

[beedle]

154. Maybe,

but the size of New York's population, or the number of crimes committed per VT gun does not change in proportion to the population of the state the gun comes from.

If we remove 55 guns from the source at VT, or we remove 55 guns from the source at CT, or 55 guns from th source at NJ ... do we prevent 3X or 15X more gun crimes?

Hillary supporters are suppose to be good at 'the math'???

[djean111]

3. The lies just roll right off her tongue, don't they?

Which begs the question - who really thinks there is anything she could say that would effect "unity"? She lies about everything, if she needs to.

[msanthrope]

39. She isn't lying... the source in the OP forgot to do simple arithmetic. nt

[Renew Deal]

5. According to that graphic, more guns come in from Vermont than New Jersey or Massachusetts

That's surprising

[pinebox]

6. I wonder where Hillary was on the gun issue

when she was running against Obama whom she said was "too liberal" on guns while she portrayed herself a church going rifle toting kind of gal?

[Sunlei]

7. how come so many trace to Vermont?

[B2G]

9. 55 out of 7686 is so MANY!

Lol.

[msanthrope]

16. It would be interesting to see a per capita breakdown...VT is a tiny state, but both NJ and MA

Had fewer guns recovered.

[Sunlei]

17. actually, NY state probably smuggles a lot to canada

[timlot]

11. Because Vermont is Freedom's safest place...

[link:|

[JackInGreen]

15. That 1397 isn't coming from vermont

it's NYs own number, Vermont is the 55 to the side by the (VT).

The arrows are confusing but they don't indicate direct state to state transit, just indicating the guns moving to NY in general.

[Sunlei]

20. Thanks, I see now. We need more stats, age of the guns & original point of sale when they were new.

[B2G]

21. Here is the source of the map

with some additional information.

https://www.atf.gov/about/docs/report/new-york-firearms-trace-data-%E2%80%93-2014/download

[Sunlei]

52. Thank you. Interesting-16 machine guns. I wonder about point of sale when guns were new.

And the age of the guns. Some may be antiques.

Someone lost possession of their 'new gun', the trace report should include point of sale.

[JackInGreen]

26. You're entirely correct IMO

I'd love to have a lot better numbers. Check the link that was posted for more info, some of the stats are fascinating.

[CanadaexPat]

8. Next up: Maple Syrup is the devil's brew.

[Renew Deal]

12. More like Bernie would get drunk on maple syrup and drive

[pdsimdars]

10. And what is Hillarious, is that this is so OBVIOUS. Who will believe it?

She has lots of bundlers, but her team are such bunglers. This will turn out a laughable in no time at all and she will bring more discredit to herself AGAIN!

[Robbins]

13. note

bernie has d- from nra.hardly in their pocket.clinton meanwhile has a former nra lobbyist hosting fundraisers for her.

back in 2008 she attacked obama as anti-gun.she is total phony on issue.

[msanthrope]

14. More from Vermont than NJ. Interesting.....also I wonder how that breaks down per capita. nt

[JackInGreen]

28. I'm looking at the map and at the linked report the map was taken from

and I'm not seeing NJ numbers listed, am I missing something?

[msanthrope]

31. deductive reasoning.

If New Jersey isn't on the map it's because they had less than vermont.

[libtodeath]

18. This is why people dont believe things she says.

[msanthrope]

24. But she's correct.....given the stats...VT proportionally supplies a shitload of guns. nt

[libtodeath]

34. Give me a break and look at the map.

[msanthrope]

36. I and other posters have pointed out that simple math really sinks the critique.....

Vermont has a population of 700 K. 55 guns
Connecticut has a population of 3 and a half million. 57 guns
New Jersey population 9 million fewer guns than both those States.

Simple math tells you that vermont is supplying an unproportional shitload of guns.

[B2G]

43. Per capita population is a worthless measure.

Try looking at state proximity and the length of the border. 55 is a surprisingly low number.

[msanthrope]

53. ok.....explain CT and NJ. PA unsurprising given the lax

laws.

[riderinthestorm]

60. There's no NJ figures nt

[msanthrope]

82. Read the title of the map. nt

[berningman]

45. So many guns. We're Doooooooooooooomed

[libtodeath]

46. My experience has been that when a person devolves into per capita nonsense

it means they are torturing statistics into a confession.
Keep sounding silly though.

[Lizzie Poppet]

59. Even considered proportionally, it's still a sleazy, misplaced attack.

Sanders has never held a political office which has any authority over Vermont's gun laws. He's been a mayor, a US Congressman and a US Senator, none of which vote on state-level gun laws. Even if one allows that those 55 guns are a significant issue ( ), using them as the basis for an attack on Sanders is either ignorant, sleazy, or both.

Nice candidate you got there...

[msanthrope]

67. It's called politics. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

75. The fact that sleaze is called (by some) "politics" is a perfect representation of the problem.

When misrepresenting a situation in order to fool the more-gullible sort of voter is considered politics-as-usual, it's a perfect indication of just how far from actual democracy we've drifted. It's long past time to clean house...

[msanthrope]

77. Bernie's stance on guns is well known in NY. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

78. That he's largely for gun control? That shouldn't be in doubt.

The fact that Clinton is trying to imply otherwise is where the sleaze factor arises.

[msanthrope]

79. Um, Bernie just came out against the Sandy Hook victims lawsuit. It's on the front

page of the NY Daily News today.......and on all the news stations.

His interview....wow.

[Lizzie Poppet]

95. For precisely the same reasons as voting for the PLCAA.

It's the right call. The tort system doesn't exist to serve as a way around being unable to achieve one's political aims. It doesn't exist as a way to recover damages from entities not responsible for said damage. I oppose that lawsuit, too. Bernie made the right call (again).

[msanthrope]

99. Do you think the Sandy Hook families want political aims, or some sense of accountability

and justice? I think Sanders is dead wrong on this issue. And I think crime victims should be able to use tort...... should a woman not be able to sue her rapist and the college which protected him? Should a father not be able to sue the murderer of his child?

Should victims of pedophilia not be able to sue the priest and the Catholic Church?

Why should gun manufacturers not be subject to our laws and our juries?

[Lizzie Poppet]

100. They seem to be demanding "accountability and justice" from parties...

...who owe them neither. Such demands should be made to parties who actually bear some accountability. Sue the perpetrator's estate. If that's not enough money, well...that's too bad. It doesn't create any right to be compensated by parties not responsible for the damage.

[msanthrope]

102. Judges and juries decide liability. why protect gun manufacturers from the legal process? nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

107. Those entities are free to rule against gun manufacturers in cases of genuine liability.

Defective products aren't protected. I have no problem with categorically prohibiting nuisance suits against parties with no actual responsibility for damage. Manufacture and distribution of a legal, non-defective product should never be subject to such suits. Not categorically prohibiting such suits leaves open the "hit the jury lottery jackpot" nonsense, which helps no one but predatory attorneys and the occasional unprincipled (or emotionally overwrought) plaintiff. it's a terrible, fundamentally inequitable way of addressing these problems.

[msanthrope]

110. Again.....why not let our legal process decide who is at fault? Why protect a gun manufacturer

who sold a battlefield weapon to civilians?

[Lizzie Poppet]

113. I already stated the reason.

Not having a categorical provision against nuisance lawsuits allows for "jury lottery" nonsense.

Military lookalike weapons like AR15s are legal products. If someone objects to their sale to civilians, they are free to advocate for legislation against such sales. This is a perfect example of my point: the tort system isn't intend to be a way around the inability to achieve one's political aims. This is a matter for democratically-elected representatives to decide, not random juries and local courts.

[4Q2u2]

141. I was given an E-tool as part of my Battle Rattle

It is a very small shovel. It was also designed to kill people.

The other examples up thread you listed ignores the fact that all those other lawsuits would be directed at a living person or organization directly involved in the action or cover up of the actions. Should the condom company be liable in a rape or sexual assault because it was used.

Without the terrible actions of a mentally challenged person, and his irresponsible Mother, those guns that were used at Sandy Hook would not have done anything but collect dust.

[msanthrope]

147. Again.....if it's so simple, why can't the legal process sort it out?

I mean, I can't imagine your average jury would not get your condom argument.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

123. Sandy Hook families sued the estate of the mother who provided the guns.

That's more akin to suing the Church, the murderer, the college and the priest.

[libtodeath]

94. They have no shame.

[Lizzie Poppet]

97. For some, winning is all that matters.

It's the sort of attitude one understands (sorta...) in Wall Street oligarchs and certain types of athlete. I don't like it in our so-called "leaders." Not one fucking bit...

[TeddyR]

146. That's not what she said

She didn't say "proportionally" that Vermont is providing a lot of guns. And in fact, the vast, vast majority of guns come from states other than Vermont.

[frylock]

164. The vast majority come from New York state itself.

[QC]

19. She's come a long way since her Annie Oakley days!

[desmiller]

111. I missed that Obama...

[DanTex]

22. And she's right, if that graphic is accurate.

Per capita, Vermont is a huge inter-state exporter of criminal guns to NY. In fact, since NY has roughly 30 times as many people as VT, then per capita VT provides more criminal guns to NY than NY does to itself.

[msanthrope]

25. Exactly......it's as if the OP didn't do the math on this. nt

[Kentonio]

90. Oh a HUGE 55 guns out of well over 4000..

Do you guys even listen to how ridiculous you sound any more?

But gee, if you consider per capita, and divide by the number of moose in each state and multiple by the chance of seeing a rainbow, then oh my god, Bernie is SOOOOOO bad!

[msanthrope]

23. Actually....that's a staggering number of guns, given VTs population....

You've got about 700k people in VT...

And they supply more guns to ny than a state with 9 million. (NJ)

57 guns from CT.... and a population of 3 and a half million.....

Statistically, Anyway you look at it, Vermont is supplying a staggering number of guns to New York.

[Skink]

27. We gotta move the hardware.

[riderinthestorm]

30. Lol... 55 guns?!

And this is supposed to "destroy" him?!

SMH

Vermonts gun laws are made by the VT state legislature and have nothing to do with US Senator Sanders...

[msanthrope]

33. 55 guns over a tiny population? Do the math.

The proportions are staggering... Compared to Connecticut.

[riderinthestorm]

35. US Senator Sanders has nothing to do with VT's gun laws

That's the state legislature's responsibility.

[msanthrope]

44. Thank you for conceding the point on arithmetic. Senator Sanders can disavow

responsibility as he chooses.

[riderinthestorm]

54. I didn't even look at the math or the map

It's utterly irrelevant to the point Hillary’s trying to make.

Chicago gets @ 20% of its guns from Indiana alone. The rest of the state gets massive amounts of guns from Indiana, Iowa and Wisconsin because it shares long borders with them and they have weaker gun laws than IL.

State gun laws are the real culprit here and if you (or Hillary) truly cared @ where NY was getting its guns you'd be looking at them (and the surrounding state legislature's responsibility ).

But I fully expect the facts surrounding this issue to be ignored as the meme du jour gets hammered today.

Its actually amusing.

Carry on!

[msanthrope]

63. That's too bad, because I think the OP went to trouble to post the map.

But thanks for conceding my point.

[riderinthestorm]

68. LOL!

ALBANY — Hillary Clinton ratcheted up her attacks on Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders' gun control record Monday, telling a private gathering of state legislators near the State Capitol that many of the guns used by New York criminals come across the border from the Green Mountain State. 

And I see you've desperately tried to make this about anything other than Hillary’s (failed) attempt to make some kind of link between Bernie and VTs gun laws.

[msanthrope]

71. Senator Sanders is well-known in NY for his gun policy. nt

[riderinthestorm]

74. If Hillary gave one shit @ this she'd be talking @ Chicago

And the gang/gun crisis going on there with the guns coming in from Indiana.

Chicago's gun catastrophe is well known nationally and needs real attention.

Yet she decides to chide VT over 55 guns in NY....and falsely tries to link a US Senator to VTs state gun laws? Well it only makes her look terrible.

Terrible.

Everyone can see right through it. It's exactly the wrong tack to take and seeing DUers contort themselves to try to defend this is kinda pathetic really.

[karynnj]

138. Exactly,

To put it mildly, I have no fear walking any street in Vermont's biggest city at any time. I was sacred going to a place on the South side of Chicago where a daughter worked at a Catholic worker program.

This would be as silly as Bernie accusing NY's former Senator with responsibility for NYC being a major source of illegal drugs that are a problem in Vermont.

[Eleanors38]

153. Yeah, where's South Carolina when you need it?

No offense to South Carolina.

[berningman]

37. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

[B2G]

38. .7% of the total is not 'staggering'

And population has little to do with this. It's because of proximity and a huge border between the 2 states.

I would have expected a hell of a lot more than 55 given that.

[msanthrope]

48. CT and Jersey are border states....so you've failed to account for the mathmatical

anomaly VT presents.

[berningman]

40. oh noes 55 guns! run for the hills vermont is coming for us all.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa

[Nyan]

32. If she were to make a negative ad out of this,

then it's gonna be in such a stark contrast to Bernie's positive, uplifting, issue-oriented ads. Hillary, Please go ahead and do that.

[Red Oak]

41. +1 Yes, this! We want more pictures of an angry Clinton!

Let's see that scowl Hill!

Now, grit your teeth like Dick Cheney!

Good!

On to New York!

[mainer]

42. Proximity is a big factor. VT is right over the border.

Makes it quick to transport them into NY. If Maine were closer, it would probably be a much bigger source of guns in NY, because we're bristling with them here.

[msanthrope]

49. CT and Jersey are border states....so you've failed to account for the mathmatical

anomaly of VT. PA is pretty high, but the gun laws there make that easy.

[mainer]

70. CT and Jersey have pretty strict gun laws; not Vermont

Which is why Maine, Vermont, NH, and Texas would make better sources.

[msanthrope]

73. Exactly.....and Bernie's gun policy is known in NY. nt

[mainer]

72. Coming from a hunting state -- a largely BLUE state

I completely understand why Vermonters have guns, just like we do in Maine. We just use them as tools. We also have one of the lowest homicide rate in the country, so there's no big push to tighten our local gun laws.

(Speaking as someone who has never owned a gun and hates them.)

[dr60omg]

47. Statistically?

How did you arrive at those statistics particularly when you have a small rural state like West Virginia supplying more and of course the guns being ran from Ohio and from Florida totally skew the results. I would also look at how guns were run because the Tennessee and California connections cannot be discounted.

But, you also realize New York is ripping off Vermont when it comes to heroin addiction. http://digital.vpr.net/post/states-drug-problem-feeding-underground-gun-market#stream/0

I abhor guns, I really do abhor guns. BUT since we have SCOTUS decisions about the second amendment: sadly ... there is a reality to it all.

[msanthrope]

51. I just had to look at the map, provided by the OP....and frankly, what I can draw from it

is that lax gun laws in states like VT and PA don't benefit New Yorkers.

[dr60omg]

130. Look at the map again

And see how many guns come from NY how many from other states and it ought not be per capita ... Look at the number that comes from NY itself.

And why is the map selective given the gun trade

[dr60omg]

50. Why did President Obama make a comment about Clinton as Annie Oakley

OH yes and remember this one

http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/05/clinton-mailing-attacks-obama-on-guns-008390

[Lizzie Poppet]

56. Clinton is apparently trying to attack Bernie over this, yet...

...what effect has Bernie ever had on Vermont's gun laws? State gun laws aren't made by mayors, Congressional Representatives, or US Senators. Even if you accept the premise that Vermont's small contribution to gun violence in NY is a significant matter (/rolleyes), Sanders has never been in a political position capable of changing Vermont's gun laws.

Legit issue? Nope. More sleazy Clinton horseshit? Yep.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

57. Looks like 26 times as many criminals get guns from New York. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

76. UNPOSSIBLE! NY has strict gun control laws!

[arcane1]

80. They’re going to be deploying a new strategy. It’s going to be called ‘disqualify him,’ ‘defeat him'

“They’re going to be deploying a new strategy. It’s going to be called ‘disqualify him,’ ‘defeat him,’ and they can unify the party later,”

http://usuncut.com/politics/clinton-superdelegate-lie/

This is the exact opposite way to "unify the party" and the failure will be 100% Clinton's fault.

[stone space]

83. Those 55 runaway guns may be bad for New York, but they are good for Vermont.

Vermont is in the middle of a real gun crisis.

Gun deaths have actually outpaced auto deaths in Vermont.

Vermont doesn't need those 55 guns back.

At this point, they should be melted down and disposed of.

Vt. gun deaths outpaced car accident deaths

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/vermont/2014/07/17/vt-gun-deaths-outpaced-car-accident-deaths/12756651/

[Silver_Witch]

84. Its about jobs! Not guns!

Blah blah blah guns. With the NRA in control their is no hope of controlling guns. Bother Hillary and Bernie have an F rating with the NRA!

Give people security, peace and end the constant fear mongering of the "other" and guns will be controllable.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

85. A Possible Explanation...

...I was checking in with the Albany County Sheriff's Deputies at Albany International Airport (ALB) for the purpose of a pre-TSA screening of my handgun.

Everything was in order, they put the handgun back in it's case and the trip went well.

Several months later, I saw one of the same deputies as I waited for my daughter to get off the plane, which was running late.

He explained to me that residents of Vermont who bring handguns to ALB face mandatory arrest, even though that is, in many cases, the closest airport to home for them.

The firearms are confiscated, and become part of the 'illegal handgun' statistics.

He hated to do that, but he had no choice in the matter.

[winter is coming]

106. ^^ Thread win. Thanks for this tidbit. n/t

[mainer]

109. Another +1000

A lot of legitimate gun owners who take guns across state lines, say for hunting or just because they're used to the feel of one on their hip, get in trouble when they're not familiar with the laws of the state they cross in to. They're not importing guns for illegal purposes. They're just bringing their personal guns with them.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

114. No go...

New York
New Jersey
Maryland

Do not enter the above listed states with a handgun not licensed/registered in that state. Period.

The rest of the nation is a patchwork of laws.

[mainer]

121. I know. My son (gun owner) is paranoid about other state laws

And he's always really careful not to violate them. But I suspect that gun owners in states where people don't think twice about having their guns with them might be taken by surprise when they just happen to drive across the state border.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

124. I talk to people when I travel...

living very near the NY border in both VT and PA is problematic.

NJ does not matter, no one carries there.

Non-resident licenses and reciprocity is the answer for most states.

[riderinthestorm]

125. Such a great point I'm sure Hillary’s supporters will ignore it

[Uponthegears]

86. Say it ain't so

Could it possibly be that Hillary's SUPPOSED strong stance on gun control is just a way to deflect from her TOTAL cowardice when it comes to confronting the racism-fueled "self-protection" racket so embraced by her middle-right base (i.e., the NUMBER ONE reason for the current easy availability of firearms in this country)?

[ibegurpard]

87. Jesus is she just making shit up now?

[hollowdweller]

88. New York Murder Rate At Historic Lows

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nypd-low-crime-first-quarter-2016_us_5702b0dae4b0a06d580653e3

[DetroitSocialist83]

93. New York Bankers

Rip off millions around the nation. Don't worry she told them to "cut it out!" Lmao, does she really wanna go down this road? Might wanna put the gloves back on, $Shillary.

[Fronkonsteen]

98. Utter Bullshit from Hillary Clinton

From the NY ATF report:

"...not all firearms traced are used in crime..."

"...The firearms selected do not constitute a random sample and should not be considered representative of the larger universe of all firearms used by criminals, or any subset of that universe. Firearms are normally traced to the first retail seller, and sources reported for firearms traced do not necessarily represent the sources or methods by which firearms in general are acquired for use in crime."

Moreover, the overwhelming majority of traced firearms were associated with simple possession, and the average time span from purchase to recovery was 14.8 years.

Trying to pin NY gun crime on Bernie Sanders is an act of desperation.

[jmg257]

103. Hmm...I wonder how many illegal guns in NY come from NY, Hillary's state...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-do-illegal-guns-end-up-in-new-york/

"90 percent of guns found at New York City crime scenes, Thompson says, originate out of state."

10% of all guns found at NYC crime scenes are from NY.

https://www.atf.gov/about/docs/report/new-york-firearms-trace-data-%E2%80%93-2014/download

3552 guns from NYC were traced in 2014.


+/- 355 guns recovered and traced in NYC were from NY.


Hillary was Senator NY for 8 years. She should feel very bad about this.

[AgerolanAmerican]

105. LOL

I can't believe that the Hillary forces are really dumb enough to pursue this tactic. Operation Backfire, indeed.

[jmg257]

108. "Backfire" is exactly what I thought - it is Hillarious! nt

[Buns_of_Fire]

156. I'm still trying to figure out what the hell Vermont's population has to do with any of it. nt

[jmg257]

159. I scratched my head on that too...maybe the number of GUNS in Vermont would be more useful? nt

[Buns_of_Fire]

163. At least you'd be comparing apples with apples.

I was thinking about maybe correlating illegal guns to square miles. Or maple trees.

But I think I now know why she's doesn't want to release the Goldman Transcripts©. God and Goldman only know what she said to THAT audience!

[DemocracyDirect]

116. People Can Smell Desperation...

... just like dogs smell fear.

Proceed Madam Secretary.

[vintx]

118. This woman simply cannot stop lying. nt

[thebeautifulstruggle]

120. F versus D- with the NRA

If this is Hillary's best offense, Sanders is practically a saint compared to other candidates

We all know why he specifically voted against the Brady Bill due to a provision that could punish the wrong people, but he was for a bill that distinguished between manufacturers and sellers who KNOWINGLY or NEGLIGENTLY sold weapons to criminals, but not those who accidentally sold weapons that were used in crimes.

Makes sense to me

[Octafish]

127. Lot of guns coming from the states once in the Confederacy.

More than from Vermont, anyway.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

129. ...in the Confederacy.

If they are cap and ball revolvers...

...get me one.

[Octafish]

148. Do you want to duel?

Burl Ives kept things fair in that one.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

149. Single shot deuling pistols....

Get me two of those!!!

[jmg257]

128. Wow! 55 illegal traces from VT (Bernie's Senatorial state) 1397 from NY (Hillary's Senatorial state)

I hope she is very very upset about her responsibility in this issue!

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

131. Dude...

...I'm going to do some man-scaping on my beard...

.... and get dressed up in my checkered shirt and skinny jeans...

...and jump into my Prius....

....and head up to Burlington...

....and stop into Starbucks...

...and then get me one of those 55 illegal guns.


Just to prove she's right.

Peace out, bro...

[jmg257]

135. :) Be sure to visit my sister in Vergennes - she'll let you

shoot her new (legal) Walther.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

137. Like...

....bang!

Wow.

Of course it's legal. It's Vermont.

The greatest self-defense laws in human history.

[notadmblnd]

132. And Vermont is being flooded with heroin from New York

That game can be played both ways.

[INdemo]

133. The Clinton Campaign is looking more and more like the Bush/Cheney campaign of 2004/

We know she has at least 3 Right Wing advisors on her staff but could it be that Karl Rove it working behind the scenes with Bill?
Really..all these Karl Rove/Lee Atwater Republican style attacks sure looks like Karl may be plotting the campaign strategy

Remember her attitude speaks for itself "By God I have wanted this for 30 years and nothing or no one will stop me"

[karynnj]

134. Sanders is not responsible for VT state laws - not to mention, NY is where most of the drugs in VT

come from. NYC drug dealers make a huge profit driving illegal drugs across the border and selling it in VT. Should Bernie blame HRC for that?

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/2016/01/11/del-pozo-lays-out-plan-combat-drug-trafficking/78636480/

[B2G]

139. Maybe Hillary needs to build a wall.

LMAO

[karynnj]

143. Forts along Lake Champlain could be part of it - closing a few bridges and ending ferries too

Then the wall along the land boundaries. Even then, tricky Vermonters would invade NY through Massachusetts.

[Vinca]

145. I thought Hillary considered New York her "home" state.

Unless I'm reading that map wrong, New York is at 1,397 and Vermont is at 55. Guess I don't quite get the point of her current attempt at smearing Bernie.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

151. Yeah... and I went to Harvard!

....once for about 15 minutes when I got off the Red Line at the wrong stop.

[jwirr]

152. Hillary has reached a new low.

[azmom]

155. Annie Oakley strikes again. N/t

[DisgustipatedinCA]

160. I'd call her the Queen of Lies if her lies weren't so very stupid.

The Halfwit of Lies might work better.

[Eleanors38]

161. Wow! DU may yet become a pro-gun site on the innertubes!!

The way the Hillary supporters are using the Gunz issue against liberal candidates, and the known allegiances by the higher-ups here not withstanding, the rank-and-file of DU may come away with a more reasonable position on the Second Amendment! I won't stand in the way!

We can see how the Gunz issue is really a politically boutique "cause," noted for its stunning lack of grassroots support, and for how MSM keeps it on life-support (see OP). What we WILL see, if Hillary gets nominated, is how fast she shuts up about Gunz, or belabors -- again -- how she was some budding Annie Oakley back in somebody's days.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

165. What is the saying...

“A Mind Once Opened Never Closes.”

[Eleanors38]

166. Ultimately, one can't prosper in America with a closed mind.