Realistically, what will Bernie supporters do if he

[MineralMan]

doesn't win the nomination? Everywhere on the Internet, including here on DU, many Sanders supporters are heaping calumny on Hillary Clinton, and doing so non-stop. Some of it has some factual basis, but much is just ugly comments, ugly graphic images or outright untruths.

Despite all that, odds are still strong for a Clinton nomination. She still has a substantial lead in pledged delegates from prior primary events, along with a solid list of superdelegates who have endorsed her and are likely to vote for her if she goes to the convention with the lead of pledged delegates. She has the support of what appears to be a majority of Democrats nationwide. If she's the nominee, they'll be actively supporting her.

So, what's the plan for those who actively oppose her and attack her online if she gets the nomination? Will all those people on reddit and Facebook suddenly turn and support the Democratic candidate for the general election. I don't see how they can, without admitting that their negative statements, images, and attacks were unwarranted.

It's depressing, really. While I'm a Clinton supporter, I would have no problem campaigning for Bernie Sanders. I haven't called him names, posted ugly photos of him, nor have I posted attacks on him from other places on the Internet. I won't have any problem supporting him if he manages to get the nomination. He's a good guy. He'd try his best to enact the things he proposes.

I still expect Clinton to be the nominee, and I'll campaign for her if she is. She's a good guy, too, despite all of the ugliness being posted about her wherever I go on the Internet. I know her history. I don't always agree with her 100%, but she'd clearly be a far better choice than any Republican in the race. She'll try her best to enact the things she proposes, too.

I'm not putting myself in a position, though, where I'd be unable to ethically support Bernie Sanders. I won't have to walk back any ugly accusations or right-wing propaganda that I've posted here or elsewhere, because I simply haven't done that. I'm a Clinton supporter, but not a Sanders detractor. That means I'll be able to support him enthusiastically should he get the nomination.

What will Clinton detractors do, though? That's what I wonder. How will they overcome their past statements about her in their minds so they can support her? I don't know. I couldn't do that in good faith. It would be an ethical problem for me.

I think this will be a real problem for people, many of whom are long-time Democrats. It's a disturbing possibility, I think.

Thats my opinion. Thanks for reading.

[SheilaT]

1. How about we worry about this around June 7.

Or, also ask the question what will the Hillary supporters do if she doesn't win the nomination?

This is just another one of the many loyalty oaths here, and it's getting beyond tiresome.

[brooklynite]

8. It's been clear from the beginning that Clinton supporters will support the nominee, whomever it it.

[redstateblues]

40. Yep. Not a Sanders fan, but I'd vote for him

[beaglelover]

151. +1. A vote which could end up costing me a lot in additional taxes if he's able to get his agenda

passed.

[Hortensis]

168. A crowd on TV cheered for both BS and HRC

the other day. Just a mixed crowd demonstrating enthusiastic spontaneous approval of both candidates when asked, with only a small number of calls for one candidate.

We should not mistake what happens in weird DUland for the real world. We are a self-selected oddball crowd.

[AgingAmerican]

54. No, it hasn't

[leftynyc]

112. Really?

I haven't seen even one Hillary supporter who wont vote for Bernie. Not one.

[AgingAmerican]

140. Yes, really

Here is a whole thread full of them for ya...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511253732

[leftynyc]

223. Interesting

Read that entire thread and saw only 2 who wouldn't vote for Bernie. 2. Perhaps I have a bunch of people on ignore (that's certainly possible although I doubt that's the problem).

[Bettie]

170. That wasn't the case in '08

and if she were not leading, I doubt it would be the case this year.

It is very easy to say "I'll support the nominee" when your candidate is in the lead and everyone has been told that it is "her (in this case) turn" and "inevitable".

In the end, the PUMAs voted for Obama. Of course, Obama didn't spend the entire campaign saying that he didn't need them and that they don't want them to vote for him as so many Clinton supporters say here on a daily basis about those of us who have the temerity to prefer another candidate.

[Chezboo]

216. Easy to say when everyone in the media and their distant relatives

have you all believe it's in the bag for Clinton. How about we check back in a few weeks?

[Warren DeMontague]

221. Yeah, I'm sure some would, or will.

Others are going to completely lose their freaking minds.

[MineralMan]

11. But, see, I'm worried about it now.

So, I posted that.

As for what I will do if Bernie is the nominee? I made that pretty clear in my original post, I believe.

I'm not asking for a loyalty oath. I'm asking how people will walk back some of what they have said, here and elsewhere on the Internet. That's a very different thing. Everyone will decide for zemself as far as I can see.

[questionseverything]

68. the way i read your post, you are saying if bernie doesn't win the nom

i should not support hc because if i do then i am ethically challenged

[MineralMan]

71. Well, you're reading it incorrectly, then.

[questionseverything]

79. your words...

What will Clinton detractors do, though? That's what I wonder. How will they overcome their past statements about her in their minds so they can support her? I don't know. I couldn't do that in good faith. It would be an ethical problem for me.

///////////////////////////////////////////////

i certainly am a clinton detractor i guess, if you mean i think she is corrupt

so if bernie doesn't get the nom and i suck it up and vote for the lesser evil according to you i will be unethical

not that i care what you think but it is an odd way to claim to support the democratic party

[MineralMan]

84. That was an explanation of why I do not attack Bernie Sanders.

I will have no ethical conflict, because I know how things sometimes turn out. See, I think ahead and act accordingly.

[JonLeibowitz]

86. How you choose to act is one thing.

Many of us are open-minded thinkers though, so what we believe is not tied to who we support. At least that's the case for me. I don't choose to dislike Hillary as a candidate: it's just what my understanding of politics, history, and the issues tells me.

[MineralMan]

91. How I choose to act is the only thing for me.

We all choose how we act. That's part of the deal, really. We are as we act, as far as I'm concerned. That's the only thing on which I judge people. Actions are the measure of a person.

[JonLeibowitz]

98. Yes but our decision to support (or not) Hillary is based not on our actions but on our thinking.

It's not based on a sense of hypocrisy over statements we have made. That's all I mean.

[MineralMan]

108. Interesting. But if one's thinking leads to actions, then those

actions may be subject to judgment by others. For example, a person might have racist or other prejudiced beliefs. If, however, that person never takes any actions on those beliefs, then we do not know about those beliefs and will not condemn the person. It is actions that determine how a person is seen and judged, generally.

Expressing a prejudiced belief is, in itself, an action, by the way, so those who do not speak or act based on prejudice are, perhaps, not actually prejudiced, or have an ethical mindset that recognizes that the beliefs are not acceptable.

Actions. I'm an atheist, and have been treated in two different ways by people who find that wrong. In some cases, I have been berated or otherwise treated badly for my atheism by some. In other cases, people who I know find atheism to be offensive in some way continue to treat me politely and do not show any malice. Those people do not bother me in any way. They are entitled to their believe that my atheism is an offence. As long as they do not treat me badly for my lack of belief in deities, we get along quite well.

They are acting ethically, based on their belief system. They have enough respect for me not to let my atheism interfere with our normal interactions. That means that I respect their ethical actions. We simply do not discuss religious belief and share other things that we have in common. We agree that each person may feel as they feel, but ethics oppose acting in bad ways based on those feelings.

Politics and religion have much in common, really. I have strong political beliefs, but I recognize that they are not universally shared. So, I focus on outcomes, politically, rather than on theoretical considerations. It has been my observation that things generally go better with Democrats in the majority in government. Philosophically, I am a socialistic purist. I know that pure socialism is not a possibility in the society where I live. So, I work toward the political outcomes that are the better option every election year.

I'm a pragmatist. I have always been a pragmatist. I will die a pragmatist.

So, Hillary? Bernie? It's a wash, as far as I'm concerned. I will not be the deciding vote, so I will support either, although I can easily find fault with both. Do I think one is materially a better choice than the other? Not really. Both will accomplish what they can, but will not get even close to what I'd wish for. Any Republican, however will do much worse. So, I'm a Democrat and work to elect Democrats.

While I'm a philosophical purist, I'm a pragmatic Democrat. So it goes. I'm not in the majority, so I vote for the better outcome in all cases. Others do whatever they please. I try to get Democratic voters to the polls. That's a pragmatic choice and I'm an activist for that. That's me.

As always, that's my opinion. Thanks for reading it.

[peacebird]

188. If Hillary wins over Bernie, I will write in Bernie as I will never vote for Hillary. She is too

compromised. Too neocon, too anxious for war, too corrupt.
I will never vote for the corporate status quo that is the DLC/ThirdWay. Been there, done that. Not voting for the "lesser of two evils" which really isn't the lesser of two evils ever again.

[MineralMan]

189. Well, OK, thanks.

You answered. Most did not. I hope you'll reconsider in time.

[questionseverything]

88. if by attack you mean telling the truth about hc,then i am guilty

so again you are saying that if she wins the democratic nom and i vote for her...i am unethical, plus many millions more like me

[MineralMan]

113. If you believe you know what the truth is, then you

clearly think you know more than I do. Good luck with that. I try not to make too many statements about what is true and what is not. I always seem to end up being wrong to some degree when I do that. Perhaps you have a depth of knowledge that I cannot attain. If so, then good for you.

If your screen name accurately reflects your philosophy, though, perhaps you should question how well you can identify truth in complex issues. I cannot say that I can accurately identify truth in every case. Perhaps you are superior in that regard.

[sabrina 1]

102. That depends on what you THINK but won't say about a candidate. If a person thinks a candidate is

not right for the job they are asking for, then they ARE ethically challenged regardless of what they say publicly, if the then go and vote for that candidate.

Why do you think that you have to say out loud what you are thinking?

Not to worry anyhow, Bernie will be the nominee.

I remember when on this site Bernie wasn't supposed to make it past last June, the HAIR, OPTICS, SOCIALIST, and the all the other nasty smears that only helped him actually. Because when I see a campaign that has to hire the likes of David Brock to smear their opponent, I know they are unable to defend themselves on the issues.

So do most people which is why Bernie is eroding her small delegate lead. In one week by over 104 delegates and we all knew that this was going to happen as more people got to know him So did Hillary's campaign which is why they tried, futilely, to shut down his campaign as quickly as possible.

[Major Hogwash]

217. I agree that talking up a candidate is not always a true indicator of how people will vote.

One reason accounting for it is called the Bradley effect.

Here's a link describing it --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect

[timmymoff]

104. If you choose not to say what you think

that is on you. The sad fact of the matter is the larger problem is choosing not to listen. Choosing to ignore. Let's be honest, what type of ethics does it take to support someone like Hillary. For years we have been speaking of special interest money in politics and then support the person who grabs the most from the very industries controlling everything. Not only that but how we always end up with lobbyists who oppose the things we are for in charge of them. I do not attack Hillary, I do point out her record. It may feel like an attack, but it's still her record. One long earned and one very well documented. With that being said, I guess I do not care to be questioned on what I may do, when you fail to ask what your vote will do. What it will allow. What it says of the current ethics of the whole democratic establishment.

[MineralMan]

111. In general elections, I vote for the better outcome.

You will vote as you choose, and I will not criticize your vote. But I will vote for the better outcome every time.

[timmymoff]

212. cop out

[beaglelover]

152. You're an adult, that's why.

[Bluenorthwest]

234. What silly affectation this stance is. The bulk of Hillary's 2016 DU supporters bashed her

unrelentingly in 2008. That includes yourself. Among those who are now devoted to praise of Hillary and denigration of Bernie are many who denigrated Hillary in 08 as 'too stupid to be VP' or 'a liar' or 'a racist dog whistler'.

If a 2008 DUer who said Hillary is too stupid to be VP can now favor her so strongly to be President, I'm not sure where you 'concern' lies with others who are not condemning her as stupid nor as a giant racist but are instead favoring the other candidate for a variety of specific reasons.

For those who bashed then switched such as yourself it would seemingly be self evident that such switches are part of politics. After the Primary. Not before. After.

[brush]

18. Ahhh . . . she told you in her post that she would support Bernie if Hillary doesn't win

[redstatebluegirl]

160. I will support the nominee of the Democratic party.

I have a lot of friends who support Bernie, half say they, like me, will support the nominee the other half are rabid about not voting for Hillary, some have said Trump.

[CorporatistNation]

200. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A REASON TO CALL BERNIE NAMES OR QUESTION HIS INTEGRITY OR VERACITY!

BERNIE HAS BEEN MORE THAN A GENTLEMAN CANDIDATE WHEN THE REALITY IS THE AMMO BIN... IF HE CARED TO USE IT...PROVIDES UNLIMITED OPPORTUNITY FOR A WITHERING ATTACK ON HIS CURRENT OPPOSITION..

[ibegurpard]

2. It's Hillary's job

To get people to vote for her. Good luck with that based on her record and sleazeball campaign.

[SHRED]

15. Yes it is

A point missed by those hoping for a coronation.

[closeupready]

22. Yup. +1000. And she doesn't want or need liberal votes, apparently.

At least, according to her supporters here.

[840high]

52. .that^

[azmom]

82. +1000000

[aquamarina]

131. ^^^^ This, exactly, this.^^^^

[Merryland]

134. With every nasty word or sleazy tactic

(like Bill breaking the law by campaigning inside a polling place) the Clinton campaign loses more Democrats.

[Ferd Berfel]

143. YOu miss the point!

It's her turn. You are obligated to vote for her or you're a communist and it will be all Bernies fault when the Reich wins.

[basselope]

3. I don't vote for Republicans.

So I cannot vote for or support Clinton. She is the embodiment of what is wrong with America today and the fact that the GOP out crazies her, isn't enough to make up for the disaster ANOTHER Clinton administration would be.

I will find a candidate worth of my vote and vote for that candidate.

[KPN]

4. How about let's not out the cart before the horse.

We can cross that bridge when he or she has officially won the nomination.

[MineralMan]

17. You can cross any bridge you want whenever you want.

I like to look forward, and have been doing so all along. That's why I won't have any trouble supporting Bernie if he gets the nomination. I won't have to walk anything back. I like Bernie. I think Clinton is more likely to be successful in getting things done and more likely to win in November. I haven't changed that opinion, but I haven't burned any bridges, either.

[KPN]

46. Who's burning bridges?

If anyone, Hillary by playing these foolish loyalty and not a Dem cards, "I feel sorry for Bernie supporters", " getting so sick and tired of the Sanders campaign spreading lies about me." The list goes on.

What will Hillary do to bring Bernie supporters on board should she win the nomination. That'S the more meaningful proper way to "look forward" as you say. If you prefer to look forward, how about doing it proactively by starting that discussion.

[merrily]

87. "Burned bridges, ethical dilemma." The drama is both unnecessary and laughable.

The Party has for decades been pushing LOTE voting: You may not want the Democratic candidate, but the Republican is worse. There's no reason that anyone who has been critical of Hillary cannot follow the lead of the Third Way-LOTE party she and her husband worked so hard to create.

[Blanks]

137. I suspect a great many of the Bernie supporters...

Are actually republican's trying to drag her down, depress the vote.

Obviously, not everyone, but it's seems OK to open with "I support Bernie..." and then go on and trash not just Hillary, but all democrats.

I'm like you. Yeah, I want Hillary to win, but I definitely don't want a republican to win. I'd rather people stayed more positive about their candidate and didn't trash the other.

If Bernie gets the nomination, I will support him completely.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. Are we to stop holding her accountable if she's nominated?

I won't.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

6. #IDidMyResearch and I'm #BernieOrBust

[merrily]

56. A write in vote for Bernie will not even be reported in most states. In some states,

it could even invalidate your down ticket choices. I think there are better ways to use your vote on election day, even if you don't vote for Hillary.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

58. I didn't say I am writing him in. I'll probably vote for Jilll Stein or just refrain from voting.

[merrily]

90. I thought the "Bernie or Bust" campaign was about writing in Bernie, if he is not the nominee.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

92. Oh then I guess I'm not #BernieOrBust... Just #NeverHillary or #OneClintonWasDamageEnough

[merrily]

96. It started as a pledge to write in Bernie in November 2016, if he is not the nominee.

A host of the Bernie Sanders Group was banned for posting a copy and paste of the Bernie or Bust pledge, plus a link to an article about it. However, I just googled and saw someone saying it was a pledge to write in Bernie OR vote Green Party, so I guess it has morphed. I personally think writing in Bernie is a very bad option for the reasons stated in my prior post, but I am not going to presume to tell other adults how to vote.

[peacebird]

109. As am I. #BernieOrBust

[whatchamacallit]

7. Eh... internet posters will have to walk back online statements?

People will vote how they want, and what was said in Online Vegas, stays in Online Vegas.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

9. i am sure that i will feel worse than the day the scrotus gave it to bush

then as now we have a chance to have someone that understands that our true enemy is ourselves

we are the problem

16 years wasted - and some want to waste 8 more

[brush]

20. What 16 years wasted are you referring to?

[SoLeftIAmRight]

37. Climate change and the sixth global mass-extinction event is happening now

and far too many think that we can just plod along

[StevieM]

175. You think the last eight years have been wasted?

How can you ignore all the good that President Obama has done?

He passed Obamacare

He raised taxes on the wealthy.

He dramatically lowered the budget deficit.

He greatly improved the economy.

He appointed two good Justices to the Supreme Court.

He began regulating carbon as a pollutant and providing emissions guidelines for power plants.

He made valuable investments in renewable energy research.

I think we are much better off for Barack Obama having been elected.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

208. Climate change and the sixth global mass-extinction event is happening now

and we plod along

at times like this - much more should be expressed

[StevieM]

214. What would Bernie Sanders have done over the last eight years that Barack Obama didn't do? (eom)

[SoLeftIAmRight]

215. ditch the witch

and vote sanders - we will all see

[LexVegas]

10. Most of them will get in line and support HRC....just like Bernie. nt

[SHRED]

12. Thank goodness I live in Blue California

I can vote my conscious without helping the Pubs because whomever gets the Democratic Party nomination is a lock here for the general.

I'll vote Bernie if he gets it.
Jill Stein if he doesn't.

[Fumesucker]

13. You overcame your previous judgement of Hillary Clinton

So I don't see why you would have any problem changing your mind about Bernie Sanders too.

[merrily]

100. Ouch!

[madamesilverspurs]

14. Thank you.

"I'm a Clinton supporter, but not a Sanders detractor." -- Perfectly stated.

[Ferd Berfel]

16. Realilstically, What will Clinton supportes do if the CGI

and the Clinton Foundation are found dead center in the Panama papers scandal?

Still support her?

[Politicalboi]

69. Of course they will

They'll say it's more right wing crap and close their eyes. They don't want to see any bad from her, so they don't.

[Ferd Berfel]

141. YEah

and it means that the Party is simply incapable of making the changes that are needed.

[Jennylynn]

19. No one Bernie sop porter has to walk back statements or admit any wrongs if we vote for Hillary if

Need be. We certainly aren't stupid enough to let Trump in, that's for damn sure.

[salinsky]

21. For the most part, the people posting the most scurrilous stuff about Hillary ...

... are not long time Democrats.

My guess is they'll do one of two things should Hillary get the nomination ...

1) stay home

2) vote Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, or some other third party candidate.

They weren't reliable Democratic voters before Bernie, so Hillary won't be losing much.

[Politicalboi]

72. Yeah right

I think those that support Hillary aren't Democrats. She is just like the GOP with her lies, wars, big oil and scandals. I made the mistake of registering as a Dem in 92 and voted for Bubba TWICE. Then Kerry, then Obama. Neither of those two were a mistake. We just don't like liars and cheaters, and I will not support her. You'll have to lie and pretend for 4 years if she lasts that long, if she wins the GE.

[Dawgs]

76. Not a good guess. n/t

[Autumn]

83. Your post is dead wrong.

[merrily]

99. Clueless memery. Most of them are long time DUers (unlike you) and much longer time Democrats.

[salinsky]

107. Yeah, right ....

.... I've voted straight Democratic tickets from 1996 to the present and will continue to do so until the Republican party is destroyed or regains its collective sanity, which I don't see happening anytime soon.

[merrily]

162. And? Some of Bernie supporters have veen voting nothing but Democratic since 1952.

[salinsky]

166. Yep, there are always outliers. nt

[merrily]

184. OMA (Outliers, my ass.)

[salinsky]

191. I don't care where you put them ... nt

[Buddyblazon]

233. I've voted straight democrat since '92....

I have voted dem down ticket every election since '92.

I have never cast a vote for a republican...

Which is why I won't vote for Hillary Clinton. I do not and will not vote for a republican.

[Mnpaul]

158. Long time Democrats who are firm in their convictions

unlike those who change them to fit a certain candidate or party position.

[Sky Masterson]

23. As a person who has many problems with her

Going back many many years, I will show up and vote for her.
The reason a lot of us are so against her is that we really really don't want her to represent our party.
I would happily vote for almost anyone else in the Democratic party than the one that may win.
Many of us want to stop her from being the nominee because she has a very substantial built in bunch
of people who don't like her no matter if it is Merited or not. No name in the Democratic party motivates
right wing voters to get off of their couches and vote better than "Clinton".
For the ever lovin life of me I can't understand how people can believe that voters who just don't like a person
are going to suddenly fall in love and catch that Hillary Magic. They wont.
Our best hope is that if she is the nominee that we fall in line mixed with a third party run of Trump.

[NCTraveler]

24. I think you put to much faith in the fact that those attacking Clinton here and elsewhere....

are Sanders supporters.

I believe a lot of it is ratfuckers taking advantage of the first time youthful supporters Sanders has brought out. They are making a run at their lack of political knowledge. That can be seen in the blatant ratfucking that HA Goodman is doing and who he is tailoring his writings to.

[MineralMan]

27. I'm sure that's true in some cases.

I prefer to think that most people are who they say they are. I'm funny that way. So, I'm trying to pose a reasonable question to those people. It's a question I'd have to answer for myself, had I attacked Bernie Sanders unjustly. But, I know that it would be a problem, so I haven't done that.

I just find all of this to be disconcerting, given the alternative in November, whoever it will be. I can't say how strongly I feel about that.

It's depressing, frankly, to see this kind of discord among Democrats, frankly.

[NCTraveler]

32. I don't think there is as much discord among Democras as you think. nt.

[Jester Messiah]

25. "How will they overcome" ?

Where is the motivation to do so? After all the alienation and condescension, what's our impetus to try? The specter of Trump isn't gonna cut it, I'll tell you that for free.

[onehandle]

26. A lot of the IDs online will simply disappear.

As if they never existed.

[JoePhilly]

30. Until to return ...

... around the GE ... then go away ... then come back just in time for the mid-terms ... then go away again ...

There are a number of folks who I've noticed only show up around the elections ... stir up as much disenchantment and frustration among Dems as possible ... then go away.

[MineralMan]

31. I'm sure that's true in some cases.

However, there are other cases where I doubt that will happen.

[HumanityExperiment]

28. Realistically?.... #whichhillary?

&ebc=ANyPxKrAxfeMFmP9bme6-TX43VyNbGHAXzkV5YyrqeMooFRxgcSwPxalEC_lb07Tob8ddI1tunMPCLPGzZpEf4TVbQ6AgXbiwQ

[MineralMan]

33. And you make my case for being concerned.

Sad.

[HumanityExperiment]

42. I make many cases...

On this aspect integrity and consistency on issue matters to me

So the question back to you is why do you accept HRC? She's republican light, cannot be consistent and lacks integrity

[Joob]

29. This may be just me but you want answers

I said this in a post earlier but I'm pretty much a new Democrat. Because all these years I considered myself one but never voted. Well I voted this year and it was for Bernie Sanders, he woke me up to the world of politics.

There's a couple things that I value and maybe it's because I went into the military young. Honesty and Integrity is something I value the most and it's what appealed to me to vote for Bernie Sanders.

Let's say he loses.. Then there's Hillary. Besides Hillary clearly changing some stances during the campaign what really gets me is, the money in politics. And it's so clear cut that there is without a doubt, something going on with her backers using the media to play out a narrative. They really want Hillary to be the nominee and they pushed her so much it became obvious. What I'm getting at is I'm no fool, and I know there's some sort of agenda. Big companies donate to Hillary, Hillary "has a list" This all feels very "Underwood" to me. Basically, I don't want money in politics and really don't like the way she's run her campaign.


It bothers me that we know she's getting big money from people but people are okay with that.
It bothers me that there is extreme bias from mainstream media towards Bernie which points to being controlled by some agenda.
Sorry, haven't had much sleep might be rambling but simply put.
Regardless of policies, her values are not my values, and I value my values.
I will not consider myself a Democrat any longer if she in the Democratic nominee, because the party won't hold my values in my perspective and I think that's fair. And would not hold it against anyone if they felt the same for Bernie.

[IdaBriggs]

34. I will have a tremendous problem supporting her as the nominee.

I have serious questions that I don't know if I can ignore about her ethics and personal integrity.

I may pull the lever for her (figuratively) in November. I may go third party for the first time in my life. I may sit home.

I will not donate, put a sign up or actively participate in GOTV efforts as I have done for Kerry and Obama. I may return to my old "Independent" status.

I like Bernie, but frankly, I am an "ABCoT" voter: Anybody But Clinton or Trump.

Cruz and Kasich also suck.

How did we get such horrible candidates for a national popularity contest?

Yick!

[Jackilope]

106. Re: horrible candidates

Establishment, Wall St., etc put their dough towards those who will deliver for them.

That Bernie has gotten this far is a huge accomplishment and has to be eye opening to the corporate puppet masters.

Honestly, I think unless we get Bernie, we are screwed. I have been a Democrat my whole life, shook McGovern's hand on Election Day in 1972. If HRC is our nominee, I join the fast growing masses of a Independents and may consider work and being an expat. I have absolutely no doubt she will sell us out. TPP, Keystone XL, retirement ruin with next and inevitable economic meltdown. I'd love to be proven wrong and eat my hat on that, but in my gut I don't trust her.

[merrily]

35. .

[Lordquinton]

36. What will Clinton supporters do is she wins the nomination

to heal the wounds, and attract Sanders supporters to vote?

[-none]

94. Probably go an a cleansing rampage

to purify DU.

[Lordquinton]

142. That's no good for unity

And it's a serious question. I see all the time Sanders supporters asked what they will do as if the onus is on them, but it's really on the Clinton campaign to mend the rift and convince voters to vote for her.

Ideally Sanders will win and we can avoid the issue.

[Arkansas Granny]

38. I prefer Hillary, but I will not hesitate to vote for Bernie if he wins the nomination.

Frankly, I've heard very few of Bernie's supporters say that they would vote for Hillary if she is the nominee. Many say that they will write in Bernie's name, vote Green party, stay home or even vote for Trump.

I guess we'll have to see how it plays out, but it is disturbing to think that they would be so ideologically pure that they would take a chance on a Republican being elected rather than support the Democratic nominee.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. I was ok with her until her claims about Reagan and the AIDS crisis. That and the antisemitism

her supporters on DU are so comfortable with have made me very strongly hope she does not become the nominee. That's the opposite of what I want in a Party. I'm a Democrat from a seriously Democratic family. I've never before thought twice about voting for the nominee.

[GeorgeGist]

41. What are you going to do to win them over?

[MineralMan]

73. I'm going to let them make their own decisions.

What I'll be doing, in either case, is canvassing and working on GOTV efforts to get Democrats to the polling place. That's what I always do. What will you be doing?

[jillan]

43. Isn't the real question - what is Hillary going to do to earn our vote? Insult us some more? Yell?

She keeps pushing us in the wrong direction.

[MineralMan]

75. She's going to be the Democratic nominee, if she wins.

Then, she'll be running against a Republican. That earns my vote every blasted time. I'm funny that way. We do better with Democrats in elected office, so I vote for and campaign for Democrats. The alternative is scary, in the extreme.

[jillan]

77. So using emotional blackmail is the only plan to earn our votes? Vote for me cuz the other guy

is worse?

Got it!

[jillan]

179. What is with you Hillary people? Did you really have to use the example of mental retardation?

Seriously???

I am the caregiver of a woman that has multiple special needs & let me just say that she has more class than you for using a group of people to insult someone.

Unbelievable....

#2

[metroins]

181. I have IDD in my family

And Trump can fit that bill. There are many classifications in the DSM V that can apply.

We're talking bishisms on steroids.

Way to ignore the crux of my post though.

[jillan]

182. When you use a group of citizens as an insult, I don't want to hear anything else you have to say.

Nothing.

[metroins]

196. Exactly as I would've thought

Ignoring a person using reality and you ignore it.

[metroins]

196. Exactly as I would've thought

Ignoring a person using reality and you ignore it.

[metroins]

197. Exactly as I would've thought

Ignoring a person using reality and you ignore it.

[TreasonousBastard]

44. The primary problem is confusing the more excitable posters...

on this and other boards with the general population of Democrats. Or the general population.

I am on a local town Democratic committee and deeply involved with two other town committees and clubs. I don't hear this ranting in real life. I hear a lot of local issues being addressed, and a lot about a hot Congressional campaign, but none of the rancor I see here.

Actually, the Presidential is largely ignored, since it is out of our hands-- most of us will vote for someone in the primary, but we know perfectly well that our county will count for little overall. Why, then, the bloodletting over it?

The general? We see it as a common cause to defeat whoever the Republican is. Most people I know can't imagine not voting for either one in the general and certainly can't understand the attitudes in these forums.

And now back to hiding these three poisonous forums-- I got in here accidentally through a jury request, and have been reminded why I hid them in the first place.

[Blue_Tires]

45. Many have already said they're either staying home or voting Trump

If you don't believe me, just look at twitter...

[think]

47. Hillary could surprise everyone & say she'd appoint William K Black as her AG

That might actually HELP get her some votes from concerned Dems.

But more likely it will be some Wall Street lawyer like Eric Holder.

She already said she's open to appointing a Wall Streeter to Sec. Treasurer:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/08/investing/hillary-clinton-wall-street/index.html

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-17/hillary-clinton-grooming-former-goldman-banker-become-americas-next-treasury-secreta

Still it would be cool if she really tried to be a Democrat who showed some real determination to change the current corrupt system...

[Goblinmonger]

48. I bet a good way to ensure their supports is to tell them they are dumb and don't do research.

That will make them want to vote for you if their candidate doesn't get the nomination.

[bettyellen]

49. I don't think there is much integrity in the uglier attacks we are seeing.

I doubt these people ever voted before, or will in November. They make themselves irrelevant except on Twitter.

[think]

51. That was helpful

[bettyellen]

65. I am talking about the fringe haters. Not going to win them over anyway.

Fools errand to try.

[riderinthestorm]

50. She's got to win them. Party loyalty is dying. Independents are 43% of the electorate

Frankly in my Bernie Sanders campaign office, most will vote Jill Stein because they abhor Hillary’s support for fracking and the Keystone XL pipeline.

If she'd have a change of mind on the environmental issues they might look at her again but frankly she's so untrustworthy on the issues why should they believe her?

In their mind, the planet is on the verge of climate catastrophe (truth). Voting for "pragmatism", or "incrementalism" is unconscionable.

[TransitJohn]

213. I like this post!

The Democrats can't seem to realize that they need to court liberal independents. They simply feel entitled to the votes while enacting Wall Street-friendly policies.

[Orsino]

53. Most Dems will vote for the nominee...

...much as they did last time.

The nominee will have to play a bigger game.

[SheilaT]

55. More to the point, and to reinforce what some others have said here,

What will Hillary and her supporters do to welcome Bernie supporters with open arms? To make us willing to say, "Okay now, she's the nominee and I'll vote for her." She, and they, have been almost uniformly condescending to us. Not a good way to make us feel warm and fuzzy and want to vote for her.

And of course, they'll bleat back that we tell LIES about her, as if bringing up the actual record of what she's said and done is lying.

No, I'm sorry MM, but this post comes across as an attempt to be kindly, but it still feels like another demand for loyalty. You personally have been more than reasonable and articulate in why you are supporting her, and you personally don't throw out stupid crap, but there's far too much of that, especially on this board.

Maybe your best hope is that Bernie does win the nomination.

[MineralMan]

78. I rely on people to make their own decisions. Always.

I asked a question. I'll be out campaigning for the Democratic nominee is what I'll be doing. How about you?

[SheilaT]

122. I could not in good conscience campaign for Hillary.

I won't support or vote for someone who supports the death penalty, who votes for wars, who wants to invade country after country, who lies over and over again even when she's called out on those lies.

I am so fucking sick and tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. It's time to put an end to that.

I will rethink a lot of Hillary, god forbid, does get the nomination. Meanwhile, I'm campaigning and donating money to Bernie Sanders.

[MineralMan]

124. I campaign for Democrats.

I have always done that. I will knock on every door in my precinct this year, if health allows it. When I do, I will promote the Democratic candidates on the ballot. Hillary Clinton, if she is the presidential candidate on the ballot will also receive my support. So would Bernie Sanders. I'm all about outcomes, not individual candidates.

I don't think that's all that difficult to understand. Perhaps I'm wrong in that thinking.

You will do as you choose. So will I.

[CrowCityDem]

103. Double Standard

I've seen many times the question being asked: what is Hillary going to do to win over Bernie voters?

Fair enough. But none of those people even answer the other side of that. What is Bernie going to do to win over Hillary voters?

The question probably sounds different when the names are reversed, eh?

[floriduck]

57. Thanks for bringing this topic up, MM

I like many others have no answer for you at this time. And some won't have answers for you the day before, the day of and the day after the election. Some are questioning if they're even in the party that supports their interest.

In case you've missed anything, there has been a lot of animosity on this site and in other media sources. How do you undo the choreographed opposition presented by your candidate, the DNC, the bought-in super delegates, the corporate media and slimers like David Brock? Most people have memories and don't just flip a switch and go the other direction. So Sanders supporters like me have a lot to consider. Asking us to rally now with Wisconsin, New York, Florida and California ahead is not only premature, it is rubbing it in our faces, even though your concern is genuine.

[Sivart]

59. Realistically, why.....

Why is it apparently ok for Hillary supporters to post negatively about Sanders, but the Sanders supporters are not supposed to post anything negative about Hillary?

It is clearly and obviously happening from both directions, but we have posts here pretending otherwise.

The other thing that is fucked up about this is that you have it backwards. What is Hillary going to do?

I have been a Democrat for a long, long time, and a member of this site for a long time. These things have never required me to blindly vote D no matter what.

But that is what people here act like day after day. You MUST vote D no matter what. This has simply never been the case. Some people choose to vote straight ticket, but many do not, and this has never never never never been a problem.

I know, I know, its different this year. We could have Trump. We could have Cruz. It could be all my fault.

WRONG. I'm a politically active registered Democrat. Hillary should be able to earn my vote. But she hasn't. This is 100 percent on her. I will never vote republican, but there is no way I could vote for her the way things are.

She is in a real spot. She is on film flip flopping about everything under the sun. I just don't think it is realistic for you or any Democrat to expect millions of people with brains and memories to over look this fact. She really has flip flopped on just about everything.

[merrily]

101. Shhhh. We're not supposed to notice the double standards, one-sidedness or hypocrisy.

For the love of heaven, stop making excellent points!

[LostOne4Ever]

60. I plan to ruthlessly attack the Repugs

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]Then vote for Clinton with a close pin over my nose come November.

That is it[/font]

[DrFunkenstein]

61. How Quickly Do You Think She Would Lurch to the Right?

And as a New Yorker, I have no desire to see her exploit 9/11 for whatever uncomfortable position she chooses to triangulate.

[Autumn]

62. At least Bernie supporters here are keeping it on DU

instead of places like free republic, jackassradicals, hidden rooms in Clinton supporter sites, posting antisemitic stuff about Bernie in other places and so much more . People from here posting in places like that and saying some of the nastiest things about Bernie and actual DUers . I can't see how they can walk that back and expect any unity at all.

[MineralMan]

80. Well, you won't find me on any of those places.

I speak only for myself, not for others. I have always done that. I'm not a group person.

[berni_mccoy]

63. I have ZERO faith that Hillary will be able to unite the party.

She might be able to, but I've been around a long time. I don't see her driving massive turnout among liberals. I do see her driving massive turnout on the other side though, which is her biggest problem.

It's less about party unity and more about her being a driver for the other side.

[merrily]

66. P.S.

No one has a crystal ball, but I did try an analysis.


OP: Will supporters of Bernie vote for Hillary as PUMAs voted for Obama? http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280155607

[MineralMan]

81. I don't know anything about PUMAs.

I was an Obama supporter in 2008. So, you'd have to ask someone else, I guess.

[merrily]

85. Ask someone else what? I didn't ask you anything. I don't think I've ever asked you anything.

I simply linked you to an OP of mine in which I had attempted an analysis. I thought that analysis relevant to your question about what Bernie supporter's will do.

I was for Obama in 2008 as well, but that doesn't disable me from deciding what Democratic voters might do in 2016.

Quite an odd reply all around, MM.

[SFnomad]

118. PUMAs were bitter losers, no different than the #BernieOrBust crowd

In the end, the PUMAs weren't a factor and President Obama became President.

Let's hope the #BOB crowd comes to their senses as well.

[Politicalboi]

67. I will support Jill Stein

Hillary is NOT progressive. I hate the Clinton's so I will still fight against her. Not here of course, but other sites that support Jill. This place will be a lost cause. People making excuses for of Hillary's dirty laundry, her lies, her scandals. You can support that shit, I certainly WON'T.

[aikoaiko]

70. HRC can campaign on Least Worst Choice

That will bring in a few more votes.

[VulgarPoet]

74. If she wants my vote, she has a VERY large mountain to climb.

Because otherwise, I'm supporting Dr. Stein. Her and her kind have been nothing but condescending, disgusting, and completely ignorant of what their policies are doing to our earth. I'm not supporting anyone who would support actively ravaging the planet further over antiquated resources.

[Mike Nelson]

89. I think it goes far beyond politics...

...some Bernie supporters think she's Republican, evil or worse - they won't vote for Hillary. Sanders has failed to keep his supporters in the fold, and perhaps never intended to deliver them to the likely nominee. A portion will go to Stein, and hope she runs with Sanders.

[longship]

93. Love ya, MM!

I support Bernie Sanders. We may disagree on our choice of candidates, but I always respect your reasoned and sage advice.

However, no doubt you have recognized what can only be characterized as division in our party between in the Bernie and Hillary camps. Neither have played fair. Meanwhile the candidates attempt to stay above the fray in spite of their followers.

I prefer Bernie Sanders because of his position on so many issues. However, I will support the Democratic nominee, no matter who it is. The alternative is too horrible to consider.

Here's the deal. I find the DU candidate groups to be a horrible way to accomplish that goal. Instead of uniting us, they divide us. I would vote for their elimination. I see nothing of value coming out of them. ZERO VALUE!

My best to you.

[MineralMan]

97. I almost never visit the candidate groups on DU.

I prefer the open forum discussions, frankly.

And the best to you, too!

[Turin_C3PO]

206. I agree with you about the Group thing (nt)

[MynameisBlarney]

95. Speaking only for myself

This Bernie supporter will vote for Hillary.
As I've said in other forums, she's far better than anyone on the GOTP docket.

[Optimism]

105. I cannot compromise my principles

and vote for another Clinton. I am not pro-Kissinger, pro-fracking, pro-XL, pro-militarism, pro-Wall Street, pro-Wal-Mart, pro-nuclear, etc etc. So it's pretty simple actually.

I will vote for every progressive on the ballot. I will not vote for any of my Superdelegates who have decided to ignore my State's overwhelming support for SANDERS. If Bernie is not the nominee I will also vote for Dr. Stein. The additional support for the Green party will just be an added bonus!

[MineralMan]

110. That's interesting, I guess.

I also have principles, and they are far closer to pure socialism than anything else. I will never see a system with which I agree in this diverse and angry nation. My vote is about outcomes and only about outcomes. I work toward the better outcome in each election. It's simple.

I could never vote for Jill Stein. She cannot win. I will not waste my vote. I will vote for the better outcome in every general election. To do otherwise would be unethical for me. You will do as you choose. So will I.

Jill Stein will get less than 1% of the vote, nationally. I see no point in such a thing. I will vote for the Democrat, as I always do. The outcome will be better if the Democrat wins. You will do as you choose. I'll be out canvassing for the Democrats on the ballot in my precinct in Minnesota, as I have in every precinct where I have lived. You will do as you choose, and I will do as I choose.

Frankly, I hope Democrats win. The alternative is guaranteed to produce a worse outcome. You will do as you choose.

[rock]

114. Very finely put

Something I noticed early on and even directly addressed some BSers in their posts, as in, "So you're not going to vote for Hillary if she's the candidate, or are you a hypocrite?" It's way to late to address this attitude. I should add that I never made any ugly claims about Bernie (though I may have disagreed with issues).

[MineralMan]

116. I appreciate that. It seem to be a rare opinion.

[leftynyc]

115. Right now

I'll settle for anyone not supporting the eventual candidate getting banned from posting here. It's something I very much look forward to.

[MineralMan]

119. I suppose a lot of people feel that way.

I'm neutral on that. This is not my website. I will defer to the owners of this website to make that decision.

I will say this, however: I'm tolerating a lot here right now. If, as time goes by, I'm not able to tolerate it any longer, I will find some other place to discuss politics. I won't presume to suggest what the owners of this website should do, though. I'm free to start one of my own, if I wish. I do not wish to do that. It's too damn much work and too little reward, frankly.

I do appreciate their willingness to keep this site active. I'd have shut it down months ago. I'd have just deleted it from the hosting service and let people look at an error message. They are far more tolerant than I would be.

[leftynyc]

222. It was very much like this

in 2008 so it's not like they're dealing with something entirely new. I'm glad they made that decision about having to support the eventual candidate - right now, it's like swimming in a sewer.

[Turin_C3PO]

207. I would support

a "timeout" until election day is over, then reinstatement (unless they're supporting a Republican of course!)

[MineralMan]

120. Oh, I see.

"That something is called integrity. Hillary has shown she has none. "

In saying that Hillary has no integrity, you reveal yourself as a detractor. So, I believe I will disregard your protestations of innocence.

You will do as you please. So will I. Today, it pleased me to write this post. Apparently, it pleased you to post the line I quoted.

[MineralMan]

130. I'm sorry. I guess I'm not understanding.

I finished my day's work about noon. I finished up a home page for a security gate and access control company to present to them. If we get the contract for their website, I'll have plenty of work coming up. I'm hoping our proposal is successful.

But yes, I do enjoy engaging with people. That's my avocation. I make my living writing stuff for businesses so they can succeed and hire more people.

What do you do for a living, may I ask?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

121. We've been heaping calimari on Hillary's head?

I'm a Sanders supporter and feel that Clinton would be interested in helping only the rich and connected.

That said, I'd hold my nose and vote for her, lesser of evils and all that.

Ethics has nothing to do with a Clinton vs Trump/Cruz/Ryan general election.

[MineralMan]

133. Oh gosh. I believe I typed "calumny," not calimari.

You could look that word up, if you had a mind to. But, whatever suits you. If you need a link to a definition, just let me know and I'll reply with one.

[Fumesucker]

219. Are you casting asparagus on that poster?

[Bjornsdotter]

123. I won't have to walk back any statements

....so I'm clear there.

I will vote for the candidate who closest represents my personal belief. Lots of time between now and November.

[MineralMan]

127. I don't think that highly of myself or my beliefs, really.

I tend to think more about the society as it is and vote to its benefit, generally.

[Bjornsdotter]

139. My beliefs are which would

...help society more.

Edit to add: Do people actually vote against their beliefs? I'm not talking about elected officials who at times need to put their personal opinions to the side. I mean the average voter.....I don't think I've ever come across someone who has voted the complete opposite of what they believe. Food for thought.

[mhatrw]

125. It's not too late to support the far superior General Election candidate! nt

[Jarqui]

126. I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm not going to worry about it

until I have to.

You never know. It may be hillary supporters that have to confront that dilemma.

[MineralMan]

129. It will not be a dilemma for me at all.

My primary is over. I'm waiting to see who the nominee will be.

I'm a Democrat. I vote for Democrats.

[Jarqui]

132. I will NOT support Republicans - I don't have to think about that

I'm way too progressive.

A lot could change. Trump may well get cut down and Kasich or someone else gets parachuted in. (again, that won't matter to me as long as they lose the general).

If Hillary gets indicted, then maybe Biden or Warren gets drafted.

I'm not going to worry about something I cannot control.

In the interim, I'll do the best I can for Bernie.

[bigwillq]

135. Vote DEM in every downticket race

I live in CT. DEM nominee will win my state, with or without my vote. If Mrs. Clinton is DEM nominee, I hope she wins the presidency, but I will not be voting for her. It's a win-win.

[MineralMan]

136. You will do as you please, I'm sure.

I will vote for every Democrat on my ballot. I recommend that others do the same.

[floriduck]

138. Can you reply to msg 57?

You've responded to many but not mine. Why?

[MineralMan]

155. I could not find anything in it to reply to.

You stated your opinion. You're welcome to hold any opinion you hold, as far as I am concerned. Everyone is. I posed a question in my post. Few have answered it. Too bad, I think. I read your reply, but didn't feel the need to answer. Sorry.

[Vattel]

144. I think the bigger obstacle to supporting her is how much she, her campaign, and her supporters

have lied about Sanders and distorted his record and smeared him. That does make it hard to turn around and support her if she wins. If she had run an honest and fair campaign, one could stomach her bad record and support her as the lesser of the evils.

[SisterSarah]

145. DENIAL

A highly effective survival strategy that inhibits the EVOLUTION REVOLUTION.

[nolabels]

146. Supporting corporate shills is not an option

All this this nice talk about what will be the last installed corporate piece of crap is just a lot of nonsense.

The question will be for those who supported her in their thinking they were going to half a loaf from the deal, is that now they will be getting none no matter what happens, so was it really worth it?

[grntuscarora]

147. Write in vote.

Never done one, but there's a first time for everything, and I'm there.

[Jitter65]

148. I am with you Mineral Man. Sorry you have to have so many nasty replies hurled at you.

This primary has been sickening to me.

[mvd]

149. Not thinking about that yet. Hoping for strong performances ahead

Yes he is the underdog. And I would vote for Hillary in the GE despite strong reservations about her doing much for progressives. I know she must win over Trump or whoever the Repukes go with. But I support Bernie's message so much that it's not over until it it's over. His message about inequality affects so many other things. In fact focusing on that helps drive me to Bernie. I am fed up with high prescription drug prices, the bankers not paying for their crimes, corporate influence in elections, the rich benefitting disproportionally, perpetual war and many other things. So still hoping Bernie pulls it out.

[beaglelover]

150. They'll go to their 'safe space' and pout and then on election day when no one is looking they will

vote for Hillary.

[Katashi_itto]

159. You keep believing that.

[beaglelover]

161. I will.

[Califonz]

153. Dream ticket

Clinton/Sanders. I could vote for that.

[Karma13612]

190. yea, sure. NOT (-100) eom

[AgerolanAmerican]

154. Bernie or Bust

You should have no illusions that the terms of this engagement are anything other than that.

I will not support Wall Street predation.

I will not support another four to ten wars that are guaranteed to occur on her watch.

I will not support her selling out my friends, family, and community so that she can add another two zeroes to her obscene and ill-gotten net worth by leveraging the power of the office for private gain.

She is a CROOK. If she is our nominee it will destroy the party. We have NEVER had such a scoundrel so close to our party's nomination.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

156. About 10% of Democrats don't vote for the Democratic nominee even when Sarah Palin is on the R's

ticket. What will happen in November? About 10% of Democrats won't vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination.


EDIT: Found the link
http://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/how-groups-voted-2008/

[DinahMoeHum]

157. I, for one, will vote for the Democratic nominee this November. . .

. . .whether it's Bernie or Hillary. (and I'm a Sanders supporter)

Either one is a million times better than anyone the GOP has.

"Political purity" is bullshit, folks. The only thing that counts is WINNING.

[tularetom]

163. Realistically, I don't think they have to tell you

This is the sneakiest most roundabout way of insinuating a loyalty pledge into a DU post I've seen yet.

[MineralMan]

165. I didn't suggest that they had to.

It was a question. Some people replied. Some didn't. You didn't. We're there any consequences for that? No? I didn't think so. I have zero power over anyone, which is why I just ask questions.

[muntrv]

164. If Hillary is the nominee, I will support her.

[MineralMan]

167. Thanks for your reply.

Truly. Few actually replied to my question. I appreciate that you did.

[baldguy]

169. .

Some would rather see progressivism, the Democratic Party, and progressives IN the Democratic Party die.

Maybe that's been their objective all along.

[MineralMan]

171. Perhaps so.

I hope not, though.

[FreedomRain]

172. They will each do as they think best

(All assuming she wins of course.)


..and Hillary only has the opportunity to shift the percentages in one camp or another somewhat.

A lot depends on if she wins by pledged delegates alone. By how much cheating (or perceived cheating). On who she picks for VP/cabinet. On Bernie's own recommendations to his supporters. On the chance of indictment. On the Party Platform. On the R nomination. etc etc

Many Bernie people are first time voters, and/or independents. Most of these will not bother voting for Hillary no matter what, some might be enticed based on the above factors.

Some of us will vote for her, even if they have said or believe the worst of her, because the other choice is unthinkable. Some say enough is enough, if we have to lose now to win in the end so be it. The "ethical" problem can be approached from several sides.

Her campaign needs to focus on keeping as many of these votes as she can, and she is doing a terrible job of it.

Of those who do not vote Democratic, very few will go to R or write in, mostly they will vote Green or stay home.

Personally, and probably for my family and friends (all Bernie people), we are still likely to vote for whomever wins, but the factors above are still in play. If it gets bad enough, Green is the most likely choice.

[Android3.14]

173. A majority of the people won't support her and that has always been the problem

Same problem in '08.

Her negatives make her unelectable. I seriously don't know if she is a good person. Those speaking fees, her changing positions, her financial backers, but most especially the lack of remorse for the hundreds of thousands of people who died because of her contribution to the IWR reveal a character that if a moral and ethical person met that person on the street, we would cross to avoid her. The way people perceive her is such a turn off to so many, whetrher they are Bernie supporters or otherwise.

I think your opinion has some validity, but there are many who cannot ethically or morally support Clinton for good reasons but who could do so for Bernie or O'Malley or Warren or many others.

My opinion is that a vote for Hillary in the primaries is a vote for Trump in the general election.

[RandySF]

176. Over 80% will vote for Hillary

[MineralMan]

178. I think so, too.

[noretreatnosurrender]

202. If you believe that

why do Hillary supporters keep having these same type of threads over and over and over again? Why bother? I think we all know the answer to that.

[RandySF]

204. DU does not represent Sanders voters at large

[Android3.14]

230. Nor does it represent Hillary voters

The hubris is offensive.

[Zambero]

177. Unrealistically, they will...

Vote for Trump or Cruz

[PowerToThePeople]

180. I think you know what we will do.

Too bad it doesn't help the corporate candidate, huh?

[MineralMan]

187. Actually, I don't.

That's why I asked. You didn't answer, so I don't know what you'll do either. You could tell me, though, and then I'd know.

[Bjorn Against]

183. I will continue to think she would make a horrible President

I will stand by my past statements about her, I see absolutely no reason why I should smile and pretend to think she would make a good President just because she won the nomination. The party does not determine my opinion, I have never thought that Hillary would be a good President and I don't expect to change my mind on that. If the party wants me to praise their candidate then they should nominate a candidate worthy of praise.

[LonePirate]

185. They will protest for a few weeks or months and then come home to the Dems by October.

[Karma13612]

186. As some posters have already said, lets not jump the gun.

We still have some time.

And, I am really not going to promise or consider anything until FBI Dir Comey and USAG Loretta Lynch have announced their conclusions from the ongoing investigation.

Whether or not you think there is any there, there, I am waiting for them.

This is, of course, if Bernie does not get the nomination.

Right now, my karma is all in for Bernie (the Birdie) Sanders.

Go New York!

[Loudestlib]

192. Whatever I want?

[MineralMan]

194. Of course.

As will we all.

[EdwardBernays]

193. Realistically?

Many won't vote for her or any Clinton ever.

A lot of them would also strongly agree with some of your characterizations of her and the facts.

I won't vote for her. I'm not going to vote for someone I think is dishonest and corrupt, out of fear. And unlike you I don't trust a word that comes out of her mouth.

[MineralMan]

195. OK. Thanks for answering.

I hope you'll reconsider.

[EdwardBernays]

218. I won't

Last edited Tue Apr 5, 2016, 04:01 AM - Edit history (1)

But thanks for your civility.


Today Dailykos sent out a bulk email saying the best thing we can do to stop Donald Trump is log in and write a short diary about why we're scared of him. Pail Begala said the Clintons GE slogan would be "fear fear fear".... Even if I didn't think Hillary was dishonest I'd never vote for that... Fear...

[Haveadream]

199. You know what I think will happen, MM?

I think when the primary is over and the heat of the moment passes, we will all be swept up in the drama of the general election. Ardent supporters of Bernie are not going to suddenly not care about our country. I suspect that, even though it is not likely to be possible for Bernie to be their candidate this time, he has instilled in them a passion for participating in the political process. I see them as earnest and engaged. Bernie is not the last candidate we will have and many more will be coming in the months and years ahead.

With that in mind, I see the months leading up to November as giving everyone a taste of what a Trump or Republican Presidency would mean. I see Sanders supporters fighting for what is right and doing their best to prevent disaster from falling on all of us, including the most vulnerable and targets of hate. No matter how much squabbling and in fighting, when faced with a horrible common enemy, people forget those quarrels and band together. I don't think anyone has to retract anything they said to do the right thing. I think we just keep moving forward to, as you said, the very best outcome.

[dchill]

201. "heaping calumny" is a two-way street, evidently.

Calumny is well-heaped from your side every day. Here, there and everywhere.

[Agnosticsherbet]

203. What happens in the ballot box is secret.

I think that faced with a Republican, many of them will vote in their best interest. Nobody needs to know.

[Turin_C3PO]

205. I think

ultimately, 80% of Sanders voters (especially registered Democrats) will vote for Hillary Clinton. We're still in the heat of a primary and feelings are hurt (on both sides). Remember how many Clinton voters were denouncing Obama in 2008? By the summer though,most had made the decision to hold their nose and vote for Obama.

I'm a Bernie Sanders supporter who has many issues with Hillary Clinton. That said, my disagreement I have with her are nothing compared to the threat of a strongman/neo-fascist or theocrat being elected President.

[frustrated_lefty]

209. I'm voting my conscience.

Like it, don't like it, sorry. I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. At some point, that level of pragmatism becomes unadulterated acquiescence to a system of government that is damaging to the people. The DNC no longer represents my values, ambitions, or ideals. I'd really like to see a Sander's presidency restore some of the integrity and values so long associated with the office of the president.

[Jamaal510]

210. IDK what they'll do, but

if BS runs the table and becomes our nominee instead, I will support him without hesitation. I'll readily vote for him despite all of my differences with his campaign, many of his supporters, and his approach. Realistically, he'd be the only thing that stands in the path of the GOP controlling the WH, and voting 3rd party would be pointless.

[Bonobo]

211. You have every right to muse openly, MM, and I have every right to say: None of your business. nt

[Betty Karlson]

220. You are exactly right: it would be an ethical problem for many of us.

That is why we are so miffed whenever someone pretends that the nomination is all sown up. It is not, and we'd like to prevent that disaster from happening with all our might. For the good of the whole party.

[Warren DeMontague]

224. Why are you so concerned with how people are going to "walk back negative statements” about Hillary?

I mean the logic we keep hearing, essentially, is some variation of the spectrum between "dont let the perfect be the enemy of the good" all the way to "the lesser of two evils".

So everyone acknowledges that - if HRC gets the nomination- a lot of people are going to have to do some iteration of the above, or hold their nose and vote, or what have you. In fact, we're told on a daily basis here how that is the sane, strategic,"grown-up" thing to do.

Expecting folks to get all a-squee over her, or fall all over themselves with self-flaggelation, apologizing for past criticism is probably unrealistic.

My advice to you is just be thankful if they turn out and vote for her.

Thats probably all the satisfaction you're gonna get.

[Katashi_itto]

225. Christ, its not rocket science. Why support a corrupt canidate?

It's simply easier to stay home.

[DetroitSocialist83]

226. I think right now

I am too angry with Hillary and her supporters to answer the question. I'd need a little bit of time after 6/7 to think things over. I've already put nearly all of them on ignore on this site because things between the two sides have devolved into the sewer.

[hereforthevoting]

228. Have to agree with this one

Maybe I think like Susan Sarandon, "I'll have to wait and see."

[dubyadiprecession]

227. Many bernie supporters will end up blaming bernie for not living up to..

their rhetoric. He is not godlike, he is really a bad candidate.

[hereforthevoting]

229. I can acknowledge the pos and negs of each

At this point in the race.... it would take an awful lot to turn his negs into her pos.

[Jim Lane]

231. In 2008, the "3:00 am phone call" crowd mostly ended up voting for Obama.

I don't think they had to walk anything back, or admit "that their negative statements, images, and attacks were unwarranted." So, naturally, I think the same is true of Sanders supporters this year. Sanders himself has not hit Clinton with any negative stuff that's as nasty as that anti-Obama ad of hers was, or that lends itself so readily to being used by the Republicans in November. (McCain actually did attack Obama in the same terms, even referencing Clinton's ad. This year, the Republican nominee won't be able to do anything similar with Sanders's material. No Republican can credibly attack Clinton for being too close to Wall Street.)

To answer your question, let me give you my subjective ratings of candidates on a scale of 1 to 10:
Sanders: 9 (a great guy but I don't think he's perfect)
Clinton: 6
The best Republican on their best days and graded charitably: 4 (maybe Jon Huntsman? certainly nobody scoring this high has any hope in today's GOP, as Huntsman discovered)
Average Republican: 2 (maybe Jeb! or his ilk, leaving the bottom rung for Trump and Cruz)

Here's why I don't see "a real problem for people," at least for most people. It's easy to see that 6 is lower than 9 but higher than 2. If you spend the primary season pointing out that 6 is lower than 9, there's no inconsistency, let alone an ethical problem, in voting in November as if 6 is nevertheless higher than 2, because it is. That's how I expect to vote if Clinton is the nominee.

In your #27, you refer to "a question I'd have to answer for myself, had I attacked Bernie Sanders unjustly." I've "attacked" Clinton (in the sense of criticizing her record, expressing disagreement with her policy positions, and calling her out for lying) but I haven't attacked her unjustly. I simply keep those attacks in perspective. I can grudgingly vote for her while standing by all the calumny I've heaped on her.

And, to answer the other question that's arisen in this thread, I don't like calamari.

[Buddyblazon]

232. Sorry, Hillary supporters...I don't vote for Republicans...

So I'll write my vote in for a liberal.

[Scuba]

235. I'll put most of my energies into Russ Feingold's campaign and some into other progressive Dems.

On election day I'll hold my nose really, really tight and vote for the Democratic Party candidate (I live in a purple state).

But I'll not send Hillary a dime, nor phonebank for her, nor put a yard sign in my yard.

[LWolf]

236. Realistically, I expect that,

should worse come to worst and Clinton win the nomination, Sanders supporters will carefully consider their options AFTER the convention and each individual will come to their own conclusions about how to vote in November.

What seems to be missing from your OP are a few key points:

1. Clinton supporters tend to fall into a few categories: partisan Democrats who would vote for a dead donkey carcass if it had a "D" next to its name; liberals who like Sanders policies and supported Clinton because they're afraid to buck the establishment; people who are simply so afraid of, or feel so much hate for, Republicans that they would, again, vote for a dead donkey carcass if it had a "D" next to its name; neoliberals who actually like and support the neoliberal takeover of the Democratic Party and Clinton as the neoliberal figurehead; women and others who will cast a symbolic vote for a woman president; and people who actually think Clinton would actually do something for liberal causes rather than working for her corporate masters.

Most of those people would vote for anyone other than a Republican in November, with the exception, maybe, of some of those neoliberals who are more Republican than not outside of their voter registration. The attacks on Sanders from the Clinton camp have been mostly ludicrous; there's no credibility for almost any of them, and a great deal of time has been spent attacking his supporters rather than Sanders himself. We get that; there's very little to say when it comes to issues and record, since Sanders beats her handily in both. That focus on Sanders' supporters is going to backfire in November, though, since the attacks have been vicious enough, and false enough, to engender some strong backlash. The attacks on Sanders himself, though, won't stick, because, as previously pointed out, they are beyond ludicrous.

Are Clinton supporters, when she loses, going to admit "that their negative statements, images, and attacks were unwarranted"?

2. Sanders supporters are not monolithic, either. Some of them will vote for the D nominee in November for most of the same reasons listed above. Those that Sanders has brought in from outside the party won't. This is why we've been saying, repeatedly, that Sanders has a better chance in November. He'll get most or all of the D vote, PLUS crossover votes that HRC will not. Some of the left wing of the Democratic Party, sick of being taken for granted and thrown under the bus, will not vote for Clinton. They don't have to worry about being ethically unable to support Clinton; they won't be supporting Clinton, and wouldn't have anyway. She never had their support, and can't earn it.

Many of those attacks on Clinton ARE warranted. Why would anyone, if Sanders loses, pretend that they are not? That would be unethical.

This primary has been, is, about more than Sanders and Clinton. It's about the identity of the party, and whether or not the party will be wrested back from the neoliberals, or whether the neoliberals will complete their takeover. A line has been drawn in the sand. The neoliberal establishment can no longer rely on party loyalty to bring the left to heel in November, because they've worked to hard to disenfranchise and purge the left. Either the neoliberals are defeated, or much of the left is going to look elsewhere. And, if that doesn't work out well for the neoliberal establishment, they'll have only themselves to blame, regardless of how aggressively they play the blame game to deny and deflect.