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kentuck

(111,110 posts)
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 07:03 AM Apr 2016

Hillary Clinton has been too easy on Bernie Sanders.

This could hurt Bernie a lot if he happens to be the nominee. I say this as a Bernie supporter.

Does anyone really think the Republicans will not try to portray Bernie as a "socialist", a "communist", an "anti-capitalist", an "anti-American", "Russia-loving" Trotskyite?

It would be to Bernie's benefit and to the Democratic Party's benefit if Bernie had to respond to such charges now, rather than later, in my opinion.

This name-calling is sure to come if Bernie is the nominee and, not one time, has Hillary forced Bernie to respond. This needs to be dealt with now, not after the nomination.

Perhaps Hillary is so sure of the nomination that she sees no need to address the matter at all? Bernie's stump speech is insufficient in addressing these charges that are sure to come if he is the nominee.

I would disagree with those that say Bernie has addressed these "issues" and that the voters look at "socialism" differently now than in the past.

43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hillary Clinton has been too easy on Bernie Sanders. (Original Post) kentuck Apr 2016 OP
Senators McCaskill and Shaheen already tried the red-baiting jfern Apr 2016 #1
her biggest mistake has been the attacks on Bernie. roguevalley Apr 2016 #43
We aren't republicans, we shouldnt use their attacks against our own. Agschmid Apr 2016 #2
Sanders is already doing a pretty good job this against Hillary. nt Jitter65 Apr 2016 #10
IMO Agschmid's right, tho. The GOP benefits when Hortensis Apr 2016 #32
I welcome their hatred and message JackInGreen Apr 2016 #3
She has treated him as if she wants his endorsement BeyondGeography Apr 2016 #4
The media is helping the Republicans play their coy game. kentuck Apr 2016 #5
That too BeyondGeography Apr 2016 #6
I'm a voter and my response is to yawn. Also giggle. IdaBriggs Apr 2016 #7
Is this a ploy to lure Clinton into a losing strategy? JackRiddler Apr 2016 #8
Hillary doesn't need to be lured into a losing strategy BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #33
If you do a search... kentuck Apr 2016 #37
The GOP still claims Third Way Democrat Obama is a socialist BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #41
Hillary really has nothing to gain firebrand80 Apr 2016 #9
Didn't they use that against Obama? Perogie Apr 2016 #11
The DNC has been reading too much of their own propaganda inchhigh Apr 2016 #12
Anybody who ran as a socialist can more than handle any critics. Hillary knows this B Calm Apr 2016 #13
The Democratic party is not fractured enough, Hillary needs to pound it into dust Fumesucker Apr 2016 #14
Sander supporters could not stomach the GOP attacks against Sanders Gothmog Apr 2016 #24
You are responding to a point I didn't make Fumesucker Apr 2016 #30
It's not that people are suddenly socialism fans ibegurpard Apr 2016 #15
Bernie has been WAY to easy on Clinton. n/t Skwmom Apr 2016 #16
Quite the opposite, I'm afraid. Vinca Apr 2016 #17
Hillary needs a sparing partner and contest for publicity and to GOTV Sancho Apr 2016 #18
LOL, Hillary would be thrilled if she were running unopposed. B Calm Apr 2016 #19
That is hilarious. DWS brilliance! morningfog Apr 2016 #20
You must not remember they start of the primaries... GeorgiaPeanuts Apr 2016 #21
The Clinton campaign and others have been treating Sanders with kids gloves compared to the GOP Gothmog Apr 2016 #23
Democrats would be insane to nominate Bernie Sanders Gothmog Apr 2016 #22
Hillary is winning, and has been for a while now. No need to "punch down" at Sanders. nt CalvinballPro Apr 2016 #25
truth jcgoldie Apr 2016 #27
Clinton has decided it's not worth it to risk civil war in the party. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #26
Welcome to the REAL HRC... HumanityExperiment Apr 2016 #28
They will portray any Democrat as a "socialist", a "communist", an "anti-capitalist." Scuba Apr 2016 #29
They tried it on Obama. How'd that work out for them? BillZBubb Apr 2016 #31
How would going negative in any way help Hillary awake Apr 2016 #34
The tactics that might help Trump would hurt Clinton. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2016 #35
Finally found it, this is what Bernie will do... Fumesucker Apr 2016 #36
OF COURSE Republicans will try to tear him apart and call him names. Avalux Apr 2016 #38
The bastards called FDR worse names Califonz Apr 2016 #39
Maybe Mrs. Clinton can solicit some more civil rights icons to lie on her behalf. frylock Apr 2016 #40
If you worry about Hillary going too easy on Bernie BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #42

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
32. IMO Agschmid's right, tho. The GOP benefits when
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 09:50 AM
Apr 2016

we tear ourselves down. People looking at Hillary and Sanders are looking at what the DEMOCRATIC PARTY offers, and whatever happens affects perceptions of not just both of them, but all our candidates.

Hillary's already started the GE against the GOP, and they have to be extremely aware of her need to hold the line as much as possible. At the same time, she also has to be careful not to appear to be dismissing Sanders by not paying enough attention to him since that could backfire too.

JackInGreen

(2,975 posts)
3. I welcome their hatred and message
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 07:04 AM
Apr 2016

And look forward to hearty discussion while they do mandrel impressions.

BeyondGeography

(39,382 posts)
4. She has treated him as if she wants his endorsement
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 07:14 AM
Apr 2016

She does. Plus the GE is a different forum entirely. His proposals as well as his background would come in for a full-on evisceration in the GE.

I fully agree with your main point, which is why his head-to-head #'s against the GOP are irrelevant, imo.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
7. I'm a voter and my response is to yawn. Also giggle.
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 07:21 AM
Apr 2016

So have at it. It reminds me that she is old and out of touch and maybe a bit dotty.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
33. Hillary doesn't need to be lured into a losing strategy
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 09:50 AM
Apr 2016

If this was a losing strategy she would already be using it. The MSM already went down that path on Hillary's behalf when Bernie was asked 4 different times about Castro in the Univision debate in Florida.

I kind of doubt the person who made the OP is really a Bernie supporter.

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
37. If you do a search...
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 10:15 AM
Apr 2016

you may find that I was one of the earliest supporters of Bernie on DU...

But I am a realist and I know how the GOP operates.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
41. The GOP still claims Third Way Democrat Obama is a socialist
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 10:50 AM
Apr 2016

Their dumber voters, which is most of them, believe it. They're never going to vote for anybody the Democrats nominate. The amount of support Bernie gets from independents shows many of them aren't as put off by Bernie's Democrat Socialist identity and his proposals as they are by Hillary and her war mongering, corporatism, and lying.

Public opinion polls show broad support for many of Bernie's socialist ideas, like a single payer healthcare plan, higher taxes on the rich, higher minimum wage, doing away with free trade agreements, etc.

What are you proposing that Hillary should do, scream "You're a socialist!" at him to toughen him up? She's tried to attack him from the right on healthcare and some other issues and it hasn't gone too well.

firebrand80

(2,760 posts)
9. Hillary really has nothing to gain
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 07:23 AM
Apr 2016

Attacking Sanders in that way doesn't rob him of any of his support, and it drives her negatives way up.

I don't doubt that she'd do it if she had to, but a highly pragmatic politician like Hillary isn't taking a risk like that at this point.

inchhigh

(384 posts)
12. The DNC has been reading too much of their own propaganda
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 07:37 AM
Apr 2016

He's not a communist but if she could make the socialist label stick that might get him MORE votes. Americans aren't involved too often because the entire conversation is always between the right and the far-righter. The Democratic Party is strongest when it advocates for working people and average Americans. It moved to the right, not for our benefit, but for the benefit of Hillary Clinton because she could never hope to represent a party of the people. They had to turn it into a party she could represent, a party of upper income professionals, a party of lawyers, lobbyists and hedge fund managers. The truth is Americans mostly hate those people. There are no jokes about what you call 100 farmers at the bottom of the ocean. Anybody ever ask you how many auto workers it takes to screw in a light bulb?

She is inextricably a member of three of the most reviled groups in American society. She will never represent most Americans. She will never represent me.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
13. Anybody who ran as a socialist can more than handle any critics. Hillary knows this
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 07:44 AM
Apr 2016

and knows better.

Gothmog

(145,616 posts)
24. Sander supporters could not stomach the GOP attacks against Sanders
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 09:28 AM
Apr 2016

According to this article, Sanders has been treated with kid gloves by the Clinton campaign to date. However the GOP will not be as kind to Sanders. This article from VOX has some good predictions as to how nasty the GOP and the Kochs will be http://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10903404/gop-campaign-against-sanders

I'm not sure I have the requisite killer instinct to fully imagine how the GOP will play a Sanders campaign. But consider just this low-hanging fruit:

Sanders would be the oldest president ever to take office — older than John McCain, who faced serious questions about this in 2008.

Sanders is a socialist. "No, no," you explain, "it's democratic socialist, like in Denmark." I'm sure GOP attack ads will take that distinction into careful consideration.

Sanders explicitly wants to raise taxes, and not only on the rich.

That's just the obvious stuff. And he has barely been hit on any of it so far.

I have no real way of knowing whether Sanders and his advisers appreciate what's coming if he wins the nomination, or whether they have a serious plan to deal with it, something beyond hoping a political revolution will drown it out.

But at least based on my experience, the Bernie legions are not prepared. They seem convinced that the white working class would rally to the flag of democratic socialism. And they are in a state of perpetual umbrage that Sanders isn't receiving the respect he's due, that he's facing even mild attacks from Clinton's camp.

If they are aware that it's been patty-cakes so far, that much, much worse and more vicious attacks are inevitable, and that no one knows how Sanders might perform with a giant political machine working to define him as an unhinged leftist, they hide it well.

In the name of diverting some small percentage of the social media bile surely headed my way, let's be clear about a few things: This is not an argument against supporting Sanders. There's nothing dumber than making political decisions based on how the other side might react. (For one thing, that would have foreclosed supporting Obama, a black urbanite with a funny name, in 2008.)

But it is an argument that Sanders has gaping vulnerabilities that have not yet been exploited at all, so his followers should not yet feel sanguine about his ability to endure conservative attacks. Also they should get a thicker skin, quick.

The GOP will have a great deal of material to work with and the Kochs will be spending $887 million, the RNC candidate may spend another billion dollars and Bloomberg (who will only run if Sanders is the nominee) will spend another billion dollars. These groups will have a great deal to work with

The concept that the Sanders supporters think that the attacks by the Clinton campaign are scorched earth tactics is really amusing

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
30. You are responding to a point I didn't make
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 09:44 AM
Apr 2016

The point I made is that the Democratic party needs more divisiveness based around race, class, sexual orientation or whatever else can be found to divide it into tiny little sub constituencies that can be played off against each other.

Divide and conquer, it's a remarkably ancient and well developed strategy. How the hell do you think one small island ruled half the world at one point?

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
15. It's not that people are suddenly socialism fans
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 08:00 AM
Apr 2016

It's that it's been overused so much by the repukes on ANY Democrat that it's become a word that people automatically tune out.

Vinca

(50,310 posts)
17. Quite the opposite, I'm afraid.
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 08:08 AM
Apr 2016

Since it appears she will most likely be the nominee, Hillary supporters here are in for a very rude awakening. If Bernie had really gone after her, everything would be a yawn by now and no one would pay much attention to it in the general. Since he hasn't, and the GOP has been mum throughout the primary, it's going to come down on her like a nuclear blast.

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
18. Hillary needs a sparing partner and contest for publicity and to GOTV
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 08:12 AM
Apr 2016

The DWS strategy to find someone who would stir up the electorate and not be able to beat Hillary is working perfectly.

Hillary doesn't want to squash Bernie. She wants to keep the fight going, get on TV, and contrast her policies with the GOP.

Bernie fits the bill.

 

GeorgiaPeanuts

(2,353 posts)
21. You must not remember they start of the primaries...
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 08:47 AM
Apr 2016

Remember Clinton never uses the dirty slimy smears herself. She has her surrogates say them so she can have plausible deniability, I think she even threw her own daughter under the bus in the lead up to Iowa suggesting she had gone rogue when her daughter had attacked Sanders suggesting he wanted to create less healthcare.

My point is that many of her surrogates tried and failed to use the red scare, all of this surrogates have been put to pasture because the attacks failed. They were used in the lead up to NH and he didn't falter one bit, cleaving the polling average!

That you forget this shows you how effective they were

Gothmog

(145,616 posts)
23. The Clinton campaign and others have been treating Sanders with kids gloves compared to the GOP
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 09:27 AM
Apr 2016

The concept that the Clinton campaign has been very negative on Sanders is simply false when you look at what Sanders would be subject to if he was the Democratic nominee. VOX had a good article on the potential lines of attack that Sanders would be exposed to if Sanders was the nominee. http://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10903404/gop-campaign-against-sanders One of the more interesting observations in the VOX analysis is the fact that Sanders have been treated with kids gloves compared to what Sanders would face if he was the Democratic nominee. I strongly agree with the VOX's position that the so-called negative attacks against Sander have been mild. Form the article:

I have no interest in litigating any of these attacks here. Like any Democrat elected president in 2016, Sanders wouldn't be able to get much done, but he would block attempts to roll back Obama's accomplishments and have a chance to fill a few Supreme Court vacancies.

When Sanders supporters discuss these attacks, though, they do so in tones of barely contained outrage, as though it is simply disgusting what they have to put up with. Questioning the practical achievability of single-payer health care. Impugning the broad electoral appeal of socialism. Is nothing sacred?

But c'mon. This stuff is patty-cakes compared with the brutalization he would face at the hands of the right in a general election.

His supporters would need to recalibrate their umbrage-o-meters in a serious way.

The attacks that would be levied against Sanders by the Kochs, the RNC candidate and others in a general election contest would make the so-called attacks against Sanders look like patty-cakes. The GOP and Kochs are not known for being nice or honest and as the article notes there are a ton of good topics available for attack. Raising taxes is never a good campaign platform (Just ask President Mondale). The GOP would also raise the socialism and age issues if Sanders was the nominee.

Again, I agree with the VOX position that so far, Sanders has not been subject to negative attacks close to what the GOP would use against Sanders and the attacks against Sanders if he was the nominee would be brutal. I urge Sanders supporters to read the VOX article to start to get a feel for what real negative attacks would look like.

Gothmog

(145,616 posts)
22. Democrats would be insane to nominate Bernie Sanders
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 09:26 AM
Apr 2016

One reason why match up polls are worthless at this stage of the contest is that Sanders has not been vetted or subject to the expected attacks from the GOP. Dana Milbank has some good comments on general election match up polls https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-would-be-insane-to-nominate-bernie-sanders/2016/01/26/0590e624-c472-11e5-a4aa-f25866ba0dc6_story.html?hpid=hp_opinions-for-wide-side_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Sanders and his supporters boast of polls showing him, on average, matching up slightly better against Trump than Clinton does. But those matchups are misleading: Opponents have been attacking and defining Clinton for a quarter- century, but nobody has really gone to work yet on demonizing Sanders.

Watching Sanders at Monday night’s Democratic presidential forum in Des Moines, I imagined how Trump — or another Republican nominee — would disembowel the relatively unknown Vermonter.


The first questioner from the audience asked Sanders to explain why he embraces the “socialist” label and requested that Sanders define it “so that it doesn’t concern the rest of us citizens.”

Sanders, explaining that much of what he proposes is happening in Scandinavia and Germany (a concept that itself alarms Americans who don’t want to be like socialized Europe), answered vaguely: “Creating a government that works for all of us, not just a handful of people on the top — that’s my definition of democratic socialism.”

But that’s not how Republicans will define socialism — and they’ll have the dictionary on their side. They’ll portray Sanders as one who wants the government to own and control major industries and the means of production and distribution of goods. They’ll say he wants to take away private property. That wouldn’t be fair, but it would be easy. Socialists don’t win national elections in the United States .

Sanders on Monday night also admitted he would seek massive tax increases — “one of the biggest tax hikes in history,” as moderator Chris Cuomo put it — to expand Medicare to all. Sanders, this time making a comparison with Britain and France, allowed that “hypothetically, you’re going to pay $5,000 more in taxes,” and declared, “W e will raise taxes, yes we will.” He said this would be offset by lower health-insurance premiums and protested that “it’s demagogic to say, oh, you’re paying more in taxes.

Well, yes — and Trump is a demagogue.

Sanders also made clear he would be happy to identify Democrats as the party of big government and of wealth redistribution. When Cuomo said Sanders seemed to be saying he would grow government “bigger than ever,” Sanders didn’t quarrel, saying, “P eople want to criticize me, okay,” and “F ine, if that’s the criticism, I accept it.”

Sanders accepts it, but are Democrats ready to accept ownership of socialism, massive tax increases and a dramatic expansion of government? If so, they will lose.

Match up polls are worthless because these polls do not measure what would happen to Sanders in a general election where Sanders is very vulnerable to negative ads.

The so-called attacks on Sanders so far pale in comparison to that the GOP will do to Sanders if he is the nominee

jcgoldie

(11,647 posts)
27. truth
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 09:37 AM
Apr 2016

She's doing it right. Unless you read too much DU, you realize mathematically his chances of winning the nomination are minuscule. That being the case why would she attack Sanders aggressively and further split the party?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
26. Clinton has decided it's not worth it to risk civil war in the party.
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 09:35 AM
Apr 2016

He has been given a free ride.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
29. They will portray any Democrat as a "socialist", a "communist", an "anti-capitalist."
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 09:43 AM
Apr 2016

Might as well choose our best candidate despite the names R's might call him.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
31. They tried it on Obama. How'd that work out for them?
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 09:45 AM
Apr 2016

And the Clinton campaign did try a little red baiting early on. It just didn't stick.

awake

(3,226 posts)
34. How would going negative in any way help Hillary
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 10:02 AM
Apr 2016

I know you are disappointed that Hillary has not wrapped this up yet but if she went any more negative on Bernie now her own rating would go down which she can not afford to do. Hillary's unfavorable rating are above 50% the only candidate with a higher unfavorable rating is Trump. For the life of me I can not understand why Hillary is not promoting her own ideas and solutions to today's problems. Mud slinging only gets mud all over yourself. What Hilary has not understood is that part of why people like Bernie is that he is offering solutions to problems that need to be addressed, I am sure that Hillary must have some new ideas of her own that she could be promoting instead of trying right wing tactics.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
35. The tactics that might help Trump would hurt Clinton.
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 10:05 AM
Apr 2016

If Clinton were to do that, voters would abandon her.

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
38. OF COURSE Republicans will try to tear him apart and call him names.
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 10:18 AM
Apr 2016

That's what they do. Democrats should not employ the same tactics, although I have to give Hillary a hand, she's done a really good job emulating them.

The more they attack Bernie, the better he does. Think about it.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
42. If you worry about Hillary going too easy on Bernie
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 10:56 AM
Apr 2016

You have to be terrified of Bernie going too easy on Hillary, particularly given how hard the MSM has worked to prop her up. Imagine the GOP carpet bombing the airways with one ad after another showing back to back videos of Hillary on one side of an issue and then the other, like the ones that are on YouTube ("13 minutes of Hillary Clinton lying", "When you realize Hillary is fake", etc.). And then there is the goldmine of corrupt foreign governments pouring money into the cesspool that is the Clinton Foundation, Bill and Hillary's speaking fees, etc.

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