2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumActress Rosario Dawson Should Apologize to Dolores Huerta This Cesar Chavez Day
An apology by Dawson to Huerta would be a sign of respect and a signal towards healing if she does so.
Dawson could have picked up the phone to call Dolores Huerta regarding differences in political opinions, but instead she chose to be used as a tool for the Bernie Sanders campaign in writing an open scathing letter.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deedee-garcia-blase/actress-rosario-dawson-sh_b_9585698.html
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)is, that Huerta is no longer relevant.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)to insult civil rights icons!
What the hell is wrong with these ungrateful idiots?
Response to upaloopa (Reply #1)
BillZBubb This message was self-deleted by its author.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I guess the people wanting her to apologize have no link to Dolores apologizing for being misleading if not outright lying.
LexVegas
(6,089 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)And they did the same to John Lewis, repeatedly.
LexVegas
(6,089 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)that some of these same people actually praise Trump as a revolutionary figure!
2banon
(7,321 posts)You said:
Link please.
artislife
(9,497 posts)wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)is a sellout.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)lack of respect shown to her--by Sanders supporters not only here but everywhere that was visible--was what convinced me I wanted no part of that movement, that it was more of a social signaling opportunity for the sanctimonious rather than a genuine revoution or movement for social change.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 1, 2016, 09:00 PM - Edit history (1)
reddread
(6,896 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)or... maybe not?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And by support I mean constant vilification of Bernie, his supporters and everything he stands for.
Woe is us.
reddread
(6,896 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)a cover story that was earlier in the calendar.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)And the resulting loss in Nevada confirmed that. Sanders supporters immediately pivoting to Trump told the true story there. I knew Weaver had written off SC and was OK with that strategy, but from NV forward the efforts to have a broad based appeal diminished significantly.
This is not Sanders doing though.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)He hired these guys, and he's been a big proponent of the one-size fits all approach to arguing about social justice. Which works until it doesn't fit the bedrock of our base, people of color and women.
Angry populist campaigns come down to us vs them. Problem is that it becomes a vicious cycle when there are whole segments of the electorate about whom there was very little effort made to learn. Message falls flat, gets rejected, those not getting on board get deemed not us but them. So we get crap like low information voters, Confederacy, Stockholm Syndrome, we didn't try to win those states, no Internet, etc.
A lot of noise has been made about how it's a matter of people not getting to know the candidate. People know who the candidate is. The problem is that the candidate never bothered to get to know who the voters were.
Him trying to work the tables at a church in South Carolina instead of sitting down and engaging is really quite the microcosm of the campaign. Listening is one of the most underrated political skills.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I mean, you can see it in his eyes he doesn't believe it half the time. Whenever he throws out a smear he often stumbles. The "damn emails" Sanders is the real one. Once this is over watch for a significant pivot in arguing style. It's going to piss off a shitload of Sanders "supporters" because they have been fed this utter stream of vile hatred from Weaver and Devine.
I remember the debates after the hack and predicted Sanders would apologize, and sooooo many people were just astonished.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)If he's this easily lead astray but lesser lights like Weaver and Devine, no way in hell is he fit to run the executive branch.
Am I wrong to think he really doesn't want to be President, but is now running on competitive juices?
It will be a tougher pivot than Clinton had to do when endorsing Obama. Her critique on him was that he was too soft, not tough enough, not ready for the fight. Well, he took every punch from her and won, so she could say to her supporters, tough fight but really this guy does have what it takes.
What's he going to say around June 10, sorry the dream is dead learn to love the corrupt system?
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)"Embellished half truths to appeal to my base, Clinton will make a fine president."
Of course, Clinton is one to reach out, so they'll likely sit down and discuss what he wants in the platform, so he will march in there and act like he got all these fantastic reforms in the platform. Clinton would probably give him credit.
Obviously though he can't be gracious in defeat like Clinton though, not at this point, there will have to be a show.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I imagine it would be wrapped up fairly quickly, she wants to get it behind her and he'd be in for some pretty brutal media coverage if he dithered.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I'm noticing a disturbing trend and it's ugly.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Susan was slut shamed, accused of "latching" onto younger men and called vile names by so-called liberals.
I'm sure they're just getting started on Rosario.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)I'm proud of both Susan and Rosario!
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)blaming the victim of workplace sexual harassment don't forget.
A black woman of impeccable character I might add, adding a bit of racism to his resume.
The only thing surprising me is that he hasn't started showing off his specialties sooner regarding his misogynistic racism.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Up and out.
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)Clinton campaign supporters - Stop trying to divide people to garner votes for Sec. Clinton. Shame on you!
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)They should lose for this alone. They've tried to divide women, AA and now the Hispanic community merely to get votes. They don't care what happens to the people they are dividing. All they care about is how they can use them. It turns my stomach. I've campaigned for plenty of Democrats in my life (I'm 59) but I've never seen a campaign so carelessly destructive as the Hillary campaign. I am totally turned off to her campaign by this divisive style of campaigning. Let's hope that some honest Hillary supporters speak out about this and shut it down.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)Clinton campaign's version of carpet bombing. They don't care that innocent people get hurt as long as they get what they want.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Your analogy is more fitting on second thought
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)The cluster bomb is one of the most hated and heinous weapons in modern war, and its primary victims are children.
Senator Obama voted for the amendment to ban cluster bombs. Senator Clinton, however, voted with the Republicans to kill the humanitarian bill, an amendment in accord with the Geneva Conventions, which already prohibit the use of indiscriminate weapons in populated areas
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2008/03/13/cluster-bombs-are-not-good-children-hillary.
BTW, Senator Sanders was an original sponsor of this bill. He Voted for the amendment to ban cluster bombs.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)People have no idea how deadly these things are or their fail rate. Only to go off when picked up by a kid. Very hard to disarm as well. Trust me
beedle
(1,235 posts)... into family from SEA, I hold a "special place in hell" for politicians who support these kinds of evil, vile, child, murdering and torturing, weapons.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Do you Bernie supporters ever take responsibility for anything?
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)I think Dawson is generally right and if anyone should be apologizing, to me, it should be Huerta apologizing to Bernie Sanders for her dishonest criticism of Sanders position on immigration (I'm going back to her remarks in Nevada).
I do not care what Huerta has done in the past with respect to this issue. Obviously, she did some great things but that doesn't give her license to deceive people about Sanders record.
Good for Rosario Dawson for calling out Huerta on this.
When John Lewis got out of line and was wrong, he was big enough to apologize or correct the record.
Evidently, Huerta isn't.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Bernie recently. Same characterizations of the supporters of Barack and of Bernie. Same exact material. Obama was on the take to dump nuclear waste on poor people, he refused to meet with Latinos, it was endless, lacks judgement, has not wisdom.....
This interview with her from 2008 demonstrates how correct Dawson was.....
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/1/democratic_presidential_nomination_could_hinge_on
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and shout her down in public.
We didn't have limousine liberal folks like Susan Sarandon richsplaining agricultural issues to her.
That's why Obama's campaign succeeded, and why his coalition is the foundation of the modern Democratic party.
For Sanders supporters, Rosario Dawson is courageous hero and Dolores Huerta is a corrupt liar whose allegiance was purchased by bribes from the Clintons.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)And a liar is a liar. If someone wants to be known for their civil rights record, they probably shouldn't eclipse that record by lying in an attempt to deceive people about Sanders.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)inside the Bernie Bubble.
You all go on hating someone whose achievements and dedication and courage you have no hope of ever matching.
frylock
(34,825 posts)The tweet about Bernie bros chanting "ENGLISH ONLY" has still not been corrected. That never happened, regardless of perceptions that differ inside the Bernie bubble.
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)immigration vote for example, documented word for word in congress and posted on this site underneath her BS.
Past Walmart board of director Hillary was willing to do as Walmart wished and vote for a bill that would provide Walmart with labor much cheaper than the US minimum wage. Sanders wouldn't support that and said so and why in Congress. But that's not what Huerta spun.She lied or misrepresented what Sanders did that day and why he stated he did it - which was very consistent with his position on that his entire life.
She also stated falsely that Sanders voting record/support for Latinos was terrible as did Luis Gutierrez. But Sanders life time record on immigration issues rates as well or better than Luis Gutierrez with the National Hispanic Leadership Agenda. That isn't possible if Huerta was speaking the truth.
I could go on and on.
It's beyond different perception. It's flat out lying.
And again, I do not care if she thinks she's the second coming of Christ. A lie is still a lie.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)material and the same coy stances. She's a political operative playing hardball style and she is not above criticism. This is not a religion, we do not have saints. No has the right to play by rules they don't expect to apply to themselves.
According to Dolores, as an Obama supporter you were a hooligan and sort of dangerous and probably bigoted against Latinos. She's say 'I never met him, so I don't know....I don't know....they try to suppress the Latino workers, his supporters, so...I don't know.....'
That's YOU and me, Obama supporters she's talking about. If it was not all true then about Barack and about his supporters that means she is dishonest, and that means she gets called on it when she tries to say the same things about the next candidate. She's not honest. So....I don't know...I don't know.....
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Did we see threads like this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511293322
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511292568
Did we see people repeatedly calling her a liar?
Her fucking charity had to put up a post on Facebook saying they weren't being bribed due to the swarm of Bernie trolls.
https://www.facebook.com/doloreshuertafoundation/posts/10154660262894768
Dolores is the President of our board and volunteers her time for the DHF. She is an individual and entitled to her own political views and actions. These views and actions do not represent the Dolores Huerta Foundation. If you leave comments relating to any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office, your comments will be deleted and you will be banned from posting on the Dolores Huerta Foundation Facebook Page.
Lucky Luciano
(11,258 posts)...for only a couple years at that point, so apples and oranges.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)from trying to destroy and assail someone like Dolores Huerta.
Obama himself constantly pushed the themes of respect and unity. Sanders pushes angry us vs themism. So, when his supporters here how there's a corrupt system, and that Hillary Clinton is a major problematic part of that corrupt system, then his supporters pick up the message that people who support Clinton support corruption and must be corrupt.
There was a determination to respect others regardless of whether they agreed with him on Obama's part, that Sanders completely lacks.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)Bernies' star supporters don't care to pay higher taxes for the good of the people.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)I had forgotten. Excellent post.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Evidently, Huerta isn't.
http://www.salon.com/2016/02/22/dolores_huerta_takes_on_bernies_base_nevada_caucus_flap_speaks_volumes_about_the_frustrations_of_sanders_supporters/
The problem is that dog-piling Huerta is exactly the wrong way to go about appealing to women, people of color, or labor organizers. The accusations of lying are a stark reminder of how women or people of color have long been treated as more mendacious than white men, and the lack of respect for an iconic labor organizer calls into question if these self-proclaimed socialists have even a basic understanding of what socialism is, or the centrality of labor concerns to the very concept of socialism. (This isnt helped by the fact that the Sanders campaign is far more focused on middle-class benefits and Wall Street corruption than traditional socialist concerns like labor organizing or welfare for the poor.)
The attacks on Huerta also reinforce the very image that the Sanders campaign needs to get away from, which is that its about a bunch of well-off white men who are more interested in pushing people around than creating a progressive coalition. Of course, the odds of Sanders actually winning now are incredibly low. The coalition didnt form and Clinton is on the path to the nomination. That were seeing a shift away from trying to play nice to lashing out isnt too surprising, under the circumstances. But its still disappointing to see would-be socialists attacking a scion of the labor movement in this way.
Wannabe keyboard revolutionaries arrogating to themselves the moral authority to literally talk about how small Dolores Huerta is?
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)You do not kiss the ass of someone who is spreading false information about someone else. Huerta did that with Sanders record and I do not care whether she is a man or woman, pink, yellow, red, black or whatever pigmentation you want to conjure up or whether she organizes labor, cleans toilets or runs a Wall Street firm.
It's got absolutely nothing to do with any of that crap.
Huerta made bogus claims about Sanders record. She either knew or should have known. That makes her a spreader of false information - regardless of her sex, color or job.
If she lies or misinforms in front of me, it is my democratic right and duty to call her out and say "You know what folks, as much as they lady might have done some good in her life, that does not give her the privilege to misinform Americans without being call on it." That's all Rosario Dawson really did.
I don't care if it's Dolores Huerta, Barack Obama or God himself. Misinforming people is misinforming people. There is zero doubt in my mind Huerta is guilty of misinforming people and she's perpetuating that in her article - long after she heard the uproar in Nevada.
Good for Ms Dawson for calling her out! Sorry for the jerk at Salon who conjured up the pathetic, ignorant nonsense and spewed it into an article. Nobody has to kiss the arse of citizens who misinform - regardless of their past.
No quarter for those hiding behind their skirt, their complexion or their job. If we're all truly equal, none of that stuff matters. It's got absolutely nothing to do with it. NOBODY is above criticism when they are spreading false stuff about another person. That is democracy and where I come from, that's non-negotiable.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Because her version of reality differed from that shared by the communal Sanders supporter consciousness.
I find that funny, coming from people who lap up everything HA Goodman and Seth Abramson dish out.
Sanders supporters know everything and possess supreme moral authority, as anyone on Twittet or Facebook knows, including the people who run the Facebook page for the Dolores Huerta Foundation and its Facebook page.
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)I did not say that. That's a strawman. Kinda like something Dolores would say lately - it's BS.
"I find that funny, coming from people who lap up everything HA Goodman and Seth Abramson dish out."
I find it funny coming from someone in tiny talent fantasy land who makes smears up like Dolores to try to make a fictitious point. It's a blatantly ignorant comment. My record on Goodman is crystal clear- he's an idiot.
My record on "Seth Abramson" is very brief. I've only seen one article:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511489559#post6
where I likened him to HA Goodman
Grow up and get acquainted with the facts before spewing wrong things about people like Dolores.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I'm guessing no. So kind of odd to refer to her as "Dolores"
When John Lewis got out of line and was wrong, he was big enough to apologize or correct the record.
Apparently Huerta isn't.
I like how you posed that as Lewis being "out of line." Kind of goes with the attitude taken towards Huertaz
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)I only did so in response to a poster who referred to her as Dolores.
1. Strange or biased that you wouldn't call them out for it.
2. Whether I called her Dolores or Huerta or "Huertaz" as you did doesn't really matter. She stated false things about Sanders repeatedly and she's being called on it regardless of what name we type to identify her.
This is just more smoke like the article trying to hide behind her skirt or her race.
Lewis was out of line with some of the things he said and he admitted it. Huerta was out of line with things she said but won't admit it - she just carries on with her smears. I guess she falls closer to Hillary's dishonest ways like Huerta did in 2008 against Obama.
I didn't know as much about Dolores Huerta as I did John Lewis. But one thing is for sure: for all of the good some claim she has done, I know her as a dishonest person because after the facts got pointed out to her, unlike John Lewis, she kept up repeating the dishonest facts.
John Lewis proved the kind of man he's always been. He was at least man enough to admit some of his error. Dolores Huerta is no John Lewis and after this, in my eyes, never will be. Like the candidate she supports, she's not an honest person.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Pathetic. As in I feel sorry for anyone who is so ignorant of the history of the struggle for civil and labor rights that they would openly disclaim having any knowledge of Dolores Huerta's role in that history.
Astonishing ignorance.
Sad.
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)You're just doing what Dolores Huerta and Hillary do - standing on your soap box stating things that are not true or accurate.
I said:
"I didn't know as much about Dolores Huerta as I did John Lewis"
I got to know a fair amount about John Lewis because I supported MLK when he was alive. Not knowing Huerta as well does not equate to your claim of "openly disclaim having any knowledge of Dolores Huerta's role in that history."
I'm well aware of her civil rights efforts. But when she cannot be honest, those efforts are tainted by the stain of dishonesty and become a more distant thing of the past. One cannot rest on their laurels forever and have repeated dishonest acts excused by things they did years before.
Unfortunately, all your false claim proves is this is beyond your ability to read and comprehend what people are saying and as result, all you are able to contribute are strawman arguments.
brush
(53,820 posts)That gets repeated over and over and over again, even here on DU, as a not-so-subtle way to bash Obama.
The facts are that because of the long delay in the Al Franken confirmation because of that recount with Coleman Franken wasn't confirmed until July of 2009. And that still didn't give the president the super majority of 60 votes needed to overcome repug filibusters (an unprecedented 400 of them). Then there was the Senate summer recess, the holiday recess, Teddy Kennedy died, and other things. There were only 5 months of an on-paper 60 votes in the Senate and they weren't contiguous. I say "on-paper" and not really usable because of events that happened. Here's the real rundown:
There actually wasnt a two year supermajority.
This timeline shows the facts.
President Obama was sworn in on January 20, 2009 with just 58 Senators to support his agenda.
He should have had 59, but Republicans contested Al Frankens election in Minnesota and he didnt get seated for seven months (July of '09).
The Presidents cause was helped in April when Pennsylvanias Republican Senator Arlen Specter switched parties.
That gave the President 59 votes still a vote shy of the super majority.
But one month later, Democratic Senator Byrd of West Virginia was hospitalized and was basically out of commission.
So while the Presidents number on paper was 59 Senators he was really working with just 58 Senators.
Then in July, Minnesota Senator Al Franken was finally sworn in, giving President Obama the magic 60 but only in theory, because Senator Byrd was still out.
In August, Senator Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts died and the number went back down to 59 again until Paul Kirk temporarily filled Kennedys seat in September.
Any pretense of a supermajority ended on February 4, 2010 when Republican Scott Brown was sworn into the seat Senator Kennedy once held. Do you see a two-year supermajority?"
So let's stop perpetuating, maybe unknowingly, what is really a repug talking point. There was no two year super majority that Obama squandered.
And maybe pull the coat of uninformed surrogates and others who repeat that crap.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Didn't happen, but she should have.
jfern
(5,204 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)TSIAS
(14,689 posts)She spread the lie that Bernie supporters were chanting "English only!"
I will not partake in any of her commercial ventures until she issues an apology for that scandalous tweet.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Just because her perception of reality differed from that inside the Bernie Bubble does not make her an evil liar.
Please, go ahead. It was fun watching this blow up in your face the first time.
Kall
(615 posts)Her "perception of reality differed." Kind of like the Bosnian Sniper Fire incident, I guess.
One would hope that since actual reality was captured on video and contradicted her perception of it, she would clarify that her perception wasn't what happened.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)That in fact did happen.
Was she going to jump through hoops to satisfy the Millennials on Twitter calling her a corrupt liar?
Go ahead and keep on assuring yourselves of your moral superiority to actual revolutionaries and activists. Because, between satisfying one's self of righteousness and conducting effective outreach, we all know what is more important to y'all.
Kall
(615 posts)they called for an unaffiliated translator, as video of the incident demonstrated.
Clarifying that what happened is not what she said happened is not "jumping through hoops", it's the least that people have a right to expect.
I'm not about to argue about whether sticking with versions of events which never happened to paint people as racists in the name of electoral victory is okay. You go right ahead. Apparently the Bush crew weren't the only ones who felt they could create their own reality.
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)1. John Lewis apologizes to Bernie for saying he was not part of the Civil Rights Movement 2. DWS apologizes to Bernie for rigging the game for Hillary. 3. The person who made sure Bernie was left off the ballot in DC apologizes to him. 4. Hillary apologizes to the woman she yelled at yesterday.
Can anyone add on??????
Dr. Strange
(25,921 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,974 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Sure is working out well for you.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Nope nope nope. Not happening.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and she doesn't owe any poseur punks on the Internet shit.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Thats just a simple statement of fact.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)Interesting...
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)A certain campaign has been using a variation of that despicable strategy. Continuously. And with a vengeance.
And I don't like its tone.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Didn't think so.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,974 posts)she was surprised because they didn't look very much alike but she considered Dawson an outstanding actress and was very pleased.
I figure those two people can work out their own differences. Dawson's letter to Huerta was very respectful but honest about her feelings. How Huerta responded I have no idea. But they are grown ups and can work it out amongst themselves I would think. I don't think blogs and postings on DU mean much to either of them.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Now Dawson after Susan the idiot Sarandon lied about her during the Nevada caucus.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Yesterday it was Susan Sarandon. Today it's Rosario Dawson.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)how many people wanna kick some ass?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)azmom
(5,208 posts)Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)with conservative anti-union conservative anti-minimum wage increase third way Democratic.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Vote2016
(1,198 posts)kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Cowpunk
(719 posts)How dare you question the words of such an icon. Check your Puerto Rican privilege, little girl.