Massive NYC Sanders crowd "Smells like Woodstock." MSNBC.

[Atman]

Surprise! Morning Joe tries to prop up Hillary while showing the massive Bernie crowd yesterday. "It looks like Woodstock!" Said Joe. "It smells like Woodstock. Hillary's already got a lock on this."

WTF?

They admitted they don't get it. Hillary can't turn out enough people to fill up a Chucky Cheese, but Bernie it drawing tens of thousands. How is Hillary a lock?

[JackInGreen]

1. I have few objections to the label

the cannibias is thick and far more of a stench, to whit:

[roguevalley]

101. they say such things because they speak their hope, not our reality

[Snotcicles]

112. Maybe their contracts had amendments that they must say that. After all it is MSNBC. nt

[MADem]

2. Justin Beiber can draw tens of thousands--and they will PAY to get in the venue.

Justin Beiber doesn't have a hope in hell of becoming POTUS, though.

[morningfog]

9. Yeah, they are totally the same. Get off my fucking lawn.

[MADem]

10. I'm not on your lawn. I did say something that upset you, clearly.

You know that kid is gonna sell out ALL these venues:

http://www.ticketmaster.com/Justin-Bieber-tickets/artist/1369961

He will fill every seat and those fans will scream and cry and buy tee shirts and think it was the best concert EVER...and they will pay a bundle to put their behinds in those chairs.

But even if this kid were an American citizen, of age for the Presidency, he wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting elected.

[morningfog]

11. You have displayed your disdain for youth voters and their engagement in the process repeatedly.

Get off my precinct!

[MADem]

16. OK, let's strip out Justin B, and insert Tony Bennett. Feel better now?

How about Cher? Or Madonna? They can draw crowds, too.

Point is, people will pay to see them, the venues will be filled, but they still don't have enough support to be elected to national office.

Crowds do not translate into "overwhelming support." They look good, they can create buzz, but Ralph Nader managed to fill Boston Garden.

He didn't win Massachusetts.

[polly7]

29. You're saying those people showing up expect nothing from Sanders?

I saw pictures of the long lines this morning ....... the people in them all look pretty intelligent, to me. I doubt they believe they're going to anything other than a political rally.

[MADem]

30. No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Not even close. Where'd ya get THAT? nt

[polly7]

32. Well you said it was the same as a crowd showing up for Justin Bieber.

Where'd ya get THAT?

[MADem]

40. They're enamoured--to the point they're willing to pay to hear what they want to hear.

That doesn't mean Justin is going to make their lives better, or marry them, or whisk them away on a unicorn farting rainbows to a cloud in the sky where there are no problems, ever--but they pay for that fantasy, even if it only lasts for an hour or two.

Ralph Nader could pack 'em in, too. The only way he'd get to the WH is if he took the tour.

?zz=1

[polly7]

43. Ahhh ........... gotcha.

They're 'enamoured', stupid people who haven't got a clue about politics, what's at stake for them, the U.S., the world ....... they're just brainwashed (by something or other - it can't be Bernie if they're not politically motivated and therefore wouldn't even listen to him - cause that's what he does - talks politics) masses.

Thanks for the explanation.

[MADem]

49. YOU--not me--are the one calling them "stupid." And "brainwashed."

Why would you do that? I thought you liked these people--why in the world would you call them names like that? And then try to pretend that your nasty and invented characterizations are MY "explanation?"

Goading and baiting is never a good look. I'd advise against it.


People become enamoured of things and people they like, be it Bieber or Bernie. It doesn't make them stupid--it just makes them possessed of a particular POV.

The bottom line, though, is this: A crowd in a stadium doesn't necessarily mean that the WORLD is onboard with the guy speaking to (or singing to) that crowd.

[polly7]

57. Boring and deceptive. Go argue your Bieber 'enamoured' masses excuse to someone else.

It's clear 'exactly' what you mean.

Your 'bottom line' is absolutely stupid - who on earth would think the 'WORLD!' is on-board with anyone addressing a crowd?

[MADem]

59. If you're characterizing your own attempt to put words in my mouth, you are accurate.

What I mean is what I say.

You should try talking about the topic, instead of about ME.

The pivot to attack the messenger any time anything less than hyperbolic Sanders praise is forthcoming is noted. It's obvious, and yes, boring.

[polly7]

62. "What I mean is what I say" - exactly. Got it the first time.

Bernie crowds are just like Bieber's - they don't mean anything. They're just 'enamoured' masses who are star-struck by a 70'ish gentleman with funny hair.

[MADem]

64. You're working so hard to miss the point. And now you're adding "funny hair!" nt

[polly7]

65. Nah ... not working hard at all stating your point. nt.

[MADem]

70. Gee, you respond twice to one post? I'd say that's working overtime! LOL~! nt

[polly7]

72. Did you get the 'oops, I forgot something' (that would mean I omitted something in the original

post in reply).

So disingenuous and baiting. Not something I'd advise.

[MADem]

75. Yep, you're working overtime! As for disingenuous and baiting, I believe that is your franchise. nt

[polly7]

66. oops .......... forgot something.

I don't care what you advise.

[MADem]

67. Sure you don't--that's why you keep changing the subject .... to ME. nt

[polly7]

69. Always, always about you ............ Absolutely. I know that. nt.

[MADem]

71. Really--you should just stop doing it. It never works to make an issue personal.

Anyone reading this thread can see you pivot from the topic to me. It's a lame trick, and when I see it, I will point it out.

[polly7]

76. 'Lame' was your insinuation that Bernie Sanders supporters are just 'enamoured' masses

standing in line just like at a Bieber concert. You should have stopped at ...... well .... before you started.

[MADem]

78. Now you're twisting and inventing some more...."standing in line?" That's your imagery.

All you've done is avoid the topic and focus on ME. Over and over again. You characterize me and put words in my mouth. Repeatedly.

You should quit while you're behind.

It's becoming obvious that you just are trying to get me to say something intemperate. I'm not annoyed, or irritated, or piqued by you, so that's not going to happen. I prefer to stick to issues, but when people--like you--start characterizing me, I don't let it slide. I point it out.

Stop characterizing me, stop getting personal, and I won't keep pointing out what you are doing. But if you do want to go on in this fashion, I've all day.

[polly7]

81. ummm ...... get over yourself. I just replied to your silly post. Don't post stupid shit if you

don't want replies to it.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

111. She attacks all sorts of people in the same way. Common denominator: her.

[polly7]

116. Thank you, yes, I've noticed that.

So unnecessary.

[MADem]

115. Now, now--no need to be churlish.

polly7
81. ummm ...... get over yourself. I just replied to your silly post. Don't post stupid shit if you
View profile
don't want replies to it.

[frylock]

85. They're enamoured.

#I'mWithHer

[MADem]

117. That's simple solidarity....

After all #ShesWithMe works too.

But no one's feeling any "bern" --you'd have to be at least somewhat enamoured to get to that point in the relationship~!

[senz]

45. Bogus comparison. Beiber provides music, Bernie provides TRUTH.

Bit of difference, ya know?

[MADem]

46. I'll bet plenty of JB ticket holders believe his music is the ultimate "TRUTH."

So, no....no difference. Perception is what it is.

[senz]

61. But...Beiber didn't just win 3 primaries, did he? Hmm.

Your comparison is silly, MADem. It sounds desperate.

[cannabis_flower]

100. And he's not running either

the comparison is lame.

[MADem]

109. I guess you didn't read post 2.

Point is, anyone can draw a crowd--some can even get people to PAY to get in the door.

Doesn't mean they can get people to the polls.

[cannabis_flower]

110. It's just that

you act like Sanders hasn't won any states. Counting them up Clinton has won 18, Sanders has won 14. There are still 18 states to go. It might be hard for Bernie to pull it out but it isn't impossible.

[MADem]

114. I never said "Sanders hasn't won any states."

He has won quite a few states. He does very well in caucus states, in states with homogeneous population bases, in rural states, in states where RBKA is a thing, in states where the population is low(er), He does less well in multicultural, high population density, and urban primary states. It will be very difficult for him to "pull it out"--close to, if not, impossible.

It's not about the states--it's about the delegates that come with each state.

That said, I've never advocated for him to leave the race. Not once. Stay, enjoy, kick it, keep going, keep telling those fans to donate, get young people interested in the process, keep holding those rallies. Do whatcha need to do, stick for as long as ya need to.

[bigtree]

3. how many of those folks are actually eligible to vote

...in the closed NY primary?

Still watching dead intern Joe?

[Atman]

6. I'm babysitting...it's that or Paw Patrol

I don't have cable, so I catch up at the kids house. I put Morning Joe and it puts the girls into a coma while I drink my coffee.

[CorkySt.Clair]

39. The show felates the Donald

and spends the rest of the time bashing Hillary and Democrats, literally 5 days a week.

So yeah, that would be like catnip to a Sanders supporter. No surprise they dig him and the theme of the show.

[KeepItReal]

4. Because his bosses at NBC Universal and Comcast are funding her campaign

http://stopthecap.com/2015/06/16/comcast-hosting-2700-a-plate-fundraiser-for-hillary-clintons-presidential-bid/

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Top-Comcast-Lobbyist-Hosting-Hillary-Clinton-Fundraiser-134215

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/05/clinton-foundation-donors-include-dozens-of-media-organizations-individuals-207228

It's old news, though and everyone should already know this stuff, they would say.

[djean111]

5. It is widely believed and accepted that Hillary has already purchased the nomination

with money and power, and that all of Bernie's supporters will be falling into line.

Minus me, for starters.

Certainly Morning Joe has his orders. That's why I don't watch.

[gordianot]

12. I want to know where my check is because I want free stuff.

Oh darn I forgot it is cheaper to pay off vote counters. Maybe a Streisand concert would do the trick.

[senz]

44. The short clip provided in this thread is worth watching.

It's surprisingly honest, for a change.

[gordianot]

7. Those damn dirty idealistic hippies just do not feel the love Hillary exudes from every pore.

Just what is needed in 2016 old hippie comparisons, but am fairly certain there is a Nixonian scandal brewing some where. I do hope the millennials make better choices than the baby boomers before they embrace old establishment politics.

[marions ghost]

18. They are Boomer Spawn

before we throw all the Boomers into a pit and cover it up, let us recall that the majority of the Millennials have Boomer parents:

[haikugal]

26. I thank you for that Marion's ghost...

I get tired of hippy and boomer punching.

[senz]

35. Have often wondered if that could be part of their amazing mental freedom.

Something went right, that's for sure.

[marions ghost]

94. Lots went right from what I can see

The Millennials didn't hatch out from underneath mushrooms and graduate from Hogwarts school.
Somebody raised em and did a darn good job.

Much maligned Boomers, take a bow.

Very proud of my extended Millennial tribe and of the whole awesome generation. They are banding together and making their voices heard politically (as many of their parents did way back when). The Millennials have a good inner compass --they look for truth and honesty--and they see the games. They know that we all deserve better than what we have at present. And obviously they know they have to show up (in various ways) to be heard.

I love all generations living on the earth. We are only divided by those who would divide us for their own gain.

[gordianot]

47. I am grateful every day to the boomer gods for my daughters fate.

She is gainfully employed has her masters degree paid for and is not living at home in her room. Her College loans are under control and lives fully in the fact based world. Mom and Dad did not fix it she did it herself. It is so sad the 20 somethings who live in the basement and live by tending bar with advanced degrees.

[marions ghost]

95. The waste of human potential is staggering

--something is wrong with this picture (and I think we know what it is).

Congrats to your daughter. Like you I know many who are not doing so well. And parents strapped and stressed trying to help them. And hard earned college degrees that lead nowhere.
Such a racket. We are living what happens when vulture capitalism takes over.

[Zen Democrat]

8. I woke up early this morning and checked MJ because I wanted their take on the Bronx rally.

I think the "Hillary's a lock statement" was said with sarcasm. The panel discussed the amazing crowds Bernie is turning out and all agreed it's NOT over. Especially if Bernie takes New York.

[RiverLover]

37. Exactly. This thread should be deleted. MJ gave major props to Bernie.

This just makes us look uninformed.

PLUS the other day, MJ talked about how Bernie gets no respect despite winning so many states~

They explain how badly the DNC has rigged our primary.

MJ is the ONLY ONE talking about this in MSM> We should be thanking them. Not missing obvious sarcasm.

[senz]

42. Wow, thank you! What she said is what we have been saying all along.

I'm amazed, it's like a crack in the ceiling letting the truth in!

[RiverLover]

48. LOL. True! We're so used to all corporate media working against us, we filter through that lens

& miss when they're actually being honest & doing right.

[Gwhittey]

58. I wonder if that radio dude in WI

is the straw on camels back that finally got the news to say Oh maybe we should be honest.

[senz]

63. I wish I knew what you're talking about, Gwhittey,

because it sounds really interesting. What radio dude in WI?

[Gwhittey]

68. Charlie Sykes

[senz]

84. Thanks!

[senz]

96. Rewatched. They say it: the Dem Party is rigged for Hillary.

How excellent to hear it validated on the MSM.

Around here, scoundrels laugh at us and call us conspiracy theorists ... bless their dishonest little souls ...

[Merryland]

103. I didn't hear the comment, but I watched & agree with you

I heard a lot of challenging of Clinton. Of course, this seems to shift back & forth.

[HockeyMom]

13. A friend of my daughter went to this

It was his very first political rally. He's in his mid 30's (not Millennial), from the Bronx of Puerto Rican heritage, works in Security for a major retail store, and is in the NY Army National Guard. He posted pictures saying, "Feeling the BERN!". "It was GREAT".

"Dirty Hippy"?

[Atman]

17. My son lives in Brooklyn.

28, BS degree...total Bernie fan. He's not a dirty hippie.

[haikugal]

27. A lot of those Hippies served too. n/t

[Adsos Letter]

74. Present!

Raises hand.

[haikugal]

80. Thank you!

Much is forgotten sometimes!

[HockeyMom]

83. Yes, I knew quite a few

[TheBlackAdder]

14. Yeah, SIX-Year-Old Joe Scarborough would know what Wookstock looked and smelled like!

.


Correction: SIX-year-old Joe Scarborough.

.

[FlatBaroque]

15. There are emergency in place at all media outlets to do damage control

after Her meltdown.

[PATRICK]

19. As an upstater

I tried to explain to my son the inertial force of Clinton's NY support, both organizational and in the populace, the favors owed, the constituencies, the rallying of the state elected officials, etc. I argued that Jesse Jackson took advantage of some disaffection with the "outsider" Dukakis who seemed to have a "lock" by the time it got to NY. The people were dissatisfied, energized and gave Jackson the state. BTW Sanders endorsed Jackson over his fellow independent New Englander which is ancient history perhaps in the current mix. Each election is different. By the time it jumbles the mix it boils down to core backing, enthusiasm and the particular drama that energizes our fairly liberal voting base. It can get ornery.

But as for actually fraud or cheating or blaming crossover voters, etc. it isn't much of an issue.

He countered with saying all the young workers he knows that are registered Dems dislike HRC rather intensely, that certain wealthy investors also dislike her and that her "support" in NYC is polarized(like Bloomberg's in much different way, of course). People voting because of economic advantages or favors is more significant than you care to admit in a primary where usually the turnout is much less than in the general. Yet the 'enthusiasm" factor, that they love her in NY, is rather forced. That you can see everywhere.

In sum, it should be close- or a startling big one for Sanders. It is a state, when given the chance, lusts to make a big, sometimes seemingly spiteful, difference. This state has been the dutiful victim of economic centrist policies and has ponied up money and jobs seemingly for everyone else in the world. The announcement of a new minimum wage that HRC unwisely tried to tamper down the possibility earlier in the campaign may be one of those mood factors propelling Sanders, despite the Governor and Dems supporting HRC being largely responsible for this fairly progressive victory. Or it may work the other way?

Clinton has to score big in NYC. Depressed upstate is no salvation. The young- read disadvantaged workers- intend to vote.

[NorthCarolina]

20. Because the peeps just get one vote each and many of those can easily be compromised if need be.

The vote of an SD however is worth 10,000 votes of the peeps and ALWAYS counts.

[senz]

31. Evocative comment...

Welcome to DU!

[senz]

38. lol, instant memories of old boyfriend and mother, respectively.

Scents do have a way of bypassing rationality!

[VulgarPoet]

22. It's hippie punching day already in the M$M?

Why am I completely and utterly unsurprised.

[Zorra]

23. If you watch RW extremist propaganda shows, expect to see extreme RW propaganda.

"As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it." ~ Dick Cavett

[senz]

73. Thanks, Zorra. Rich, interesting clip for me.

Jimi was so aware, alert, nuanced, real. Add that to guitar genius. I so wish he (and Janis) had lived.

Cavett, too, was right there telling the truth. Jimi's peace salute, hackneyed and forgotten now, reminded me of the distinct counterculture consciousness of the time. It seems we're just about ready for something like that again.

[Ino]

24. I heard this clip differently...

They were NOT propping up Hillary! Mika said she understands Hillary has a lock on this... because everyone says she does, because Hillary says she does. Joe said she does NOT have a lock on it. Those who say Bernie can't win are WRONG. That was one tiny part of a long segment praising Sanders profusely.

They talked about how ridiculous the "tone" complaint was, how Hillary can't possibly draw the same crowds as Bernie, how the DNC has rigged the process all along -- in Iowa, in superdelegates, in debates -- how her support is collapsing in state after state, how "joyous" Bernie's crowds are, the FBI investigation.

"This is Bernie Sanders' (Democratic) Party right now, and this guy's proven he's got the stuff."

This bit was very complimentary towards Bernie, very sour on Hillary. Recommended watching!

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe

[Tom Rinaldo]

25. Me too. Mika called it a lock but Joe corrected her. Amazingly pro Bernie segment in full

Several guests admitted that it was possible Hillary could lose NY though she's still favored there in their minds. If so the consensus was this race is far from settled.

[senz]

28. The Woodstock comparison is a clumsy attempt to marginalize Bernie's supporters.

Calling Hillary a lock is an attempt to invalidate the entire Sanders campaign.

Their desperation is apparent.

[Ino]

33. Did you listen to the clip?

IMO, the OP has mischaracterized & exaggerated two small comments out of a long segment. They were very complimentary towards Sanders, and very dismissive & critical of Hillary.

[senz]

36. Hope you're right, Ino. Will do.

A bit surprised to hear it, though.

[BernieforPres2016]

53. I watched and that segment was pro Bernie

Kind of amazing that 2 people who have a morning political talk show seemed to just now be grasping what's going on with the Sanders campaign.

Paraphrasing some of their comments: Did you see the enthusiasm? They're not cheering for jokes like at Trump's rallies. Bernie talks about an issue and the crowd goes nuts. Could Hillary ever get a crowd like that?

The most interesting thing I heard was that the Clinton campaign is very concerned about how many votes Bernie has been able to turn whenever he has time to make a lot of speeches and the ground game of his campaign has time to work. They said that the early primaries were compressed, but they are very concerned about the 2 week gap between Wisconsin and New York. Perhaps that helps explain why Hillary flew off the handle a couple of times yesterday. I think Bernie is living in her head rent free.

[Autumn Colors]

41. How is Hillary a lock?

They must already know that stolen primary is in the bag.

[RiverLover]

52. They were being sarcastic. The OP missed it. /nt

[BernieforPres2016]

54. Watch the segment

The OP is a mischaracterization of it, as others have said.

[Dem2]

50. 420 baby

got that herb

[CentralCoaster]

51. Maybe "Woodstock" as in a remarkably large number of people, a movement.

They seem to be talking about the phenomenon, they mention the diversity, the numbers, they are in awe.

They're also defending Bernie over the "tone" bullshit, saying he's talking about issues.

Not to defend MSNBC, but I don't think this was hippie bashing.

[BernieforPres2016]

60. Exactly right, that's why they referenced it

And also how engaged and enthusiastic the crowd is. They contrasted it with Hillary's campaign, and even with Trump's crowds, where the applause is for some joke or off the cuff remark for Trump. Bernie's crowd is going nuts when he talks about breaking up the big banks and raising the minimum wage.

It was as if Joe and Mika had never even bothered to look at a Sanders rally before; maybe they haven't. They asked the NBC reporter who has been following the campaigns if his crowds were always like this and she said yes, though the one yesterday was the most diverse she had seen because it was in the South Bronx.

Mika said everybody all the so called experts have been saying that Hillary has it locked up. Scarborough said that despite everything the Democratic Party has tried to do to fix the race for Hillary, it is far from over.

[jalan48]

55. The radical split in the 60's Democratic Party is alive and well.

Last edited Fri Apr 1, 2016, 12:14 PM - Edit history (1)

On the one side we have the corporate war mongers and on the other, those dirty hippie types. The more things change the more they stay the same.

[senz]

77. Yes, how nice of ConservaDems to provide our own version of Republicanism!

Especially since the real repubs lost their minds and left a vacuum to be filled.

[jalan48]

79. Exactly. A sleight of hand to push the country further right.

When citizens choose labels over issues bad things happen to our democracy.

[senz]

86. So well said. Every Hill fan should read it.

In fact I'm tempted to put it in my sig line -- w/props to you, of course.

May I?

[jalan48]

87. Of course. Now i'm flattered-this isn't good!

[senz]

90. I feel the same way about flattery, jalan.

Take it as sincere agreement with your well-expressed thought!

[jalan48]

91. Thank you and Go Bernie!

[amborin]

56. MSNBC owned by Comcast--big donors to HRC

[workinclasszero]

82. "Smells like Woodstock"

That bad eh?

[Myrina]

88. I find it particularly interesting that so many of the generation OF Woodstock ....

.... many of whom got into public service / political life because they were in their teens / college years in the 60's and were "true believers" in change then, are now the stodgiest, most status quo, pearl grasping cluckers in the "no you can't" crowd.

What the hell happened to them? Was their hope for a better society only as it related to themselves? Disappointing.

[senz]

92. Hey, not all of us.

It wasn't a monolith; it was a mix, as these things usually are. Some were just having fun (sex, drugs, rock&roll), some were politically aware and actively pursuing peace and justice, and some were seeking higher meaning (or any meaning) in life. So you had the everyday, good-time hippie, the protester/activist, and the flower child. With various combinations.

Many of us, though we pursued careers and adapted somewhat to the eventual corporate takeover of our society, kept the excellent liberal progressive values of the time. Good stuff doesn't just die away.

[Myrina]

97. Did you not see the word "MANY" on my post?

The word "ALL" wasn't used. Anywhere.

Jeez.

[senz]

98. So sorry, no offense intended.

It's just that I've heard similar complaints about Boomers and felt it was time for someone to speak up on our behalf.

I really did not intend it as a criticism of you, Myrina -- just as an answer to a common criticism.

Okay?

[Merryland]

106. I'm proud of my hippie roots!

and though I've changed enormously over the years, the important values of that era - peace & love - remain my values. And when I hear Bernie, I hear peace & love. From the other camp, I hear condescencion, division, orders to "settle". I become more of a Bernie or Buster with each passing day.

[senz]

118. For sure, Merryland. Same here.

[riversedge]

89. I have read and seen the pics of Woodstock--muddy and stinky and dirty.

[senz]

93. Ew. Just like everything "Bernie."

Right, riversedge?

[Ash_F]

99. Outside of those instances you mentioned, the commenters gave mostly praise in the 20 minute segment

I saw the video and think it was mostly favorable to the Sanders campaign.

[Little_Wing]

104. Hillary crowd: Smells like cocktail hour in the Beltway n/t

[Jitter65]

105. Do they mean it smells like a lot of marijuana? nt

[Kalidurga]

107. It's like they know just what to say to people that Bernie would appeal to.

Yes, say Woodstock a few more times loud and clear and more people will go to the rallies. Say Hillary is a lock and more people go to the rallies and show up to vote.

[tabasco]

108. If you watch the corporate whore media networks,

you are being indoctrinated, whether you know it or not.

[Todays_Illusion]

113. The conservative talkers think invoking images of hippies is a useful scare tactic. mt

[Lodestar]

119. It smells alright...but not of Woodstock.

This continuing discrepancy in Bernie's big numbers and popularity vs. Hillary's much
more subdued numbers and popularity is never addressed. Something does not add up.