I wonder why Hillary doesn't attack Bernie's inconsistencies

[Onlooker]

Bernie's a good man, but you have to consider the fact that he voted to topple Saddam, voted to fund the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and then voted against the Iraq War resolution. He so for gun rights that he voted against the assault weapon ban five times and now he says he favors gun control. He voted against DOMA, not on civil rights grounds, but on states rights grounds, and states rights is exactly the argument the right wing uses to defend their right to discriminate, so when he voted against DOMA he was basically arguing against it on the grounds that Vermont should be free to respect gays and other states should be free to discriminate. On human rights, he talks a great line, but then goes ahead and defends Castro. Yeah, I get it that Bernie is a good man, and his economic policies are the most progressive and, if they can be implemented, the best for the vast majority of us. I don't disagree with that. But, my goodness. He's no saint. Except for his youth, he's led an idealistic life, largely free from the turmoil of the big integrated states where the struggles were really taking place and largely free from the experience of most of us who have had to hold down regular jobs for much of our lives. I guess in that way he's like Jesus, and when that little bird landed on his podium and the crowd went wild, it was easy to see that the love for him runs so deep, but the fact remains he's not that much better than Hillary, and it was nice to see her get angry at that Greenpeace activist for touting a Bernie line that distorts the truth.

[Fairgo]

1. April Fools!

Right?

[Android3.14]

2. Probably too busy defending her own inconsistencies and

Probably too busy defending her own inconsistencies and raking in the money from those paid speeches (cough! bribes cough-cough!).

An honest leader would release those transcripts.

[Aerows]

3. Wall of Text *I'm blinded*

Okay, that was a great practical joke for April Fool's day!

[Prism]

4. Oh jesus

I don't even know where to begin with this mess.

It's like some weird advertisement for cluelessness.

[Hortensis]

12. How about with Sanders wanting to topple Gaddafi?

BSers are big on Libya these days?

Politifact's summary:

Sanders supported a non-binding Senate resolution that called on Gaddafi to resign his post in a peaceful, democratic transition of power. While the Senate passed the resolution by unanimous consent -- meaning no one actually voted on it -- Sanders was one of 10 cosponsors.

At the time, Sanders told the media he wanted Gaddafi out of power, but it might not be worth it if it required sustained U.S. military involvement.

We rate Clinton's statement Mostly True.

I rate it true. These are not his only statements about Libya. Sanders wanted Gaddafi gone (of course -- he was launching a Libyan Holocaust) and supported U.S. military involvement in removing him, just not "sustained."

[beam me up scottie]

14. Where does it say he supported military involvement?

The statement rated true was that Bernie supported regime change, not military action.

Hillary Clinton says Bernie Sanders voted for regime change in Libya

The resolution called for peaceful regime change, saying Gaddafi should "desist from further violence, recognize the Libyan people’s demand for democratic change, resign his position and permit a peaceful transition to democracy."

...

Sanders supported a non-binding Senate resolution that called on Gaddafi to resign his post in a peaceful, democratic transition of power. While the Senate passed the resolution by unanimous consent -- meaning no one actually voted on it -- Sanders was one of 10 cosponsors.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/dec/22/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-says-bernie-sanders-voted-get-rid-/

Whenever you guys don't provide a link I know you're spinning the truth.

[Hortensis]

15. That's ONE little bill. But, sure, ignore the rest.

Ignoring facts is HOW unsustainable beliefs are sustained.

Watch out!!! INCOMING FACTS!

[beam me up scottie]

16. What am I ignoring? "One little bill"? That was the only one you posted, was there another?

You posted facts and came to a conclusion that wasn't supported by them.

If you've been holding out by all means, post the facts that support your claim that he supported military intervention.

I'll wait.

[Punkingal]

21. LOL....too funny!

[beam me up scottie]

5. Didn't we go over this the other night?

he voted to topple Saddam

He voted to support peaceful regime change under Clinton and then voted against military intervention under Bush. He was right both times. Period.

He so for gun rights that he voted against the assault weapon ban five times

No that's a lie, he voted for the assault weapons ban every single time starting in his first term.

now he says he favors gun control.

No kidding because he always favoured gun control, that's why he voted to ban assault weapons and for background checks.

He voted against DOMA, not on civil rights grounds, but on states rights grounds, and states rights is exactly the argument the right wing uses to defend their right to discriminate, so when he voted against DOMA he was basically arguing against it on the grounds that Vermont should be free to respect gays and other states should be free to discriminate.

How many more times does this have to be explained? Why do people who know nothing about civil rights think they can repeatedly smear someone else's civil rights record?

He voted against DOMA because he didn't think the feds should be able to prevent states from passing same sex legislation. A vote against DOMA was a vote to allow states to pass same sex marriage legislation.

The rest of your post makes even less sense. It sounds like you're just making shit up to smear him at this point.

[NCTraveler]

9. Your thoughts on the Iraq Liberation Act are laughable at best.

I think it not an "at best" comment on your part. So he was tricked into multiple days of bombing... Tricked into helping to build public support for larger operations.... This peaceful regime change line is one of the biggest lines of distortion to come from Sanders supporters.

Now go talk about how great of a move it was on Bill Clintons part.

[beam me up scottie]

13. What are you going on about?

So he was tricked into multiple days of bombing.

Where does it say anything about "multiple days of bombing"?:

The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 is a United States Congressional statement of policy stating that "It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq..."[1][2] It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton, and states that it is the policy of the United States to support democratic movements within Iraq. The Act was cited in October 2002 to argue for the authorization of military force against the Iraqi government.

This peaceful regime change line is one of the biggest lines of distortion to come from Sanders supporters.

Actually the peaceful regime change was just cited, Bush decided to distort the record:

President George W. Bush, who followed Clinton, often referred to the Iraq Liberation Act and its findings to argue that the Clinton administration supported regime change in Iraq – and, further, that it believed Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction. The Act was cited as a basis of support in the Congressional Authorization for use of Military Force Against Iraq in October 2002.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act

But do go on, keep siding with the Bush administration and pretending we're the ones distorting the record.

[NCTraveler]

17. History isn't your thing. Got it.

It's clear you aren't familiar with the impact of the ILA and the immediate changes it brought about.

"Keep siding with Bush"...

Arguments like that are about all you have left.

Peaceful bombs. You have to be kidding. History. Read some.

Just a month after signing it we went on a four day bombing campaign. In your mind it wasn't related. That is simply ignoring reality or willful ignorance.

You ignorantly claim I'm siding with Bush while at the same time claiming they were bombs of peace. Notice I still don't pull out with elementary school debate tactics like you side with Bush. So sad that's the level of discourse: have at it. For the most part, mentally bankrupt debate tactics like the one you just put forward, is the reason I'm not posting much here these days.

[beam me up scottie]

23. Projecting again? Only one of us posted facts to back up our assertions and it's not you.

We've been over this countless times, you want so desperately to blame Bernie for the war but you can never back up your claims.

Fact: Bernie never voted for military action.

Fact: Bernie opposed the war.

Saying he wanted to bomb Iraq because he supported peaceful regime change is as bizzare as Bush's claim.

Your interpretation of what happened is unsupported by the facts, trying to rewrite history won't work here, we're not stupid.

[Armstead]

27. Cintion pulled the bombing stunt just as he was getting impeachedf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Iraq_(1998)

On October 31, 1998 Clinton signed into law H.R. 4655, the Iraq Liberation Act.[4] The new Act appropriated funds for Iraqi opposition groups in the hope of removing Saddam Hussein from power and replacing his regime with a democracy.

The Act also said that:Nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorize or otherwise speak to the use of United States Armed Forces (except as provided in section 4(a)(2)) in carrying out this Act.

Section 4(a)(2) states:The President is authorized to direct the drawdown of defense articles from the stocks of the Department of Defense, defense services of the Department of Defense, and military education and training for [Iraqi democratic opposition] organizations.

Some critics of the Clinton administration, including Republican members of Congress,[25] expressed concern over the timing of Operation Desert Fox.[26] The four-day bombing campaign occurred at the same time the U.S. House of Representatives was conducting the impeachment hearing of President Clinton. Clinton was impeached on December 19, the last day of the bombing campaign. A few months earlier, similar criticism was levelled during Operation Infinite Reach, wherein missile strikes were ordered against suspected terrorist bases in Sudan and Afghanistan, on August 20. The missile strikes began three days after Clinton was called to testify before a grand jury during the Lewinsky scandal and his subsequent nationally televised address later that evening in which Clinton admitted having an inappropriate relationship.

The Operation Infinite Reach attacks became known as "Monica's War" among TV news people, due to the timing. ABC-TV announced to all stations that there would be a special report following Lewinsky's testimony before Congress, then the special report was pre-empted by the report of the missile attacks. The combination of the timing of that attack and Operation Desert Fox led to accusations of a Wag the Dog situation.

[dogman]

6. Your last three words sum up your screed.

[Thinkingabout]

7. She seems to be running a campaign of running on issues important to progressive

Ideas rather than attacks on Sanders. That would be easy.

[Kall]

11. Issues important to progressives

like single-payer, universal Medicare being a Sanders proposal to take away health care from "millions and millions and millions of people." Well alright then.

[NCTraveler]

8. Because she is the party's nominee.

She will if she finds it to be necessary. At this point she just needs to keep talking about the issues that brought some democrats to his side. It's about the GE, not Sanders inconsistencies.

[Kall]

10. Log in your eye...

... speck of sand in the other person's, and all that. And most of these, like implying that Bernie is as culpable for Iraq as the Senator who voted to authorize it and amplified Bush's rhetoric about it because he didn't vote to cut off funding to US soldiers in a war zone who were there regardless of his wishes, are just beneath contempt.

It's kind of like when Mrs. Bosnian Sniper Fire attacks Bernie for (supposedly) being dishonest. People just laugh.

[marmar]

18. Kinda hard to attack someone's "inconsistencies" when you stand on all sides of all issues.

[DanTex]

19. She doesn't need to. She's way ahead, and can afford to stay above the fray.

Bernie's been going increasingly and dishonestly negative because he's losing and needs to make up ground.

I think it's good that she's keeping it issues-oriented.

[cherokeeprogressive]

20. I could give you a reason, but it would probably go over your head like a low-flying 747.

I doubt you'd even notice the shadow, much less the roar of the four huge GE turbo-fans.

Oh hell I'll do it anyway...

Because there aren't any worthy of attacking. Yeah, maybe that's it.

[Punkingal]

22. Short answer...

There are none.

[snowy owl]

24. D- from NRA is pro-gun?

You should be smarter than this. He comes from rural area where hunting permitted and enjoyed (not by me!). But it is his constituency. Legal safe hunting.

What do you think earned him the D-? Honestly evaluate your claim. He's voted against proposals that increase the use of guns beyond legal hunting and he's against guns beyond those needed legal hunting purposes. Why can't you understand it is not back and white? Everything Bernie does is thoughtful, reflective and smart. Try looking a little deeper.

[Armstead]

25. A lot to unpack there. But on the DOMA states rights....

"He voted against DOMA, not on civil rights grounds, but on states rights grounds, and states rights is exactly the argument the right wing uses to defend their right to discriminate, so when he voted against DOMA he was basically arguing against it on the grounds that Vermont should be free to respect gays and other states should be free to discriminate."

He was voting to stop a BAD Bill and was giving Democrats an "out" to also not vote for it based in the state's rights argument. Democrats could have followed his lead on that idea to stop a BAD BILL with that as an explanation -- but most chose to pander to the family values crowd and surrender to the GOP.

[salinsky]

26. Because she's winning ... nt

[notadmblnd]

28. Because then she'd have to use the words "he" and "they" and "them"

And Hillary is all about the "I" and the "me"

In other words the conversation would no longer be about her.

[Lucinda]

29. She does talk about his gun votes, and his tunnel vision, but as a rule

she spends her time talking about the problems she sees and her plans to fix them.
And the fact that the GOP must be stopped.