If you are worried about the GE

[RunInCircles]

What is the best chance to win the GE.
Bernie will not be able to deliver his base to Hillary in the GE.
Why because we support him for his Honesty, Opposition to TPP, and Opposition to interventionist wars.
This is just not transferable to Hillary and Obama does not stand on the right side of some of these issues.
Obama will clearly be able to deliver the AA vote to Bernie in the GE and this is the only segment of the democratic base Bernie is losing.
So if you want a democrat to win and you factor in Obama campaigning in the general election Bernie is such a stronger candidate their is no comparison.
Think about how to best energize and turn out the maximum number of voters for the Democratic ticket in the GE and Bernie becomes an obvious stronger safer bet than Hillary.
If you want to win support Bernie.

[Agschmid]

1. How about we just let the primary play out.

[RunInCircles]

4. Since we are still in the Primary season

Of course we will let the primary play out.
Imagine if you will if Obama was actively campaigning for Hillary.
Bernie would not be down by very much because his platform is attracting his voters.
Imagine if Obama was actively campaigning for Bernie.
Bernie would be sweeping every state with the possible exception of Florida.
If you haven't voted yet and you want to win you should switch to Bernie because you know Obama will be campaigning for the Winner of the democratic nomination and that becomes an unstoppable voting powerhouse.

[Agschmid]

7. I already voted and I voted for Hillary.

[RunInCircles]

24. I applaud you for supporting your candidate and voting democratic

Democracy is good and we may disagree but I support your right to your choice.

[Agschmid]

27. You as well.

[KPN]

104. Finally, a Hillary supporter who says

what Bernie supporters have been saying repeatedly for a couple of weeks now.

Remarkable the reaction when shoe is on the other foot.

[Agschmid]

106. I've been saying it the whole time.

[blueintelligentsia]

116. Hypocrisy on both sides....by a huge amount. n/t

[cantbeserious]

2. Absolutely Correct

eom

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

3. K&R I'm a progressive, and...

Hillary is 100% not a progressive. She is one of the most corrupt politicians in Washington. She uses Right Wing Conspiracy calls to stifle any valid criticism and if she is the nominee I will not be voting for her (though in GA it won't matter anyways); I will either write in Sanders or vote for the green party.

[Gwhittey]

31. It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'progressive' is.

nt

[sellitman]

51. Then you will be helping Trump.

You should try Feeling with your heart and thinking with your brain.

I support Bernie and hope I can in the General. If he isn't on the ballot at that point then a vote for anyone else but the Democratic candidate is a vote for Trump.

There is nothing more logical.

[BernieforPres2016]

63. The DNC is helping Trump

By continuing to move the Democratic Party further and further to the right and by stacking the deck for Hillary Clinton. They're giving Trump a chance to run to the left of Hillary on trade, campaign finance reform and healthcare, and I believe he will. That's what Bernie supporters are tolerating if they vote for Hillary in the general election.

By your "logic", the only thing the Democratic candidate has to do to get your vote is to stay a half step to the left of the Republican candidate in the general election. Or in the case of Trump, be anything other than a misogynistic pig. For many of us, that isn't nearly good enough. And pinning a general election defeat on the people who didn't vote for the terrible candidate, instead of on the terrible candidate and a party that has sold its soul isn't going to fly.

[emulatorloo]

55. If you truly believe that, you are out of touch with reality

Bernie and HRC are both democrats and neither of them are corrupt as the everyday average republican

[BernieforPres2016]

65. BS

How many Republicans have collected almost $10 million in a year giving speeches to corporate special interests? How many Republicans have had foreign governments, in many cases repressive foreign governments, shoveling millions into their "foundation" like Hillary Clinton has?

[HassleCat]

83. Suck it up, Buttercup!

We have been offered worse presidential candidates than Hillary Clinton. Her husband, for example. Do the right thing. Don't help elect President Trump. Thanks.

[marions ghost]

5. 'This is just not transferable to Hillary"

That IS the problem which is being underestimated at present.

[Yurovsky]

12. It could cost us the Senate as well...

the only thing that's remotely positive re:HRC's chances is that she may get to run against Trump - and even that isn't a sure W for her. If she were to run against Kasich she would get drubbed.

[marions ghost]

35. yeah congress--that's a factor too

I don't think it's clear at all that HRC can win over tRump. Polls are too tight on that.

What about the Apathetic Vote? I wonder how many people might register to vote for the first time (or vote again after being disenrolled) for the GE if Bernie is the nominee. There are a lot of people who just don't vote because they think there's nothing for them in it. They might come out of the woodwork (even more young voters inspired by the primary turnout). This primary has people looking at the Dem race well before the GE. Usually the apathetic pay no attention.

[asuhornets]

110. Kasich?

The guy that only won one state will drubbed Hillary? I don't think so..

[Merryland]

66. In my two-Democrat family

one of us is Bernie or Bust & the other is on the fence. But the fence-sitter may soon be toppled...

[marions ghost]

81. This might help

For Bernie skeptics:

http://robertreich.org/post/137454417985

Good Luck in your micro-caucus.

[Trust Buster]

6. I think Sanders has the same problem. Many Hillary supporters would not vote for a Socialist.

[Trust Buster]

13. Same could be said then of Sanders supporters voting for Hillary. See, you solved the issue.

[Trust Buster]

22. Sanders is a Socialist. He dislikes capitalism. Many Hillary voters will not support that.

This is Sanders' fault. He's an Independent who crashed the Democratic Party with his extreme ideology. This is not the same a Clinton vs. Obama. The differences here are stark IMO.

[ljm2002]

37. He dislikes unregulated, unfettered capitalism and the oligarchy...

...there, fixed that for ya.

[Trust Buster]

41. That's your opinion. Many Hillary voters do not share your opinion. That's all I'm saying.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

47. Sanders is not a Socialist

[SHRED]

71. Capitalism is not...

Going to work and earning a paycheck.
Starting a business and hiring people.

In case you are confused.

[Trust Buster]

75. Actually it is.

[SHRED]

76. Oh my

[SHRED]

82. So in reverse...

I sense you fear an end to these with Democratic Socialism?

How do you explain Western Europe then?

[Trust Buster]

89. I'm a pragmatist. The Republicans won't even consider Sanders' proposals.

The Republicans are set on the strategy of keeping the Legislative Branch in a state of paralysis. The Judicial Branch will now serve as the de facto Legislative Branch. In so far as that's concerned, Sanders just seems to be play acting to me. He does not understand the dynamics at foot within our government.

[SHRED]

90. nice dodge

[Trust Buster]

92. It's reality. He's be 75 on inaugaration day and 79 with none of his proposals passed.

That's if he can win. If he lose a 6-3 Right leaning Supreme Court will set us back 25 years. He's too his risk with zero chance of delivering on his promises.

[SHRED]

94. Another dodge

I asked how do you explain Western Europe.
They are Democratic Socialists and go to work and start businesses.

[Trust Buster]

95. That depends on their political makeup. We have a Party that has the ability to keep our

Legislative Branch mired in a state of paralysis.

[Trust Buster]

39. I'm not into alerting. I respectfully request that you self delete that one.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

42. Ishould have linked to his post, you would not say that if I did...i will self delete but you should

see it

i see the bigot has been removed anyway

[Trust Buster]

43. I only speak for myself. Religion and abortion are two issues I never debate on a political forum.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

48. a. he said he wanted to hunt down and kill Jews for killing Jesus

b. Bernie Sanders is NOT a Socialist, he is a Democratic Socialist and i know you know the difference

I dont want to argue with you, know why?

Because my copay's on my health insurance are so huge that I have to work two jobs to pay off a recent issue and I am too busy to argue with anybody with the two jobs and all.

Guess where I stand on universal healthcare..

[Trust Buster]

52. You lost me. I don't know who the "he" is that you refer to.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

59. you warned me you were going to alert on me if i didnt self delete a post

the post was my warning people the person was a bigot and he has now been removed

[Trust Buster]

64. No, I said I'm not one to alert and I never have alerted on anyone's post. I just didn't want to

see you get hit with a hide as a result of an alert from someone else. They're alerting on everything these days. I still don't know what person you are referring to but on this Easter Sunday I think we should just move on.

[RunInCircles]

11. I disagree

If Bernie was winning the AA community because he had Obama's support
he would be crushing this election.

[marions ghost]

16. It's a matter of education

--people are afraid of the word "socialist." They've been told how evil it is and they're afraid they might pay more taxes. But it just needs to be demystified. How great it would be to have investment in the people for a change, how good it is for business as well. How positive for the society as a whole. So do Democrats not support the gains of the FDR days? Eleanor pushed for universal health care. Even LBJ's Great Society was a so much better than THIS. I think everyone can see that what we have right now is NOT working.

When people understand Bernie's message--they LIKE it!

[Trust Buster]

20. Not as many people dislike capitalism as you think IMO.

[RunInCircles]

28. Trump is the ultimate example of Capitalism in reality

So if you are truly a capitalist the Trump is your man.

[Trust Buster]

38. We're not limited to Trump. Sanders is extreme in many voters minds. That's all I'm saying.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

60. Extreme because people are misinformed, brain washed.

You are either a capitalist (not likely if you are posting here, possible but not likely) or you work for one.

Most of us work for one, but are not one.

[CentralMass]

61. A growing number of people are tired of rubber stamping

a candidate that we don't really support every 4 years. If the choices are unpalatable in November then no choice is an option.

[noiretextatique]

113. Many voters are fools...what we have NOW is extreme

Income inequity, for example. I know people fear change, but we are in an extreme situation called oligarchy. We need an extreme response.

[marions ghost]

46. LOL we are NOT talking about the end of capitalism

--we just want to make it benefit the people--everyone, for a change. You and people like you understand that concept I'm sure. But there are obviously many who just lock onto the bad word "socialism" just as they castigate "Liberals." We used to call those people Republicans but now it's not so easy to categorize.

I'm sure people who have benefited from vulture capitalism are going to see Bernie's ideas as (gasp) socialism. Because they can sell that negative term and protect themselves (they think). The wrong thinking is that they will lose something. They will not lose if the country works for everybody. It's a failure to imagine something better. To be open to positive change.

Vulture capitalism is NOT working.

[Trust Buster]

49. I understand what you are saying but I still think many Hillary voters, including myself, are

uncomfortable with Sanders.

[timmymoff]

69. We know

It is uncomfortable to oppose wars for little to no reason, it is uncomfortable to stop supporting private prisons, it is uncomfortable to stop supporting the oligarchy so, it is uncomfortable to stop supporting the wealthy while acting as if you care for the poor. That's the big difference between Hillary supporters and Bernie supporters, one group doesn't support the status-quo , and the othe group is Hillary supporters.

[Trust Buster]

70. And I say one group is pragmatic while the other are idealists. Two different viewpoints.

[timmymoff]

72. Pragmatic = status quo

[Trust Buster]

79. After watching President Obama have his whole economic agenda obstructed for 7 years has made

it very apparent that the Legislative Branch is hopelessly paralyzed. Focusing on the Judicial Branch (Supreme Court) is the pragmatic approach IMO.

[timmymoff]

80. So a corporatist

who accepts huge money from pacs and lobbyist's is the person we need to pick the nominee in order to end citizen's united? Seems she does quite well BECAUSE of citizens united.

[marions ghost]

78. I guess so, if you believe Sanders is going to instantly

come and take your stuff, or your opportunities. That is so far from the truth as to be laughable.
There are no programs that Bernie outlines that should make any decent capitalist tremble in fear. (I put you in that "decent" category, not in the Extreme Greed category--otherwise you'd be in the RethugliCon camp).

Still I respect your POV because it's important to recognize what people's fears are, if one is ever to overcome them. I understand fear and uncertainly, trust me on that.

What do you do when something makes you uncomfortable-- you have to probe the truth of where that fear comes from. There may be a better place to be than you can even imagine at present. This huge fear of Bernie's platform is really uninformed. If you find out more, maybe you can understand that a Sanders presidency would work within the existing structure, just make it more humane and workable for all, and point toward a future that deals with the larger issues we face more efficiently-- climate change being an obvious big one. Currently the country is on a disaster course. Hillary only puts it a little closer to the iceberg. We all know this fear that you have--but there may be better ways to deal with it.

I don't know you Trust Buster --but if you are what your DU name suggests, please read the following (if you are not familiar with it already) and share with any uncomfortable friends:

http://robertreich.org/post/137454417985

https://berniesanders.com/issues/making-the-wealthy-pay-fair-share/

[Trust Buster]

87. Reich is a little too liberal for my taste mainly, like Sanders, he is a bit unrealistic.

The Republicans will not go along with Sanders' proposals. They've obstructed a far less ambitious economic agenda for the past 7 years. Sanders places the balance of the Supreme Court at risk for a generation. He has zero chance to implement his agenda and lean forward 25 years but he represents a high risk of having a Republican reshape the Supreme Court giving them a 6-3 advantage for a generation actually sending us backward 25 years. That concerns me greatly.

[marions ghost]

91. And Hillary is a better bullwark

against bad Supreme Court picks? I don't think so. They will stonewall any Dem appointee.

[Trust Buster]

93. I don't think they can. They used their "the next president should decide" nonsense.

I think we stand a good chance of winning back the Senate. Republicans will be out of cards to play. If we replace Scalia and Ginsburg and Thomas and/or Kennedy can't hang around for 4-8 years, then we can have a 6-3 Left leaning Court. At that point I'd lean forward with you al, you want.

[marions ghost]

96. We're on the same page with this.

so I don't see that it translates into voting for Hillary over Bernie.

[Trust Buster]

97. Obviously, I think Hillary stands a much better chance in the general and you don't.

[marions ghost]

98. OK then it's not about the Supreme Court

It's about Hillary's chances in the GE?

IMO it's a bit too early to call --re Hillary vs tRump, but looks like neck & neck to me.

Sanders seems to have the edge at this point, when it comes to beating tRump. For many reasons, which have been posted in this forum.

So this uncomfortable fear you speak of--seems to be more out of fear of tRump than fear of Sanders? I know that tRump fear runs deep. So is fear of Sanders more fear of tRump, or fear of ANY kind of change?

Just chatting on it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

53. I really don't believe significant numbers of HRC would not vote for Sanders ...

even if it's just as a vote against whomever the republicans put up.

[noiretextatique]

112. But they will vote for a conservative corporatist

How sad.

[NorthCarolina]

8. I'm not, Bernie is likely the ONLY chance for Democrats to win the GE.

eom

[Trust Buster]

14. Thanks for the Easter humor.....LOL

[NorthCarolina]

17. Humor, yea right

because Clinton does SO WELL with independents. Get real.

[Hortensis]

10. Almost all Bernie voters are ready to vote for Hillary as second choice.

All but a very few hostile ones (are they all here at DU, BTW?), probably half or more of whom will cross to the GOP.

Understandably, that burns a few butts, but that's the way it is. They're on their own.

(Btw, does this claim that Bernie can't influence his followers presage his own, expected arrival under the bus? It is hardly a flattering claim to make about him.)

[RunInCircles]

15. Reluctantly ready to hold their noses and vote for Hillary

Once again this is not the recipe to create a voting powerhouse and really sweep the country.

[Hortensis]

26. 80% of IA and NH Bernie voters were HAPPY with Hillary

as their second choice. I haven't followed up the states since, but their numbers are unlikely to fall much at worst. As for those, of the remaining percent, most will vote for her with or without much enthususiasm, some few will presumably vote for her reluctantly as their only choice.

And Bernie's hard-cores will vote for Cruz or The Donald. Or just leave the ballot blank or stay home. Every election has implacable partisans who can't rethink anything. There's nothing new about that.

[RunInCircles]

30. So sad so complacent

Imagine how much better more excited higher turnout you could be shooting for and you are arguing for half measures and low enthusiasm.

[Hortensis]

33. I have 2 acceptable candidates, a win-win situation.

Particularly since my favorite of the two will almost certainly win.

Only think how I would be feeling now if I had demonized one of them into a boogie to turn this positive and exciting election year into a very unnecessarily bitter and frightening one. Silly, and as you say sad for those who did, all they ever had to do was just educate themselves about her, but you cannot protect people from themselves.

[RunInCircles]

40. Fair enough I support your ability to choose your candidate

Vote for your preferred candidate and I support you for participating in this process.

[Hortensis]

44. Same to you.

[marions ghost]

50. "Bernie's hardcores will vote for Cruz or The Donald"

what are you smokin?

[timmymoff]

73. They call that

muddying the waters with nary a fact.

[marions ghost]

85. Yep

Ridiculous opinions don't need those pesky facts.

Where's that poll -- hardcore Bernie supporters likely to go for tRump or Cruzer...

[Art_from_Ark]

74. Really

I'm hardcore Bernie but would never vote for either of those jackasses.

[marions ghost]

88. I have a hard time imagining

what that particular psychological profile would be. Much more messed up than a hardcore Trumper voting for Bernie.

You can go more quickly from extreme evil to good, than from good to extreme evil.

(To put it in a nutshell)

[Karma13612]

18. you are wrong on this assumption that there are just a few

who will not be willing to vote for Hillary.

That group is not just on DU, and it's bigger than you think.

[RunInCircles]

23. Even this is not the best way to think of this

Bernie fires up a large section of the country that Obama can't reach.
Imagine Obama's core base and Bernie's core base which do not overlap very much coming together.
Wow such strength in numbers that the Democratic party hasn't seen in a very long time.

[Karma13612]

56. Oh yea-light bulb moment!!!! +100 eom

[Lizzie Poppet]

25. I think you're very, very wrong about that.

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of Bernie voters that I know in real life that have expressed that...and many, many more who have been very explicit about "not Hillary, ever."

[restorefreedom]

34. there are more than two options..its not dem or gop.

many people will find someone else on the ballot that they feel represents them. some,perhaps the young, will become disillusioned and stay home.

some might vote downticket and leave the top spot blank. some might write a name in. there are many ways people could react no matter which candidate is the nom.

the big issue for me is crossover. bernie appeals to indys and republicans and wins handily in many states dems will need in the ge.

hillary has trouble with the young and has very little appeal to indys. its a given that her ability to draw republicans is zero. she will struggle in swing and blue states in a ge.

lots of moving parts here. and i would hesitate to classify everyone committed to their values and looking for a candidate who represents them as "hostile." many are just sick of voting between two establishment picks they know are going to screw them almost equally. in a conventional election,voting for a gop candidate would be typically unthinkable. but since trump is actually to the left of clinton on trade, health care, the iraq war, and campaign finance reform, this election is really tossing all previous analysis out the window.

personally, i would be looking into popcorn shares!

[WhiteTara]

86. we saw how well that worked in 2000 nt

[restorefreedom]

99. its not naders fault gore lost

and we know it was a scotus selection anyway

[WhiteTara]

107. without him, it couldn't have been stolen. nt

[restorefreedom]

108. he had every right to run

and the argument that it was his fault is the argument people keep buying that keeps good alternative parties from gaining strength and viability.

[WhiteTara]

114. he was a registered republican

when he ran on the green ticket. He entered to be a spoiler and he was.

[restorefreedom]

115. thats why he has spent his entire career fighting corporate america.....

but fwiw, "spoiling" the oligarchic rule of the 1% owned two party system is long overdue anyway.

besides, scotus awarded it to w with an assist by harris. the fix was in.

[Broward]

21. Yes, all those concerned Hillary supporters that want to avoid a greater risk of Trump

should be supporting Bernie.

[BernieforPres2016]

68. No, they don't make sacrifices

They put up the corrupt corporatist, and if she doesn't win the election it is on Bernie supporters who wouldn't go along with it.

[MisterP]

100. they're never bombed or drafted

a lot of the voters are completely broke and voting for the jail and payday lender candidate, but that's just the usual political style (small wonder she deposed Zelaya and restored "vote for a cup of guaro and the party your family's voted for since the 1880s&quot

[Hoyt]

29. I believe Sanders will be a this generation's McGovern, Mondale, Carter (2nd), etc.

[RunInCircles]

36. I am looking at Obama's demographics and Bernie's demographics and seeing

possibilities for far greater numbers coming together than the Democratic party has seen in a long time.

[Karma13612]

54. Ohhhh! OK, now I am beginning to see where you

Are heading:

A "combine and conquer" strategy.
Yes, with Bernie's voter demographics, and the voters that Obama can inspire, we would have a huge voter turn out in the general.

Brilliant!

[pdsimdars]

45. Still people seem OBSESSED with the primary and Hillary winning it

Yes, she may win the primary but that is ONLY 30% of the population. She does HORRIBLY with the other 70% and Bernie does great.
People seem to somehow, wrongly equate the primary with the general. That OTHER 70% gets to vote in the General, which means Hillary will LIKELY LOSE, if she is the nominee (which I doubt)

[JoePhilly]

57. That's some serious nonsense.

[noiretextatique]

58. AA numbers will increase in CA and NY

Mark my words.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

77. Blackmail (whitemail actually) like this is sickening.

[RunInCircles]

84. Would you not support the candidate Obama is campaigning for?

[noiretextatique]

111. Obama is not a messiah to me

So yes, I, a black person, will vote for Sanders.

[Faux pas]

101. Kickin'

[basselope]

102. This election will be won by an "outsider"

[beaglelover]

103. Not worried. Hillary will be the nominee. She will win it fair and square and she will

win the GE in November to become the next POTUS. And Bernie and 99% of his supporters will vote for her.

[RunInCircles]

105. But can you imagine the enthusiasm generated by Bernie + Obama?

Wow the voters that Obama struggled with are already in Bernie's camp.
The size and number of Democratic voters with this combination is awe inspiring.

[asuhornets]

109. The way Bernie criticized Obama

you really think Obama is going to campaign for him..?