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MidwestTech

(170 posts)
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:17 PM Mar 2016

How many people are hell bent for Hillary only because she's a woman?

To start - I have no question about her ABILITY to be president.
I think she'd be a competent one.

This is about people only looking at her gender and voting with their... hearts, yes hearts.
As opposed to actually, seriously looking at her personal beliefs and policies she's supported over the years.

As far as the first female president, I would have preferred Elizabeth Warren.

There's a legislature in California who would be an AMAZING president. She is wicked smart and VERY progressive.
I forget her name, but there's a black congress woman who is on Stephanie miller's program I would prefer over Hillary.

My issue is with Hillary's politics, and who she is in bed with.
But I wonder how many people are just looking for the first female president.

I have a great deal of respect for MRS Clinton. The bullshit she and Bill have been put through is epic and they still manage to hold their dignity. That's not a bad trait in a president. I can understand how that could make fanatical followers
But is She really the best person for the job?

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How many people are hell bent for Hillary only because she's a woman? (Original Post) MidwestTech Mar 2016 OP
nice use of a sexualized comment on a woman. gonna tell us who bernie is "in bed with" too? nt msongs Mar 2016 #1
nice strawman but that's a common phrase MidwestTech Mar 2016 #6
So... "Politicians make strange bedfellows" is now a sexist comment because, women? cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #21
I did consider another term... MidwestTech Mar 2016 #25
Your term was fine. Everyone knows what it means... and it's not sexist in the least. nt cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #27
How many people are hell bent for Bernie only because he's not? 72DejaVu Mar 2016 #2
the sexism charge again? Seriously... Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #5
Why is the one question acceptable while the other is not? 72DejaVu Mar 2016 #10
The other is acceptable - but after 1000 repeats it's starting to look like a dead horse Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #16
If Gloria Steinem was correct, is the converse true? closeupready Mar 2016 #8
Too many - she is a follower, not a leader - and I don't trust whom she follows. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #3
Our mutual lack of a Y chromosome is meaningless to me. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #4
I'm holding out for a hermaphrodite presidential candidate. valerief Mar 2016 #7
Fewer than are viting against her because she is a woman bravenak Mar 2016 #9
Nope, all Sanders supporters are motivated by only the purest intentions. 72DejaVu Mar 2016 #14
Especially considering that most of us wanted Warren MidwestTech Mar 2016 #17
Ahhh. So pure and noble. bravenak Mar 2016 #33
The actual question is: why are so many people hell bent against her for that reason? DanTex Mar 2016 #11
The sexism charge: now twice in one thread! Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #19
Hillary Clinton is the most qualified candidate in the field Gothmog Mar 2016 #12
Wrong. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #24
...to fight for the status quo. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #48
How many are hell bent on Sanders because he's unrealistically proposing trillions of dollars Trust Buster Mar 2016 #13
Go back to your corner Rand Paul pinebox Mar 2016 #30
Except for the fact that it happens to be the truth. I think more people are hell bent for Sanders Trust Buster Mar 2016 #34
I agree...free in-state tuituion was there when I went to college..it aint rainbows and unicorns angstlessk Mar 2016 #41
You call it an "extra few dollars" ? Really ? You think it's that easy ? Trust Buster Mar 2016 #43
Yes I do n/t angstlessk Mar 2016 #47
I am sick and tired! PyaarRevolution Mar 2016 #50
Where are the votes in Congress going to come from ? Where is the money going to come from ? Trust Buster Mar 2016 #51
I'm with you Rebkeh Mar 2016 #15
I suspect the fact that LibDemAlways Mar 2016 #18
Exactly! I can think of half a dozen better women for the job off the top of my head MidwestTech Mar 2016 #20
Exactly! I can think of half a dozen men better for the job than Bernie off the top of my head DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #28
Not me but they are free to do so. MuseRider Mar 2016 #22
Thanks Muse. I think quantifying it as a decision "of the heart" is a sly way of denigrating the bettyellen Mar 2016 #29
I agree. MuseRider Mar 2016 #31
My first option... MidwestTech Mar 2016 #36
I don't think wanting a female is about heart than it is a desire to see a cultural change. bettyellen Mar 2016 #23
I said prefer... Honestly Hillary probably has the best short at becoming the first female president MidwestTech Mar 2016 #32
ZERO Democrats. She is extremely well qualified as a Secretary of State and US Senator pnwmom Mar 2016 #26
In my experience women are LESS likely Codeine Mar 2016 #39
And as a smart white dude I'm sure you're aware pnwmom Mar 2016 #45
Precisely. nt Codeine Mar 2016 #46
Good points, pnwmom. The low-level misogyny is everywhere. KitSileya Mar 2016 #59
That and they're against Trump. I don't know anyone who's voting for Hillary because of her ideas ThePhilosopher04 Mar 2016 #35
I don't either. Not even one person. 840high Mar 2016 #62
She's the best of the two available choices Codeine Mar 2016 #37
I am happy with Kamala Harris... She's more qualified than Bernie too... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #40
This is true. Codeine Mar 2016 #42
She cleared the field very quickly... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #44
I love the fact the person I prefer is a woman. Nt NCTraveler Mar 2016 #38
How many people are hell bent for Bernie only because Hillary's a woman? Tarc Mar 2016 #49
Simple question but few answers. Talking semantics instead. snowy owl Mar 2016 #52
Hillary is certainly more qualified than anyone else running for president. hrmjustin Mar 2016 #53
evidently more of a woman than the women whose murders she's quite responsible for MisterP Mar 2016 #54
I think a lot of people feel like finally there's someone who speaks to them. KitSileya Mar 2016 #55
Not me. Zira Mar 2016 #56
even birds don't seem to like her Cobalt Violet Mar 2016 #57
She is easily the best candidate of either sex. NT. anamnua Mar 2016 #58
offset by people hell bent for Bernie only because he's not Hillary. Interesting, no? n/t Sheepshank Mar 2016 #60
Yes, she is really the best person for the job. JoePhilly Mar 2016 #61
 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
16. The other is acceptable - but after 1000 repeats it's starting to look like a dead horse
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:25 PM
Mar 2016

and you look like beating it. And considering that all 1000 times the answer was: this is about principles, positions, records, NOT about overies, the question begs to be asked what you hope to gain from asking it YET again.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
3. Too many - she is a follower, not a leader - and I don't trust whom she follows.
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:19 PM
Mar 2016

As for being competent: her "experience" is being a one-trick pony: war war war. I think we have had enough of that sh*t.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
4. Our mutual lack of a Y chromosome is meaningless to me.
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:19 PM
Mar 2016

I'll vote for the best candidate for the job...period. That ain't Hillary.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
7. I'm holding out for a hermaphrodite presidential candidate.
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:20 PM
Mar 2016

Who doesn't want war. Who does want single payer healthcare. Who does want free public college education. Who wants to overturn Citizens United.

These things are all important, but only the sex parts really matter. Cuz America.

72DejaVu

(1,545 posts)
14. Nope, all Sanders supporters are motivated by only the purest intentions.
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:24 PM
Mar 2016

I think it's something about the Felling The Bern thing, it boils off all impurities.

MidwestTech

(170 posts)
17. Especially considering that most of us wanted Warren
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:26 PM
Mar 2016

Bernie had to be drafted in when Warren explicitly said NO WAY IN HELL.
I think Bernie is great but he was my second choice.
Granted even Hillary would be 10x better than anything the GoP has

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
19. The sexism charge: now twice in one thread!
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:28 PM
Mar 2016

May I say that you appear to be performing necromancy on an ungulate by means of a blunt object?

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
13. How many are hell bent on Sanders because he's unrealistically proposing trillions of dollars
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:24 PM
Mar 2016

in new entitlements that other will be responsible for paying ?

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
34. Except for the fact that it happens to be the truth. I think more people are hell bent for Sanders
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:42 PM
Mar 2016

because of his offering free college and free healthcare than are hell bent for Hillary because she's a woman.

angstlessk

(11,862 posts)
41. I agree...free in-state tuituion was there when I went to college..it aint rainbows and unicorns
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:00 PM
Mar 2016

It actually happened! And free health care? Happens in Canada jusr over our northern boarder,,,and they have FEWER homeless than we do...so an extra few dollars in taxes are NOT going to devistate you, the opposite is true..it can open opportunities and save you the $3,000 in deductibles+20% of everything...hey a few duckets in taxes will not send me to bankruptcy court!

PyaarRevolution

(814 posts)
50. I am sick and tired!
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:18 PM
Mar 2016

Of this selfish attitude towards services like "Tuition free college" and "Medicare for all" that the Reagan Revolution has inculcated. We are better than that.
Reagan sent us backwards in so many ways, starting the pathway towards cutting programs like NASA, in-state tuition, etc.

Rebkeh

(2,450 posts)
15. I'm with you
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:25 PM
Mar 2016

I'll go one further and say she's not right for POTUS. Period. I'm sorry she's the first woman to be a potential nominee, as a woman myself, as a feminist, I would not be proud. I'd be disappointed, embarrassed even. I want the first one to be right, so the women that come up later don't have to fight against a negative legacy. It's gonna be hard enough as it is. I honestly believe she'll make it worse.

If it happens, her as the first, I hope I'm wrong. I really, really do.

LibDemAlways

(15,139 posts)
18. I suspect the fact that
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:27 PM
Mar 2016

she's a woman is an important factor among her supporters. I sense it is significant among many of her supporters here on DU.

I'm basing my vote in my state's upcoming primary, however, solely on the basis of stands on the issues. On that score, I have to vote for Bernie. As much as I would love to see a woman take the oath of office, it has to be a candidate whose views I support, and, unfortunately, that's not Hillary.

MidwestTech

(170 posts)
20. Exactly! I can think of half a dozen better women for the job off the top of my head
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:29 PM
Mar 2016

All proven liberal / progressive legislatures who are tough as nails but still obviously care about people!

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
28. Exactly! I can think of half a dozen men better for the job than Bernie off the top of my head
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:34 PM
Mar 2016

All proven liberal / progressive legislatures who are tough as nails but still obviously care about people!

MuseRider

(34,111 posts)
22. Not me but they are free to do so.
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:31 PM
Mar 2016

This is a BIG deal for women. I don't support her but if my sisters support her for only that reason I think it is fine. We are barely represented in most places of control in this country. This would be huge for us as long as she does not fuck it up. Then it will be huge in another way.

It is their heart to vote for her because she is a woman and they should not be hassled about that given the circumstances women have been facing for fucking ever all over this planet. JMO

I wish you were all with me and Bernie but you go on and vote your heart, you have every right to desire this change.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
29. Thanks Muse. I think quantifying it as a decision "of the heart" is a sly way of denigrating the
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:34 PM
Mar 2016

thought process of her supporters. Too similar to tropes about women being too emotional, or not to be trusted because of they differences from men. I know the OP probably didn't mean to put women down, but it reads like they are.

MuseRider

(34,111 posts)
31. I agree.
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:38 PM
Mar 2016

There are a lot of people who say things like that but have never come up against being slandered by clever uses of words. Women have been forever. Many others of minority have been. I don't usually get into that unless I know someone well enough to know that is what they are doing. You kindly pointed it out and that was terrific.

It is good to see you and you are always good to point things out. I am tired of yelling but not tired of yellen. Oh my, I was just doing laundry and watching Broadway silly stuff and that just came out and I am leaving it with a because I feel silly today.

MidwestTech

(170 posts)
36. My first option...
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:45 PM
Mar 2016

well I'll be blunt. People accuse men of thinking with their dicks.
My concern is the same with women.
I was trying to be more polite, but it;'s the same thing.
I don't see it as sexist because it's a valid argument against men, why isn't it about women?

That said I'm seeing some wonderful comments as to WHY Hillary is so important.
Reason I admit I hadn't considered.
I'm an engineer, I look at the numbers, facts and data. honestly gender doesn't factor into it for me.

Hillary is a powerful personality. Strong, tough, intelligent as fuck, and determined.
I LIKE THOSE TRAITS!

I don't like that she's so close to wall street, the exact people who killed the world economy!

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
23. I don't think wanting a female is about heart than it is a desire to see a cultural change.
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:31 PM
Mar 2016

Heart is as odd to me as calling a female president a "novelty" which I have also heard. Both ideas are sort of wrong headed.
I don't know why anyone would trust Warren more, unless you are truly a single issue voter not bothered by her long (and heartless- to use your term) support of Republicans. Scratching my head at discussing such unknown women that you can;t remember they names? That seems like a super long shot- no?

MidwestTech

(170 posts)
32. I said prefer... Honestly Hillary probably has the best short at becoming the first female president
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:40 PM
Mar 2016

I have a terrible memory and I don't remember names well.
I just don't know if the country, or the planet, can handle another corporate owned US president.
There is a time and a place for Milquetoast and this isn't it.
The Clintons do well when it's a middling economy with middling problems and things are stable... but we're at a crisis point.
We literally can't afford more war, we can't afford more corporate influence, we can't afford "trade deals", we're murdering our children with poison water to save a few cents!

If I thought MRS Clinton was going to stop all that, i'd be first in line to vote for her. And I will if she's the GE candidate.
But I'm just worried that she'll be too conservative.

hey if I'm wrong I will be delighted. If I'm right...

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
26. ZERO Democrats. She is extremely well qualified as a Secretary of State and US Senator
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:33 PM
Mar 2016

from a large, diverse state.

But it will be a wonderful thing to have the first woman President. No doubt about that.

But as to the rest of your post -- accusing women of voting with their hearts is another way of saying they're voting with their emotions. A typical example of sexism. So is your saying you respect her as MRS. Clinton, in caps.

She is Secretary Clinton. But you want to pretend those years as Head of the State Department never happened, while also telling us that some CA legislator whose name you cannot even recall would make a better President.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
39. In my experience women are LESS likely
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:56 PM
Mar 2016

to vote with their hearts, because they're more likely to be directly impacted by the decisions of those they elect. As a white dude I've got a layer of insulation between myself and the system; women do not.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
45. And as a smart white dude I'm sure you're aware
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:04 PM
Mar 2016

that the same thing is true for minority voters. They can't afford to be passionate about any candidate. They are skeptical about everything -- and they should be.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
59. Good points, pnwmom. The low-level misogyny is everywhere.
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:55 PM
Mar 2016

I mean, if Hillary Clinton was talking about men the way Donald Trump is talking about and to women? They'd kill her, and I'm not talking euphemistically. He's called women pigs and dogs, he's said "you've got to treat 'em like shit", he denigrated Heidi Cruz, and so on. That's overt, but there's plenty not-so-overt on our side as well. It is in concern-trolling by political analysts that she isn't doing enough for white men. It's in people not using her title, like you pointed out. It's in people giving her flack for supporting something her opponent actually voted for, but cutting him slack for it.

Yeah, the way the Left are treating Hillary has ramifications. She has a ton of privilege, she's white, cis, straight, has a college education - yet she is being treated like she eats newborn babies for breakfast, and loves to castrate men to work up an appetite. Don't they care that all women see that? Don't they care that this will be a factor in the con column for any women assessing whether they want to run for the Presidency? Hardly any of us have a spotless record, and we know it. And we see how they threat the first serious woman candidate, and we remember it. It has a chilling effect on democracy.

 

ThePhilosopher04

(1,732 posts)
35. That and they're against Trump. I don't know anyone who's voting for Hillary because of her ideas
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:43 PM
Mar 2016

For that matter, I don't personally know anyone who's voting for Hillary, period. Not one person.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
37. She's the best of the two available choices
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 05:54 PM
Mar 2016

in my opinion, which is the only opinion that holds sway when I vote. I actually greatly prefer Bernie's politics on the handful of issues on which they diverge, but nothing about Sanders strikes me as competent executive material. I don't believe he is smart enough, agile enough, and savvy enough for that particular job.

If he wants to move to California and be my Senator he's got my vote, though!

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
42. This is true.
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:01 PM
Mar 2016

I'd love to see her give the convention keynote this year. She's definitely going to be a Big Deal.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
49. How many people are hell bent for Bernie only because Hillary's a woman?
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:16 PM
Mar 2016

THAT is the pertinent question of the hour.

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
52. Simple question but few answers. Talking semantics instead.
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:27 PM
Mar 2016

So typical. I have an older friend. She came right out and said "it's time we had a woman." I told her than answer made my stomach hurt and we stopped talking politics.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
55. I think a lot of people feel like finally there's someone who speaks to them.
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:42 PM
Mar 2016

In the NYTimes article on March 17 about Hillary's "problems" with white men, there are several quotes from representatives of said white men, all saying that they don't feel like she is speaking to them.

“She’s talking to minorities now, not really to white people, and that’s a mistake,” said Dennis Bertko, 66, a construction project manager in Youngstown, Ohio.

“Her most serious relationship problem is with white men, on a policy issue front but also stylistically, and she is at real risk for running worse than the average Democrat with white males,” said Peter Hart, a veteran Democratic pollster.

“I really wonder if she wants people like me in the Democratic Party.”


(For those who will attack this, for white men, don't assume it means all white men. God, that this disclaimer is even needed.) All of them are white men who cannot handle that Hillary Clinton, as the only candidate (ever?!), does not use white men as the template for the average voter. She doesn't center them in her speeches, she doesn't think they're the end-all and be-all of politics, and they are having huge problems with it. Women, black people other minorities, we're used to taking a world that holds white men as 'normal' and relating to it. White men aren't, and they aren't reacting very well to it.

Conversely, people who aren't white men are responding to her message in greater numbers. It's refreshing. To me, it's a ceasing of white noise, like when you turn of an electric appliance and finally get silence. To not always have to overcome that barrier is great - the world is built with white men as the standard unit of measurement, and it's finally good to have something that fits me.
 

Zira

(1,054 posts)
56. Not me.
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 06:44 PM
Mar 2016

And I am a woman and a feminist.

I discovered today that Hillary's progressive stance on womens rights started right after she got support from planned parenthood in this election.

Let me go find the link.

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/01/

"Which is what makes it so notable that Hillary Clinton — who, despite a strong record of supporting reproductive rights, has not always spoken about them with righteous vigor (her 2005 discussion of abortion as a “sad, tragic choice for many” enraged many activists) — has decided to publicly do battle against Hyde. Even more important, she is explaining her stance in terms that offer a crucial and long-awaited corrective to the course of the abortion debate in America.

In the days after being formally endorsed by both Planned Parenthood and NARAL last week, Clinton brought up Hyde at a rally, describing it as a law that “ it harder for low-income women to exercise their full rights.” A few days later, when asked by Alicia Menendez at the Iowa Brown & Black Presidential Forum whether she would support a congressional effort to repeal Hyde, she answered “yes” unequivocally and described reproductive rights as “a fundamental human right.”


She started fighting this Hyde law decades after it passed - just now... since she's been campaigning for women's votes.

"But as too few people seemed to have noticed, Hillary Clinton has spent the past ten days campaigning vocally and without apology against the Hyde Amendment. Hyde, a legislative rider first passed in 1976 and added to appropriations bills every year since, prohibits the use of federal funds to pay for abortion, which means that the low-income women, many of them women of color, who rely on Medicaid for health insurance cannot use their insurance to terminate their pregnancies except in cases of rape, incest, or their life being in danger.

It is a discriminatory law that perpetuates both economic and racial inequality. And the notion of repealing it has remained a third rail in American politics until about five minutes ago … or, more precisely, until this summer, when California representative Barbara Lee introduced the EACH Woman Act, which would effectively repeal Hyde. So far, the bill has 109 co-sponsors but a vanishingly small chance of going anywhere"



----------
how nice of her to finally decided to lead in womens reproductive health. However, during campaign season, I believe nothing from someone who just found liberal democratic values in November 2015. And, I mean her saying she stands for everything Bernie does - only Bernie has consistent support for that agenda, and Hillary goes the opposite direction when you google her history on the liberal causes.

My favorite - being backed by the biggest banksters and hedge funds on wall street in her super pack and telling her supporters at rallies that she's going to reign in wall street. Her supporter... cheered instead of Chanting JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and so many more of her superpac. As, it stands, I don't know who the heck these people are who cheered her in the face of such clear dishonesty. You don't take money from the people you say you are going to stop to the point that said people are funding your whole campaign.

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