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DanTex

(20,709 posts)
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:25 AM Mar 2016

No, there's not a "civil war" in the Democratic party.

The "civil war" is being waged by a small number of internet activists, who have been perennially unsatisfied with the Democratic Party since the beginning of time. They see their beloved Bernie doing well, and believe that this is an indication that a large segment of the party agrees with their Hillary-hating ideology.

But this is not true. Not even close. Bernie does have very broad support, almost as broad as Hillary. But the vast majority of Bernie supporters aren't supporting him in the antagonistic anti-Hillary way that you see on lefty blogs, they're regular progressives who like his message: there's too much inequality, banks are too powerful, etc. And, as poll after poll has shown, they have a very high opinion of both Hillary and Bernie. Which makes sense, since they have similar progressive platforms and voted the same way 93% of the time in the Senate.

Is the far left going to try to throw the election to the GOP with "Bernie or Bust"? Of course. They do this every time. But unless Bernie actually tries to run third party, which he's not going to do, they're not going to have much impact. The only time that the far left has succeeded in electing a Republican is in 2000, and that's because Nader had a very high profile. But the Democratic party firmly rejected him after that, and he's been a minor fringe figure ever since.

We see, here and elsewhere on the internet, predictions from the far left that progressives have "had enough" and this time they're going to bolt. Now that Bernie's chances to win the election are approaching nil, their efforts have been diverted from trying to win the primary to trying to damage Hillary in the General.

When you read this junk, keep in mind that the people saying it have been wrong about everything so far this cycle. They were wrong about the poll trutherism. They were wrong when they said Cornel West was going to cure AA voters of their Stockholm Syndrome. They were wrong that once the debates started Bernie would roll over her. They were wrong about Iowa, and they were wrong about Nevada.

And when Bernie drops out and endorses Hillary, the Democratic party will be unified behind her, and they will have been wrong yet again.

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No, there's not a "civil war" in the Democratic party. (Original Post) DanTex Mar 2016 OP
You're wrong. Failure to address it will further mmonk Mar 2016 #1
Failure to address what? JaneyVee Mar 2016 #3
Of course they should! astrophuss42 Mar 2016 #6
The Democratic Party is shrinking in membership. mmonk Mar 2016 #10
No SheenaR Mar 2016 #12
That is exactly right. The Democratic damage is more like an earthquake CoffeeCat Mar 2016 #16
Meet the 12 shameful democrats in North Carolina who voted FOR the anti-LGBT law kgnu_fan Mar 2016 #21
"Democrats In Disarray" 72DejaVu Mar 2016 #2
There's a"civil war" every time there's a primary. sufrommich Mar 2016 #4
Keep on whistling past the graveyard ThePhilosopher04 Mar 2016 #5
My thoughts too. eom Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #18
This time is different All in it together Mar 2016 #7
The problem is not the Democratic party voters (with or without Bernie supporters). Dawgs Mar 2016 #8
No civil war in the Democratic Party. BUT, there is in the GOP hate party - Yay! Iliyah Mar 2016 #9
Both Parties have their own serious issues SheenaR Mar 2016 #14
Correct! "Democratic Underground" is NOT the "Democratic Party" ... NurseJackie Mar 2016 #11
Get out of the house more SheenaR Mar 2016 #13
70-80% of Bernie voters llke Hillary just fine. Hortensis Mar 2016 #15
Head meets sand. Scuba Mar 2016 #17
Yep. DU is not representative of the Dem party as a whole. n/t Lucinda Mar 2016 #19
"Far left", "lefty blogs". Red bait much? Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #20
Don't sweat Dan... Chan790 Mar 2016 #23
Actually I live in NYC now and most of my friends are liberal Dems. None of the Bernie fans DanTex Mar 2016 #29
To quote the antropomorphic asshole cat I just punched in the face in Skyrim... Chan790 Mar 2016 #22
The "revolution" coincides with who HRC is. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2016 #24
That is how I see things as well. nt JEB Mar 2016 #25
Wanna bet? They just don't want the Democratic Party to... highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #26
A good definition of the far-left fringe is people who use the word "Corporatacrats." DanTex Mar 2016 #27
Proud of the distinction! highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #30
And this cohort has been wrong about ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #28
 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
3. Failure to address what?
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:30 AM
Mar 2016

Her and Bernie agree on nearly everything, just differ in methods. Progressives are willing to help elect Trump unless she panders to their every desire?

Should Hillary supporters opt out of voting for Bernie unless he changes his stances on some things?

astrophuss42

(290 posts)
6. Of course they should!
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:36 AM
Mar 2016

If he was further ahead I'm sure there would be a PUMA v 2.0 abrewin. But either way you're free! To vote however!

mmonk

(52,589 posts)
10. The Democratic Party is shrinking in membership.
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:47 AM
Mar 2016

That is how it is manifesting itself. Therefore, polls of remaining Democrats may be more homogeneous, the independent or unaffiliated ranks are growing larger. It's why when independent voters are allowed to participate in open primary states, Bernie wins.

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
12. No
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:55 AM
Mar 2016

"She" (not her) and Bernie do not agree on everything.

Where they differ is at the core of this schism within the party.

Anytime Clinton is backed up on a point she says, "Well the Senator and I agree on many points". They do. The ones they don't are strikingly different.

Take single payer. Yesterday you laughed it off when someone suggested her "No we can't" attitude was ok because "Republicans control 2/3". After November they will not. We will have the Senate back and we will have made gains in the House. What will her excuse for not trying be then. Yeah, let's continue to leave 29 million uninsured and many like me unable to even afford the health care i DO have.

On basic social and economic issues, they are wolds apart.

And for those of us fed up with the way those issues are handled currently and potentially beyond, we are the people moving away.

Both Parties are in crisis. Ours is just less publicized.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
16. That is exactly right. The Democratic damage is more like an earthquake
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:21 AM
Mar 2016

I can't believe the OP. It's like a sparkly little unicorn that doesn't exist.

I suppose the poster is trying to usher in some sort of kumbaya moment. However, to completely miss what is happening in our party is a bit bizarre.

The damage happening on the Republican side is like a volcano--because of Trump. Their mess is visible. The damage is very apparent and it's being played out very publicly via the media.

The damage happening on the Democratic side is like an earthquake. Major, major tectonic shifts are happening underfoot. These shifts are just as real and as deep as the damage on the Republican side, but for now--all people see is the surface, the Sanders and Clinton factions vying for the nomination.

33 percent of Bernie supporters have stated that they won't vote for Clinton. That is jarring. To fail to understand the impactful shifts happening is an open invitation to be completely gobsmacked when all of this hits. This is not like any other election year in the Democratic party. This is not about Bernie and Hillary. This is about an uprising of people who are finally done with establishment politics and a horrendously corrupt system. This goes beyond candidates. It's real. It's about principals that go beyond Bernie. If Bernie doesn't win, the fight doesn't go away. It continues.

Furthermore, all of the voting irregularities/cheating/shenannigans happening from state to state are taking a toll on Democrats. People are very angry. This is turning many off. I saw this in my own state of Iowa. You don't think people in Mass, Arizona, Iowa and other states weren't completely repelled by what happened in their own backyard? Wow. I tell you what---I wish all of you could have witnessed what happened at the Polk County Convention in Iowa a couple of weeks ago. There was an open mic and throughout the entire day (which was 11 hours, by the way) people used that mic to decry the Clinton camp and express outrage, sadness and just about every other emotion. I can't even repeat some of the things that were said.

Anyone who tries to minimize this is either in denial or is completely missing the reality.

The problem is--the shifts are major, but they are subterranean. The true damage won't be apparent until that tension is fully released, just like with an earthquake. When that happens, I predict a 9.0 on the political Richter scale. Only then will the fallout be visible and undeniable. It will be worse than anything happening in the Republican party.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
4. There's a"civil war" every time there's a primary.
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:32 AM
Mar 2016

This time is no different regardless of the melodrama.

All in it together

(275 posts)
7. This time is different
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:44 AM
Mar 2016

This time we have a real choice in the candidates. Unfortunately a lot of Dems haven't noticed how much we need the change that Bernie represents. We see that someone can do it without the help of billionaires and multinational corporations, but with our support. Even though the media has been against him from the start, he would hurt their bottom line, Bernie is getting the word out. That is really empowering for us "little people". Sure some are happy or content with the status quo "but the times they are a changing".

 

Dawgs

(14,755 posts)
8. The problem is not the Democratic party voters (with or without Bernie supporters).
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:46 AM
Mar 2016

It's Hillary's problem with everyone else.

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
14. Both Parties have their own serious issues
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:01 AM
Mar 2016

GOP is currently winning that area right now, but come Election Day many here will wonder what happened up and down ballot. A sizable chunk (yes currently the minority) of the Party is not happy. That chunk is needed and cannot be ignored any longer.

How anyone can say our Party is in good shape when you see how DWS and other Dem leaders wield their authority so arbitrarily and always toward where the money is, is beyond me

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
11. Correct! "Democratic Underground" is NOT the "Democratic Party" ...
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:55 AM
Mar 2016

... the only "war" that I can see exists here. None of the Bernie supporters I know in real life behave the same way I've witnessed some behaving here.

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
13. Get out of the house more
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:57 AM
Mar 2016

Must be nice to have your health care, your job, etc.

Those in the Party who do not or cant afford their healthcare, have lost their jobs due to our positions on trade, those who can't afford college or are buried in debt.

These arent DU issues. Our Party is ignoring them. It will come back to bite the Party in the ass.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
15. 70-80% of Bernie voters llke Hillary just fine.
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:01 AM
Mar 2016

Only a would-be little insurgency could imagine they constitute a civil war -- if they work hard at self delusion, and they do. Incredibly hard.

Proud member of a big, unified progressive movement.



 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
23. Don't sweat Dan...
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:59 AM
Mar 2016

he thinks the rest of America and the Democratic party in it, including the power-bases of the party on the West Coast and Northeast, politically looks like purple-red Texas.

He doesn't get that we're fleeing them faster than they're making Texas bluer.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
29. Actually I live in NYC now and most of my friends are liberal Dems. None of the Bernie fans
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 01:27 PM
Mar 2016

I know are deranged Hillary-haters like you see online.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
22. To quote the antropomorphic asshole cat I just punched in the face in Skyrim...
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 11:55 AM
Mar 2016
"you do not see it because you are losing so badly." -Jzargo


Dan, the only people who would deny that there is an internicene fight in the Democratic party are Clintonites so out of touch with reality that they don't even see that they're losing that fight. The policies of the future Democratic party are ours, not yours or Hillary's. Her supporters, much like the voting base of the GOP, will be dying off over the coming decade. We have the youth, we're growing in power...and you're just waning.

Clinton supporters have the numbers today to probably wrap up the nomination...but the trend isn't going away from them...it's fleeing so fast that their candidate may be beyond "not re-electable" as soon as the midterms in 2018.

Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
24. The "revolution" coincides with who HRC is.
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 12:05 PM
Mar 2016

She is the poster girl for everything Sanders and his supporters are determined to change. That's both in terms of certain policies and the way she does things, which both come from the same root...

It's the corruption, stupid. (Paraphrasing an election meme from the Clinton years.)

Even if she wins the nomination, and even if she wins the election, there is no chance that the Repubs are going to forego a full court press on her actionable issues which are abundant. And I think we can bet safely that we haven't seen them all yet. There will be investigating committees galore, just for starters.

There will be full obstruction from minute one. And I don't see any chance of her completing even one term without being forced out of office.

She is a walking time bomb of corruption. Berners are not going to vote for that, and even if they did it wouldn't last for long. So enjoy your delusional view of the landscape while it lasts. 'Cuz those chickens are looking for home right now.

You're asking for it (all of the above), just remember that if you get it.

(A tip off in my opinion: If we see Sanders at some point agreeing to be her VP, it will mean only one thing -- that he has definite reason to know that she is going to be taking a walk real soon. Otherwise I'm very sure he won't do it.)

 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
26. Wanna bet? They just don't want the Democratic Party to...
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 01:03 PM
Mar 2016

Become the uncaring, stick your head in the sand party. And there are many, many, many Americans there with them.

Thank goodness there's some caring life somewhere and we haven't all become Corporatacrats.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
28. And this cohort has been wrong about ...
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 01:08 PM
Mar 2016

President Obama's cuts to SS, President Obama's bombing of Syria over the gassing of Syrians, about the efficacy of going over the fiscal cliff, before that.

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