2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumNo, there's not a "civil war" in the Democratic party.
The "civil war" is being waged by a small number of internet activists, who have been perennially unsatisfied with the Democratic Party since the beginning of time. They see their beloved Bernie doing well, and believe that this is an indication that a large segment of the party agrees with their Hillary-hating ideology.
But this is not true. Not even close. Bernie does have very broad support, almost as broad as Hillary. But the vast majority of Bernie supporters aren't supporting him in the antagonistic anti-Hillary way that you see on lefty blogs, they're regular progressives who like his message: there's too much inequality, banks are too powerful, etc. And, as poll after poll has shown, they have a very high opinion of both Hillary and Bernie. Which makes sense, since they have similar progressive platforms and voted the same way 93% of the time in the Senate.
Is the far left going to try to throw the election to the GOP with "Bernie or Bust"? Of course. They do this every time. But unless Bernie actually tries to run third party, which he's not going to do, they're not going to have much impact. The only time that the far left has succeeded in electing a Republican is in 2000, and that's because Nader had a very high profile. But the Democratic party firmly rejected him after that, and he's been a minor fringe figure ever since.
We see, here and elsewhere on the internet, predictions from the far left that progressives have "had enough" and this time they're going to bolt. Now that Bernie's chances to win the election are approaching nil, their efforts have been diverted from trying to win the primary to trying to damage Hillary in the General.
When you read this junk, keep in mind that the people saying it have been wrong about everything so far this cycle. They were wrong about the poll trutherism. They were wrong when they said Cornel West was going to cure AA voters of their Stockholm Syndrome. They were wrong that once the debates started Bernie would roll over her. They were wrong about Iowa, and they were wrong about Nevada.
And when Bernie drops out and endorses Hillary, the Democratic party will be unified behind her, and they will have been wrong yet again.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)splinter the party.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Her and Bernie agree on nearly everything, just differ in methods. Progressives are willing to help elect Trump unless she panders to their every desire?
Should Hillary supporters opt out of voting for Bernie unless he changes his stances on some things?
astrophuss42
(290 posts)If he was further ahead I'm sure there would be a PUMA v 2.0 abrewin. But either way you're free! To vote however!
mmonk
(52,589 posts)That is how it is manifesting itself. Therefore, polls of remaining Democrats may be more homogeneous, the independent or unaffiliated ranks are growing larger. It's why when independent voters are allowed to participate in open primary states, Bernie wins.
"She" (not her) and Bernie do not agree on everything.
Where they differ is at the core of this schism within the party.
Anytime Clinton is backed up on a point she says, "Well the Senator and I agree on many points". They do. The ones they don't are strikingly different.
Take single payer. Yesterday you laughed it off when someone suggested her "No we can't" attitude was ok because "Republicans control 2/3". After November they will not. We will have the Senate back and we will have made gains in the House. What will her excuse for not trying be then. Yeah, let's continue to leave 29 million uninsured and many like me unable to even afford the health care i DO have.
On basic social and economic issues, they are wolds apart.
And for those of us fed up with the way those issues are handled currently and potentially beyond, we are the people moving away.
Both Parties are in crisis. Ours is just less publicized.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I can't believe the OP. It's like a sparkly little unicorn that doesn't exist.
I suppose the poster is trying to usher in some sort of kumbaya moment. However, to completely miss what is happening in our party is a bit bizarre.
The damage happening on the Republican side is like a volcano--because of Trump. Their mess is visible. The damage is very apparent and it's being played out very publicly via the media.
The damage happening on the Democratic side is like an earthquake. Major, major tectonic shifts are happening underfoot. These shifts are just as real and as deep as the damage on the Republican side, but for now--all people see is the surface, the Sanders and Clinton factions vying for the nomination.
33 percent of Bernie supporters have stated that they won't vote for Clinton. That is jarring. To fail to understand the impactful shifts happening is an open invitation to be completely gobsmacked when all of this hits. This is not like any other election year in the Democratic party. This is not about Bernie and Hillary. This is about an uprising of people who are finally done with establishment politics and a horrendously corrupt system. This goes beyond candidates. It's real. It's about principals that go beyond Bernie. If Bernie doesn't win, the fight doesn't go away. It continues.
Furthermore, all of the voting irregularities/cheating/shenannigans happening from state to state are taking a toll on Democrats. People are very angry. This is turning many off. I saw this in my own state of Iowa. You don't think people in Mass, Arizona, Iowa and other states weren't completely repelled by what happened in their own backyard? Wow. I tell you what---I wish all of you could have witnessed what happened at the Polk County Convention in Iowa a couple of weeks ago. There was an open mic and throughout the entire day (which was 11 hours, by the way) people used that mic to decry the Clinton camp and express outrage, sadness and just about every other emotion. I can't even repeat some of the things that were said.
Anyone who tries to minimize this is either in denial or is completely missing the reality.
The problem is--the shifts are major, but they are subterranean. The true damage won't be apparent until that tension is fully released, just like with an earthquake. When that happens, I predict a 9.0 on the political Richter scale. Only then will the fallout be visible and undeniable. It will be worse than anything happening in the Republican party.
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)I think I've read that headline during every election campaign in my life.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)This time is no different regardless of the melodrama.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)All in it together
(275 posts)This time we have a real choice in the candidates. Unfortunately a lot of Dems haven't noticed how much we need the change that Bernie represents. We see that someone can do it without the help of billionaires and multinational corporations, but with our support. Even though the media has been against him from the start, he would hurt their bottom line, Bernie is getting the word out. That is really empowering for us "little people". Sure some are happy or content with the status quo "but the times they are a changing".
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)It's Hillary's problem with everyone else.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)SheenaR
(2,052 posts)GOP is currently winning that area right now, but come Election Day many here will wonder what happened up and down ballot. A sizable chunk (yes currently the minority) of the Party is not happy. That chunk is needed and cannot be ignored any longer.
How anyone can say our Party is in good shape when you see how DWS and other Dem leaders wield their authority so arbitrarily and always toward where the money is, is beyond me
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... the only "war" that I can see exists here. None of the Bernie supporters I know in real life behave the same way I've witnessed some behaving here.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)Must be nice to have your health care, your job, etc.
Those in the Party who do not or cant afford their healthcare, have lost their jobs due to our positions on trade, those who can't afford college or are buried in debt.
These arent DU issues. Our Party is ignoring them. It will come back to bite the Party in the ass.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Only a would-be little insurgency could imagine they constitute a civil war -- if they work hard at self delusion, and they do. Incredibly hard.
Proud member of a big, unified progressive movement.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)he thinks the rest of America and the Democratic party in it, including the power-bases of the party on the West Coast and Northeast, politically looks like purple-red Texas.
He doesn't get that we're fleeing them faster than they're making Texas bluer.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)I know are deranged Hillary-haters like you see online.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)"you do not see it because you are losing so badly." -Jzargo
Dan, the only people who would deny that there is an internicene fight in the Democratic party are Clintonites so out of touch with reality that they don't even see that they're losing that fight. The policies of the future Democratic party are ours, not yours or Hillary's. Her supporters, much like the voting base of the GOP, will be dying off over the coming decade. We have the youth, we're growing in power...and you're just waning.
Clinton supporters have the numbers today to probably wrap up the nomination...but the trend isn't going away from them...it's fleeing so fast that their candidate may be beyond "not re-electable" as soon as the midterms in 2018.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)She is the poster girl for everything Sanders and his supporters are determined to change. That's both in terms of certain policies and the way she does things, which both come from the same root...
It's the corruption, stupid. (Paraphrasing an election meme from the Clinton years.)
Even if she wins the nomination, and even if she wins the election, there is no chance that the Repubs are going to forego a full court press on her actionable issues which are abundant. And I think we can bet safely that we haven't seen them all yet. There will be investigating committees galore, just for starters.
There will be full obstruction from minute one. And I don't see any chance of her completing even one term without being forced out of office.
She is a walking time bomb of corruption. Berners are not going to vote for that, and even if they did it wouldn't last for long. So enjoy your delusional view of the landscape while it lasts. 'Cuz those chickens are looking for home right now.
You're asking for it (all of the above), just remember that if you get it.
(A tip off in my opinion: If we see Sanders at some point agreeing to be her VP, it will mean only one thing -- that he has definite reason to know that she is going to be taking a walk real soon. Otherwise I'm very sure he won't do it.)
JEB
(4,748 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)Become the uncaring, stick your head in the sand party. And there are many, many, many Americans there with them.
Thank goodness there's some caring life somewhere and we haven't all become Corporatacrats.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)President Obama's cuts to SS, President Obama's bombing of Syria over the gassing of Syrians, about the efficacy of going over the fiscal cliff, before that.