When Hillary sends your job to India, China and/or Vietnam...

[whereisjustice]

I guess we can still admire her pluckiness.

[Trust Buster]

1. Corporations send jobs overseas and not President's.

[Betty Karlson]

3. Certain presidents let them and encourage them to do so.

Others don't. Be careful whom you choose.

[Trust Buster]

5. There is no "letting them". Corporations have the legal right to do business wherever they choose.

[CalvinballPro]

16. You cannot explain this to the political fringes, who both believe the POTUS has powers of dictator.

[JaneyVee]

23. Any govt control we hand over will be exploited by Repubs.

Some of Bernies ideas sound ok until you realize that eventually we'll be handing over all that govt control over to Republicans, who will then use it all in hostage negotiations against Democrats. It will be Democrats choosing between cutting single payer healthcare, cutting foodstamps, or a govt shutdown.

[Betty Karlson]

19. And the state has a legal reason to demand import fees from business overseas.

If only to protect domestic production from a "race to the bottom". That's why nations have sovereignty.

Some presidents do away with sovereignty because they believe in free trade, and consider a race to the bottom an acceptable risk / a desired outcome.

[Trust Buster]

22. And foreign countries will respond with import fees of their own creating a trade war.

Trump advocates a trade war.

[Betty Karlson]

31. So all opposition to TPP and TIPP is now support of Trump?

I think I spot a strawman there... A YUUUGE strawman.

[Trust Buster]

37. Millions of jobs have left in search of rock bottom labor costs for years. It's been reported on.

[Betty Karlson]

40. So how about we make the search for rock bottom unprofitable?

Leveling the playing field at the level of living wages, so to speak?

[JaneyVee]

24. Advocating a trade war is disastrous policy.

[Betty Karlson]

30. So unless we have a race to the bottom, all else is a trade war?

I think your strawman argument is a bit too obvious.

[revbones]

26. Trade deals are negotiated by the administration. nt

[Trust Buster]

33. Millions of our jobs have made their way over to Asia without a trade deal.

[revbones]

34. And millions more because of trade deals. nt

[yallerdawg]

8. And corporations don't need no stinkin' trade deals!

Maybe 'workers of the world' do? If we are leading the way and promoting our values?

Promoting - not imposing.

[Trust Buster]

12. We've lost millions of high paying manufacturing jobs to Asia without a trade deal.

[reddread]

20. MFN after Tiananmen Square

Bush/Clinton tag teamwork against the American working voter.

[yallerdawg]

28. Every voter is a consumer.

When corporations like Walmart began demanding lower-priced goods and suggested China as the source - or they would put American corporations out of business by buying Chinese corporate products, including SOE's - MFN was just a response to reality, for the American consumer.

Isolationism and protectionism hurts everyone. We live in a global economy - and it is done.

Our wages now includes the world's wages!

[Armstead]

63. If one has a cut and is bleeding....

It makes no sense to take out a knife, and make the cut and bleeding woirse.

[Trust Buster]

67. Yes, but if that cut is a global gash, thinking that a band aid will heal the wound

when stitches are needed will only lead to a longer healing period. We are now competing with global wages. Starting a trade war will only delay world wages increasing. We're half way through the global pipeline. There's really no turning back at this point. I have no problem making adjustments to TPP but we can't live in a bubble in an increasingly shrinking world.

[Perogie]

13. True

But politicians make it easier along with actual tax breaks for moving operations overseas. No or little import tax on sending goods back into the US. Not taxing US companies on profits that are made from operations outside the US.

Companies shouldn't be rewarded for leaving the US.

[Trust Buster]

18. No, the primary reason corporations off shore labor is to pay pennies on the dollar in labor cost.

[revbones]

36. No, the primary reason is because the removal of tariffs etc... from trade deals.

Which allow companies to take advantage of the lower wages and no employee protections overseas.

[Trust Buster]

38. Corporations have the legal right to seek out Third World labor with or without trade deals.

We live in a global economy now. That trend will not be reversed with legislation or a lack of trade deals.

[revbones]

41. That is incorrect reasoning as to why job losses occurred.

Spouting forth lines like "global economy" without an understanding for why jobs move overseas is just ignorance.

When tariffs were in place, it was not economically feasible to capture the cheaper labor because your costs remained the same. For example.

If it costs me $100 to manufacture a widget in the US because of various costs including $30 of labor (wages, insurance, etc...) and the labor in China would only cost $5, then a $25+ tariff would be the equalizer and the company would keep the job in the US because all things being equal the logistics would raise costs.

Now, that example under a normal free trade agreement, the tariff is removed. Now the determining factor is whether the logistics of shipping are cost-effective enough to avoid cutting too deep into the gains made from lower cost labor. In which case they have $25 per widget to play with, so the answer is usually yes, it's cheaper to manufacture and ship from overseas.

You've made a lot of comments here in this thread that ignore reality and how we got where we are. I would suggest reading some stuff before demonstrating such a lack of knowledge again.

[Trust Buster]

42. That thinking is the stuff of trade wars. It would kill America's exports. You seem to think that

other countries will just accept it lying down. China would love it because they will be allowed to monopolize the Asian market, the fastest growing market in the world, because our exports would be shut out according to your thinking. Globalization cannot be reversed at this point. Trump shares your opinion, though.

[Yavin4]

58. Many Americans cling to the 1950s ideal where America dominated global mfg.

Folks with less than HS diploma could earn a middle class wage. That world started dying in the 60s and that trend continued for the rest of the century.

Those glorified 1950s mfg jobs are not coming back, no matter who you elect as president. We have a global economy now.

[bjo59]

29. Presidents have nothing to do with trade agreements and corporate deregulation? News to me.

[H2O Man]

47. You can't make

this shit up. Amazing, isn't it?

[ThePhilosopher04]

62. Presidents set the agenda, which forges the policy which allows Corps to send jobs overseas

Hillary is for jobs going overseas and reduced wages in America. She has been for nearly 25 years, at least.

[djean111]

2. Evidently it should be considered an honor to lose your job or die in a pointless war,

if Hillary is the cause of it.

[JaneyVee]

4. Global economics is hard to grasp, huh?

[Trust Buster]

9. Now they're defending greedy corporations in order to attack Hillary.

How insincere.

[KansDem]

6. If she does that, just tell her to "cut it out."

But then, she has to be elected first.

[Agnosticsherbet]

7. Actually, owners and investors in those companies make that decision.

Neither the President nor Congress has the power to tell a company that they will not move elsewhere. This argument makes no sense.

As much as I would like to see the U.S. become a manufacturing mecca, again, with high paying union jobs, the nature of technology means we will never again have that time of jobs economy.

A great article from 538 explains why manufacturing is not coming back.

Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back

[whereisjustice]

43. Complete BS. TPP and NAFTA are two presidential initiatives driven from Dept of State and exec branc

Trade deals are the domain of the president.

[Agnosticsherbet]

61. Complete BS is what you wrote. Trade deals are not what drove manufacturing out.

Globalism driven by technology, and the ability to move a factory and take advantage of cheap labor, and information technology that allows just on time delivery enable companies to increase profits for owners and investors is what drives manufacturing from the country.

It is cheaper to kill a chicken here, send it to china for processing, and then ship it back than to pay for people to process it here. That is not TPP, NAFTA, or any other trade deal. It is the result of technology and cheap labor.

A President could initiated a pure isolationist policy and companies will leave because the can make higher profits using cheaper labor.

And all those jobs will never come back, no matter what a candidate promises.

Manufacturing Jobs Are Never Coming Back

Technology has changed and big, labor intensive factories, are going away.

[whereisjustice]

68. Exactly. Let them leave and send the CEO to the slums of India. That would be perfect. Let's see how

well they do in China. Let them live with the work force they love in the nations with the worst human rights violations

That would be perfect. Let's see how fast they run back to the US.

China would hang the sons of bitches at Goldman.

Or simply shoot them in the head.

Let them live in Mexico and have them send their kids to the schools there.

Perfect.

[Agnosticsherbet]

69. Wow, that's harsh. My point, Corporations leave without trade deals.

chasing low wages because the current technology makes it easy, and most foreign countries do not have labor friendly laws.

Higher profits takes them to other countries.
If they move back, it will be with highly automated factories that use a tiny fraction of the labor force that would have been necessary two decades ago.

China would not hang Goldman. They have set up places where they have their own millionaires and bankers. The leaders of the country are wealthy. Google "List of Chinese millionaires by networth." they have billionaires. China's Communist government has adopted their own version of Capitalism.

[cantbeserious]

10. All Hale Thy Future Leader - All Devote Thy Life To Thy Lord - All Pray Thy Pain Is Not In Vain

eom

[JoePhilly]

65. I think you meant ... eospam.

But I could be wrong.

[astrophuss42]

11. The fact is

The majority of people who are privileged enough to look forward to a HRC presidency are old enough to be retired or in a skilled position.

[Trust Buster]

15. Try telling that to the African Americans and Hispanics that voted for her in landslide numbers.

[RiverLover]

17. She just seems so presidential.

Priorities!!

[MohRokTah]

21. When have the federal government jobs been offshored?????

That doesn't happen.

And that's who a president employs.

Oh, you're talking about companies offshoring jobs to other nations to save money and moreso, due to labor arbitrage.

So take it up at the next meeting of the investors.

Oh, you don't invest?

Then you have no right to tell the companies how they should be run. If you want that right, invest.

[Trust Buster]

25. I just wish they'd stick to just hating Hillary instead of twisting themselves into pretzels

In an effort to blame her for every problem in the world today. At least that would be more honest.

[whereisjustice]

52. Hillary: TPP the gold standard. NAFTA proving its worth...

Both quotes from Hillary...both lies.

[JoePhilly]

64. Good new ... they've stopped blaming OBAMA for every world problem.

For now.

[whereisjustice]

49. Oh yes i do have that right...

The fascist worldview you have presented as your own doesn't exist, and I have every right. In fact corporations are bound by laws of US at a minimum. And those tax free operation I. India do not pay for the resources being used Olin the US.

Oh yes. It may surprise you corporation are not a sovereign nation.

Seems like I've heard your shpiel before.. is this Cliven Bundy... .?

[MohRokTah]

51. OLIGARCH!!! CORPORATIST!!!! BANKSTER!!!!!

[DonCoquixote]

54. No right?

the same companies that were bailed out by us time and again, the same companies that would be the first to demand us help and solider if a Cuba were to claim their properties?

Sorry folks, there is a civil society, and all the money in any account foreign and domestic, will not help you if the corporations get rid of that idea, why, because then then billionaires will eat the millionaires, the millionaires will eat the upper middle class, and there will be no crumbs left.

The people who speak as if there is so such thing as society are the first ones that will demand help when someone wants to do to them what they do to everyone else.

[MohRokTah]

56. Yes, no right.

The only people who have an absolute right to drive the direction of a corporation are those who are invested through their right to vote on matters related to the board of directors.

OF course, you do have an absolute right to bang your head against the wall and that will be every bit as effective as whining about what corporations do.

[DonCoquixote]

57. or not to buy from corporations that hurt me

or not to donate one red cent to the politicians that serve those corporations regardless of whose badge they wear. I truly hope that supporters of Hillary are already working on trying to sweet talk the people they insulted into helping them come November. I know Hillary is hoping they are. Not that we will not be doing our best to defeat Trump, but frankly, do not think that as Hillary tries to shift into her "unity" phase, she will not see that, like Bernie Sanders, it is possible to have your followers become your worst enemy.

[MohRokTah]

59. Yeah, good luck with that.

If you gave up the internet, moved off the grid and ate grass, you MIGHT be able to boycott all the "evil corporations".

[pampango]

27. We trade less than every country in the world other than Sudan and the Central African Republic.

If trade is the cause of our problems, why does it not cause worse problems in progressive countries that trade 2-3 times as much as the US does?

I doubt that our relatively minuscule level of trade is going to change no matter who gets elected in November (although there is a chance that Trump will trash the whole system) but we will still blame our problems on trade rather than on regressive taxes, 'right-to-work' or an ineffective safety net. And the 1% will keep laughing at us behind our backs. They know what would help the middle class and hurt them and it ain't restricting trade. (Germany, Sweden and Canada can attest to that, too. Trade ain't the issue; it's taxes, unions and safety nets.)

[whereisjustice]

46. 1,000,000 H1B visas in usa. Millions of jobs to Mexico and Asia...

then there are the multiplier effects of destroyed communities. Your propaganda is pure BS when it comes to rationalizing the wholesale destruction of middle class America so Wall Street can take advantage of slave labor.

[pampango]

60. I don't defend H1B visas. Do you contend that we don't trade less than every other country on earth

except for those two? Are you suggesting that if we traded even less, that would somehow solve our economic problems? It is funny that actual progressive countries have not arrived at that conclusion and actually trade 2 to 3 times more than the US does.

[Tarc]

32. Stage 7

[whereisjustice]

53. Like accepting torture as an exptession of patriotism

[whereisjustice]

35. The biggest increase in offshoring to India is "safe" high pay professional work

Civil engineering
Electrical engineering
Mechanical engineering
Aerospace
Programming
Pharmaceuticals
General research and development
Architecture
Paralegal
Medical records
Graphic arts
Design
Fashion
Radiology
Networking
Web design
Call centers
Financial planning
Commercial investment, finance, banking

$60,000 for you degree with loans and you are fighting Asia by yourself with your own Government working against you.

When people talk about the new reality of global business they are really scolding you for wanting something more than a cardboard shack with open sewer.

After all, if it's good enough for Asia it should be good enough for the USA.

I don't understand how people like this can be Democrats but I guess they enjoy a few civil liberties like a right to an abortion, gay marriage , etc. But on economic issues they might as well be die hard GOP.

[vintx]

45. And Hillary is big on increasing H1B visas nt

[PowerToThePeople]

39. This thread is full of right wing trickledowners

They make me vomit.

[whereisjustice]

44. These are paid shills and DNC Wall Street conservative shills

They aren't even worth $2 a day that they get in India.

They have no skills other than sending our jobs to slave labor in Asia.

[whereisjustice]

50. Exactly. Now that Obama and Hillary know that the destruction of

The middle class (like global warming) is real and not a left wing conspiracy... do you think they'll kill TPP?

Not a chance. They are just going to keep pouring gas on the fire.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. And, admire her pluckiness when she sends more drones, troops, or bombers to the Middle East.

This is a threat that knows no borders. That’s why I’ve laid out a plan to take the fight to ISIS from the air, on the ground with local forces and online where they recruit and inspire. Our goal cannot be to contain ISIS, we must defeat ISIS.

From her speech to AIPAC.

[CharlotteVale]

66. It's HER TURN!!!!!1!1