2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI'll admit it. I am massively depressed and angry and bitter tonight
I haven't given up on Bernie, and whatever happens I hope he fights all the way through. An upset is still possible.
But realistically speaking it looks like the Democratic Establishment has imposed the Big Clampdown.
So much for Liberalism, Reform, Fresh Air and "Can Do" Enthusiasm. So much for Real Healthcare Reform. Real Financial Reform. So much for any hope of Anti-Trust actions. So much for Fair Trade.
It will either be eight years of Dems in the Wilderness or eight years of Smug Democrat Elite Corporate Wall Street Domination. Pat those annoying liberals and progressives on the head and get back to business as usual of screwing the American people behind a sunny smile. I'm sure the Upper 20 percent are relieved. "Whew we dodged a bullet."
Let the Big Con Contionue.
Yes I will support the Dem nominee. blah, blah. But I'm gonna need a really tight clothespin in November.
Hopefully I'll feel better about this, and may self-delete this.
tarheelsunc
(2,117 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I understand disappointment. But let's be careful about dismissing Clinton voters as gullible.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I would not be feeling this crappy if it were not that each of them represent bigger things than the personal beauty contest.
And I wouldn;t be so angry if it had been fought honestly on a level playing field.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)riversedge
(70,350 posts)davidn3600
(6,342 posts)-Winston Churchill
Broward
(1,976 posts)Most just don't realize that.
brooklynite
(94,792 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)It's more of a too ignorant argument, but yes some are too stupid too.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)in the GE and i'm pretty sure the idiots will win.
Broward
(1,976 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)Do they really think Hillary will do anything positive or progressive as president?
I guess they do.
brooklynite
(94,792 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Including the decision to vote for the Wal Mart of Democratic Politics.
Karma13612
(4,555 posts)When the number of people needing a better paying job or healthcare coverage increases under Clinton administration, when Goldmans Sachs takes up residence in the WH,
are you going to help those of us making crap money and working longer hours for less money than we did a decade ago??
No?
Didn't think so.
I am the 99%
I am scared of a Clinton presidency as much as I am a republican presidency.
For good reason.
I am 4 years from retirement and Hillary wants to means test my Social Security.
If I am left living in a cardboard box eating cat food, would you mind if I take over a small patch of your living room floor????????????????????????????????
No?
Didn't think so.
brooklynite
(94,792 posts)Karma13612
(4,555 posts)getting at?
Obama has done a great job.
I do not equate Obama and Clinton.
Yea, Obama is to the right of Bernie, but he isn't Clinton.
Since it's 3-15, I understand I can no longer criticize Hillary with inappropriate name calling. So, I cannot say why I dislike her. Lets just leave it that I don't like with whom she affiliates, and some of her past votes.
I don't make $50K per year.
And I am retireing in 4 years.
My retirement is going to be lean, very lean with Hillary or the republicans.
I am scared.
Get it?
Social safety nets are going away.
If I run out of money, how do I survive?
How?
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)We were against Hillary this time and against her in 2000 - we were dreaming that Obama would win.
Stop trying to rile eveyone up and go toddle over to the Hillary link where Bernie supporters are banned.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I haven't agreed with him on everything, but he is fundamentally good and has integrity. And I think were he allowed a third term he'd become more liberal.
Clinton Inc. is not the same thing at all.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)I think we are hopelessly going to work until we die. I have no more hope for social security if Hillary wins the WH. I am so beyond sad tonight.
I think I can't go on anymore as a Democrat. Perhaps I never was a Dem....just an old hippy who wishes I could have a good drink.
Karma13612
(4,555 posts)I wanted to be able to just "BE".
Sleep soundly without worrying about my next work day.
Not worrying about keeping my productivity levels where the boss wants them.
Being able to have tea with a cookie midmorning while I ponder my afternoon adventure.
Playing with my paints and brushes in my little studio. I am not an artist but I love to play with all the supplies and create mixed media journal pages.
I want to listen to NPR at home during the day. Not some horrible commercial station that is going non-stop at work all day, while I am trying to concentrate on reading medical records to code.
I am tired of driving to and from work in snow and ice and fog.
Take long walks.
Just Be.
No fancy travel vacations.
Grow vegetables.
Read.
Feel rested when I wake, not like the Dunkin Donuts guy from years ago that used to meet himself at he front door coming/going to work. "Time to make the donuts".
Cook healthy meals.
Now, I am just a tired robot going from work to home to work to home.
Beowulf
(761 posts)brooklynite
(94,792 posts)Beowulf
(761 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Many people feel the same.
I will be caucusing March 26th for Bernie. It may well be the last electoral action I take in this country.
Karma13612
(4,555 posts)I wish you the best.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)But, for the sake of my child, I need to look out for him. The future here is bleak.
Karma13612
(4,555 posts)Cape Breton.
If they did open the doors to Canada, I think they would be shocked how many would come join them.
I would.
We live close to Canada in Northern New York.
Its kinda torture knowing that they live the Bernie life up there.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)I have a lot to get in order here first, but that move becomes my number one goal from this point forward.
Karma13612
(4,555 posts)Oh man.
So, what happens is this, the Bernie-minded people leave the US
Do we stay and fight?
Is it worth it?
I keep thinking this was our last chance.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...at turning further right at any point in the next few months I may be compelled to not vote for her. I'm feeling the same way you do. I really don't get what her appeal is over Bernie, but I tend to focus on policy over identity.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)(so I don't have to try to hold my nose). I will if I HAVE to. I really hope that apathy doesn't strike us on Election Day.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)If she isn't careful I may have a very bad cold that day.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Get my drift?
dana_b
(11,546 posts)here in California in November. :
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)There truly is no hope for this country.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)won a 2nd term.
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Biggest con in history.
I'm done with politics too. I hope. This is so pointless.
Broward
(1,976 posts)Please don't take that the wrong way. It's just nice to see a kindred spirit.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Well, except one part of the post.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)They knew that Bernie was serious about what he was saying, and they didn't like it.
They thought Trump was a buffoon, so the establishment media cashed in on him, and now here we are with the Trump juggernaut.
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)I just hope she doesn't wait until the general election.
ezgoingrl
(1,223 posts)this election has turned this die hard into an independent, I'm afraid. I'll never ever feel the same way about this process again. And that's saying a lot.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)fall on my sword! Will be the most hated vote I've ever cast and I'm afraid we'll pay a huge price for what has been done.
randome
(34,845 posts)Clinton will have an army of aides to bring into the White House. Not all of them will be as 'evil' as you imagine her to be. The office changes the person and I think we will all be surprised by what results.
Stay optimistic and help keep pushing her and her supporters further left.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Been round this merry go round too many times to believe that will happen.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...narrative of this election cycle. She shouldn't need to be pushed left...she should have already been there.
randome
(34,845 posts)For the Democratic party, it was try to co-opt some of the right's issues or die. I don't think they realize that they no longer need to be afraid of the GOP. I mean look at how the GOP is self-destructing right now. So yes, I think they need to be 'guided' back to the left and into the light once more.
And Clinton is part of that 'old school' who once was afraid so she perhaps needs it more than anyone.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...and I think we can all acknowledge that that isn't the case.
randome
(34,845 posts)The DNC is very much wedded to prevailing Democratic sentiment which is still reeling from the Reagan Reign. And they don't need to be. It's like convincing someone to come out of their bunker and they're still too afraid to do so.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
Doremus
(7,261 posts)Not impossible to break out but it would take one hell of a will and I just don't see it, unfortunately.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)People have to speak out, influence, push, etc. Your work (and our work) is not done.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)I expected Hillary to be the DEM nominee. Would have been a huge surprise to me if she wasn't. That's not to say my man Bernie hasn't put up a good fight--he has. But the odds were stacked against him. Hillary has the support of the party, big donors and a large chunk of voters who wanted to vote for her.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)but we have to remember, the calendar IS favorable to bernie going forward. i think many of us got pumped by michigan and thought 2 or 3 wins were possible tonight. maybe not.
but some big states coming up.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)words will go on. they will not be forgotten. change will come -- slowly. bernie opened up people's hearts and minds.
stopwastingmymoney
(2,042 posts)Bernie has changed the conversation, which was his stated goal at the beginning.
That is incredibly valuable all on its own
jwirr
(39,215 posts)now. We must work in our local communities while we keep an eye on what is going on in DC.
And remember we cannot remain silent. Bernie wanted a movement. I for one am still in it to win it.
mvd
(65,180 posts)I'm proud of Sanders though. The Party establishment was completely resistant to change, and that (combined with Clinton's name and money) hurt us this time. But don't despair - we aren't going away and they will need us.
killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)If he's worth his salt, he's going to start aiming to help flip congress, and maybe state government's in the general.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)continue to support them.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Sky Masterson
(5,240 posts)I feel like a bunch of fools anointed the weakest candidate.
Also, Mics amplify voices, Hill. You don't have to raise your voice
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)Hillary's ground game won the night for her.
democrattotheend
(11,607 posts)When she lost largely because she had no ground game.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)believe with all my heart that something smells to high heaven. I've been around hundreds and hundreds of people, have seen rally after rally with thousands and thousands of people ALL for Bernie.
Just DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. Now, we're looking at what a REAL OLIGARCHY looks like!
Something is really messed up, but we'll never know how it happened. So many people I've talked to in other countries already have asked me what's wrong with us... I no longer have an answer. Too many people have been inspired by Bernie and he's raised millions after millions of dollars. THIS DOES NOT ADD UP!
Say what you will, but this seems very weird to me.
Outta here!
Luciferous
(6,086 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)But it is a long game- always has been.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)of the huge significance of the other two branches will be recognized by voters. That is a major change that needs to happen for any revolution to last more than four years or accomplish much.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Wind is officially out of my sails. Entering doldrums.
So depressed that I will now have to function as an apologist for
Clinton when I could have been a full-throated supporter of Bernie.
Oh well. At least I won't have to rustle up any more donations.
I'll vote for Hillary, but honestly, I don't care who wins.
Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)A great night for wall street bankers and for-profit prisons and insurance companies. The CEOs know that the fat bonuses they get by denying people healthcare are safe for another 4 years.
amborin
(16,631 posts)my husband is disgusted by the corruption and won't vote for HRC under any conditions; he will write Bernie's name in; I will
probably do the same
brooklynite
(94,792 posts)Plenty of real Deomcrats will be left.
amborin
(16,631 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)California for Bernie!!
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)This is a self-defeating mentality. I thought this "movement" was about more than Sanders, but now I'm not so sure.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)firebrand80
(2,760 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)I used to take a few glasses into the basement and throw them against the wall when I had a house asnd felt frustrated. Wonderfully theraputic. Now I live in apartment, so may resort to going outside and beating on a nearby tree.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I actually empathize, I wanted Kerry to beat george war bush so badly I went into a funk for months. Hope that doesn't happen to you.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Focus on local stuff and my own life, and hope the American democracy at least lasts as long as I do.
I've developed good coping mechanisms over the years.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)There will be candidates that need good supporters.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I won't give up totally, but this is not one of those problematic parts of the country
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I'm not only in a blue area, I am in a corrupt and mobbed up, been threatened by our (future) mayor kind of place where I do not like to put in face time anymore. We have Dems here as disgusting as anyone at the Trump rallies, unfortunately.
I'll do some voter reg, and otherwise work out of state. It all helps!
OnlinePoker
(5,727 posts)Your choice is going to be either a fascist or a corporate stooge. Pathetic.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)It is so unfortunate ....
I consider a win by Hillary to rank down there with January 2001 ....
Frankly, I don't see a difference ...
I am normally an optimistic person, but, deep inside, I cry for the children who will live in ever-growing poverty, with less clean air and clean water, and with a new Trade Deal that should finally kill off the Middle Class ...
I wanna blame ... I wanna castigate ...
The bankers and small percentage of DU are so happy .... The bankers will get what they paid for ...
It was all for naught ....
Bern2WinUSA
(44 posts)Your post is spot on.
Just feel like all is lost.
So tired of 'We the People' getting fucked over Every Time...
Cannot believe this... might not even vote in Nov..
Damnnation...
npk
(3,660 posts)Bernie is the non-status quo and he represents a huge leap of faith for people that are not astute followers of politics and trends. Hillary is the safe choice because she is the familiar choice and has the experience and more moderate policies that people are comfortable with. If America were being rebuilt from the ground up, it would be built in the image of what Bernie Sanders imagines, but unfortunately that is not where we are at yet in this country. IMO things have to get a lot worse in the country before we get to that.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)A lot of people who support Clinton for "pragmatic" reasons agree with Sanders on the issues and what they really believe in. I know many like that.
But it never gets translated into politics anymore.
Nanjeanne
(5,003 posts)To be under 40 and facing a corporatist government with no interest in making this country as great as it could be. Here's to The USA of Corporations.
I simply don't see young people wanting to have their hopes dashed again and again. I have. Feeling if Hillary is the nominee, she is going to face a very tough fight aheqd.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...and definitely not looking forward to having to wait 4 more years to try again for real change.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Hope the younger generation doesn't give up hope and they're left with the means to make change.
Karma13612
(4,555 posts)This thread might be quite busy tonight.
Its a port in the storm. A place we can come while it's still safe to complain.
Tomorrow the hammer comes down and our opinions won't be as welcome.
thanks for your honesty.
Deadshot
(384 posts)I voted for him in the Minnesota caucus.
But I cannot help but think it's about time to unite behind Hillary after her big wins tonight. Mathematically, it's impossible for Sanders to win the nomination at this point. It's time to get realistic. I think it's time to unite behind Hillary.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)I will stand with BERNIE until he steps aside. I will not "unite" with those who have disparaged me and called me non-democratic. They don't want me in their party - that is fine. I will find a party that wants me.
Deadshot
(384 posts)I'm not uniting behind Hillary because of them. In fact, those people turn me off to her. But I do not want to live in a country where Donald Trump is President. That is so much worse than a Hillary Clinton presidency.
nationalize the fed
(2,169 posts)It looked pretty bleak for Washington at times.
#Tulsi2020
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)it is not yet here. Bernie has moved the nation in the right direction. Clinton's political outlook is a dinosaur that is not yet extinct, but will be. Even in South Carolina, where Clinton had her best showing, Bernie beat her with self-described "very liberal" voters. But South Carolina and probably the nation as a whole might is still too conservative for Bernie. The trajectory looks good to me, though. I teach at a university, my students never fail to make me optimistic about the future. The future is with Bernie even if he doesn't win the presidency.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)You're correct that at least the issues Bernie represents have made it this far.
beaglelover
(3,496 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)I'm sure you'll find other Hi11ary supporters who will agree with you.
beaglelover
(3,496 posts)davidn3600
(6,342 posts)beaglelover
(3,496 posts)Is losing because the vast majority of democrats are not socialists!!!
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)So many people went to the polls, particularly in the South, without any idea that Bernie Sanders was running against Hillary Clinton, let alone what he stood for.
Poor people don't have Internet access. They don't have computers, they don't have $40 per month for access. People who get their news by watching ABC World News Tonight plus their local news, via antenna - the only free news accessible to poor people, never even heard of Bernie Sanders.
But they ALL know that Donald Trump is running for President! They've seen him on the news, night after night.
Trump is truly scary to so many voters, so of course they are going to go out and vote for the only person running who is a familiar Democrat, Hillary Clinton. They see it as the first necessary step, the only choice available to them, to beating Trump.
If America is subjected to President Trump, it will be because the mainstream media treated the presidential campaign as if it was a reality TV contest. Trump knows how to get ratings, so he got TV time, so he may well get elected. Greed Rules.
I despise the mainstream media even more than I hate Trump.
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)...release the transcript of her speech. I think not.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Well, ever.
I think that says somehing right there, and I have to believe those that take the temperature of the electorate have taken notice.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I told you I'm depressed and angry tonite. Hopefuily tomorrow will feel better.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Im still voting for him in May, even if it doesnt make a difference.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Though some days it seems like we are back to where we started.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Seeinghope
(786 posts)I am unhappy about the results of primary results tonight. I don't understand why so many everybody complains about the the status quo in DC and how they wish that we could change it.
Tonight, to me, it looks like people really don't want to change anything......except to make things worse.
We have a candidate who, while in Washington for decades, has not aligned himself, therefore is not beholding to anyone in DC. He is running a campaign totally unlike anybody else's and his message is totally unlike anyone elses's. Yet, still, so many people want to go with an deeply embedded establishment candidate. What change is there really? Just the fact that she is a woman?
Then you have another candidate, unlike any other that we have seen in this country...yet. Who is a lunatic. He doesn't speak with knowledge and logic but with crudeness, insults, racism, prejudice, sexism, lies and one-liners as he incites violence. Yet he is winning state after state. HOW?
What has become of this country?
I am so disheartened by what I am witnessing.
I am sticking with Bernie until the bitter end (which I hope is not bitter) and I will follow just have to follow his lead. Maybe this will have to be a real revolution.
GP6971
(31,226 posts)During the primary season, you have to have thick skin. A lot of insults thrown around.
Seeinghope
(786 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Wish it were a happier occasion but keep the faith
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)The last time I felt this pessimistic and dejected over an election was in December of 2000 when the SC announced it's decision. In both cases, at the heart of it was the sinking feeling that a war was in our future and a feeling that we're generally screwed.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Ive never been so glad that I dont have children. How sad is that.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)For me, this feels like exactly as much of a loss and a betrayal of the best interest of the American public as 2000...the beginning of a new national nightmare. I can honestly say that I feel betrayed by my fellow Democrats and I may never forgive them for this. It's not really a surprise that is the case though...this primary has felt like a schismatic event for some time; evidence that there is not one Democratic party but two and they increasingly have nothing in common to unite around and no chance of reconciliation.
I fear tonight was the end of the viable current Democratic coalition. There is no future if Hillary is the nominee; her nomination is a faith-breaker and a deal-breaker to too many.
shireen
(8,333 posts)People like Bernie are so rare in politics. If he does not win, I fear we will be losing an opportunity for fundamental change that I won't see again in my lifetime.
I feel a lot of resentment for the establishment political system. The interweaving of politics and money has become so tight that it's impossible to tell them apart. We have news media that's rotten to the core. (After what the NYT did to Bernie today, I cancelled my subscription.)
The democratic party left me.