2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumNo Howard we Bernie Supporters are not going to Shut Up
Shit Howard - you more then anyone else should object to the 3rd Way / DLC Smear Machine's relentless attacks on Bernie. They virtually claimed responsibility for taking down your 2004 campaign. They dismantled your winning 50 State Strategy handing the House and Senate over to Tea Farty Republicans. And they, the 3rd Way/DLC Smear Machine has driven the Democratic Party and the country to the Right at every turn
And that is what Bernie supporters dislike the most about Hillary's campaign.
Relentless Smear Jobs being perpetrated by 3rd Way Board members, which are nothing more then the repackaging of Bill Clinton's DLC. They are Democratic Party members awash with 3rd Way Campaign Cash, and former Clinton Administration officials masking their self as political commentators in the media. It is disingenuous, its dishonest, and all too often the lies are proven totally false
So What - you want us to just suck it up and just accept another Wall St financed Pack of Lies.
Face the Facts - Hillary's New Found Progressive Positions are totally unproven, brand-new to her, and yet to be seen in action positions of Hillary Clinton. They are in fact a response to the popular field polling results of the positions held by Bernie Sanders. All this amongst $Millions of Donations by Wall St interest and backed by an extremely conservative machine named after her husband's centrist philosophy known as "The Third Way". The same group advocating for the dismantling and Privatization of Social Security.
Ok, ok, I get it - there is a New Flavor of Kool-Aid in town
Just don't expect too many Bernie Supporters to drink it
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,735 posts)He knows which side his bread is buttered on. Alas, how the mighty have fallen...
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)alas bully's usually are about as effective as a piece of wood it getting people to shut up. and I used to respect that guy wow . worst ones are the traitors to there ideas. Bernie hasn't exactly turned on his ideas.
Raster
(20,998 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)He used to speak truth to power.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)perhaps Jim will talk Howard round to support Bernie.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Basically he said something like "I saved thousands of acres of trees, so don't call me a sellout"
Um, yeah. The same as "I did something good once with trees, so that excuses me being a lobbyist and owned by Hillary now..."
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)-Created the modern autobahn system
-Encouraged the development of the Volkswagen
-Stabilized the German economy and eliminated foreign debt
Listing a few good things does not make ones future actions OK Dr.Dean.
greiner3
(5,214 posts)annie48
(11 posts)Great reply to Howard Dean's so called saving trees! I worked so hard for him in the 2004 ele tin and not he is stooping to the establhment rhetoric. Sad.
Faux pas
(14,681 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)Who the hell is Howard Dean ?
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)RKP5637
(67,111 posts)SCantiGOP
(13,871 posts)Appears SNL is now added since they had the gall to do a skit last night on Bernie where he (Larry David) referred to his supporters as "annoying" and advised them to "get a life."
malletgirl02
(1,523 posts)on that enemies list. Disagreement is not an enemies list. Howard Dean and SNL are much more powerful than Bernie Sanders supporters. You think Bernie Sanders should just take it when we are insulted. Taking exception to being insulted is not having an enemies list. Sanders supporters are no much for the powerful Howard Dean and SNL.
SNL is just a TV show, I owe no loyalty to it. It has its opinion , and I have mine. SNL has millions of viewers, and I am just one person. My opinion is not going to hurt SNL.
SCantiGOP
(13,871 posts)Good old Ignore button
malletgirl02
(1,523 posts)You are the person who started it. you were constantly insulting me in the other thread, and now you put me on ignore. You can dish it out, but you can't take it.
bvf
(6,604 posts)You made the mistake of expecting a rational response from him.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)O.k.
I saw plenty of Sanders supporters here and on Facebook saying they thought the SNL skit was funny. In fact, that's pretty much all I saw.
The Hillary morphing into Sanders skit was more spot on though.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)As correct as the polls have been lately it might be sooner that you think
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)They seem to have that "right wing" thing in common.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)If we don't get the money out of this democracy, or whatever it's called anymore, this democracy experiment is going to be short lived. F, just the wealth distribution curve and Citizens United tells one just how F'ed the US is for millions and millions as the US waves flags and pretends to be a democracy. Equality in the US is a cruel joke.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)RKP5637
(67,111 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)RKP5637
(67,111 posts)when grammar is corrected. One hears so many errors it's easy to get it twisted.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)but its hard to write when I get so pissed at those Fucking Sell Outs
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)Doitnow
(1,103 posts)I am 81 years old and really dislike the use of the "F" word and other similar words over and over again in many posts. I am a total Bernie fan. Wild horses couldn't keep me from voting for him. BUT, I have to tell you, it is really a turn-off for me when I see language used like the above on posts. Tell me to "get with it." but if I feel like that, you might consider how many others in my demographic as they go to the polls, people needed by Bernie. I usually stop reading such posts and I just hate the reflection on Bernie who has followers who are too lazy to look up in a dictionary some other more useful terms. Clean it up, folks!! Those terms have long lost their punch.
greymouse
(872 posts)I am used to people with no manners nowadays, but I respect the opinions of people who have common decency more. Also, the use of such language indicates a lazy mind and a lack of taste.
Response to RKP5637 (Reply #17)
Doitnow This message was self-deleted by its author.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)Doitnow
(1,103 posts)RKP5637
(67,111 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)RKP5637
(67,111 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)PassingFair
(22,434 posts)snip>"And look at former presidential candidate and single payer advocate Howard Dean, Bernies fellow Vermonter, who went on MSNBC this week and said that the Sanders plan would in fact undo peoples health care That is something people should be concerned about.
Why the change of heart? Maybe because Dean now serves as senior advisor to the law firm Dentons, where he works with the firms Public Policy and Regulation practice, a euphemism for Dentons lobbying team, Lee Fang reports at The Intercept. The Dentons Public Policy and Regulation practice lobbies on behalf of a variety of corporate health care interests, including the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America [PhRMA], a powerful trade group for drugmakers like Pfizer and Merck.
Karma13612
(4,552 posts)but when I learned about him years later, he sounded like a cool guy.
Now, not so much.
What a disappointment.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)There was a time - not too long ago - when I thought Dean was a star of the left. No more. I consider myself a person of principles, but after seeing SO MANY public servants take the bait - hook, line and sinker - I have to wonder what MY price might be.
Honestly, I think I might easily be "bought" if I could remain anonymous. But to take the cash AND maintain a prominent visibility - THAT would be a much tougher choice!
Karma13612
(4,552 posts)This level of money and sell-out is so far out of my sphere of imagination.
But, I guess we do all have a price.
And I guess we need to remember the nature of elected officials.
Anyone that runs for President of the US has a fairly HIGH level of both confidence and ego.
But, I like to think that Bernie and Elizabeth Warren might be buy-proof.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)Don't watch them now. He is probably on contract and gets paid.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)sammythecat
(3,568 posts)It's hard for me to understand how a man could turn like this. All the things he said, and so passionately and convincingly. And he was right, he was absolutely on the right side of things. I had all the respect in the world for him.
I confess I haven't really been paying a lot of attention to him other than what I come across here on DU, but it seems he has completely betrayed his own principles, and for what? More money? Is that what this is all about? If true, that's really pathetic. I used to consider him a real champion. Now... disgust is the only emotion he inspires in me. From champion to weasel, well done Howard Dean, you had us all believing in you, for a while.
amborin
(16,631 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)its like a coordinated effort
Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #25)
DUbeornot2be This message was self-deleted by its author.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)just ask the Clintons
amborin
(16,631 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)'We get to say anything uncontested and how dare anyone question us? We are the Party, you are our guests, sit down and take what you are served!!!'
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)East Hampton and New York City childhood
Dean was born in East Hampton, New York, to Andrée Belden (née Maitland), an art appraiser, and Howard Brush Dean, Jr.[14] He is the eldest of four brothers, including Jim Dean, Chair of Democracy for America, and Charles Dean, who was captured by the Pathet Lao and purportedly executed by the North Vietnamese while traveling through Southeast Asia in 1974.[14][15]
Howard's father worked at the stock brokerage firm of Dean Witter. The family was quite wealthy, Republican, and belonged to the exclusive Maidstone Golf Club in East Hampton. As a child he spent much of his time growing up in East Hampton; the family built a house on Hook Pond[16] there in the mid-1950s. There the boys Howard, Charlie, Jim and Bill "rode bikes, played with a model train set, [and] built elaborate underground forts." While in New York, the family had a three-bedroom apartment on the Upper East Side along Park Avenue.
Howard attended the Browning School in Manhattan until he was 13, and then went to St. George's School, a preparatory school in Middletown, Rhode Island.[17] In September 1966, he attended Felsted School, UK, for one school year after winning an English Speaking Union scholarship.[18]
Political opponents have been reluctant to seize upon Dean's privileged early life. UPI quoted one of Dean's friends in his youth as saying, "By Hamptons standards, the Deans were not rich. No safaris in Africa or chalets in Switzerland. Howard's father went to work every day. He didn't own a company, or have a father or grandfather who founded one, as mine did."[19] Peggy Noonan wrote in the Wall Street Journal that "he doesn't seem like a WASP. I know it's not nice to deal in stereotypes, but there seems very little Thurston Howell, III, or George Bush, the elder, for that matter, in Mr. Dean.... He seems unpolished, doesn't hide his aggression, is proudly pugnacious. He doesn't look or act the part of the WASP...It will be harder for Republicans to tag Mr. Dean as Son of the Maidstone Club than it was for Democrats to tag Bush One as Heir to Greenwich Country Day. He just doesn't act the part."[
noamnety
(20,234 posts)"Q: Last week, for instance, you said the three senators' decision to support the 2002 Iraq resolution, quote, "calls into question their judgment and ability to sort out complicated issues regarding the most crucial decision any president has to make," in a conference call with New Hampshire reporters.
That's a harsh indictment. And I'm wondering today do you still feel that way.
DEAN: I do. We were presented with a series of facts. I came to a different conclusion than the senators did on those facts. My conclusion was that there was no Al Qaida in Iraq, as the president intimated. My conclusion was that Iraq was not about to acquire nuclear weapons, as the president intimated, and as the British intelligence reports reported the opposite of. My conclusion was that we'd successfully contained Saddam Hussein.
People have questioned my foreign policy experience, and the retort that I make is, that with patience and judgment, I was able to sort out, in fact, the idea that the president was not being candid with the American people ..."
I wonder if he stands by that statement today.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)if he is going to act this way. He hedged his bets, and it appears his political barometer is broken.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Now he's speaking for another "group" that doesn't include the working class.
His defection touches me deeper than most.
I think it is funny that he expects to have loyalty on Facebook when he makes
posts supporting the corporate wing of the democratic party.
His posts are destroyed in minutes with ridicule, and dissenting responses from his former supporters. The supporters
haven't changed their tunes, HE has.
I feel sorry for Jim Dean.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)sometimes be swayed by money. Sadly, it will tarnish his legacy. How much so will likely remain to be seen. Howard has always been outspoken, and much is recorded for posterity. The clear difference is/will be easily discernible to even the most oafish. Sad that he has chosen this path.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)That would make me happy, but it would be unlikely that she would follow through on it.
She wouldn't be able to trust him.
If you've got a LONG time, watch this. Howard talking about his objections to the ACA,
when he was pushing for "public option" that was SO doable, save for Joe Lieberman, and
what is wrong with Wall Street and insurance companies running our health care system.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?315175-1/howard-dean-remarks-health-care-private-sector
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)PatrickforO
(14,577 posts)I can't believe Howard sold out like this.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,735 posts)for money can't buy me love." Seems they were wrong; money evidently bought Dr. Dean's love.
lasttrip
(1,013 posts)Peace.
LT
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)appalachiablue
(41,146 posts)who left MSNBC commenting due to his position as co-chair of the billionaire- funded 'Fix the Debt' campaign to dismantle Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, along with his lobbyist work for the banking and technology industries.
So many prominent Democrats turned away from Democratic Party values to become lobbyists for the industries they once regulated as elected officials, after leaving office. For example, BARNEY FRANK, former Congressman from MA, now a board member of the Signature Bank of NY claims Bernie's banking reforms aren't practical and the tepid Dodd-Frank legislation is enough to manage the big banks.
CHRIS DODD, former CT Senator took mortgage favors from Countrywide Financial and left office in 2011 to work as a lobbyist for the MAA, Motion Picture Assn. of America after he told constituents he'd never become a lobbyist.
https://www.credomobilize.com/petitions/msnbc-disclose-fix-the-debt-co-chair-ed-rendell-s-conflicts-of-interest-when-bookin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Rendell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_Frank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Dodd
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)appalachiablue
(41,146 posts)Hard Left Turn...
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)appalachiablue
(41,146 posts)Jim Dean of Democrats for America Interview with Mark Maynard, March 2016.
http://markmaynard.com/2016/03/democracy-for-americas-jim-dean-on-the-circumstances-that-led-to-the-creation-of-donald-trump-his-brothers-support-of-clinton-and-bernies-chances-to-go-all-the-way/comment-page-1/
turbinetree
(24,703 posts)it's called principles and trust, and the Third Way was given that mantra at one time--------------they failed
And when the BS is /was all said and done, we / us saw what the Third Way DLC represents, we got economic injustice, poverty, and the selling out for greed, and that we / us were the problem, when we /us weren't the problem-------------
I live off Social Security and two small pensions, why would I want to give that earned Union contract money and a eighty year old promise to a bankster who plays three shell monty to make a buck----------------------no thanks
I am just curious as to how much the Denton Law firm pays him now, that he has become a have, as well as being placed with the tag on how much he makes as a lobbyist, and a strategic consultant to us / we have not's
https://theintercept.com/2016/01/14/howard-dean-lobbyist/
Honk----------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016
Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)
appalachiablue This message was self-deleted by its author.
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)Thanks for the thread, FreakinDJ.
speaktruthtopower
(800 posts)TRoN33
(769 posts)He came to Vermont, became the governor then quickly left after he completed his term. He doesn't even mingle with Vermonters often as most governors would.
Duval
(4,280 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)You got your pieces of gold and only had to surrender your integrity and the respect of every decent human being in the world. Yay for you.
Go screw yourself Howard. You are irrelevant.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)If you started tallying all the politicians who've gone over to the Dark Side, you'd get very discouraged, very quickly.
One more reason to admire Bernie Sanders. As Amy Goodman (another rare example of integrity) might say, Bernie is "the exception to the rulers."
dpatbrown
(368 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)Land of Enchantment
(1,217 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)Let's face it, Bernie is someone to stand up with, and that is one of his greatest qualities.
That he fosters this standing up is also completely valuable. Gives people the opportunity to express their own dissatisfactions with the way things are run and have been run.
It's about time, and Bernie is the one leading the way. I am so happy for him. I am so happy for us!!!
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)or at least she is trying to mimic all his positions now
Yallow
(1,926 posts)We are.....
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)"only when they are counting it"
gregcrawford
(2,382 posts)... of anyone who disagrees with him. When he was governor here, he tried to hustle the people of Stockbridge into accepting the expansion of VT Route 107 to accommodate more truck traffic off of I-89. His friends to the south of us in Woodstock didn't want them rumbling through their picturesque and very rich little town on US Route 4, an they didn't want a bypass, either. He got quite testy when we asked very pointed and knowledgable questions. My estimation of his character fell a few notches after his visit to our little school. Now it's headed rapidly toward nonexistence.
beedle
(1,235 posts)DEAN: Even without the Citizens United decision, Ive advised a lot of clients in the industries that I usually end up working with, which are mostly healthcare industries, not to give any money to either side, or if you do, give it to both sides because politicians really dont know much about the issues. They really dont. But believe me, they remember who gave money and they remember those ads. [ ] But they remember the ads, and they remember who was on whose side and who wasnt, and it makes a big difference.
Gee, so tell us Mr. Dean, who do you think Hillary will 'remember' if she gets elected?
Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)rpannier
(24,330 posts)He is a defender of privatizing public schools and of Michelle Rhee
He lobbies for the insurance industry
They ought to be prevented from stating any preference until after all the states have voted or they lose their special vote status
They all ought to lose it anyway
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)Be realistic. Although I always thought did think he was more talk and BS than "real."
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Health care lobbyist
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)fierywoman
(7,686 posts)I keep wishing/praying that where Howard Dean's scream led to will be where Hillary's "cackle" goes.
Jopin Klobe
(779 posts)... Thank you very, very much ...
WillyT
(72,631 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Especially the "former Clinton Administration Officials" part...
A whole mess of what has now become Entrenched ELITE Establishment types...out in full force, shilling for "her".
Fuck them all is what I say! They have been rushing out of the shadows, with a last grasp at their dying power, to spew all sorts of BOO! crap.
No...More...Clintons! EVER!
pacalo
(24,721 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Now he is doing their dirty work for them
pacalo
(24,721 posts)This party has a lot of work to do when these primaries are over because of the damage that has been done against Sanders & his supporters.
nikto
(3,284 posts)Methinks he had an alien embryo transplanted into his spinal cord, and he is now
no longer human like he used to be. He's clearly turned corporatist.
A recent x-ray of Howard Dean's abdomen, with
the corporatist, mind-controlling parasite clearly visible ...
Plus Howard Dean's association with the odious Teach For America just cements his conversion to full-out
hostile alien mutation.
http://nancyebailey.com/2015/02/02/how-yeee-haw-howard-dean-is-way-off-base-concerning-teach-for-america/
http://www.salon.com/2015/02/10/teach_for_americas_truth_problem_tfa_advocates_arent_being_honest_about_education_reform_their_own_agenda/
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)I'm with you 100% but still don't understand exactly where Howard made his sharp turn. Perhaps it was when Obama installed Tim Kaine as DNC chair. Your thoughts?
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)Howard Dean was one of my political heroes in the 2000s. When the Democrats (aided and abetted by the media) elbowed him out of the race in 2004, not only did I vote for Nader, but I deliberately registered as a Democrat so that it would sting more.* When he sold out and became a lobbyist, I looked the other way; I figured he had paid his dues as a populist, and if he wanted to make a few bucks now, well, he's only human. (Sorta like how I forgive Bob Seger for all those shitty albums he made after 1972 or so.) But to see him sink this low......... well, it really makes me sad. I'd like to take the attitude of some of my fellow Bernie supporters here, and say, "well FUCK YOU TOO, HOWARD!" but the whole business is just a tragedy.
* Attention jury, in case this is alerted on for violating an implicit loyalty oath: My vote for Nader was strategic. I was living in a state where the conclusion was foregone.
snort
(2,334 posts)May he find dissatisfaction in all things golden.
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)You're a sellout. A fake. You used to be for single-payer, now you're an insurance lobbyist.
Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gore1FL
(21,132 posts)Gee, I forgot who I am quoting...
FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)On Dec 1st, on Hardball with Chris Matthews, when dean was up in the polls by 20 points, He said this:
MATTHEWS: Are you going to break up the giant media enterprises in this country?
DEAN: Yes, were going to break up giant media enterprises. That doesnt mean were going to break up all of GE.
What were going to do is say that media enterprises cant be as big as they are today. I dont think we actually have to break them up, which Teddy Roosevelt had to do with the leftovers from the McKinley administration.
A couple of months later, the "scream" happened. Now some say Dean was already down and starting to trail in the polls, but, the Media made sure of that!! The Scream was played almost a 1000 times on TV, what was basically a mike ramped up to overshadow the crown and portray Dean as crazy. It was BS, but I think Dean put a target on his back starting with that Matthews interview promising to break up the Big Media.