Bernie: Effort under way right now by HRC and party allies to steal Polk County Iowa convention

[JonLeibowitz]

Effort under way right now by @hillaryclinton and party allies to steal Polk County Iowa conv. election Bernie won earlier today.

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/708789694117445632

.@HillaryClinton and party allies are disenfranchising worker-class delegates at Polk County Iowa Democratic Convention.

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/708792355076177920

------------

Appears to confirm what DUer CoffeeCat has been reporting today. I hope she will report back when she can recharge her phone. CoffeeCat also has videos.

[NWCorona]

2. And here we go!

[greiner3]

68. Spellcheck is most everybody's friend;

If they know it exists; dead give away IMO

BTW NWCorona, this is to the hidden and I figured, meh

[DURHAM D]

3. What is a "worker-class" delegate? nt

[JonLeibowitz]

4. I don't know. Is that the big picture thing to take away from these tweets?

[DURHAM D]

12. I have worked at caucuses,

district meetings and state conventions and never heard the expression. Do you give volunteer time to the party ?

[JonLeibowitz]

14. I don't post revealing personal information on message boards

So we should proceed as if I could be PBO. In the end, who I am is unimportant.

As mentioned below, having to be at a convention for more than 10.5 hours while enduring endless recounts can present a conflict for those who have jobs with shifts on the weekend -- working class people

[Duval]

26. And totally unfair to the elderly and disabled who want to have their vote counted.

[Blue Idaho]

30. Sadly that is the nature of a caucus.

They are long drawn out affairs - like it or not. They are cheap to run compared to a voting primary, but far less than ideal for all the reasons mentioned. Add to that the fact that in this state, any additions or losses now could be completely reversed at the state convention. All the voting representatives have to do is sign a statement saying they will be changing their vote prior to the business of the state convention beginning.

[SCantiGOP]

44. Bottom line is

If it's on Twitter it has to be true.

[Blue Idaho]

56. Ha!

Well - there's much truth in that statement!

[Fawke Em]

89. I've found Twitter to be more reliable than the mainstream media lately. eom

[IllinoisLabour]

6. People who have to go to work

and can't sit around being recounted and recounted and recounted going on 10.5 hours now.

[JonLeibowitz]

11. +1.

[DURHAM D]

13. Thank you.

Is this a district convention?

[IllinoisLabour]

17. Yep nt

[emmadoggy]

37. County. nt

[George II]

83. Apparently many of the commenters in this thread haven't been to conventions before....

....things like this happen during many conventions - republican or Democratic, regardless of the political preference of the delegates.

They weren't recounting just Sanders delegates, they were recounting ALL delegates. And I'm sure some Clinton delegates had to go to work, too. We don't hear any of them complaining, they just know how it works.

[cui bono]

104. Apparently you haven't read any of CoffeeCat's on site reports about the shenanigans.

Hillary's campaign made everyone stay to keep recounting.

.

[MisterP]

5. Reddit news

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kossacks_for_Sanders/comments/4a5oia/iowas_not_over/ on CoffeeCat's OP
https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4a5ajl/iowapolk_county_convention_hillary_supporters_are/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4a5lnm/i_was_a_county_delegate_for_sanders_in_iowa_today/

[renate]

15. from that second link (thanks for all of them, by the way!)

"UPDATE 7 - 5:43pm. The room overwhelmingly voted in favor of demanding the resignation of the Clinton county chair, secretary, etc."

[Uglystick]

16. They should demand that the original count of 600 Bernie and 530 Clinton to stand

and then set to move to remove Clinton delegates for violating Iowa election laws.

[Adrahil]

7. Wait...

Are delegates selected at the caucuses changing their minds? If so, are these people not bound to at all?

[emmadoggy]

39. Precinct delegates are not

bound to stick with the original candidate they were chosen for. They are allowed to switch.

[Thor_MN]

57. They are not bound, but they are pledged.

To vote against your pledge is dishonest. One is misrepresenting one's neighbors by switching candidates. O'Malley's delegates are free to realign as he dropped out, but it is dishonest for either Clinton or Sanders delegates to switch their votes.

Basically, at the local level, after deciding the number of delegates for each candidate, people are elected (more often cajoled) to represent a portion of the neighbors at the next level and vote for the candidate they are pledged to.

The story here is faithless delegates, not the Democratic Party trying to make the system representative of the caucus votes.

[Matariki]

8. I hate this bullshit.

And bullshit like it

[Aerows]

9. Color me ignorant

I thought Iowa had their votes in weeks ago.

I know it is awful to be uniformed, but I want more information more than I prefer to remain stupid.

Could someone explain this to me?

[JonLeibowitz]

10. National delegate counts are not final until the state convention.

It goes precinct convention->district/county convention->state convention, from what I know. This is the district convention.

[Blue Idaho]

33. Meaning any gains or losses today

Can be reversed at the state convention.

[PatrynXX]

20. I said this the very next day Feb 2 that this could happen

I had several people laugh me off. Um I'm in Iowa, this ain't the first time and it won't be the last time

[PatrynXX]

23. technically I see it this way

Hillary supporters cheated at the Caucus level handing out the wrong sheets so naturally this is Bernie supporters only recourse , as in it's clear there were more Bernie supporters at the Caucus.

[Aerows]

29. Remind me again

why I ever wanted to follow politics in the first place?

I desperately need to go back to the days when I was happily debating Linux kernels and video cards.

[Ivan Kaputski]

36. Damn it all to hell, I'm going back to Slackware!

[Aerows]

38. Sound drivers, you neanderthal!!

Sound drivers!

[JonLeibowitz]

46. Slackware can rot in hell! Gentoo is where all the cool kids hang.

Patrick Volkerding is a neanderthal dinosaur

[jeff47]

65. Pfft. HURD will totally blow that crap away.

[JonLeibowitz]

70. Yeah I hear they are releasing that the day after Duke Nukem Forever

(Yes, I know it has since been released; gosh I miss /. jokes)

[Aerows]

99. They released it.

And the fact that you are unaware that it was released illustrates that it was one of the most horrible games since Daikatana.

[JonLeibowitz]

100. I know it was released (see the parenthetical in my comment). Yes, it was horrible.

[Aerows]

101. I liked the Build engine

and D3D, but 4ever was a turd in the punchbowl.

[Aerows]

87. The hell it will - I still remember the repository poisoning.

And Code Red.

And enough fuckery that I think I am impervious to being shocked.

I must interject that you rock, Jeff. We've mixed up enough times that I can only regard you with respect, cher.

[PatrynXX]

77. You too huh

actually someone turned me on to Linux in 2006 , and just now got an arduino , much rather be doing that than this. Figure I'm retiring from this stress BS after this year...

[Aerows]

98. I'd rather argue about K and frontends than

what is becoming a big batch of nothing called our government.

[Thor_MN]

64. Technically, this is Sanders supporters being dishonest.

The county level numbers should reflect the local caucus numbers to within rounding errors. If Sanders supporters did not know what they were doing and pledged to be Clinton delegates on caucus night, switching at the county level is their dishonesty, not the candidate that they abandoned. They are not "bound", but they are pledging to vote for a candidate.

Changing their vote from their pledge makes them a faithless delegate.

I tend to trust the local caucus totals more than I trust biased people whining about the results. If there were problems at the caucus, the place to address is at the local level, rather than making a faithless pledge.

[JonLeibowitz]

76. LOL no. This was explained to you elsewhere but with no effect. Fascinating.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1479630
and
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1479983

But you be sure to have a wonderful day.

[Aerows]

102. What? n/t

[Thor_MN]

106. The first thing done at a caucus is polling for candidates.

If one wants to, one can show up, fill out a ballot and leave. The main event is over. The number of delegates for each candidate is apportioned from that poll - the calculations are somewhat arcane, but the end result is each viable candidate gets a number of delegates from that precinct. Plain, simple and official.

After that, people who wish to represent their neighbors at the next level run to become the delegates, if there are enough that desire to do so. More often than not, the precinct chair(s) are begging people to be delegates. One has to give up at least part of a day and travel to the convention, with no compensation other than fulfilling civic duty. When you become a delegate, you are pledging to vote for the candidate that delegate spot is apportioned to. That's the key point here - a delegate represents their neighbor's votes, not their own. If you don't understand the process, offer to become a delegate and don't pay attention to which delegate you are pledged to, the end result is the Polk County convention.

People have said that there were 9 delegates who thought their pledge was misrecorded. That isn't possible, unless there was election fraud at multiple local precincts. So unless one wants to posit that fraud was occurring at up to 9 precincts, what happened is that 9 people either didn't understand they were pledging to vote for Clinton or they deliberately misrepresented themselves and said they would vote for Clinton and then didn't.

Delegates are pledged, but not bound, to a candidate. That is in place for when a candidate drops out of the race before the convention or there are major developments during the campaign. It is not there for faithless delegates to flip their neighbors votes to the other candidate.

What is totally ridiculous is claiming that Clinton somehow cheated. What happened was decidedly not to her advantage.

There is another part to the caucus, drafting platform planks, that wouldn't work in a primary election, but that is not relevant to what happened in Polk County, Iowa.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

51. I didn't bother reading the responses to your question.

Because I first wanted to bask in the glory that someone else on the planet was feeling as confused as I was. Why is it that these minor details can just "crop up" at the worst of times?

Color me all the beautiful colors of ignorance. The solution is to ask questions. Thanks for asking!

Now I hope to read the answer. Thanks, Aerows!


I just read the "answers". I'm going to take 20mg of Valium and take a long nap.

[Aerows]

103. I'm still confused

Several people have interjected comments, but I am no more clued in than I was when I asked.

Sweet dreams!

[Hydra]

18. *Groan* I know they couldn't have a loss

So they just fought it until they won.

I guess this is good practice for Bernie- I don't think the Repubs can Clinton's this level of dirty fighting.

[PatrynXX]

19. on lady called Molly wow she's got spines

and they can chop your head off. She's called Bernie the ultimate Dictator

[JonLeibowitz]

22. Is there video of this? Thank you for the reports

[AzDar]

21. K & R

[Duval]

24. Victor and I could never have lasted 10 plus hours.

This is criminal. Did anyone let the media know? Well, with our MSM promoting either Trump or Hillary, I guess that's a worthless idea.

I wish I were there to help CoffeeCat and the others. I'm so angry about this. No, I don't want Trump or any Republican to win, but how the hell can I feel good about voting for a dirty trickster who also lies.

[madfloridian]

25. Just retweeted it. Kudos to CoffeeCat for the heads up on this.

[PatrickforO]

27. Disgusting.

[xloadiex]

28. There appears to be a lot of shit taking place in Iowa

https://www.reddit.com/r/IowaForSanders

[Metric System]

31. Official count from Polk Co convention: 114 state delegates each for HRC and Bernie. On Feb 1 HRC

won 53.2% in Polk, Bernie 46.2%.

https://twitter.com/desmoinesdem/status/708810735690784768

And Sanders supporters are complaining?

[ellennelle]

42. keep the numbers straight

the %s you list were the statewide %s.

the dispute today was polk cty.

it was a total nightmare; that's what the complaining is about.

[All in it together]

53. Nope it was Polk County, home of Des Moines, West Des Moines, smaller towns and suburbs.

The income levels of Polk County residents averages higher than most of the state, hence swinging more Hillary.
Statewide it was Hillary 49.6 to Bernie 49.3%

[Fumesucker]

105. Wealthier hence more likely to be Volvo driving, latte drinking Berniebros

The memes really need to be checked for internal consistency, people are starting to notice.

[JonLeibowitz]

45. That assumes all delegate reports were accurate on Feb 1.

What we learned today is that that was not the case, and many delegates were mistakenly labeled as HRC when they supported Bernie.

So yes, we are fighting for every vote to be counted.

[marions ghost]

63. Thank You!

I have worked in elections

[Lucinda]

74. Sounds like it's the Bernie people who are trying to subvert the vote n/t

[George II]

86. He didn't get them all.

[LiberalArkie]

32. Reddit Post by /u/Lex-Loci

County Convention Update self.IowaForSanders
submitted 4 hours ago * by Lex-Loci
I'm sitting at the Polk County convention right now. Before we broke for lunch it was:

Sanders 532
Clinton 519
O'Malley 8

I can't find what the original delegate split was but Clinton had the popular vote here with 53% to 47% and we are turning that around.
Right now the rules committee has adjurned. We believe it's because our "unassigned" delegates are being challenged. I'm not sure where the numbers will land but while we are waiting for a verdict I thought I'd check in to see how the other counties are going?

Update: 2:30 - Some of Sander's delegates had been reported for Clinton. The Clinton Camp appears to be trying to sort through that. We have had a report of 12 delegates switching to Sanders. This doesn't appear to cover that but instead account for the inaccurate count they started with.

3:45 - it was announced that posts are circulating on fb telling people it's ok to leave. The tally is in but has not been confirmed so we may have to be counted again. Current count for Clinton is 333. I have not heard a number for Sanders but a rough estimate has us over 500 still.

I'll keep providing updates until my phone dies.

4:10 after a recount. Before realignment:
Sanders 513
Clinton 529
We know we have 9 people from Clinton that realigned to us. These are believed to be people that were supposed to be for Sanders but were misrepresented as Clinton delegates. As well as 2 of the O'Malley people.
This is an emotional Rollercoaster guys.

4:50 They're calling the final Sanders count at 503. No report on Clinton yet. We are being told that there can not be another recount but we are resolved to stay put just in case.

5:30 Clinton's final count is 511. The delegate total will be split 114 to 114.

There are a lot of people here who are extremely frustrated. The democratic party has certainly lost voters today.

[libtodeath]

34. *

[malletgirl02]

35. Hillary supporters claim that Sanders is

destroying the Democratic Party. If Clinton supports succeed in taking these votes from Sanders then this will destroy the party.

[Onlooker]

40. Caucuses are anti-Democratic

What a corrupt, disenfranchising system that marginalizes the vast majority of voters. It's set up for political shenanigans. After the Hillary supporters won round 1, the Sanders people thought they found a way to take round 2, but the Hillary supporters fought back and secured a draw. Everything done was aboveboard within the context of the caucus system. The problem is not with the candidates. It's with the system.

[JonLeibowitz]

43. The reports I am reading is that

caucus night results were misreported, and many Bernie delegates were mislabeled as Clinton delegates. When the Bernie supporters showed up today, obviously, things shifted. Hillary never "won round 1" in the first place, and now they have succeeded in fighting Bernie to a draw in round 2.

[Old Crow]

48. WOW. (N/T)

[Onlooker]

49. Who knows!

Caucuses are a terrible, terrible system that are arrogant and exclusive. In a close election the loser almost always accuses the winner of something, but really who knows. Neither the Sanders people nor the Clinton people are stupid. They are both playing the game, and where caucuses are the game is more aggressive.

[Blue Idaho]

60. Amen to that!

Elections are more expensive but far less likely to be gamed.

[ellennelle]

47. could not agree more!!

kill the caucuses!

[still_one]

58. I agree. I dispise the caucus system. Just move up to the current times and have a primary

[Thor_MN]

67. A primary is paid for by the state. Caucuses are paid by the parties.

When people behave according to the rules, caucuses work fine. When first time voters stomp through the process without knowing what they are doing, problems occur with either system.

[still_one]

73. No they don't. Most caucuses require you to be present, no absentee mechanism, and that

discriminates against anyone who is not physically able or cannot be there in person

[Joe the Revelator]

41. Its amazing that a candidate will try so hard to disenfranchise so many....

....in her own party. Shame.

[840high]

72. She doesn't see the long view - just

instant gratification.

[Hoppy]

50. Update?

[jhart3333]

54. Link to another thread: CoffeeCat updates

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511477611

Also update at Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/IowaForSanders/comments/4a58ou/county_convention_update/

[AzDar]

52. Isn't this the County where the Commissioner had "HRC 2016" license plate?

[jeff47]

66. No, that's the state party chair's license plate. (nt)

[AzDar]

93. Ah!

[zentrum]

55. All Hands on Deck!!!!!

[Uncle Joe]

59. According to one post on that link the votes have been counted five times and Bernie won but county

party officials weren't satisfied but failed to state a reason why.

Both Bernie and Hillary supporters agreed to the fifth vote which put Bernie on top, but the county party officials are trying to disenfranchise Bernie supporters that are workers and motivate them to leave.

http://www.kcci.com/news/supporters-leave-county-democratic-convention-in-frustration/38484946

Thanks for the thread, JonLeibowitz

[Lucinda]

80. Hillary won the county on primary day and people are subverting that vote

I assume that is why they kept revoting.

Polk County
Democratic
100% Reporting
H. Clinton 53.2% 12,122
B. Sanders 46.2% 10,526
M. O'Malley 0.7% 152
Other 0.0% 0
Uncommitted 0.0% 0


Read more: http://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president/iowa#ixzz42kIk1lME

[Uncle Joe]

81. Isn't this the same county that had voter fraud during the caucus?

Clinton voter fraud in Polk County, Iowa Caucus Caucus chair and Clinton precinct captain do not conduct actual count of Clinton supporters and deliberately mislead caucus



http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4578575/clinton-voter-fraud-polk-county-iowa-caucus

[Lucinda]

84. Not according to this:

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/what-actually-happened-in-iowa-caucus-alleged-voter-fraud-video/

[Uncle Joe]

88. Then why did the Des Moines Register; which endorsed Hillary come out with this editorial?

Editorial: Something smells in the Democratic Party

(snip)

First of all, the results were too close not to do a complete audit of results. Two-tenths of 1 percent separated Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. A caucus should not be confused with an election, but it’s worth noting that much larger margins trigger automatic recounts in other states.

Second, too many questions have been raised. Too many accounts have arisen of inconsistent counts, untrained and overwhelmed volunteers, confused voters, cramped precinct locations, a lack of voter registration forms and other problems. Too many of us, including members of the Register editorial board who were observing caucuses, saw opportunities for error amid Monday night’s chaos.

(snip)

Dr. Andy McGuire, chairwoman of the Iowa Democratic Party, dug in her heels and said no. She said the three campaigns had representatives in a room in the hours after the caucuses and went over the discrepancies.

McGuire knows what’s at stake. Her actions only confirm the suspicions, wild as they might be, of Sanders supporters. Their candidate, after all, is opposed by the party establishment — and wasn’t even a Democrat a few months ago.

So her path forward is clear: Work with all the campaigns to audit results. Break silly party tradition and release the raw vote totals. Provide a list of each precinct coin flip and its outcome, as well as other information sought by the Register. Be transparent.

(snip)

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/editorials/caucus/2016/02/03/editorial-something-smells-democratic-party/79777580/

[Lucinda]

90. Because there were lots of rumors that people jumped on for partisan reasons

The article I linked states that the voters were given the option for a recount and the majority declined

[Uncle Joe]

91. But they called for an audit because the margin was razor thin and there were numerous

discrepancies; whether real or imagined, do you believe an audit should have been held?

[Lucinda]

94. Anytime it's that close I have no objections, but these results were certified as the

final tally of the county. I don't think that result should be subverted.

[Uncle Joe]

96. Why would the delegates change their mind as to which candidate to support? n/t

[Lucinda]

97. Not sure how the delegates became delegates. Was it intentional?

Did people become delegates so they could change the results? Did Hillary supporters not show up, or suddenly decide to change their votes?
I don't know the people, so I have no idea why. But if people accept the role of standing for voters, I think they should do just that, no matter who would have been the winner of the county.

[40RatRod]

61. Appears???

Please try sticking to the facts. There are enough conspiracies theories going around DU already. Guessing or taking a single individual's claim as a fact only gets others all excited and worked up for no reason. IMHO.

[JonLeibowitz]

71. Your advice will be given the consideration it deserves.

[840high]

75. Bam! Good.

[warrprayer]

62. Kick and rec

For exposure!

[TheFarseer]

69. Why are they doing this again in the first place?

I thought the caucus was a month ago?

[marions ghost]

78. check out

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1479250

[marions ghost]

79. K&R

Goodnight.

I am totally disgusted by this. Can we get some honest elections in this damn country?

[George II]

82. All that happened was that the delegates' credentials (ALL delegates)....

.....were being checked by officials.

No "fraud", and no bona fide delegates were disenfranchised.

[JonLeibowitz]

85. I suppose that explains the 3 soft recounts (i.e. in the same round of the process)

...despite there being no provision for such procedures? Nope. It does not.

I find your explanation wanting.

[George II]

92. Pity.

[mhatrw]

95. All that happened is the Clinton people threatened to sue. put themselves in charge

of everything, and then did everything in their power to rig the count.

[marions ghost]

107. "put themselves in charge of everything..."

--I certainly hope the story of this recount comes out in some journalistic write-up.

I want to read about this....!