2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHacker ‘Guccifer,’ who uncovered Clinton’s private emails, to be extradited to US
Perhaps most notably, Lehel was also the first source to uncover Hillary Clintons improper use of a private email account while she was Secretary of State, which the FBI is investigating as a potential danger to national security.
In March 2013, the hacker released to RT and several other news outlets the four memos that had been sent to Clinton from her former political adviser Sidney Blumenthal. The memos contain information regarding the September 11, 2012 attacks on the US diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya, as well as the January 2013 hostage crisis in In Amenas, Algeria.
https://www.rt.com/usa/334846-romanian-hacker-guccifer-extradition/
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyber-guccifer-idUSKCN0W61TX
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Read both articles and look at the differences. Both articles contain the same information, almost word for word, except for one glaring difference.
The Reuters article cut out all references to Hillary Clinton and the fact that this hacker was the first to uncover that Clinton had been using a personal email server.
Here are the paragraphs that are in the RT article, but left out of the Reuters article. (Wow. Just Wow.)
-----------------------------
Perhaps most notably, Lehel was also the first source to uncover Hillary Clintons improper use of a private email account while she was Secretary of State, which the FBI is investigating as a potential danger to national security.
In March 2013, the hacker released to RT and several other news outlets the four memos that had been sent to Clinton from her former political adviser Sidney Blumenthal. The memos contain information regarding the September 11, 2012 attacks on the US diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya, as well as the January 2013 hostage crisis in In Amenas, Algeria.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)So, her private server was not known to anyone outside of Clinton's inner circle---until a hacker discovered this server and then made public four memos that Sidney Blumenthal sent to HRC?
Anyone else know this all along?
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Now I'm wondering which news outlets got this info.
jillan
(39,451 posts)using a private server rather than a govt server is because it had a lesser chance of getting hacked?
Did she say that or was that a talking point from her campaign?
I honestly don't know. Until recently I didn't give a damn about those emails, but now - it kinda looks like maybe we should.
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)And Blumenthals email was. That is where they found Hillary's email address, which indicated it was a private, not government email address.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)He sent/received classified data to/from her, and he has no security clearance.
http://gawker.com/5991563/hacked-emails-show-hillary-clinton-was-receiving-advice-at-a-private-email-account-from-banned-obama-hating-former-staffer
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)She sure shows either a lack of judgement or incredible arrogance--or both.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Very fucked up. But she's "presidential".
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)And none of the emails on Hillary's server were marked classified at the time she received/sent them.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Plus they found emails that contained cut & pasted top secret material. That excuse is weak.
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)Par for the course.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)This is no "indictment looming" nor has anyone determined Clinton ordered "secret data sent w/manipulation."
But man you have the right wing talking points down. Who needs Red State when there's DU?
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)1) Clinton herself in an email instructed an aide to remove the classified header and send via an unsecured channel.
2) Clinton's emails contained top secret data that had been cut and pasted into emails.
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)Boy are you in for a surprise.
pugetres
(507 posts)was a totally separate issue that occurred *after* the Hillary email scandal started. It is best not to conflate the two.
And, she did receive and send classified info. She even created some classified info using her personal email.
Autumn
(45,106 posts)he sent/received e mail from her?
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Autumn
(45,106 posts)Interesting.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Here's a piece from the Observer on why this investigation matters:
Why Hillarys EmailGate Matters
In casually disregarding basic security, Secretary Clinton harmed our country and helped our adversaries
http://observer.com/2016/01/why-hillarys-emailgate-matters/
for those anxious to impugn the source:
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)If you say the logs then you'd be mistaken.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)Doesn't fit with the "no security risk involved in using a private server" narrative from Hillary and the Corporate Media.
yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)Kicked and recced
dana_b
(11,546 posts)and holy hell... I had no idea that she had been hacked either. This is worse than I thought.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)any hack occured.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)He turned over the security logs to the FBI and told them (under threat of penalty for perjury?) that the logs were clean. While not definitive, the logs provide a good, first cut indication of the server's status.
So yes he was the source, but the information in the press seems to have some vetting by the FBI.
But I do get your point that his role is potentially very significant.
I know a lot of people here have worked with classified information so the general sense of what it's like is well known. I was in the loop for classified military intelligence information during the Iran hostage crisis. I was stationed overseas and the base had, in my last year there, turned on their military broadcast TV station.
I swear this is completely true.
It was the first time I'd seen US TV news coverage in several years and the first time I'd seen it under the influence of Turner's CNN. Anyway, it's the middle of crisis and I see I'm reading largely the same information in the classified intel as I'm watching on the TV. And it wasn't selective, either. You know how Breaking News is flashed? It was that kind of stuff just captured and spread through a system that was just secretive by nature. Think about the quantity too, at that time it was a lot of paper. Our paper shredder was the size of several dumpsters stacked up.
I guess what I'm saying is that you can, in fact, deal in two simultaneously operating spheres and the same information will legitimately be treated in completely different ways regarding its classified nature. My speculation is that she was very involved politically and professionally in the news cycle (just like we do here) but somewhere in the system someone was - then or later - tagging it as classified for some reason Clinton wouldn't have necessarily known anything about.
Anyway, that's what I hear when I hear her say it wasn't labeled classified.
Imagine if all of either of our writings on DU were examined against all the classified (and I really can't stress how much of everyday news reporting gets classified in some way) information in the system. I'd bet we'd both have more than she did because she would have been aware of the general flow of what was most sensitive and taken normal precautions when approaching boundaries.
I'm as Bernie as it gets, but I don't think the issue is criminal. I still don't think she speaks for me though. Not even a little bit.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)The question now is what are they going to do about it.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)...in my factually correct accounting of TV news airing undeniably "classified" information, were the news outlets guilty of mishandling classified information? If you hang your hat on freedom of the press in order to say "no" then what about people who were talking about the news on the street? Were they guilty of some sort of breach?
Of course they weren't because common sense tells you that the classification of information isn't a neat tidy affair where lines are drawn with clarity and precision.
Now maybe she did do something that isn't apparent in the available information. I think Hillary is very arrogant and that can certainly lead to the kind of judgement where a breach of security is opened. So I'm not prepared to exonerate her. I also don't like it at all that she is running without having cleared this up in an administrative fashion before the campaign started - she clearly is placing herself above the nation and the party. We see the same type of attitude in the $21M in speaking fees (read legal bribery) that she took knowing she was going to run for office.
But from what I can see of the server issue, there doesn't appear to be a crime involved.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)She instructed an aide to remove classified headers and send via unsecure channels. That one's a doozy. She is instructing an aide to commit a federal crime.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)I see how you might think it's true, but the fact that something is classified isn't the end all be all of decision making.
Not knowing the specific circumstance I'll manufacture an example of how mission needs are always part of the judgement process.
Since this is State, let's say you are in possession of classified information that is crucial for Secretary Kerry in his negotiations with Iran and the nuclear enrichment deal. The information indicates that the Iranians have a site that no one has heretofore been aware of. You are in a location where there are no secure comm facilities.
What do you do?
You weigh the potential for harm that the public revelation of that classified information might cause against the potential for harm if Sec. Kerry doesn't receive it in a timely fashion.
If you decide that notification is most important, you then seek the most secure method of transmission that IS available - an nondescript email header is one thing you might do. So to me with 8 years of operational use of material classified at all levels, that is an indication that what was taking place was in accordance with this type of scenario.
That doesn't mean the Republicans won't have a field day with it. They are unquestionably going to be 1000X more dedicated to disbelieving a legitimate reason might exist than anyone on DU.
We must have Bernie as our nominee or we are going to get creamed.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)We'll have to agree to disagree on that. However, I am in full agreement that the GOP will tap dance on her face with this stuff if she is the nominee and will almost certainly go for impeachment if she makes it to the White House.
Bernie quite aside from this issue is polling much stronger than she is in head-to-head match-ups and unscathed by scandals, and would be the stronger candidate. We shall see how this plays out.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)For our part, my wife's parents have a place in Vancouver for 30+ years that they don't use very often any more. Maybe that will help us with the Canadian immigration authorities should she steal the nomination.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)I visited Vancouver once in the early 1970s. Beautiful place. Cheers.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)As an aside, Guccifer also hacked GWB's computer and stole a picture of his self portrait in the bathroom. Here's his Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guccifer#cite_note-tsg2-8
This is all getting very interesting. Especially the timing.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)As far as omitting data in their article, it doesn't seem necessary to omit that part.
Unless, they paid her money and expect something in return later on.
Optimism
(142 posts)Just damn.
And they want us to believe that China and Russia (and whatever other unsavory regimes) did NOT also hack into her e-mails and eye those classified or secret documents?! And even if for some unbelievable reason they didn't, the fact that this Romanian hacker could (and DID) speaks volumes as to the risk (to national security) that Hillary felt it acceptable to put us in. Incredible.
This my friends is a MAJOR scandal.
And yes, Reuters omitting that specific segment speaks volumes.
Uncle Joe
(58,365 posts)through her private server, Hillary stated that she never sent any e-mails "labeled as classified" but I do recall in some previous articles which stated that her assistants were told to remove the labels because they couldn't go through or something along those lines.
Hillary was parsing her words.
When I heard Hillary use the words I never sent any emails that "were labeled as classified" I couldn't help but think of Bill's phrase "it depends upon what the meaning of the word "is" is.
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)that would be a bombshell
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)This is how nations die.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)But with Sanders, we could have a national phoenix - up to and including the Phoenix's legendary power to "BERN" evil in its path.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)a phrase so that it helps them get beyond an uncritical public, slightly less than half of whom have reading skills of non-legal writings that hover at elementary school levels.
Those who grasp the weaseling nature of the power couples' language account for most of the ~60ish percent of Americans who find them untrustworthy. The practice of educating others to the wordplay of the Clintons is self-evident Hillary-hate, doncha know.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)and found the correspondence with Hillary on his computer. But the fact that they're extraditing him at the same time we hear hints of a grand jury, something is definitely up.
... but even if Guccifer got those e-mails from Blumenthal's account, Hillary was responsible for them getting there in the first place! Same results.
This had all best be resolved well before the convention if Dems have any chance of winning the upcoming election. It must most definitely NOT be allowed to drag out and held up until after Hillary sews up the nomination, for then we are all screwed.
This is exactly why Bernie must stay in the race right up until the end. We need an untainted candidate if we somehow hope to beat Trump. Wouldn't it be a beautiful irony after all is said and done, that it is the Super delegates (reading the writing on the wall) who step in at the last minute and give Bernie the votes he needs to be our proud, undamaged nominee!
Maybe Sam Smith unexpectedly winning that Oscar for the Bond song was an omen after all !
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)We've got a hacker from Romania, who hacked very famous people in the United States.
So, he hacked George W. Bush, Colin Powell, Leonardo DiCaprio, Steve Martin and Mariel Hemingway. And Sydney Blumenthal?
Blumenthal is well known in US political circles, but he's not a big star or a political star like his other targets.
Blumenthal strikes me as an oddity among the bunch. Sort of a "One of these things is not like the other" situation.
Hillary Clinton does fit though, as she is very well known and was Secretary of State at the time.
Is it possible that she was hacked, but they are covering up that fact?
There is so, so much about this that we do not know.
I'd like to know who was looped in to this server and who was not. I read an article about her server and it was reported that most people at State didn't even have her email address. They communicated with her via her advisers. John Kerry reportedly wasn't able to email her during an emergency situation. Was Obama aware of this private server?
Optimism
(142 posts)Things that make you go ... hmmmmm.
So saying that IF Obama was aware, and did nothing or looked the other way, well I'd assume he wouldn't want that knowledge to come out now and perhaps damage his legacy. Could this explain his possible implicit support of Clinton to be the nominee? Who has the goods on who ... circles within circles ... you have my back, I'll have yours ?!? It becomes so tiresome after a while.
Makes me appreciate even more a straight-shooter like Bernie. This country really needs someone like him as its leader right now.
C'mon MICHIGAN ... keep the momentum ball rolling! Everyone on board ?!
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Bush's sister to gain access to GWB's info and Blumenthal to gain access to Clinton's messages.
yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)kristopher
(29,798 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)That's the kind of reading comprehension and reflection that goes on at DU these days.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]
panader0
(25,816 posts)kristopher
(29,798 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Classified info sitting out there for everybody under the sun.
Indictments are on the way, folks. Decide if you are going to cut off your nose to spite your face in having a Democratic nominee.
Bernie Sanders is well on his way to winning, and all of this coming out couldn't have happened at a better time - at least we won't have a candidate testifying before a grand jury.
Jesus Christ, folks. Why in the hell do you want a candidate that could be, in the midst of the campaign, indicted? That takes up a shit load of time, time where you cannot be campaigning.
Do you just want to hand it over to whatever crazy Republican gets the nomination because our candidate is deeply embroiled in a mess of shit that it interferes with the campaign?
The optics are one problem for our party as a whole, but the logistics of attempting to elect a person that will spend hours under oath?
Has the Democratic Party lost its mind?
vdogg
(1,384 posts)Umm, no he's not. Check the results tonight and on the 15th if you don't believe me. No matter how much you guys hope and wish and pray it was the case, an indictment is no more likely today than it was yesterday ( which is to say, unlikely). You have not uncovered anything the FBI didn't already know. This issue is separate and apart from the email investigation.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)there is nothing funny about this situation, you know. I hope it's nothing, but it is worrisome, and perception is important.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Hillary tries to drag the Democratic party down the drain.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)extraditing the hacker. I didn't even know that is how the information was found. Isn't that exactly why she shouldn't have used a private server? She exposed national security documents to anyone who knows how to hack.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)This wanting to see Hillary disqualified isn't the path anybody on our side should be gleefully rubbing their hands together over.
panader0
(25,816 posts)not after the voting is over. If she is innocent (which I highly doubt), let's get that proved.
If she's guilty, not just from the emails, but from the Clinton Foundation investigation stuff, then let's know now.
If, by chance, she becomes POTUS and then the shit storm breaks, it will pull this country to pieces.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)as much as possible. Because one day he would be in the WH again. Perhaps their plan was to know all they could know at home behind the scenes to enable them to be in a better position to win the Presidency for a second time. He would help her with her agenda. If people do not think Bill is putting words in Hillary's mouth from his own Presidency and campaign I can sell you the WH. If elected Hillary will be teaming with Bill as President. And many people are voting for her because she has a husband who will help her out because he was already President. They feel it is a security measure to have him in the WH.....
SDJay
(1,089 posts)but does this mean that there is now a hacker being extradited and a top aide who has been given immunity by the feds?
I could be wrong on the details, but one thing I have learned over the years is that the DOJ generally does not waste time chasing ghosts, especially with someone so incredibly powerful like HRC. If they felt there was nothing, especially with a Democrat as AG, I have to think that they would've dropped this by now. If this was a POS like Ashcroft I could see this whole process continuing for political reasons. I don't see that here.
Am I right on this? If so, the pieces of the puzzle are coming together.
I really hope that whatever happens happens quickly. It would be a total disaster for this to blow up during the GE. A total fucking disaster.