2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumClinton’s Claims on Auto Industry ‘Not True’....Bernie speaks out.
Clintons Claims on Auto Industry Not TrueWhat Hillary did last night was shameful. What those who refuse to listen to the real truth are doing is equally shameful.
When you care more about winning than telling the truth you hurt our country.
Clinton, who has struggled to downplay her support for job-killing trade deals, used a Sunday night debate in Flint, Michigan, to disingenuously mischaracterize Sanders record on the auto industry. In fact, Sanders voted for the carmaker bailout. He supported a $14 billion aid package which passed the House on Dec. 10, 2008. When that bill ran into a Senate Republican roadblock, the White House turned to a separate Wall Street bailout fund for loans to the auto industry.
In an interview on Monday with WOOD-TV, Sanders called Clintons claim not true and said it was part of a disingenuous attempt to deflect attention from her trade record. It is absolutely untrue to say I voted against helping the automobile industry and workers, Sanders told the Grand Rapids, Michigan, television station.
During a rally at a hockey rink here in Kalamazoo, Sanders also spoke to more than 3,200 supporters about Clintons record on trade and his support for workers in the auto industry. She has supported virtually every one of these disastrous trade agreements which have wreaked havoc, Sanders told the rally. The North American Free Trade Agreement and other business-backed trade deals contributed to the loss of more than 230,000 manufacturing jobs in Michigan since 1994.
To deflect attention from her own record, Sanders said, Clinton went out of her way to mischaracterize his record of support for auto workers. There was one vote in the United States Senate to support the automobile industry and, of course, I voted for it. To say otherwise is simply not telling the truth, he said. I understand that Secretary Clinton wants to deflect attention away from her record supporting trade agreements like NAFTA and normal trade relations with China but she shouldnt do that by mischaracterizing my record. What I did not vote for is the bailout of the crooks on Wall Street whose illegal behavior and greed brought this economy into the worst downturn since the 1930s.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I
am
so
Sick
of
goddamn
lies
and/or
distortions
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Fed up.
Thanks for the kicks.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Much of that is due to the fact that Hillary beat Bernie by huge margins among African American voters.
It doesn't get much better for Bernie. Polls show that Hillary is leading Bernie by large margins in delegate-rich states like Michigan, Ohio, North Carolina, Florida and Illinois. These states vote very soon.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Nothing to brag about.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Then that's your problem not mine.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #27)
LiberalArkie This message was self-deleted by its author.
DhhD
(4,695 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Clarify please.
Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)Many still don't know about Bernie, at least his policies. They have only heard that he is "fringe," "unelectable"...
WE NEED TO KEEP SPREADING THE MESSAGE TO EVERY WEBSITE WE CAN!!!!!!!
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I can't read most facebook posts because I am not a member. So it may be getting coverage there.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)And I post specifically for my black relatives and friends. A lot of people were not happy about how dismissive she was to the latest black activist. My next article will be about her role in the Honduras coup.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)rather than this inane "rah rah go team go" flapdoodle?
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)mountain grammy
(26,644 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Is there a reason you don't care about that?
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)monicaangela
(1,508 posts)This isn't good news.
840high
(17,196 posts)of a liar.? I want what's best for this country and the people. Not what's best for a candidate.
Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #15)
ljm2002 This message was self-deleted by its author.
questionseverything
(9,657 posts)gordyfl
(598 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Fairgo
(1,571 posts)Stands for nothing. Willing to lie about everything. What exactly are you voting for when you vote for such a person?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)"My name is Hillary Clinton and I approved this message."
Just drove from Detroit to Lansing on business. All up and down the dial.
Wish he'd bring up UBS.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Bernie's ads were made earlier and address his help for working people, but did not counter Clinton's newest lie.
Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)Ah yeah I'll support a liar because I love liars.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)...but that's really not saying much.
If you know people in Michigan and Mississippi, please let them know what Anderson Cooper failed to point out.
PS: Welcome to DU, Ivan!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)that the woman who asked the questions about religion attended? Did Hillary recognize or know that woman?
The Constitution specifically bars applying a religious test for any office in our government. Why are questions about faith and religion asked in debates?
I was raised a Methodist, but my last name looks Jewish. It isn't. It is German. I came by it through a complicated set of events. It is the name of a German river.
I applied for a job, and at the end of the interview, the interviewer said to me, "Everybody in this company goes to church." I smiled and said, "That's very nice."
Not being Jewish or some other non-Christian religion, it took years for me to suddenly for no reason realize that the remark about how everybody in that company went to church, was supposed to be a way to find out what religion I was.
These questions about religion and the religious discrimination that they suggest, the discrimination implications that they encourage, should not be asked at debates.
I just wanted to bring this to your attention because you seem to know a lot about news matters and politics.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)More than a few of them are "Gott mit Uns" goosesteppers: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511353779
Thank you for sharing, That job interviewer demonstrates a knowledge of skating the surface. I was born in Puerto Rico, have an Anglo name, and I look Jewish. You should see the adventure.
Here's what we ALL need to learn and remember: Anti-Semites also are anti-African American, Anti-Puerto Rican, Anti-Anything other than what they see in the mirror every day. What Dr. Frantz Fanon, M.D., said:
Negrophobes exist. It is not hatred of the Negro, however, that motivates them; they lack the courage for that, or they have lost it. Hate is not inborn; it has to be constantly cultivated, to be brought into being, in conflict with more or less recognized guilt complexes. Hate demands existence and he who hates has to show his hate in appropriate actions and behavior; in a sense, he has to become hate. That is why Americans have substituted discrimination for lynching. Each to his own side of the street. ― Frantz Fanon, Black Skin, White Masks
amborin
(16,631 posts)hold their nose; no longer
Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)I've trolled this site for years and this time around there isn't going to be any kumbaya session.
amborin
(16,631 posts)agenda which is sufficient in itself to not vote for her
Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)Peregrine Took
(7,417 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)It was a low shot...a torpedo aimed below the waterline.
"Came Through" http://blog.4president.org/2016/2016/03/new-hillary-clinton-2016-radio-ad-came-through.html
Got to say: It was sad to hear.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Still lying.
Fairgo
(1,571 posts)In her element, I think
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)Once in 2004 with Swiftboat crap vs Kerry(which was last stray and I got sick on GOP and left party) and second time was just a few weeks ago when HRC camp smeared Sanders with Swiftboat like bullshit with Sanders Civil Rights Activism. Man if Mahatma Gandhi was running vs HRC she would spin that shit to make him look like a war monger.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Smearing him about civil rights was one of her racist tactics. I was hoping her spinning and twisting wouldn't work this time.
Duval
(4,280 posts)Something scary is happening in the USA.
amborin
(16,631 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Mbrow
(1,090 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)While the truth does not?
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)or
'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - Winston Churchill
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)(see my profile, and here's a link to the subthread for context, and the jury went 1-6 to leave the post alone
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511378115#post42 )
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Paper Roses
(7,474 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)It's how she operates.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511366068
Peregrine Took
(7,417 posts)Doesn't have that Clinton "rip your heart out and eat it in front of you" ability.
LOL I love it when her devoted fans are clutching their pearls over Bernie's perfectly natural responses to get her to stop talking for a second so he can get a word in edgewise.
spyker29
(89 posts)During debate his excuse was wall street would get help too if he voted for it, and he couldn't have that. Guess he needed a day to see what the spin would be.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)ecstatic
(32,727 posts)an untrue statement about his record. If that is the case, he should drop out now. If he is incapable of defending his own record, he is too weak of a candidate for the GE.
Regardless, Hillary didn't lie. Watch the full exchange:
senz
(11,945 posts)Dishonest people can have that effect on honest people.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)He would have if given more time...but the reason he voted no on that bill was because it was a wall street giveaway, and that was the point he was trying to make. That was more important to us, the people, while the other point (addressing the lie) was about his honor...and it was about him, not us.
He's not in this for himself. He's in it for us and this is just another example.
spyker29
(89 posts)He voted against it to keep wall street from getting help, not caring who got shut out. I can understand and respect you or anyone agreeing with that, but that doesn't make her a liar.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)No man, she straight up lied knowing he (with others as a strategy) refused to cooperate with the pure untainted gift to wall st that Clinton wanted in order to save some jobs she just plain didn't give a fuck about.
He voted for more, something that included us, she wanted to only help out her sponsors and those she rents herself out to politically on Wall Street. He cleverly found a way to include the lives of some working people.
Read the OP and get a clue newbie.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)He just could not justify giving so much to wall street to get that money for the auto industry (which was a very small amount compared to what they ended up needing in the end.
He was right about the bank bailout. It was a disaster and the banks made out like bandits. There was so little oversight that nobody knew where the money was going or what it was used for, and if you read wiki on the disaster it turned out to be (like CEO bonuses and not using it to lend, as intended...so many things went wrong with it, Bernie was right to not vote for it. If it hadn't passed, the auto industry bill might have come up again and passed on it's own. We will never know. I suspect it would have, because of the number of potential job losses.
Response to spyker29 (Reply #83)
ljm2002 This message was self-deleted by its author.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)pretty dishonest themselves, ain't they?
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)and that it's on tape and reflects on HER.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,405 posts)Thanks for the thread, madfloridian.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)He's not quick witted enough to deal with foreign heads of state. His age is showing.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)That's what this campaign has become.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)He does.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)Are we supposed to pretend age doesn't exist or matter?
C Moon
(12,221 posts)makes it okay to lie?
Plus, Hillary is no spring chicken.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)There's more than ten years between them and that matters.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)Thanks!
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)xocet
(3,871 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)that is called the Clinton way of extracting a win.
While it is disgusting, it is neither new nor
unexpected.
Logical
(22,457 posts)You know already!
jillan
(39,451 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)I coulda sworn last nite she got all huffy and said to Bernie if you're going to tell the story tell the whole story....
and then she does this.
I feel very confident that his campaign will air ads about the lying very soon. They are smart
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Comes to mind.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)Onlooker
(5,636 posts)Hillary's comments about Sanders and the auto bailout -- half true:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/07/hillary-clinton/michigan-hillary-clinton-says-bernie-sanders-was-a/
Hillary being cozy with Wall Street -- half true.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/02/just-how-cozy-hillary-clinton-wall-street
bvar22
(39,909 posts)The two are not even in the same time zone.
ecstatic
(32,727 posts)for the auto bailout (because of Wall Street, of course). Wish he would show that same tough attitude to gun manufacturers! A lot of lives would be saved!
FailureToCommunicate
(14,020 posts)Also Hillary was fine with the NRA and guns when she ran against Obama:
http://time.com/4101947/hillary-clinton-guns-democrats/
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Bottom line.
SunSeeker
(51,662 posts)He voted for an earlier auto bailout only bill that died because no Republicans would vote for it.
The TARP bill was Detroit's only chance at a bailout and Sanders voted No. That is the bottom line.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)in southern california----lifelong Democrats----will NOT vote for her. A month ago, they said they would hold their
nose and vote for the Dem nominee.
But not any longer. Should it not be Bernie, they will leave it blank, write in Bernie, or Jill Stein.
Vinca
(50,302 posts)Hillary should sit down, take a deep breath and contemplate why her rating for honesty is so low.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)DhhD
(4,695 posts)the rest of the privatization and deregulation that is of the Clinton's machine. And challening Sanders to stop her; Delegates better be paying attention. Republicans are.
jillan
(39,451 posts)But that doesn't matter to some.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)pat_k
(9,313 posts)kick the post on Bernie's thread her:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280138167
AND post any sources where you heard/seen the lie propagated (with contact info if possible), so we can call them on it. If you can, posting on reference post on Bernie thread may be best:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280138167
AND
bernbabe
(370 posts)Something you would expect from the Republicans.
FloriTexan
(838 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)Politifact rated the statement half-true. Granted Politifact is not perfect, but it's way more nuanced than either Clinton or Sanders supporters are giving it credit for. He voted for some, but not other money to be spent on the bailout. He had his reasons for voting no on the first, but the fact is that he did vote no. Likewise, he did in fact vote yes.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I remember here at DU we were totally opposing Tarp....so very surprised to see such condemnation of Bernie for voting against it.
Nightjock
(1,408 posts)and my vote if she is the nominee. I never thought in a million years I would EVER say that.
I expect this type of bold face lie from republicans. I have voted for the Dem nominee every year since 1984.
PLEASE STOP MRS. CLINTON. PLEASE.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)marew
(1,588 posts)her Wall Street buddies got their share of our taxes!
If she is elected a whole bunch of people will have buyers' remorse!
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)JohnnyRingo
(18,640 posts)I was too young for SS and too old to start a new career. I was facing destitution and probably homelessness when Obama took the $84bil from TARP to save the industry.
Please explain again how Bernie saved GM from bankruptcy and saved the jobs and pensions of thousands of auto workers here in NE Ohio. I don't see anything in your post that shows how Bernie helped the Lordstown plant keep making Cruzes beyond 2008.
CdnExtraNational
(105 posts)TARP was signed into law on October 8, 2008 and had no mention of auto industry.
Auto Bailout was passed on December 10, 2008 and failed in the Senate
After inauguration President Obama redirected some of the second tranche of TARP to the auto industry in 2009.
Bernie Sanders never voted against any auto bailout.
Broward
(1,976 posts)Take off the gloves already. He's running out of time. Her and her band of sycophants lie in unison. This is what a large segment of the Dem Party has come to. They are lying, right-wing corporatists that have been complicit in the economic devastation visited upon tens of millions of Americans. Until they're vowed or defeated, the misery will continue.
amborin
(16,631 posts)silenttigersong
(957 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)CdnExtraNational
(105 posts)She gleefully knew she was lying.
She picked her words carefully so she could plausibly deny.
Disgusting!
Time for progressives to start drawing lines in the sand.
Let our enemies know they are standing on the wrong side of history.
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Bernie spends far less time refining his message into clever sound bites. He is so authentic, in the end her deceit and prevarication will win because she has the media and they support her deceit. It's so sad.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)Data.
Bigger problem will it be too late. They vote for her then discover they were duped. At the rate she's going I'm expecting a landslide Republican win. Maybe not as bad as Mondale but close. Provided she wins. If Sanders wins there's a chance we might win. oh I mean the Original Democratic Party. not the DWS party.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)due to NAFTA.
Well, what kind of BULLSHIT is that? Talk about blatant manipulation of history.
Such lies.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Hillary simply told the truth last night. Sanders voted against the auto bailout. Yes he had his reasons, but it doesn't change that fact.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)dougolat
(716 posts)..calling for Congressional Democrats to support in December 2008.
At that time Bernie was calling for restrictions on the use of the auto bail-outs to protect workers and block sending more jobs overseas.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Or else, I would have a brazillion hidden posts, or be banned.
So, I have been on Facebook and Twitter most of the day.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)silenttigersong
(957 posts)Improving Infrastructure(think Flint)bridges,transportation(think climate change)it was a crisis that we could have used and still have secured the jobs that were saved by auto bailout.We should have let the banks fail.
CdnExtraNational
(105 posts)The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008.
The TARP was signed into law before the Dec 10, 2008 vote on the auto bailout and as you can see above says nothing about an auto bailout.
The Republicans did not support the auto bailout.
It wasn't until President Obama was in office that a second tranche of the TARP was directed to the auto bailout.
JGug1
(320 posts)I do not understand why, if he DID vote to bail out the auto companies, why Sanders didn't deny what Clinton said DURING THE DEBATE. There is something a bit weird and I am inclined to suspect that it is Bernie who is spinning his vote rather than Hillary. I suspect that because IF Sanders had actually voted with her to bail out the auto companies, she wold have had to be crazy to have asserted otherwise and conversely, had he voted with her, he would have been nuts to not take her down. Fact checking would have proved him correct and she would have been badly embarrassed.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)However, in January he voted against a bill that helped the banks and saved autos...so he did vote against the bill that acutally saved the auto industry. Bailng out anyone was unpopular, but even assuming Bernie did it for ideological reasons...autos would still be gone now had his view previaled. He did not deny it because it is true.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)I am sick of the trade deal thing too because Secretary Clinton had nothing to do with NAFTA...of course she supported her husband. She has said she is not for TPP by the way. Now Bernie voted against the final auto bill in January. That is undeniable. And had that bill failed, the autos would not have survived until inaugeration day. My hubs works in autos and I watch the entire thing...Americans were weary of bailouts...it was not popular to vote for them...thus Clinton cast a courageous vote. Bernie I would say he voted his heart, but was willing to allow thousands to lose their jobs, and we would have lost an entire industry. That is the truth no matter how Bernie fans carry on.
CdnExtraNational
(105 posts)And the first time it was blocked!
Threats about the end of the economy were used by Paulson and all to get Congress and the Senate to pass TARP.
It was totally undemocratic.
If our representatives had stood their ground the financial bailout could have had some strings attached.
But the Goldman Sachs wing prevailed!