In the 40s, were Jewish neighborhoods of Brooklyn considered "ghetto"?

[grasswire]

Let's remember, Bernie's immigrant family was very poor. They likely lived in a tenement.

So, although he doesn't characterize it that way, he might have lived in a Jewish ghetto.

[alcibiades_mystery]

1. Good Gawd

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Actually that is not good gawd

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 02:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Having grown in a Jewish community I know that the question is not that crazy. Though it would not be called a ghetto. At least not in Mexico. Functionally it is one.

By the way the question was when he realized his own racism. The clip being now shown over and over is out of context media manipulation would never, ever, whatsoever happen though. Like ever.

[haikugal]

6. .

And no one would be taken in by it right?!

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. There is that

But the ignorance of the Jewish community or Antisemitism is well stunning.

It should not be, but it is.

His reference to the holocaust and people with numbers is well familiar to me as well. And that tight Jewish community, with neighborhoods and schools and temples and shops still exists. Not as tight as it once did, well abroad it does

[haikugal]

17. It is here as well, at least in the state Capitol.

I don't know why people are so clueless and yes, it's disturbing. I've met people with number tattoos on their arms. Even the sound of the train whistles sets my teeth on edge and I'm not Jewish.

We ignore history at our peril.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. By the way

Shhh this is a big secret that might actually annoy some folks. You know how many Jews in Mexico City refer to the community due to mostly self imposed isolation from the rest of society? Shh it is internally called a....ghetto.

It has not one thing to do with poverty, or gangs though. I know...shocking. A word might have so many different meanings to different people. This was a perfect example of ignorance as well. Some of it quite willful. But also on how diverse we are as a country.

This occurred to me while having lunch. Will be traveling on Wendesday to the ghetto. My mom is having a minor surgery. Ah...language

[haikugal]

23. Give your Mom our best and I hope her recovery is smooth!

I know she doesn't know anyone here but I'll be thinking of her and your visit to the ghetto...

Mexico City, wow.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Well it is more in line with the European

Exoerience.

[haikugal]

31. It's away...

Enjoy!

[PyaarRevolution]

45. I loved the nod Bernie made to Trump when talking about his Jewish background in the debate.

When asked if he was ashamed of it, as if.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. That was a moment of stunning dog whistle

[PyaarRevolution]

50. My parents had to be told...

Of the Hitler ref. to Trump when Bernie was talking about the Holocaust. I picked up on it immediately, then my dad totally got that.

[karynnj]

2. No he said a (two or three - I don't remember) rent controlled apartment

Not the lower east side tenements - where there is a great tenement museum.

[Human101948]

4. It seems likely that some of Bernie's relatives lived in ghettos...

During the Holocaust, the creation of ghettos was a key step in the Nazi process of separating, persecuting, and ultimately destroying Europe's Jews.
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005059

and then died under the Nazis.

[SummerSnow]

5. There was poverty in every ethnic neighborhood in early NYC.

It was very bad. Sadly some are still bad.

[KoKo]

41. Ghetto was also used to describe poor African American and Latino areas in NYC in the 70's

I lived in NYC in the 70's and poor neighborhoods for POC were called ghetto's probably referring back to the 1920's and 30's in NYC and Chicago when Jews and other immigrants lived in Tenement houses and the term may have come from Europe but was totally Americanized by the 1970's.

There's even an Elvis song from the '70's about living "In the Ghetto."


----------------

Elvis Presley – In The Ghetto Lyrics

As the snow flies
On a cold and gray Chicago mornin'
A poor little baby child is born
In the ghetto
(In the ghetto)

And his mama cries
Cause if there's one thing that she don't need
It's another hungry mouth to feed
In the ghetto
(In the ghetto)

People, don't you understand
The child needs a helping hand
Or he'll grow to be an angry young man some day
Take a look at you and me,
Are we too blind to see,
Do we simply turn our heads

And look the other way
Well the world turns
And a hungry little boy with a runny nose
Plays in the street as the cold wind blows
In the ghetto
(In the ghetto)

And his hunger burns
So he starts to roam the streets at night
And he learns how to steal
And he learns how to fight
In the ghetto
(In the ghetto)

Then one night in desperation
A young man breaks away
He buys a gun, he steals a car,
He tries to run, but he don't get far
And his mama cries
As a crowd gathers 'round an angry young man
Face down on the street with a gun in his hand
In the ghetto
(In the ghetto)

As her young man dies,
On a cold and gray Chicago mornin',
Another little baby child is born
In the ghetto
(In the ghetto)

And his mama cries
Songwriters: MAC DAVIS
In The Ghetto lyrics © IMAGEM U.S. LLC

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/e/elvis+presley/in+the+ghetto_20048735.html

-------------

Uploaded on Apr 11, 2006

elvis in the early 70s!!!!
"Avaible on Special Edition DVD by Warner Bros"

[immoderate]

53. Elvis in his Space Academy Dress Whites.

--imm

[KingFlorez]

7. He screwed up and that is all there is to it

Whatever his intent was, he was wrong and ignorant of how things really are.

[fredamae]

8. Ghetto

"1 : a quarter of a city in which Jews were formerly required to live"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ghetto
The term defines a broad swath of People who are economically and socially disenfranchised.
Bernie grew up in a 3 Room Flat.

[Qutzupalotl]

52. ^^ THIS. ^^

[enlightenment]

9. Immigrant communities

were often called ghettos in the early 20th century and very often referred to Jewish communities. The influx of black citizens into these areas in the late 1920s was well-remarked in Chicago, in part because Jewish residents had "not yet heard of the color line", but they were still largely immigrant and often Jewish conclaves.

I suspect that Bernie was familiar with the phrase in its American usage, if for no other reason than it was commonly used by his parents' generation.

There is a really good book on the historical background and development of the ghetto, written in 1928, called "The Ghetto", by Louis Wirth.
Definitely dated in terminology and attitude, but it explores US perception of the ghetto from a perspective we rarely get since WWII.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Thanks to add to my stack

I know outside the US the word would be another one

[enlightenment]

13. You're welcome. :)

The 1920s language is uncomfortable to our 21st century sensibilities, but it is a seminal work.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. I know

[haikugal]

19. Thank you! nt

[amborin]

11. yes, city of NY history shows there were "ghettos' of Jewish immigrants in many areas,

including parts of the Bronx; they were ghettos because people were trapped there due to poverty and due to discrimination

there has been horrible and ongoing discrim against Jews in this country

we live in Los Angeles and Jews were/are not allowed in the Los Angeles Country Club

Jews are STILL discriminated against in Orange County and other areas...redlining with mortgages, etc.....

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Get out of here

I am constantly told that does not happen to Jews.

[Behind the Aegis]

16. You too?

I am assured it is a thing of the past and we need to stop playing the "Holocaust card" and "anti-Semite card", that's, of course, when I am not using the new, and improved definition of "anti-Semitism" which is apparently 'discrimination against Semites" and "Jews can't be anti-Semites". Perhaps we should be thankful so many non-Jewish people are willing to explain to us what anti-Semitism is and isn't, because surely we wouldn't know.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Well some old whistles are back

With a vengeance in fact. Lucky us, the new with the old

[haikugal]

20. Any one who says that there isn't antisemitism is not being honest. nt

[MineralMan]

22. It may be that you do not know the origin of the word, "ghetto."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto

You might want to read through that, and then consider whether likening Brooklyn to real ghettos is a good idea. I strongly urge you to do that before putting Jewish communities in the United States in that category. Really.

You could also visit this website, to compare the Ghetto in Warsaw, Poland with Brooklyn:

http://www.yadvashem.org/YV/en/exhibitions/warsaw_ghetto_testimonies/index.asp

I think you'll find it informative and enlightening.

[GreatGazoo]

29. to this day there are buildings in NYC that will not accept Jewish tenants

So I think it is safe to assume there were many communities from 1921 through the 1940s that actively excluded Jewish people.

http://therealdeal.com/issues_articles/breaking-the-co-op-barrier/

http://www.nytimes.com/1986/11/02/realestate/when-a-co-op-board-rejects-a-buyer.html?pagewanted=all

[MineralMan]

33. There certainly is antisemitism in the US.

It was once much worse, too. However, if you compare the real ghettos in Europe to the New York neighborhoods where Jewish immigrants settles, you'll see the difference. Truly. I recommend learning more about this.

[Bluenorthwest]

43. 1516 was the year Venice forced the Jews to live in a specific quarter of the city, the word ghetto

is derived from the name of that neighborhood. The use of the term in the US was originally rather provocative as it introduced the idea that such US neighborhood were also intentionally produced and were also part of a larger process with an objective, the eventual objective in Europe having been seen in the Holocaust which was not the origin of the ghetto but the result of it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. The word goes to well before the holocaust

And it is still used by Jews to describe Jewish communities. For example Mexico City

[msanthrope]

24. The ghetto of Brooklyn? Where, pray tell, was the location of said ghetto? nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

32. Bernie Sanders grew up on East 26th Street in the Midwood section of Brooklyn

I'm not going to comment more than that, because there are apparently a lot of experts on this thread.

[msanthrope]

36. Midwood? Midwood? oh my god.....nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. It is not a physical place

I am sorry this is hard to understand. As a Jew this use is not alien at all. It is just different from what you are thinking about

[msanthrope]

47. Tell me about the city I grew up in, Nadin, and mysterious metaphysical ghetto of

Midwood, Brooklyn.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. It is like the one in Mexico City

where the community still refers to itself as living in a ghetto.

It is about a concentration of people and a few other things

Here you go... willing to teach becuase this is important if we are going to understand each other beyond the campaign. I see this as yet another effort to deny self identity, and I find it quite offensive by the way,


http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511436844

[grossproffit]

25. It was a very sad time for Jews in America. They were the victims of bigotry and hate.

[Jester Messiah]

26. The word has come to mean something else.

It was appropriate then, now it isn't. Older folks may revert to the older usage though, just a byproduct of having lived a while.

[YCHDT]

44. That's right, and he recently related the word to blacks and not the anything else. It was bad ..

... wording on Sanders part

[zappaman]

27. SPIN SPIN SPIN!

[BainsBane]

28. The word comes from Europe

and was commonly used to refer to Jewish communities.

ghetto (n.) Look up ghetto at Dictionary.com
1610s, "part of a city in which Jews are compelled to live," especially in Italy, from Italian ghetto "part of a city to which Jews are restricted," of unknown origin. The various theories trace it to: Yiddish get "deed of separation;" a special use of Venetian getto "foundry" (there was one near the site of that city's ghetto in 1516); a clipped form of Egitto "Egypt," from Latin Aegyptus (presumably in memory of the exile); or Italian borghetto "small section of a town" (diminutive of borgo, which is of Germanic origin; see borough). Extended by 1899 to crowded urban quarters of other minority groups (especially blacks in U.S. cities). As an adjective by 1903 (modern slang usage from 1999). Ghetto-blaster "large, portable stereo cassette-player" is from 1982.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ghetto


Has he clarified his remarks from last night? I assumed he misspoke, but I haven't seen a clarification. I would think he would want to clear up any misunderstanding.

[ladjf]

34. The use of the word "ghetto" is well known to all Jews.

It has been used all over the World to describe a densely populated section of people, often Jews, where low income people of the same ethnicity live.

https://ephemeralnewyork.wordpress.com/tag/jewish-ghetto-new-york/

See link about large Jewish ghetto in New York.

[elleng]

35. Sorry, I was too young to know

and my family members who would know have passed. We did not live in ghetto-like circumstances, but many may have.

[Depaysement]

37. Probably not

At the time his neighborhood would probably have been considered working class. The building isn't bad and was probably pretty new at the time. He grew up in the poorer part of Midwood but Midwood has always been a predominantly Jewish neighborhood. "Ghetto" would have too negative a connotation, I think.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Jewish communities to this day

Use the term around the world. I was thinking about it. Mexico City is a good example of that.

[elleng]

40. WAY BACK definition:

The word "ghetto" is an etymological mystery. Is it from the Hebrew get, or bill of divorce? From the Venetian ghèto, or foundry? From the Yiddish gehektes, "enclosed"? From Latin Giudaicetum, for "Jewish"? From the Italian borghetto, "little town"? From the Old French guect, "guard"?

In his etymology column for the Oxford University Press, Anatoly Liberman took a look at each of these possibilities. He considered ever more improbable origins — Latin for "ribbon"? German for "street"? Latin for "to throw"? — before declaring the word a stubborn mystery.

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/04/27/306829915/segregated-from-its-history-how-ghetto-lost-its-meaning

I thought I recalled something about 'foundry,' after visiting Venice, and located it here. Just for info.

[jillan]

49. YES! They were. Here is some info about the conditions immigrants lived in NY.

http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactivities/presentations/immigration/polish6.html

[madaboutharry]

51. He went to Madison High School,

the same high school as my mother. That part of Brooklyn, Sheapshead Bay and the neighborhoods around it were very Jewish back then. Chuck Schumer and Ruth Bader Ginsburg also grew up there and went to Madison High. There are lots of apartment buildings but not what would have been ever considered tenements. That part of Brooklyn has always been nice, even during the 40's and 50's. It's true that people didn't have much and a family might have lived in a one bedroom apartment. Now it's very expensive.

[JunkYardDogg]

54. Ghetto is a word & a concept which NEVER should be forgotten by Jews

From the birth of culture, to the end of humanity, no Jew should ever forget the History of Ghettos, especially the Warsaw Ghetto.
Because of all the numerous Jewish ethnic cleansing episodes throughout history, the concept of ghettos is deeply imbedded in Jewish culture. When a Jew uses that word, like Bernie used it, it is done with the full and complete understanding of the reasons why cultural and ethnic Ghettos exist. Any new age, trendy, politically correct, fashionable term more acceptable does not mean what the term Ghetto means to Jews. Bernie's use of the term was a sign of respect and understanding, not a sign of lameness and being dated.