2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDoes Bernie think $15/hr should be the MAXIMUM wage?
After last night's debate, I have to wonder. After all he voted against the auto bailout that saved good paying union jobs.
He is against trade agreements that help Boeing, Microsoft, Apple and other tech companies, whose average worker makes $80K per year or more.
And he is against the Import/Export bank which helps small business and large business create good paying jobs. He is the only Dem in the senate against it, and sides with the republicans on this issue.
And he has a plan to cut healthcare expenditures from $3 trillion a year to $1.38 trillion a year. He seems not to take notice that 19 million people work in healthcare related industries and that it represents 18% of our GDP. Surely he realizes those kind of cuts would result in massive layoffs and pay cuts.
I'm starting to think Sanders believes $15 per hour should be the MAXIMUM wage. If enacted, his policies would certainly result in a decrease in the median income.
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Orsino
(37,428 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Can you explain that? Because it seems impossible once he does away with all the "evil companies" that create the jobs that pay well.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Companies that refuse to get on board with a living wage can and should be supplanted by organizations that correctly recognize wealth as the product of labor.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Go back to the OP. It's not about the minimum wage. It's about how we have good paying jobs if the policy is that every company that has them is labeled as evil by Bernie.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)"Evil" in your context doesn't have a thing to do with a mythical maximum wage.
But there's no way around what I believe was your real point: jobs that are immoral, such as profiting by paupering people via health-care costs or by poisoning us, need to be phased out in favor of sustainability. I think no one's seriously proposing to wave a magic wand and turn insurance adjustors into highway workers. You would be right to be concerned about the loss of good-paying jobs. We will need plans to replace their incomes.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)nm
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)be rude. 
Armstead
(47,803 posts)It's pretty shocking, but Bernie is, after all, the most dishinest man in politics according to you.
Just in case....
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Not at all surprising though
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)
Avalux
(35,015 posts)
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)
NowSam
(1,252 posts)but hopefully you won't fool anyone.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Please be specific.
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)You weren't. Just a regular drive-by shooting, per usual.
noamnety
(20,234 posts)before qualifying for food stamps.
Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)in all white ghettos in America?
noamnety
(20,234 posts)Pretty sure I heard him say that.
denverbill
(11,489 posts)After all, she supports legalized abortion.
/sarcasm
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)Are you seriously unclear about what the phrase "$15 per hour minimum wage" means?
If Hillary is pro-TPP let her tell us all why. She should run on that: why TPP is good for America.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)The maximum wage proposal applies only to HRC voters.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)This is why I prefer my satire to contain signals that the author is aware of being the punchline in their own work.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)
think
(11,641 posts)Millions of Americans are working for totally inadequate wages. We must ensure that no full-time worker lives in poverty. The current federal minimum wage is starvation pay and must become a living wage. We must increase it to $15 an hour over the next several years.
We must also establish equal pay for women. It’s unconscionable that women earn less than men for performing the same work.
Millions of American employees have been working 50 or 60 hours a week while receiving no overtime pay. That is why Bernie has been encouraging the Obama Administration to ensure that more workers receive overtime pay protection. The Administration’s new rule extending that protection to everyone making less than $947 a week is a step in the right direction. It is a win for our economy and for our workers.
Lastly, we must support and strengthen the labor movement to ensure that workers have a say in their own economic futures. That’s why Bernie has been a strong supporter of the Employee Free Choice Act, which would make it easier for workers to organize and bargain collectively...
More:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/a-living-wage/
Hillary's half truth & blatant deception:
Sanders seemed shocked by the suggestion since the month before he had voted in favor of an auto rescue plan that failed in the Senate and explained that his vote was more about stopping corporate welfare for failed Wall Street financial institutions under the Troubled Asset Relief Program. But the auto bailout was part of TARP and, at the time, then-President-elect Barack Obama urged support for TARP.
Source:
http://www.freep.com/story/news/2016/03/06/clinton-hits-sanders-auto-rescue-vote-flint-debate/81422798/
Hillary voted to bail out corrupt too big to fail banks when they should have been dismantled and bankers prosecuted. Bernie voted for an auto bail out but didn't want to bail out corrupt banks.
Iceland did the right thing and broke up corrupt banks and jailed those responsible for their collapse. The US government instead rewarded corrupt banks by bailing them out and let them get larger while the American people suffered the brunt of their actions:
BY ALAN PYKE OCT 23, 2015 2:33 PM
Nearly all the financiers who headed powerful American firms in the run-up to the 2008 economic crisis remain wealthy, powerful, and free. Not so in Iceland, where jail sentences handed out last week bring the number of bankers imprisoned over the meltdown to 26.
Combined, the bankers will spend 74 years behind bars. While critics of such stringent treatment of the business community often warn that cracking down on finance hurts the economy, Iceland’s experience has shown it’s possible to pursue corporate accountability and broad growth at the same time.
The American form of justice for banking titans has been rather less robust. Prosecutions for all white-collar crime are at a 20-year low. Criminal prosecutions of corporations dropped 29 percent from 2004 to 2014.
Instead of trying to make cases in court, the Department of Justice (DOJ) has sought settlements in a long list of cases tied back to the crisis and its fallout. Most did not require the company that bought its way out of prosecution to admit wrongdoing or even acknowledge the validity of the facts alleged by government investigators....
Read More:
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/10/23/3715775/iceland-jails-bankers-and-survives/
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)But for some reason we still love him. Go figure. We must be crazy!
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)
Vinca
(50,301 posts)If your candidate needs help, make shit up. It's the Clinton way.
Biggs McGee
(18 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Biggs McGee
(18 posts)
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)If you disagree on the issues, talk about that.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Response to MaggieD (Original post)
PoliticAverse This message was self-deleted by its author.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Response to MaggieD (Reply #45)
PoliticAverse This message was self-deleted by its author.
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)Oh we're coming for your house, too.
rurallib
(62,434 posts)do you actually think this will help Hillary in some way?
glowing
(12,233 posts)re-evaluate "wealth" and share it in a responsible global initiative that allows everyone to have access to health care, education, food nutrition, stable homes, and stable governments, and also initiate the ingrained genetics of competition, initiative, and advancement of the human species?
We have an economy based on supply and demand. Currently, cheaper and faster is taken over quality and durability, but that's mainly because it's all that's offered and affordable for most people. The reality is that we live in a world with finite resources and an economy that pretends we have unlimited resources to squander. And we aren't doing things that would help our environment due to corporate greed and Wall St demands (like going green, using sustainable farming practices while also trying to get younger generations into sustainable husbandry practices and the financial support/ land space to do it in). We keep subsidies on things like corn, soybean... Which becomes filler and isn't healthy for mass consumption like we have it today. And then there is the issue with time. We have one life to live, we have too busy of lives. Why aren't we able to work 30hr work weeks (at a decent living wage), have paid vacation time, have paid maternity/ paternity time off, have affordable health care access? There is NO reason to me! Also, the new push for our kids is to have currculum that is based on the "real world"... My son doesn't write fanciful short stories in a creative fashion, he creates advertisements for fake businesses (why not the two together)... Why do we make the arts and the creative people who make wonder and excitement into starving/ sacrificial lambs for their crafts? In the days of the Depression, the govt funded murals, roving actors to put on plays in small towns all over America...
It's past time we stop thinking Capitalism (in its current form) is conducive to current living standards for 7billion people. I guess with everyone wanting to take away liberal arts from schools elementary to collegiate level, philosophizing addressing the current problems with our economic and political atmosphere has gone the way of the dinosaurs.
Bernie has good ideas to get we the people into a more viable driving seat, however, it's not the ultimate solution to humanities current trajectory toward its own demise...
But continuing on the billionaire club path will be sure to get us their faster.
KPN
(15,649 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)At least you are not talking about fingers. But no, that is not what he is talking about. Unless you can have a good MC lifestyle on that.
dchill
(38,516 posts)to go to Mexico - and other low paying places. But you know that, don't you? Of course you do.
Does Hillary pay you $12 or $15 per hour?
Without the auto bailout ALL of those companies except Ford would have gone bankrupt. No jobs.
dchill
(38,516 posts)CdnExtraNational
(105 posts)No trade agreement that she didn't like.
Oh I forgot she was for it before she was against it.
Or not.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)If we bash all the corporations that provide them by claiming they are evil.
It's a total disconnect of logic. Bernie and his supporters hate Microsoft, Boeing, Apple, Automakers, and on and on. But you neglect to understand that they provide some of the best paying jobs in the country. Their workers make about $80K per year on average.
Then you apparently want massive layoffs and pay cuts to trim healthcare expenditures by $1.6 TRILLION a year. So there goes more good paying jobs.
So it's a bit schizophrenic, isn't it? You want people to have good paying jobs. How, given the above?
Bueller? Bueller?
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)Because that's the only possible explanation I can think of for asking a question that stupid.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)First, Sanders voted for the auto bailout, so there is that.
Second, he is against trade agreements that result in US jobs being outsourced. Most labor unions have mixed feelings about such agreements, depending on the details, the manufacturing sector, etc. Yes, such agreement help companies, often by allowing the companies to lay off US workers and hire cheaper workers in other countries.
The import export bank is another mixed blessing, two edged sword, etc. Yes, they help US companies export to foreign markets, but they also help US companies build factories outside the US, etc. Is it a net positive, or a net negative? I don't know.
Yes, reducing health care spending would involve lower wages for certain workers, among whom are insurance company executives, hospital group administrators, investors who specialize in trading health care securities, etc. They would have to scrape by on $200k a year, or they might find themselves out of a job altogether. Depends on how close to true single payer we might get.
Would the median income drop? Once again, it depends on the details. It might be more difficult for big shots in the health care sector to pay themselves $500k a year and get another $500k bonus every year for laying off nurses. Plus, hiring more nurses, technicians, etc. who make $50k to $150k would push the median income figure down a little bit. Is that a bad thing? I doubt it. More people would have decent jobs, and enjoy a decent life, buy houses and cars, etc. and that's a good thing.
WDIM
(1,662 posts)They don't care about the US except as a place that allows them to lie and price gouge customers for inferior often defective products that are made to break and be disposable.
We shouldnt have bailed out billionaire automakers when have they ever bailed out their customers that fall on hard times? When have they ever bailed out employees when they ship their jobs overseas?
Free trade starting with NAFTA has lowered pay and shipped the good jobs overseas.
The entire system is rigged to pump wealth to the people that dont need it and take wealth from the people that do.
Any candidate that is willing to start taking back our wealth from the corrupt elite has my full support.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)
