2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWow, Bernie did terrible at the debate
I was actually stunned at how bad he was. In tone, in gaffes, in avoiding the questions - in just about everyway possible. Maybe he figures he's got nothing to lose at this point, so he might as well let lose the real Bernie. And make no mistake - that was the REAL Bernie.
Here's a good review that sums it up (yes, from a Clinton source, but a collection of quotes and comments by pundits and media). http://correctrecord.org/bad-night-for-bernie/
Bad night for Bernie is putting it mildly. IMO.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)The polls disagree. Strongly.
85-12 seems to be the average IN FAVOR OF BERNIE.
Why not take your lies and spin to your protected little group? Facts (or their absence) don't seem to matter there.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Yeah, we've seen how accurate those are, haven't we?
But seriously, how can ANYONE have watched that debate and not come to the conclusion that he totally blew it?
LiberalLovinLug
(14,176 posts)so according to your logic, why should anyone give anything you say any credit at all?
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)How silly. And you ALL have seen how inaccurate they turned out to be. You don't have to be a voter, and adult, a citizen of the US, and you can clear your cookies and vote 175 times in most of them. It is beyond silly to tout them, and IMO, destroys the credibility of ANYONE who tries to do that.
They are laughable.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,176 posts)1. Look at the huge lead. That would take an exorbitant number of dedicated connivers to push the numbers that far. Sorry, but even if you took off 10% for that kind of activity which is very generous, he's still be walking away with it.
2. So even after previous runaway winning votes for Bernie as the winner in previous debates, and suspecting some shenanegins, still no army of Clintonistas have managed to counter this conspiracy with their own quick fingers? Are they just slow, or tech inept, or what?
The obvious answer is that there are more regular online voters that are for Sanders. That when you are online more, you are better informed, and like DU in general, you will lean towards Bernie once you finally get to know his positions. Relying on the scant coverage on the MSM for Bernie, and them already announcing Hillary's victory, its no wonder the least informed, and least politically engaged, will lean towards the well known, and most touted candidate on the ground.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Yeah, we've seen how accurate those are, haven't we?
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Hillary has become Bernie. I'll vote for the original thank you.
LeFleur1
(1,197 posts)And he waved his hand, pointing his fingers while Hillary was talking. He was very rude, and when he did talk, he just rephrased what Hillary had said with less detail. If he answered first, he attacked, gave his usual none detailed speech and wouldn't quit talking. Then his supporters cheered loud and long at his canned speeches. They cheered loud and long at his summaries of Hillary's ideas, too.
It's a puzzle.
I guess I'm one of the "ANYONE". Once again, Senator Sanders came out on top. He's making it a habit. No wonder that originally, Clinton and her aide DLC leader wanted as few debates as they could finagle.
Nonsense.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)are always telling us to post pro-Hillary comments in the Hillary Group. As if GD is Bernie Underground. Go Hillary!!!
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)I remember telling my wife after the debate that Bernie finally started flexing his muscle and was as sharp as I have ever seen him. Strange.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)Both were proven within to be without merit, but that doesn't seem to put even a minor dent in the enthusiasm of the upvoters.
Let's face it, online "by the numbers" is not a reliable place right now (and never will be.)
StandingInLeftField
(972 posts)is taken as Gospel? Surely you jest...
Dem2
(8,168 posts)I made a comment about online polls.
I will engage your argument and state that pundits are no better and theirs is just another opinion, and we all know what those are worth.
StandingInLeftField
(972 posts)If we're talking about online polls, I agree that they are misleading and can be easily skewed.
If we're talking about weight given to arguments based on opinion, I'll take the collective wisdom over the paid punditry every time.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)This isn't a good strategy IMO.
(funny part being the known lies were fabrications of pundits - guess it just depends on which "side" said pundit is on?)
Gothmog
(145,488 posts)StandingInLeftField
(972 posts)Somehow pundits' opinions now hold more sway than the aggregate opinions of thousands of citizens.
I see, very Hillarian of you.
metroins
(2,550 posts)Would be president if online polls mattered.
TrueDemVA
(250 posts)She came across as amateurish. Attempting to talk over him and dragging out her long answers in order to take time away from him. She reminded me of a high school student trying to drag out a weak essay with fluff. Sure, words are coming out, but not really saying much.
Response to TrueDemVA (Reply #101)
Name removed Message auto-removed
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)then they're weighted and balanced and all scientific like and such
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....estimates to be on DU.
George II
(67,782 posts)ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)think
(11,641 posts)Jarqui
(10,130 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Sample:
Zeke Miller ?@ZekeJMiller: Will Bernie dismissively cutting off Clinton become the new Lazio leaving the podium? The new youre likeable enough? [3/6/16, 8:30 p.m. EDT]
Matt McDermott ?@mattmfm: This is nearly Rick Lazio level of bad for Bernie Sanders. He needs a deep breath. [3/6/16, 8:31 p.m. EDT]
James Hohmann ?@jameshohmann : Bernie Sanders is sounding like a protest candidate tonight. [3/6/16, 8:44 p.m. EDT]
Jeff Zeleny ?@jeffzeleny: Never mind trade. Auto industry far more interesting, with @BernieSanders snapping: Excuse me Im talking. This/close to Lazio moment? [3/6/16, 8:28 p.m. EDT]
Phil Elliott ?@Philip_Elliott : Did Bernie Sanders hire Rick Lazio as his debate coach tonight? Interrupting Hillary Clinton seldom ends well. [3/6/16, 9:00 p.m. EDT]
Domenico Montanaro ?@DomenicoNPR: Excuse me, Im talking! Sanders snaps. Sharpest moment of this campaign on the Dem side. [3/6/16, 8:27 p.m. EDT]
Kasie Hunt @Kasie: A moment that we will remember from this campaign for a long time to come. Excuse me, Im talking! Bernie Sanders says to Hillary Clinton [3/6/16, 8:27 p.m. EDT]
E McMorris-Santoro @EvanMcSan: excuse me i wrote about excuse me im talking (with video!) [3/6/16, 9:27 p.m. EDT]
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix :I think Sanders is making a mistake tonally tonight. [3/6/16, 8:59 p.m. EDT]
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix And the finger pointing! [3/6/16, 8:55 p.m. EDT]
SANDERS ON RACE:
Perry Bacon Jr. @perrybaconjr: We have to end the view that black=ghetto=poor. And that was implied in the comments of a Democratic presidential candidate. (Sanders.) [3/6/16, 9:20 p.m. EDT]
Jonathan Capehart ?@CapehartJ : He knows that all Black people dont live in ghettos, right? [3/6/16, 9:13 p.m. EDT]
Chris Cillizza @TheFix: That Sanders answer on race was a total disaster. Wont matter much because of the dynamic of the race. But, still, total disaster. [3/6/16, 9:33 p.m. EDT]
SalenaZito @SalenaZitoTrib: Pretty sure Bernie Sanders just said white people dont know how to be poor 70% of US poverty is rural/white [3/6/16, 9:15 p.m. EDT]
Joy Reid ?@JoyAnnReid : Of course, many white Americans know exactly what its like to live in the ghetto. Many, including immigrants have, do and did. [3/6/16, 9:19 p.m. EDT]
David Catanese ?@davecatanese I wonder if theyre gonna ask Bernie why hes getting crushed among black voters. Its his Achilles heel. [3/6/16, 9:14 p.m. EDT]
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Kittycat
(10,493 posts)But dismisses online polls or criticism from the everyday voter that may not be supportive, lol.
deacon_sephiroth
(731 posts)KyleTaylorLucas ?@KyleTaylorLucas · 3h3 hours ago
Let's help #BernieSanders win this for us! The corp media blackout and estab Dems getting even more contemptible.
Politics Jim ?@PoliticsJim · 12h12 hours ago
Classic #BernieSanders reaction tonight on fracking... wish he could make it to national election #DemDebate
Adam Greenberg ?@Pragmactivist99 · 14h14 hours ago
No surprise that #BernieSanders is winning this #DemDebate so handily. It's centered around justice. This is what he actually cares about.
Natasha Fatah ?@NatashaFatah · 14h14 hours ago
Woah, woah. #BernieSanders says children shouldn't be poisoned and everyone deserves healthcare? This guy is way too radical. #DemDebate
Fish Creek Monitor ?@Fishcreek1269 · 7m7 minutes ago
Hillary's response to the #fracking Q shows how she is clueless about the process & our experience
Conigonde Gardiner ?@coniinthegarden · 2h2 hours ago
As a woman, I feel @BernieSanders treating @HillaryClinton the same as he would a male opponent is the opposite of sexism
Michael Andre ?@Michael_220 · 3h3 hours ago
I wonder why @HillaryClinton is only winning republican states and @BernieSanders is winning democrat and swing states #DemDebate
Dunia Tozy ?@duniatozy · 4h4 hours ago
If we want women equality we can't as women keep using the 'sexism' card whenever it's advantageous to us #DemDebate
The Sports Whisperer ?@montetjwitter11 · 5h5 hours ago
If this socialism I am all for it. Tired of an unfair plating field. #democraticdebate #DemDebate
Kaydee King ?@KaydeeKing · 10h10 hours ago
HRC interrupted Obama in their debates too & he called her on it. Was he a sexist too?? 🤔 #DemDebate
Internet Palace ?@InternetPalace · 10h10 hours ago
Don't understand how people in the left can vote for @HillaryClinton over @SenSanders. Makes ZERO sense. #DemDebate
Anthony B. ?@PoliticalAnt · 12h12 hours ago
How in the heck did @HillaryClinton get the endorsements of environmental groups when she doesn't even outright oppose fracking? #DemDebate
This Week Verified account ?@ThisWeekABC · 13h13 hours ago
.@BernieSanders takes majority of @twitter conversation surrounding tonight's #DemDebate:
Twitter Government Verified account ?@gov · 13h13 hours ago
Ranked follower growth for Democratic candidates in #DemDebate:
1. @BernieSanders
2. @HillaryClinton
IL 4 Bernie ?@Illinois4Bernie · 13h13 hours ago
Only one candidate beats the the whole GOP. #DemDebate #Bernie2016
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)TY for doing the search and paste leg work on that. Consistent with everything I read last night as well, until the media reports came in, then I just couldn't believe it.
Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)So let me see her Online polls bad but Tweeter is the true measure of extrapolation of data?
Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)be held responsible for the ignorance of others.
5. Hand/finger system : To raise a new question at any point, raise your hand until the chair acknowledges you and adds you to the list. To follow up on an existing question by someone else, raise your finger.
Guidelines for respectful, constructive, and inclusive philosophical discussion Compiled by David Chalmers
http://consc.net/norms.html
"Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix And the finger pointing! "
KPN
(15,649 posts)is a lot like Fox News when it comes to messaging. Shameful.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)By a Bernie supporter...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511430379#post5
Quote:
5. There's actually a more intelligent discussion happening on Fox.
As crazy as that is. A panel fairly pointing out hits and misses of both candidates. MSNBC is completely unwatchable, beyond the bias, there's no substance to the discussion.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Thanks, Bernie, for a miserable evening.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)gwheezie
(3,580 posts)At times he came across as annoying.
Gary 50
(382 posts)Hillary never stopped being annoying. She wouldn't shut up. Ever. Bernie probably got about 40% of the talking time. I was screaming at my TV for her to shut up and give Bernie a chance to respond for a sentence or two before she started talking over him again. Her behavior and demeanor was atrocious.
n/t
peace13
(11,076 posts)..running on the Democratic ticket? If I were to speak of Hillary this way there would be an alert and a vote to silence me. Since 2005 I have never had a comment censored yet two times in two weeks I have been voted down by who, I am not pricey to know. The last vote a jury member used a Clinton talking point as fact to vote against me. After I was locked out the truth came out yet I was still locked out of the conversation. All help in clearing this up for me would be appreciated!
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Hillary is bashed all day,every day here.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Hillary has been called a murderer on these boards, for goodness sake! Then you say Sanders had a bad debate and it's "Why are you allowed to speak that way about a Democratic candidate?"
They can call Hillary a corrupt, bribe-taking murderer, but you can't say Sanders lost a debate!
The myopia is truly beyond belief.
DarthDem
(5,256 posts)Great post, alcibiades. Some of these Bernie supporters around here really need to take a few breaths and think about what they're saying.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)The savage personal attacks against Hillary have been SOP here on DU for many months
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)When Hillary is talking Bernie does not politely wait his turn. He is very animated, wagging his finger furiously, shaking his head, mouthing the word "no" and dancing around. It's very distracting. I guess his supporters will say that never happened as well..
Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)be held responsible for the ignorance of others.
5. Hand/finger system : To raise a new question at any point, raise your hand until the chair acknowledges you and adds you to the list. To follow up on an existing question by someone else, raise your finger.
Guidelines for respectful, constructive, and inclusive philosophical discussion Compiled by David Chalmers
http://consc.net/norms.html
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)His finger does not stop wagging. It's not an occasional thing for him and you kmow it
Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)I am voting for Trump because I think he has are large penis, he said so. That is about as valid reason to argue about a debate as fucking finger wagging. Christ this was a debate centered around how Crony Capitalism has caused DRINK WATER in a 1st world nation to cause damage and death to people. This people should be having 1st world problems not 3rd world. Yet because of people like you the news networks are focusing on finger wagging and "excuse me" I guess Sanders should said "Shut up or I will slap you with my large penis" Then news might pay attention more to him at lest.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)I always hated that one kid in class who waved therir hand frantically and wriggled in their desk seat in hopes the teacher would coall on THEM, yet again. It wasn't their antics that irked me - it was the fact that their concise and correct answers repeatedly made the rest of us look dumb. Yeah - I hate that sorta enthusiasm.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and many innocuous posts about Bernie are hidden.
Zambero
(8,965 posts)Anything else is STRICTLY verboten.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)yardwork
(61,698 posts)Have you read in GD-P lately? You can call Hillary a c-word and it probably won't get hidden. She's been compared to Hitler and Stalin here - not hidden. Somebody advocated hitting her with a 2x4 - not hidden (I don't know if anybody even bothered to alert).
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Gee.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I was stunned by how bad he did. I don't know how anyone who watched it could come to a different conclusion.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)For instance: "No, I do not support fracking. No, I do not take money from the fossil fuel industry."
The greedheads who own and operate Big Oil have played a big role in getting the planet and Democracy to the point of collapse.
Exxon Knew about Climate Change almost 40 years ago
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)UBS is a Swiss bank that is enjoying better days, thanks to the US taxpayer and a number of key US political leaders.
Hillary Helps a Bankand Then It Funnels Millions to the Clintons
The Wall Street Journals eyebrow-raising story of how the presidential candidate and her husband accepted cash from UBS without any regard for the appearance of impropriety that it created.
by CONOR FRIEDERSDORF, The Atlantic, JUL 31, 2015
The Swiss bank UBS is one of the biggest, most powerful financial institutions in the world. As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton intervened to help it out with the IRS. And after that, the Swiss bank paid Bill Clinton $1.5 million for speaking gigs. The Wall Street Journal reported all that and more Thursday in an article that highlights huge conflicts of interest that the Clintons have created in the recent past.
The piece begins by detailing how Clinton helped the global bank.
A few weeks after Hillary Clinton was sworn in as secretary of state in early 2009, she was summoned to Geneva by her Swiss counterpart to discuss an urgent matter. The Internal Revenue Service was suing UBS AG to get the identities of Americans with secret accounts, the newspaper reports. If the case proceeded, Switzerlands largest bank would face an impossible choice: Violate Swiss secrecy laws by handing over the names, or refuse and face criminal charges in U.S. federal court. Within months, Mrs. Clinton announced a tentative legal settlementan unusual intervention by the top U.S. diplomat. UBS ultimately turned over information on 4,450 accounts, a fraction of the 52,000 sought by the IRS.
Then reporters James V. Grimaldi and Rebecca Ballhaus lay out how UBS helped the Clintons. Total donations by UBS to the Clinton Foundation grew from less than $60,000 through 2008 to a cumulative total of about $600,000 by the end of 2014, according to the foundation and the bank, they report. The bank also joined the Clinton Foundation to launch entrepreneurship and inner-city loan programs, through which it lent $32 million. And it paid former president Bill Clinton $1.5 million to participate in a series of question-and-answer sessions with UBS Wealth Management Chief Executive Bob McCann, making UBS his biggest single corporate source of speech income disclosed since he left the White House.
The article adds that there is no evidence of any link between Mrs. Clintons involvement in the case and the banks donations to the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation, or its hiring of Mr. Clinton. Maybe its all a mere coincidence, and when UBS agreed to pay Bill Clinton $1.5 million the relevant decision-maker wasnt even aware of the vast sum his wife may have saved the bank or the power that she will potentially wield after the 2016 presidential election.
SNIP...
As McClatchy noted last month in a more broadly focused article that also mentions UBS, Ten of the worlds biggest financial institutionsincluding UBS, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup and Goldman Sachshave hired Bill Clinton numerous times since 2004 to speak for fees totaling more than $6.4 million. Hillary Clinton also has accepted speaking fees from at least one bank. And along with an 11th bank, the French giant BNP Paribas, the financial goliaths also donated as much as $24.9 million to the Clinton Foundationthe familys global charity set up to tackle causes from the AIDS epidemic in Africa to climate change.
CONTINUED...
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/hillary-helps-a-bankand-then-it-pays-bill-15-million-in-speaking-fees/400067/
About UBS Wealth Management
It's Buy Partisan
After his exit from the US Senate, Phil Gramm found a job at Swiss bank UBS as vice chairman. He later brought on former President Bill Clinton. What a coincidence, they are the two key figures in repealing Glass-Steagal. Since the New Deal it was the financial regulation that protected the US taxpayer from the Wall Street casino. Oh well, what's a $16 trillion bailout among friends?
It's a Buy-Partisan Who's Who:
President William J. Clinton
President George W. Bush Heh heh heh.
Robert J. McCann
James Carville
John V. Miller
Paula D. Polito
Anthony Roth
Mike Ryan
John Savercool
SOURCE: http://financialservicesinc.ubs.com/revitalizingamerica/SenatorPhilGramm.html
One of my attorney chums doesn't like to see his name on any committees, event letterhead or political campaign literature. These folks, it seems to me, are past caring.
Some of why DUers and ALL voters should care about Phil Gramm.
The fact the nation's "news media" isn't really following this story should also be of great concern -- for the 99-percent.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Of course, she didn't mention the auto bailout was part of corrupt Bankster bailout that her husband and Phil Gramm helped bring about by repealing New Deal legislation. Details:
Know your BFEE: Phil Gramm, the Meyer Lansky of the War Party, Set-Up the Biggest Bank Heist Ever.
The Sting
In the best rip-off, the mark never knows that he or she was set up for fleecing.
In the case of the great financial meltdown of 2008, the victim is the U.S. taxpayer.
Going by the lack of analysis in Corporate McPravda, We the People are in for a royal fleecing.
Dont just take my word about the current situation between giant criminality and the politically connected.
[font color="green"][font size="5"]You see, there is evidence of conspiracy. An honest FBI agent warned us in 2004 about the coming financial meltdown and the powers-that-be stiffed him, too.[/font size][/font color]
The storys below. And its not fiction. It is true to life.
The Set-Up
You dont have to be a fan of Paul Newman or Robert Redford to smell a BFEE rat. The oily critters name is Gramm. Phil Gramm. He helped Ronald Reagan push through his trickle-down fiscal policy and later helped de-regulate the nation's once-healthy Saving & Loan industry. We all know how well that worked out: Know your BFEE: They Looted Your Nations S&Ls for Power and Profit.
In 1999, then-super conservative Texas U.S. Senator Gramm helped pass the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act. This law allowed banks to act like investment houses. Using federally-guaranteed savings accounts, banks now could make risky commercial and real-estate loans.
The law shouldve been called the Gramm-Lansky Act. To those who gave a damn, it was obviously a potential disaster. During the bills debate, the specter of a taxpayer bail-out was raised by Sen. Byron Dorgan of North Dakota, warning about what had happened to the deregulated S&Ls.
Gramm wasnt alone on the deregulation bandwagon. The law passed, IIRC, like 89-9. More than a few of my own Democratic faves went along with this deregulation, get-government-off-the-back-of-business law.
Today we have their love child, MOABfor the Mother Of All Bailouts.
The Mark
In a sting, someone has to supply the money to be ripped off. Crooks call that person the mark or target or mope. In the present case, thats the U.S. taxpayer.
Todays financial crisis seems like a re-run of what happened to the Savings & Loans industry in the late 1980s. Well it is a lot like what happened to the S&Ls. Then, as now, its the U.S. taxpayer who gets to pick up the tab for someone elses party.
Dont worry, U.S. taxpayer. Youre getting something (among several things) for your $700 billion. Youre getting all the bad mortgage-based paper on almost all of Wall Street. Id rather have penny stocks, because if there ever was something of negative value its the complicated notes and derivatives based on this mortgage debt.
When it comes to Bush economic policy, left holding the bag are We the People, er, Mopes. Dont worry, it cant get worse. As St. Ronnie would say, Well. Yes. You see, what the bag U.S. taxpayers hold is less than empty. Its filled with bad debt.
The Mastermind
Chief economist amongst these merry band of thieves and traitors was one Phil Gramm (once a conservative Democrat and then an ultraconservative Republican-Taxus). An economist by training and reputation, Gramm was one of the guiding lights of Reaganomics, the cut taxes, domestic spending, and regulations while raising defense-spending to new heights. In sum, it was a fiscal policy to enrich friends especially the kind connected to the BFEE.
Foreclosure Phil
Years before Phil Gramm was a McCain campaign adviser and a lobbyist for a Swiss bank at the center of the housing credit crisis, he pulled a sly maneuver in the Senate that helped create today's subprime meltdown.
David Corn
MotherJones.com
May 28, 2008
Who's to blame for the biggest financial catastrophe of our time? There are plenty of culprits, but one candidate for lead perp is former Sen. Phil Gramm. Eight years ago, as part of a decades-long anti-regulatory crusade, Gramm pulled a sly legislative maneuver that greased the way to the multibillion-dollar subprime meltdown. Yet has Gramm been banished from the corridors of power? Reviled as the villain who bankrupted Middle America? Hardly. Now a well-paid executive at a Swiss bank, Gramm cochairs Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign and advises the Republican candidate on economic matters. He's been mentioned as a possible Treasury secretary should McCain win. That's right: A guy who helped screw up the global financial system could end up in charge of US economic policy. Talk about a market failure.
Gramm's long been a handmaiden to Big Finance. In the 1990s, as chairman of the Senate banking committee, he routinely turned down Securities and Exchange Commission chairman Arthur Levitt's requests for more money to police Wall Street; during this period, the sec's workload shot up 80 percent, but its staff grew only 20 percent. Gramm also opposed an sec rule that would have prohibited accounting firms from getting too close to the companies they auditedat one point, according to Levitt's memoir, he warned the sec chairman that if the commission adopted the rule, its funding would be cut. And in 1999, Gramm pushed through a historic banking deregulation bill that decimated Depression-era firewalls between commercial banks, investment banks, insurance companies, and securities firmssetting off a wave of merger mania.
But Gramm's most cunning coup on behalf of his friends in the financial services industryfriends who gave him millions over his 24-year congressional careercame on December 15, 2000. It was an especially tense time in Washington. Only two days earlier, the Supreme Court had issued its decision on Bush v. Gore. President Bill Clinton and the Republican-controlled Congress were locked in a budget showdown. It was the perfect moment for a wily senator to game the system. As Congress and the White House were hurriedly hammering out a $384-billion omnibus spending bill, Gramm slipped in a 262-page measure called the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. Written with the help of financial industry lobbyists and cosponsored by Senator Richard Lugar (R-Ind.), the chairman of the agriculture committee, the measure had been considered deadeven by Gramm. Few lawmakers had either the opportunity or inclination to read the version of the bill Gramm inserted. "Nobody in either chamber had any knowledge of what was going on or what was in it," says a congressional aide familiar with the bill's history.
It's not exactly like Gramm hid his handiworkfar from it. The balding and bespectacled Texan strode onto the Senate floor to hail the act's inclusion into the must-pass budget package. But only an expert, or a lobbyist, could have followed what Gramm was saying. The act, he declared, would ensure that neither the sec nor the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (cftc) got into the business of regulating newfangled financial products called swapsand would thus "protect financial institutions from overregulation" and "position our financial services industries to be world leaders into the new century."
Subprime 1-2-3
Don't understand credit default swaps? Don't worryneither does Congress. Herewith, a step-by-step outline of the subprime risk betting game. Casey Miner
CONTINUED
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclo...
A fine mind for modern Bushonomics. Kill the middle class. Then, rob from the poor to give to the rich.
The Mentor
Anyone whos ever heard him talk knows that Gramm mustve learned all this stuff from somebody. He could never think it all up on his own. He had to have help. Thats where Meyer Lansky, the man who brought modern finance to the Mafia, comes in.
Money Laundering
Answers.com
EXCERPT...
History
Modern development
The act of "money laundering" was not invented during the Prohibition era in the United States, but many techniques were developed and refined then. Many methods were devised to disguise the origins of money generated by the sale of then-illegal alcoholic beverages. Following Al Capone's 1931 conviction for tax evasion, mobster Meyer Lansky transferred funds from Florida "carpet joints" (small casinos) to accounts overseas. After the 1934 Swiss Banking Act, which created the principle of bank secrecy, Meyer Lansky bought a Swiss bank to which he would transfer his illegal funds through a complex system of shell companies, holding companies, and offshore accounts.(1)
The term "money laundering" does not derive, as is often said, from Al Capone having used laundromats to hide ill-gotten gains. It was Meyer Lansky who perfected money laundering's older brother, "capital flight," transferring his funds to Switzerland and other offshore places. The first reference to the term "money laundering" itself actually appears during the Watergate scandal. US President Richard Nixon's "Committee to Re-elect the President" moved illegal campaign contributions to Mexico, then brought the money back through a company in Miami. It was Britain's Guardian newspaper that coined the term, referring to the process as "laundering." 3)
Process
Money laundering is often described as occurring in three stages: placement, layering, and integration.(3)
Placement: refers to the initial point of entry for funds derived from criminal activities.
Layering: refers to the creation of complex networks of transactions which attempt to obscure the link between the initial entry point, and the end of the laundering cycle.
Integration: refers to the return of funds to the legitimate economy for later extraction.
However, The Anti Money Laundering Network recommends the terms
Hide: to reflect the fact that cash is often introduced to the economy via commercial concerns which may knowingly or not knowingly be part of the laundering scheme, and it is these which ultimately prove to be the interface between the criminal and the financial sector
Move: clearly explains that the money launderer uses transfers, sales and purchase of assets, and changes the shape and size of the lump of money so as to obfuscate the trail between money and crime or money and criminal.
Invest: the criminal spends the money: he/she may invest it in assets, or in his/her lifestyle.
CONTINUED...
http://www.answers.com/topic/money-laundering
The great journalist Lucy Komisar has shone a big light on the subject:
Offshore Banking
The U.S.A.s Secret Threat
Lucy Komisar
The Blacklisted Journalist
June 1, 2003
EXCERPT
In 1932, mobster Meyer Lansky took money from New Orleans slot machines and shifted it to accounts overseas. The Swiss secrecy law two years later assured him of G-man-proof banking. Later, he bought a Swiss bank and for years deposited his Havana casino take in Miami accounts, then wired the funds to Switzerland via a network of shell and holding companies and offshore accounts, some of them in banks whose officials knew very well they were working for criminals. By the 1950s, Lansky was using the system for cash from the heroin trade.
Today, offshore is where most of the world's drug money is laundered, estimated at up to $500 billion a year, more than the total income of the world's poorest 20 percent. Add the proceeds of tax evasion and the figure skyrockets to $1 trillion. Another few hundred billion come from fraud and corruption.
Lansky laundered money so he could pay taxes and legitimate his spoils. About half the users of offshore have opposite goals. As hotel owner and tax cheat Leona Helmsley said---according to her former housekeeper during Helmsley's trial for tax evasion---"Only the little people pay taxes." Rich individuals and corporations avoid taxes through complex, accountant-aided schemes that routinely use offshore accounts and companies to hide income and manufacture deductions.
The impact is massive. The IRS estimates that taxpayers fail to pay in excess of $100 billion in taxes annually due on income from legal sources. The General Accounting Office says that American wage-earners report 97 percent of their wages, while self-employed persons report just 11 percent of theirs. Each year between 1989 and 1995, a majority of corporations, both foreign- and U.S.-controlled, paid no U.S. income tax. European governments are fighting the same problem. The situation is even worse in developing countries.
The issue surfaces in the press when an accounting scam is so outrageous that it strains credulity. Take the case of Stanley Works, which announced a "move" of its headquarters-on paper-from New Britain, Connecticut, to Bermuda and of its imaginary management to Barbados. Though its building and staff would actually stay put, manufacturing hammers and wrenches, Stanley Works would no longer pay taxes on profits from international trade. The Securities and Exchange Commission, run by Harvey Pitt---an attorney who for more than twenty years represented the top accounting and Wall Street firms he was regulating---accepted the pretense as legal.
"The whole business is a sham," fumed New York District Attorney Robert Morgenthau, who more than any other U.S. law enforcer has attacked the offshore system. "The headquarters will be in a country where that company is not permitted to do business. They're saying a company is managed in Barbados when there's one meeting there a year. In the prospectus, they say legally controlled and managed in Barbados. If they took out the word legally, it would be a fraud. But Barbadian law says it's legal, so it's legal." The conceit apparently also persuaded the Securities and Exchange Commission.
CONTINUED
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column92e.html
Socialize the risk for Wall Street. Privatize the loss to Uncle Sams nieces and nephews. Congratulations, Dear Reader! Now you know as much as Phil Gramm.
The Diversion
Still, a global financial meltdown sounds like something bad. Making things worse, were hearing that Uncle Sam is broke! Flat busted. Tapped out.
Thats odd, though. We the People see the Treasury being emptied with tax breaks for the wealthy and checks to the companies they own that make money off of war. Want to know how to make a buck these days? Invest in the likes of Halliburton and Northrup Grumman. Anything in the warmongering business connected to Bush and his cronies will weather the downturn or depression.
The Wall Street Journal -- a paper owned and operated by Fox News head, Rupert Murdoch was very quick to promote the crisis, as DUer JustPlainKathy observed. The paper was even faster to pounce on a solution: Whats needed is a safety net for banks. And quick as a wink, they found the answer!
Only the U.S. taxpayer has the wherewithal to prevent the collapse of the global financial system -- a global economic meltdown that would freeze up credit and investment and expansion and prosperity and a return to the Great Depression. Who can be against that?
Oh. Kay. Sounds about right Rupert the Alien agreeing with what Leona Helmsley said: Only the little people pay taxes.
Gramm and McCain also are in favor of privatization. How nice is that?
The Getaway
George Walker Bush and his right-wing pals feel they can get away with this, their latest rip-off the American taxpayers. Who can blame them? When compared to their clear record of incompetence, lies, fraud, theft, mass-murder, warmongering and treason, whats a few trillion dollar rip-off?
Still, it's weird how they act.
They must really think theyll be welcomed with open arms in Paraguay and Dubai and Switzerland.
Going by the welcome the world gave the Shah of Iran, theyre in for a big surprise.
The FBI Guy
Dont say we werent warned. An intrepid FBI agent with something sorely lacking in the rest of the Bush administration, integrity, blew the whistle on the bank thing
FBI saw threat of mortgage crisis
A top official warned of widening loan fraud in 2004, but the agency focused its resources elsewhere.
By Richard B. Schmitt
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
August 25, 2008
WASHINGTON Long before the mortgage crisis began rocking Main Street and Wall Street, a top FBI official made a chilling, if little-noticed, prediction: The booming mortgage business, fueled by low interest rates and soaring home values, was starting to attract shady operators and billions in losses were possible.
"It has the potential to be an epidemic," Chris Swecker, the FBI official in charge of criminal investigations, told reporters in September 2004. But, he added reassuringly, the FBI was on the case. "We think we can prevent a problem that could have as much impact as the S&L crisis," he said.
Today, the damage from the global mortgage meltdown has more than matched that of the savings-and-loan bailouts of the 1980s and early 1990s. By some estimates, it has made that costly debacle look like chump change. But it's also clear that the FBI failed to avert a problem it had accurately forecast.
Banks and brokerages have written down more than $300 billion of mortgage-backed securities and other risky investments in the last year or so as homeowner defaults leaped and weakness in the real estate market spread.
SNIP
Most observers have declared the mess a gross failure of regulation. To be sure, in the run-up to the crisis, market-oriented federal regulators bragged about their hands-off treatment of banks and other savings institutions and their executives. But it wasn't just regulators who were looking the other way. The FBI and its parent agency, the Justice Department, are supposed to act as the cops on the beat for potentially illegal activities by bankers and others. But they were focused on national security and other priorities, and paid scant attention to white-collar crimes that may have contributed to the lending and securities debacle.
Now that the problems are out in the open, the government's response strikes some veteran regulators as too little, too late.
Swecker, who retired from the FBI in 2006, declined to comment for this article.
But sources familiar with the FBI budget process, who were not authorized to speak publicly about the growing fraud problem, say that he and other FBI criminal investigators sought additional assistance to take on the mortgage scoundrels.
They ended up with fewer resources, rather than more.
CONTINUED
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-mortgagefraud25-2008aug25,0,6946937.story
We were warned and nothing happened.
Repeat: And nothing happened.
They must think We the People are really stupid. Are we supposed to believe that all that $700 billion in bad debt just happened? Where did all that money go? Who got all the money?
Meyer Lansky moved the Mafias money from the Cuban casinos to Switzerland. He did so by buying a bank in Miami. Phil Gramm seems to have done the same thing as vice-chairman of UBS, except the amounts are in the billions.
Who cares? Hes almost gone? Nope. That money still exists somewhere. I have a pretty good idea of where it might be. And George Bush and his cronies are poised to get away with a whole lot of loot.
Who Should Pay for the Bailout
If you are fortunate enough to be one, good luck American taxpayer! Youre in for a royal fleecing. Once the interest is figured into the bailout, were looking at a couple of trill.
[font color="purple"]The people who should pay for the bailout arent the American people. That distinction should go to the crooks who stole it -- friends of Gramm like John McCain and George Bush and the rest of the Raygunomix crowd of snake-oil salesmen. For them, the Bush administration -- and a good chunk of time since Ronald Reagan -- has not been a disaster. Its been a cash cow.[/font color]
The above was posted on DU on Sept. 21, 2008. (Check out the responses, lots of info from DUers.) What's changed since then? Nothing near what I'd hoped for, certainly: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4055207
KPN
(15,649 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Considering you're a Bernie supporter and all.
Response to Dawgs (Reply #13)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Zeke Miller ?@ZekeJMiller: Will Bernie dismissively cutting off Clinton become the new Lazio leaving the podium? The new youre likeable enough? [3/6/16, 8:30 p.m. EDT]
Matt McDermott ?@mattmfm: This is nearly Rick Lazio level of bad for Bernie Sanders. He needs a deep breath. [3/6/16, 8:31 p.m. EDT]
James Hohmann ?@jameshohmann : Bernie Sanders is sounding like a protest candidate tonight. [3/6/16, 8:44 p.m. EDT]
Jeff Zeleny ?@jeffzeleny: Never mind trade. Auto industry far more interesting, with @BernieSanders snapping: Excuse me Im talking. This/close to Lazio moment? [3/6/16, 8:28 p.m. EDT]
Phil Elliott ?@Philip_Elliott : Did Bernie Sanders hire Rick Lazio as his debate coach tonight? Interrupting Hillary Clinton seldom ends well. [3/6/16, 9:00 p.m. EDT]
Domenico Montanaro ?@DomenicoNPR: Excuse me, Im talking! Sanders snaps. Sharpest moment of this campaign on the Dem side. [3/6/16, 8:27 p.m. EDT]
Kasie Hunt @Kasie: A moment that we will remember from this campaign for a long time to come. Excuse me, Im talking! Bernie Sanders says to Hillary Clinton [3/6/16, 8:27 p.m. EDT]
E McMorris-Santoro @EvanMcSan: excuse me i wrote about excuse me im talking (with video!) [3/6/16, 9:27 p.m. EDT]
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix :I think Sanders is making a mistake tonally tonight. [3/6/16, 8:59 p.m. EDT]
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix And the finger pointing! [3/6/16, 8:55 p.m. EDT]
SANDERS ON RACE:
Perry Bacon Jr. @perrybaconjr: We have to end the view that black=ghetto=poor. And that was implied in the comments of a Democratic presidential candidate. (Sanders.) [3/6/16, 9:20 p.m. EDT]
Jonathan Capehart ?@CapehartJ : He knows that all Black people dont live in ghettos, right? [3/6/16, 9:13 p.m. EDT]
Chris Cillizza @TheFix: That Sanders answer on race was a total disaster. Wont matter much because of the dynamic of the race. But, still, total disaster. [3/6/16, 9:33 p.m. EDT]
SalenaZito @SalenaZitoTrib: Pretty sure Bernie Sanders just said white people dont know how to be poor 70% of US poverty is rural/white [3/6/16, 9:15 p.m. EDT]
Joy Reid ?@JoyAnnReid : Of course, many white Americans know exactly what its like to live in the ghetto. Many, including immigrants have, do and did. [3/6/16, 9:19 p.m. EDT]
David Catanese ?@davecatanese I wonder if theyre gonna ask Bernie why hes getting crushed among black voters. Its his Achilles heel. [3/6/16, 9:14 p.m. EDT]
deacon_sephiroth
(731 posts)KyleTaylorLucas ?@KyleTaylorLucas · 3h3 hours ago
Let's help #BernieSanders win this for us! The corp media blackout and estab Dems getting even more contemptible.
Politics Jim ?@PoliticsJim · 12h12 hours ago
Classic #BernieSanders reaction tonight on fracking... wish he could make it to national election #DemDebate
Adam Greenberg ?@Pragmactivist99 · 14h14 hours ago
No surprise that #BernieSanders is winning this #DemDebate so handily. It's centered around justice. This is what he actually cares about.
Natasha Fatah ?@NatashaFatah · 14h14 hours ago
Woah, woah. #BernieSanders says children shouldn't be poisoned and everyone deserves healthcare? This guy is way too radical. #DemDebate
Fish Creek Monitor ?@Fishcreek1269 · 7m7 minutes ago
Hillary's response to the #fracking Q shows how she is clueless about the process & our experience
Conigonde Gardiner ?@coniinthegarden · 2h2 hours ago
As a woman, I feel @BernieSanders treating @HillaryClinton the same as he would a male opponent is the opposite of sexism
Michael Andre ?@Michael_220 · 3h3 hours ago
I wonder why @HillaryClinton is only winning republican states and @BernieSanders is winning democrat and swing states #DemDebate
Dunia Tozy ?@duniatozy · 4h4 hours ago
If we want women equality we can't as women keep using the 'sexism' card whenever it's advantageous to us #DemDebate
The Sports Whisperer ?@montetjwitter11 · 5h5 hours ago
If this socialism I am all for it. Tired of an unfair plating field. #democraticdebate #DemDebate
Kaydee King ?@KaydeeKing · 10h10 hours ago
HRC interrupted Obama in their debates too & he called her on it. Was he a sexist too?? 🤔 #DemDebate
Internet Palace ?@InternetPalace · 10h10 hours ago
Don't understand how people in the left can vote for @HillaryClinton over @SenSanders. Makes ZERO sense. #DemDebate
Anthony B. ?@PoliticalAnt · 12h12 hours ago
How in the heck did @HillaryClinton get the endorsements of environmental groups when she doesn't even outright oppose fracking? #DemDebate
This Week Verified account ?@ThisWeekABC · 13h13 hours ago
.@BernieSanders takes majority of @twitter conversation surrounding tonight's #DemDebate:
Twitter Government Verified account ?@gov · 13h13 hours ago
Ranked follower growth for Democratic candidates in #DemDebate:
1. @BernieSanders
2. @HillaryClinton
IL 4 Bernie ?@Illinois4Bernie · 13h13 hours ago
Only one candidate beats the the whole GOP. #DemDebate #Bernie2016
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Okay. LOL!
deacon_sephiroth
(731 posts)I notice you get the point when it's someone else doing it. Argument ad populous is complete nonsense, doubly so on social media. You seemed to lack the ability to see yourself, but at least you can see yourself in others. Cheers.
CdnExtraNational
(105 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)first half but that Bernie picked up and perhaps did better in the second half. She talked her usual detail and nuance, he kept hammering his main points in simple direct terms.
You know, we're all adults. I didn't watch it, didn't see the "Excuse me, I'm talking," but the takeaway I'm gathering is, although they both did us proud, Hillary did not allow Bernie, or Bernie did not make happen, the big night he really needed at this point to propel his campaign. In practical terms, that could qualify as terrible enough.
Svafa
(594 posts)corporate donors.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)You'd love it if it were Bernie and be outraged that Hillary was not giving details, putting the worst, most sinister possible spin on it.
Intellectual honesty is a good thing. Heck. Honesty's a good thing. Right?
Svafa
(594 posts)display of Clinton "honesty."
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Svafa
(594 posts)But in any case, it doesn't seem to be a valid comeback since you appear to be implying that today's date of 3/7 is insignificant for some reason, even though the whole point of this thread is to discuss a debate that happened on 3/6.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)negative feelings about Hillary Clinton. Purges can be physical if a problem is bottled up bile for instance or emotional or even intellectual catharsis if the stoppage might be in the brain. A good, purifying religion can be the right direction for many. In any case, if you want to do complete your Hillary dump here before the rules slam shut on it, you'll have to get humping.
Svafa
(594 posts)Thanks for acknowledging that you have no real counter argument to my actual point about the Clintons' "nuance" being the equivalent of talking out of both sides of their mouths.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)should be trusted......
Response to MaggieD (Original post)
cyberpj This message was self-deleted by its author.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)And we know kids like those. Remember the online polls that claimed he was winning in all 50 states? How did those work out for you? His supporters crack me up.
Just FYI - every time you invoke and online poll the credibility goes straight out the window.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Coming from David Brock it means even less.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Zeke Miller ?@ZekeJMiller: Will Bernie dismissively cutting off Clinton become the new Lazio leaving the podium? The new youre likeable enough? [3/6/16, 8:30 p.m. EDT]
Matt McDermott ?@mattmfm: This is nearly Rick Lazio level of bad for Bernie Sanders. He needs a deep breath. [3/6/16, 8:31 p.m. EDT]
James Hohmann ?@jameshohmann : Bernie Sanders is sounding like a protest candidate tonight. [3/6/16, 8:44 p.m. EDT]
Jeff Zeleny ?@jeffzeleny: Never mind trade. Auto industry far more interesting, with @BernieSanders snapping: Excuse me Im talking. This/close to Lazio moment? [3/6/16, 8:28 p.m. EDT]
Phil Elliott ?@Philip_Elliott : Did Bernie Sanders hire Rick Lazio as his debate coach tonight? Interrupting Hillary Clinton seldom ends well. [3/6/16, 9:00 p.m. EDT]
Domenico Montanaro ?@DomenicoNPR: Excuse me, Im talking! Sanders snaps. Sharpest moment of this campaign on the Dem side. [3/6/16, 8:27 p.m. EDT]
Kasie Hunt @Kasie: A moment that we will remember from this campaign for a long time to come. Excuse me, Im talking! Bernie Sanders says to Hillary Clinton [3/6/16, 8:27 p.m. EDT]
E McMorris-Santoro @EvanMcSan: excuse me i wrote about excuse me im talking (with video!) [3/6/16, 9:27 p.m. EDT]
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix :I think Sanders is making a mistake tonally tonight. [3/6/16, 8:59 p.m. EDT]
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix And the finger pointing! [3/6/16, 8:55 p.m. EDT]
SANDERS ON RACE:
Perry Bacon Jr. @perrybaconjr: We have to end the view that black=ghetto=poor. And that was implied in the comments of a Democratic presidential candidate. (Sanders.) [3/6/16, 9:20 p.m. EDT]
Jonathan Capehart ?@CapehartJ : He knows that all Black people dont live in ghettos, right? [3/6/16, 9:13 p.m. EDT]
Chris Cillizza @TheFix: That Sanders answer on race was a total disaster. Wont matter much because of the dynamic of the race. But, still, total disaster. [3/6/16, 9:33 p.m. EDT]
SalenaZito @SalenaZitoTrib: Pretty sure Bernie Sanders just said white people dont know how to be poor 70% of US poverty is rural/white [3/6/16, 9:15 p.m. EDT]
Joy Reid ?@JoyAnnReid : Of course, many white Americans know exactly what its like to live in the ghetto. Many, including immigrants have, do and did. [3/6/16, 9:19 p.m. EDT]
David Catanese ?@davecatanese I wonder if theyre gonna ask Bernie why hes getting crushed among black voters. Its his Achilles heel. [3/6/16, 9:14 p.m. EDT]
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Correct The Record is a strategic research and rapid response team designed to defend Hillary Clinton from baseless attacks.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Are you unable to deal with the fact that Bernie was almost universally panned last night?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And nothing you say changes that fact
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)It's just a collection of pundits stating the obvious. He blew it big time.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)ABOUT
Correct The Record is a strategic research and rapid response team designed to defend Hillary Clinton from baseless attacks.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Is consistently moving the goalposts so far from your original premise as tiring as it is tiresome?
Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #49)
DUbeornot2be This message was self-deleted by its author.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)That's what she does. The other day she accused Sanders of lying when he suggested that there was a list of 130 economists and healthcare experts who endorsed the economic viability of his single payer plan. She said the list did not exist.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511408039
When I produced the list of 134, she shamelessly continued accusing Sanders of having lied.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1409135
Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #27)
Name removed Message auto-removed
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Zeke Miller ?@ZekeJMiller: Will Bernie dismissively cutting off Clinton become the new Lazio leaving the podium? The new youre likeable enough?
Matt McDermott ?@mattmfm: This is nearly Rick Lazio level of bad for Bernie Sanders. He needs a deep breath.
James Hohmann ?@jameshohmann : Bernie Sanders is sounding like a protest candidate tonight.
Jeff Zeleny ?@jeffzeleny: Never mind trade. Auto industry far more interesting, with @BernieSanders snapping: Excuse me Im talking. This/close to Lazio moment?
Phil Elliott ?@Philip_Elliott : Did Bernie Sanders hire Rick Lazio as his debate coach tonight? Interrupting Hillary Clinton seldom ends well.
Domenico Montanaro ?@DomenicoNPR: Excuse me, Im talking! Sanders snaps. Sharpest moment of this campaign on the Dem side.
Kasie Hunt @Kasie: A moment that we will remember from this campaign for a long time to come. Excuse me, Im talking! Bernie Sanders says to Hillary Clinton
E McMorris-Santoro @EvanMcSan: excuse me i wrote about excuse me im talking (with video!)
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix :I think Sanders is making a mistake tonally tonight.
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix And the finger pointing!
SANDERS ON RACE:
Perry Bacon Jr. @perrybaconjr: We have to end the view that black=ghetto=poor. And that was implied in the comments of a Democratic presidential candidate. (Sanders.)
Jonathan Capehart ?@CapehartJ : He knows that all Black people dont live in ghettos, right?
Chris Cillizza @TheFix: That Sanders answer on race was a total disaster. Wont matter much because of the dynamic of the race. But, still, total disaster.
SalenaZito @SalenaZitoTrib: Pretty sure Bernie Sanders just said white people dont know how to be poor 70% of US poverty is rural/white
Joy Reid ?@JoyAnnReid : Of course, many white Americans know exactly what its like to live in the ghetto. Many, including immigrants have, do and did.
David Catanese ?@davecatanese I wonder if theyre gonna ask Bernie why hes getting crushed among black voters. Its his Achilles heel.
Response to MaggieD (Reply #50)
Name removed Message auto-removed
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)It's simply an aggregation of quotes from many media sources.
Zeke Miller ?@ZekeJMiller: Will Bernie dismissively cutting off Clinton become the new Lazio leaving the podium? The new youre likeable enough?
Matt McDermott ?@mattmfm: This is nearly Rick Lazio level of bad for Bernie Sanders. He needs a deep breath.
James Hohmann ?@jameshohmann : Bernie Sanders is sounding like a protest candidate tonight.
Jeff Zeleny ?@jeffzeleny: Never mind trade. Auto industry far more interesting, with @BernieSanders snapping: Excuse me Im talking. This/close to Lazio moment?
Phil Elliott ?@Philip_Elliott : Did Bernie Sanders hire Rick Lazio as his debate coach tonight? Interrupting Hillary Clinton seldom ends well.
Domenico Montanaro ?@DomenicoNPR: Excuse me, Im talking! Sanders snaps. Sharpest moment of this campaign on the Dem side.
Kasie Hunt @Kasie: A moment that we will remember from this campaign for a long time to come. Excuse me, Im talking! Bernie Sanders says to Hillary Clinton
E McMorris-Santoro @EvanMcSan: excuse me i wrote about excuse me im talking (with video!)
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix :I think Sanders is making a mistake tonally tonight.
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix And the finger pointing!
SANDERS ON RACE:
Perry Bacon Jr. @perrybaconjr: We have to end the view that black=ghetto=poor. And that was implied in the comments of a Democratic presidential candidate. (Sanders.)
Jonathan Capehart ?@CapehartJ : He knows that all Black people dont live in ghettos, right?
Chris Cillizza @TheFix: That Sanders answer on race was a total disaster. Wont matter much because of the dynamic of the race. But, still, total disaster.
SalenaZito @SalenaZitoTrib: Pretty sure Bernie Sanders just said white people dont know how to be poor 70% of US poverty is rural/white
Joy Reid ?@JoyAnnReid : Of course, many white Americans know exactly what its like to live in the ghetto. Many, including immigrants have, do and did.
David Catanese ?@davecatanese I wonder if theyre gonna ask Bernie why hes getting crushed among black voters. Its his Achilles heel.
Response to MaggieD (Reply #55)
Name removed Message auto-removed
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Zeke Miller ?@ZekeJMiller: Will Bernie dismissively cutting off Clinton become the new Lazio leaving the podium? The new youre likeable enough?
Matt McDermott ?@mattmfm: This is nearly Rick Lazio level of bad for Bernie Sanders. He needs a deep breath.
James Hohmann ?@jameshohmann : Bernie Sanders is sounding like a protest candidate tonight.
Jeff Zeleny ?@jeffzeleny: Never mind trade. Auto industry far more interesting, with @BernieSanders snapping: Excuse me Im talking. This/close to Lazio moment?
Phil Elliott ?@Philip_Elliott : Did Bernie Sanders hire Rick Lazio as his debate coach tonight? Interrupting Hillary Clinton seldom ends well.
Domenico Montanaro ?@DomenicoNPR: Excuse me, Im talking! Sanders snaps. Sharpest moment of this campaign on the Dem side.
Kasie Hunt @Kasie: A moment that we will remember from this campaign for a long time to come. Excuse me, Im talking! Bernie Sanders says to Hillary Clinton
E McMorris-Santoro @EvanMcSan: excuse me i wrote about excuse me im talking (with video!)
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix :I think Sanders is making a mistake tonally tonight.
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix And the finger pointing!
SANDERS ON RACE:
Perry Bacon Jr. @perrybaconjr: We have to end the view that black=ghetto=poor. And that was implied in the comments of a Democratic presidential candidate. (Sanders.)
Jonathan Capehart ?@CapehartJ : He knows that all Black people dont live in ghettos, right?
Chris Cillizza @TheFix: That Sanders answer on race was a total disaster. Wont matter much because of the dynamic of the race. But, still, total disaster.
SalenaZito @SalenaZitoTrib: Pretty sure Bernie Sanders just said white people dont know how to be poor 70% of US poverty is rural/white
Joy Reid ?@JoyAnnReid : Of course, many white Americans know exactly what its like to live in the ghetto. Many, including immigrants have, do and did.
David Catanese ?@davecatanese I wonder if theyre gonna ask Bernie why hes getting crushed among black voters. Its his Achilles heel.
deacon_sephiroth
(731 posts)KyleTaylorLucas ?@KyleTaylorLucas · 3h3 hours ago
Let's help #BernieSanders win this for us! The corp media blackout and estab Dems getting even more contemptible.
Politics Jim ?@PoliticsJim · 12h12 hours ago
Classic #BernieSanders reaction tonight on fracking... wish he could make it to national election #DemDebate
Adam Greenberg ?@Pragmactivist99 · 14h14 hours ago
No surprise that #BernieSanders is winning this #DemDebate so handily. It's centered around justice. This is what he actually cares about.
Natasha Fatah ?@NatashaFatah · 14h14 hours ago
Woah, woah. #BernieSanders says children shouldn't be poisoned and everyone deserves healthcare? This guy is way too radical. #DemDebate
Fish Creek Monitor ?@Fishcreek1269 · 7m7 minutes ago
Hillary's response to the #fracking Q shows how she is clueless about the process & our experience
Conigonde Gardiner ?@coniinthegarden · 2h2 hours ago
As a woman, I feel @BernieSanders treating @HillaryClinton the same as he would a male opponent is the opposite of sexism
Michael Andre ?@Michael_220 · 3h3 hours ago
I wonder why @HillaryClinton is only winning republican states and @BernieSanders is winning democrat and swing states #DemDebate
Dunia Tozy ?@duniatozy · 4h4 hours ago
If we want women equality we can't as women keep using the 'sexism' card whenever it's advantageous to us #DemDebate
The Sports Whisperer ?@montetjwitter11 · 5h5 hours ago
If this socialism I am all for it. Tired of an unfair plating field. #democraticdebate #DemDebate
Kaydee King ?@KaydeeKing · 10h10 hours ago
HRC interrupted Obama in their debates too & he called her on it. Was he a sexist too?? 🤔 #DemDebate
Internet Palace ?@InternetPalace · 10h10 hours ago
Don't understand how people in the left can vote for @HillaryClinton over @SenSanders. Makes ZERO sense. #DemDebate
Anthony B. ?@PoliticalAnt · 12h12 hours ago
How in the heck did @HillaryClinton get the endorsements of environmental groups when she doesn't even outright oppose fracking? #DemDebate
This Week Verified account ?@ThisWeekABC · 13h13 hours ago
.@BernieSanders takes majority of @twitter conversation surrounding tonight's #DemDebate:
Twitter Government Verified account ?@gov · 13h13 hours ago
Ranked follower growth for Democratic candidates in #DemDebate:
1. @BernieSanders
2. @HillaryClinton
IL 4 Bernie ?@Illinois4Bernie · 13h13 hours ago
Only one candidate beats the the whole GOP. #DemDebate #Bernie2016
deacon_sephiroth
(731 posts)KyleTaylorLucas ?@KyleTaylorLucas · 3h3 hours ago
Let's help #BernieSanders win this for us! The corp media blackout and estab Dems getting even more contemptible.
Politics Jim ?@PoliticsJim · 12h12 hours ago
Classic #BernieSanders reaction tonight on fracking... wish he could make it to national election #DemDebate
Adam Greenberg ?@Pragmactivist99 · 14h14 hours ago
No surprise that #BernieSanders is winning this #DemDebate so handily. It's centered around justice. This is what he actually cares about.
Natasha Fatah ?@NatashaFatah · 14h14 hours ago
Woah, woah. #BernieSanders says children shouldn't be poisoned and everyone deserves healthcare? This guy is way too radical. #DemDebate
Fish Creek Monitor ?@Fishcreek1269 · 7m7 minutes ago
Hillary's response to the #fracking Q shows how she is clueless about the process & our experience
Conigonde Gardiner ?@coniinthegarden · 2h2 hours ago
As a woman, I feel @BernieSanders treating @HillaryClinton the same as he would a male opponent is the opposite of sexism
Michael Andre ?@Michael_220 · 3h3 hours ago
I wonder why @HillaryClinton is only winning republican states and @BernieSanders is winning democrat and swing states #DemDebate
Dunia Tozy ?@duniatozy · 4h4 hours ago
If we want women equality we can't as women keep using the 'sexism' card whenever it's advantageous to us #DemDebate
The Sports Whisperer ?@montetjwitter11 · 5h5 hours ago
If this socialism I am all for it. Tired of an unfair plating field. #democraticdebate #DemDebate
Kaydee King ?@KaydeeKing · 10h10 hours ago
HRC interrupted Obama in their debates too & he called her on it. Was he a sexist too?? 🤔 #DemDebate
Internet Palace ?@InternetPalace · 10h10 hours ago
Don't understand how people in the left can vote for @HillaryClinton over @SenSanders. Makes ZERO sense. #DemDebate
Anthony B. ?@PoliticalAnt · 12h12 hours ago
How in the heck did @HillaryClinton get the endorsements of environmental groups when she doesn't even outright oppose fracking? #DemDebate
This Week Verified account ?@ThisWeekABC · 13h13 hours ago
.@BernieSanders takes majority of @twitter conversation surrounding tonight's #DemDebate:
Twitter Government Verified account ?@gov · 13h13 hours ago
Ranked follower growth for Democratic candidates in #DemDebate:
1. @BernieSanders
2. @HillaryClinton
IL 4 Bernie ?@Illinois4Bernie · 13h13 hours ago
Only one candidate beats the the whole GOP. #DemDebate #Bernie2016
SujiwanKenobee
(290 posts)Especially the Lazio comments. Echo...echo....echo...echo... chamber much?
deacon_sephiroth
(731 posts)KyleTaylorLucas ?@KyleTaylorLucas · 3h3 hours ago
Let's help #BernieSanders win this for us! The corp media blackout and estab Dems getting even more contemptible.
Politics Jim ?@PoliticsJim · 12h12 hours ago
Classic #BernieSanders reaction tonight on fracking... wish he could make it to national election #DemDebate
Adam Greenberg ?@Pragmactivist99 · 14h14 hours ago
No surprise that #BernieSanders is winning this #DemDebate so handily. It's centered around justice. This is what he actually cares about.
Natasha Fatah ?@NatashaFatah · 14h14 hours ago
Woah, woah. #BernieSanders says children shouldn't be poisoned and everyone deserves healthcare? This guy is way too radical. #DemDebate
Fish Creek Monitor ?@Fishcreek1269 · 7m7 minutes ago
Hillary's response to the #fracking Q shows how she is clueless about the process & our experience
Conigonde Gardiner ?@coniinthegarden · 2h2 hours ago
As a woman, I feel @BernieSanders treating @HillaryClinton the same as he would a male opponent is the opposite of sexism
Michael Andre ?@Michael_220 · 3h3 hours ago
I wonder why @HillaryClinton is only winning republican states and @BernieSanders is winning democrat and swing states #DemDebate
Dunia Tozy ?@duniatozy · 4h4 hours ago
If we want women equality we can't as women keep using the 'sexism' card whenever it's advantageous to us #DemDebate
The Sports Whisperer ?@montetjwitter11 · 5h5 hours ago
If this socialism I am all for it. Tired of an unfair plating field. #democraticdebate #DemDebate
Kaydee King ?@KaydeeKing · 10h10 hours ago
HRC interrupted Obama in their debates too & he called her on it. Was he a sexist too?? 🤔 #DemDebate
Internet Palace ?@InternetPalace · 10h10 hours ago
Don't understand how people in the left can vote for @HillaryClinton over @SenSanders. Makes ZERO sense. #DemDebate
Anthony B. ?@PoliticalAnt · 12h12 hours ago
How in the heck did @HillaryClinton get the endorsements of environmental groups when she doesn't even outright oppose fracking? #DemDebate
This Week Verified account ?@ThisWeekABC · 13h13 hours ago
.@BernieSanders takes majority of @twitter conversation surrounding tonight's #DemDebate:
Twitter Government Verified account ?@gov · 13h13 hours ago
Ranked follower growth for Democratic candidates in #DemDebate:
1. @BernieSanders
2. @HillaryClinton
IL 4 Bernie ?@Illinois4Bernie · 13h13 hours ago
Only one candidate beats the the whole GOP. #DemDebate #Bernie2016
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Blus4u
(608 posts)Flamebait and nothing more.
Peace
Response to MaggieD (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)It's an aggregation of comments from media and pundits universally panning his performance. But yeah, if he was my candidate I would probably pretend it was someone else saying that stuff instead of the media in general.
Here is another pan:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/winners-and-losers-from-the-seventh-democratic-presidential-debate/ar-BBqpZqe?ocid=spartandhp
Response to MaggieD (Reply #45)
Name removed Message auto-removed
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Zeke Miller ?@ZekeJMiller: Will Bernie dismissively cutting off Clinton become the new Lazio leaving the podium? The new youre likeable enough?
Matt McDermott ?@mattmfm: This is nearly Rick Lazio level of bad for Bernie Sanders. He needs a deep breath.
James Hohmann ?@jameshohmann : Bernie Sanders is sounding like a protest candidate tonight.
Jeff Zeleny ?@jeffzeleny: Never mind trade. Auto industry far more interesting, with @BernieSanders snapping: Excuse me Im talking. This/close to Lazio moment?
Phil Elliott ?@Philip_Elliott : Did Bernie Sanders hire Rick Lazio as his debate coach tonight? Interrupting Hillary Clinton seldom ends well.
Domenico Montanaro ?@DomenicoNPR: Excuse me, Im talking! Sanders snaps. Sharpest moment of this campaign on the Dem side.
Kasie Hunt @Kasie: A moment that we will remember from this campaign for a long time to come. Excuse me, Im talking! Bernie Sanders says to Hillary Clinton
E McMorris-Santoro @EvanMcSan: excuse me i wrote about excuse me im talking (with video!)
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix :I think Sanders is making a mistake tonally tonight.
Chris Cillizza ?@TheFix And the finger pointing!
SANDERS ON RACE:
Perry Bacon Jr. @perrybaconjr: We have to end the view that black=ghetto=poor. And that was implied in the comments of a Democratic presidential candidate. (Sanders.)
Jonathan Capehart ?@CapehartJ : He knows that all Black people dont live in ghettos, right?
Chris Cillizza @TheFix: That Sanders answer on race was a total disaster. Wont matter much because of the dynamic of the race. But, still, total disaster.
SalenaZito @SalenaZitoTrib: Pretty sure Bernie Sanders just said white people dont know how to be poor 70% of US poverty is rural/white
Joy Reid ?@JoyAnnReid : Of course, many white Americans know exactly what its like to live in the ghetto. Many, including immigrants have, do and did.
David Catanese ?@davecatanese I wonder if theyre gonna ask Bernie why hes getting crushed among black voters. Its his Achilles heel.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)with those comments over and over and over? I'm a Hillary supporter and that is annoying as hell.
deacon_sephiroth
(731 posts)KyleTaylorLucas ?@KyleTaylorLucas · 3h3 hours ago
Let's help #BernieSanders win this for us! The corp media blackout and estab Dems getting even more contemptible.
Politics Jim ?@PoliticsJim · 12h12 hours ago
Classic #BernieSanders reaction tonight on fracking... wish he could make it to national election #DemDebate
Adam Greenberg ?@Pragmactivist99 · 14h14 hours ago
No surprise that #BernieSanders is winning this #DemDebate so handily. It's centered around justice. This is what he actually cares about.
Natasha Fatah ?@NatashaFatah · 14h14 hours ago
Woah, woah. #BernieSanders says children shouldn't be poisoned and everyone deserves healthcare? This guy is way too radical. #DemDebate
Fish Creek Monitor ?@Fishcreek1269 · 7m7 minutes ago
Hillary's response to the #fracking Q shows how she is clueless about the process & our experience
Conigonde Gardiner ?@coniinthegarden · 2h2 hours ago
As a woman, I feel @BernieSanders treating @HillaryClinton the same as he would a male opponent is the opposite of sexism
Michael Andre ?@Michael_220 · 3h3 hours ago
I wonder why @HillaryClinton is only winning republican states and @BernieSanders is winning democrat and swing states #DemDebate
Dunia Tozy ?@duniatozy · 4h4 hours ago
If we want women equality we can't as women keep using the 'sexism' card whenever it's advantageous to us #DemDebate
The Sports Whisperer ?@montetjwitter11 · 5h5 hours ago
If this socialism I am all for it. Tired of an unfair plating field. #democraticdebate #DemDebate
Kaydee King ?@KaydeeKing · 10h10 hours ago
HRC interrupted Obama in their debates too & he called her on it. Was he a sexist too?? 🤔 #DemDebate
Internet Palace ?@InternetPalace · 10h10 hours ago
Don't understand how people in the left can vote for @HillaryClinton over @SenSanders. Makes ZERO sense. #DemDebate
Anthony B. ?@PoliticalAnt · 12h12 hours ago
How in the heck did @HillaryClinton get the endorsements of environmental groups when she doesn't even outright oppose fracking? #DemDebate
This Week Verified account ?@ThisWeekABC · 13h13 hours ago
.@BernieSanders takes majority of @twitter conversation surrounding tonight's #DemDebate:
Twitter Government Verified account ?@gov · 13h13 hours ago
Ranked follower growth for Democratic candidates in #DemDebate:
1. @BernieSanders
2. @HillaryClinton
IL 4 Bernie ?@Illinois4Bernie · 13h13 hours ago
Only one candidate beats the the whole GOP. #DemDebate #Bernie2016
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)but I also think he did not help himself. He came off as frustrated and angry to me. He was the Bernie of "Bern Your Enthusiasm." Until the end that is. Then he seemed more relaxed. He showed humor, and I think he does better when he shows humor.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)And that no doubt has something to do with my choice.
IMO, Bernie is at his best when he relaxed and humorous.
Just my opinion. He tends to sound great at his rallies when he isn't irritated.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)You should be ashamed for allowing yourself to be manipulated like that.
I disagree
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Seems pretty universal - he blew it.
DarthDem
(5,256 posts)And Chris Cillizza, the author of the piece you linked, is absolutely no Clinton fan.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)canichelouis
(373 posts)But I think we need a Debbie Downer gif
That's what pops into my head when I see posts of this nature
Wah-Wah
Robbins
(5,066 posts)because i can't stand to hear clinton's lying and her phonyness.i do same with republicans.i refuse to watch any of their debates.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)No reason too. She's shameless.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)is getting way too tiring.as how bernie is treated at town halls too.
sammythecat
(3,568 posts)If it will further her one ambition, there is absolutely nothing she won't do or say if she believes she can get away with it. Slander, lies, deceit...these are just tools to use.
Geronimoe
(1,539 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)It was a pretty mixed bag to be honest, and Clinton's debate skills are excellent.
That said, Sanders' biggest failing was not taking advantage of the many openings that Clinton gave him to drive his point home about his message. Big standouts included teachers, incarceration, and social justice, all things that he is much stronger on.
Clinton did a great job obfuscating her record and hiding behind Obama's policies when she got into trouble.
A performance win (the only thing that the M$M and the establishment cares to discuss) goes to Clinton.
Substance goes to Sanders.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)what, doesn't know anything about governing?
so it looks like the safe bet is to think the opposite of whatever you "think".
freebrew
(1,917 posts)SunSeeker
(51,658 posts)https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/06/winners-and-losers-from-the-7th-democratic-presidential-debate/?postshare=2701457320146330&tid=ss_tw
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/us/politics/who-won-the-debate.html?_r=0
Gamecock Lefty
(700 posts)The more we support Hillary!
KPN
(15,649 posts)Bernie's actually challenging the Queen -- effectively. Get over it.
Duval
(4,280 posts)It was a bad night for Hillary. She seemed defensive and not quite at her "best". She was also rude, talking over her allotted time, and even Cooper tried to interrupt her.
Vinca
(50,302 posts)Maybe you all expected Bernie to genuflect or something? That's all I can figure.
pandr32
(11,605 posts)He came across as a nasty, narrow-minded, old white crank.
crim son
(27,464 posts)said Bernie rocked.
Old Crow
(2,212 posts)Watch the closing statements again: Sanders was cogent and inspiring and hit it out of the park--and the crowd response was thunderous. Clinton's closing, by contrast, was lackluster and ended with a coughing fit.
Zambero
(8,965 posts)Justifying it by linking the bailout to the anti-Wall Street theme was a bit of a stretch. The gov't was in fact reimbursed. People whose jobs were spared in Michigan, Ohio, and elsewhere because of this legislation will tend to see things a bit differently.
Gothmog
(145,488 posts)haydukelives
(1,229 posts)Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Did terribly, surely. If he did, I don't know. I didn't see it, this whole thing has gone on way too long as it is. It's like choosing a new Pope.
Gene Debs
(582 posts)sheltered from contrasting opinions from people who saw the same debate?
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)pengu
(462 posts)I'll rectify that now.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...then that Super PAC could have collected negative tweets about things Hillary Clinton said last night.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)The tag
mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)When I was taking classes in Manhattan, my labor law professor pointed out that other nations' businesses have a clear advantage competing with us because they do not, generally, have to provide medical coverage to their employees. All of that is handed off to those damn socialist governments. This is a fact that few Americans seem to understand.
If YOU didn't have to pay for medical coverage how much more discretionary income would you have on an annual basis?
Just saying...
retrowire
(10,345 posts)you >>> http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1426859
me >>> http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1427384
lol you've got a highly skewed opinion of Bernie anyways so, really gotta take your analysis with a huge grain of salt from now on.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)SunSeeker
(51,658 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)The news I read talked about how Sanders and Clinton kept talking about her positions. Sanders really needed to stick to his wheelhouse but he flat out abandoned it. He is getting really bad advice. Too late for that anyway. I really wish he wouldn't make himself look so bad on his way out. That isn't even the end of the world as it has always been about EW holding up the left in the senate, not Sanders.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)He really, really made himself look desperate last night. Not a good look for any politician.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)Hillary was really good at details, and hitting key relevant points, like name checking Sandra Bland, and calling out the emergency manager problem. Her description of working with Marion Wright Edelman was compelling. I think think she's a good candidate and I will vote for her if she's the nominee.
Bernie was blustery and slightly gruff at times. His jokes didn't always work. But Bernie just gets the big picture so much better, and doesn't try to finesse things so much. You know where he stands. And his policies are just more compelling-- where we need to go. For instance climate change-- he fucking gets that we need to do something NOW. Which contrasts so much with Hillary's overly complicated about answer about fracking.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)My only objection: that finger-wagging is damned annoying. But that's not nearly as annoying as Hillary's constant, insufferable, no-manners interruptions. Some people got their knickers in a twist over it, but I loved him telling her, in effect, to STFU and let him finish talking (and yes, I'm a woman). I'd have been far more aggressive...which, to be honest, is one reason I'll likely never run for office.
Hillary was made to look, over and over again, like the Third Way corporate tool she is. That's a win for Bernie, and a win for the people.
gordyfl
(598 posts)I just watched the Debate. Throughout most of the Debate I thought Bernie Sanders did better.
Hillary threw some good punches and counter punches. So did Bernie. It was a very lively Debate. But overall, it seemed like Bernie was the Star on the stage. Hillary the Co-Star.
One conclusion from watching this Debate: From the original 5 Democratic Candidates, we are down to two. Out of the 5, these two are the best.
People now have a choice between two good candidates with a number of differences - some very big differences.
?w=620&h=473
George II
(67,782 posts)INdemo
(6,994 posts)Some of her answers showed that hypocrisy* is certainly one of her traits and has been a part of her Campaign since she announced.Are any of Hillary's debate coaches former George W Bush coaches? Or is it just David Brock a Karl Rove clone I see
shinning through?
*has been a big part of he whole political career.
gordyfl
(598 posts)she spent a lot of time looking down, reading from her notes.
Scalded Nun
(1,236 posts)Maybe for money, maybe just because she likes throwing hand grenades.
Regardless, the 'H' sums up the post. I do not expect better from them anymore.
Nitram
(22,853 posts)It's a big issue, and an important issue, but it is not enough for a presidential candidate.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)gordyfl
(598 posts)QUESTION: Fracking can lead to environmental pollution including, but not limited to, the contamination of water supply. Do you support fracking?
COOPER: Secretary Clinton?
CLINTON: You know, I don't support it when any locality or any state is against it, number one. I don't support it when the release of methane or contamination of water is present. I don't support it -- number three -- unless we can require that anybody who fracks has to tell us exactly what chemicals they are using.
So by the time we get through all of my conditions, I do not think there will be many places in America where fracking will continue to take place. And I think that's the best approach, because right now, there places where fracking is going on that are not sufficiently regulated.
So first, we've got to regulate everything that is currently underway, and we have to have a system in place that prevents further fracking unless conditions like the ones that I just mentioned are met.
COOPER: Senator Sanders, you...
SANDERS: My answer -- my answer is a lot shorter. No, I do not support fracking.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)The quote highlights it. He sees everything as black and white. But the world is a lot more complicated than that. She is the adult in the room on these issues, IMO.
gordyfl
(598 posts)If you support fracking, Hillary's your candidate.
If you are a corporation that does fracking, throw your money behind Hillary. (As they are doing)
If you oppose fracking, Bernie's your candidate.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Perfect response for Bernie.
truthseeker1
(1,686 posts)David Brock himself. Clinton's personal media watchdog/goon funded by Super PAC money. Great source! Spin spin spin away.
yardwork
(61,698 posts)ellennelle
(614 posts)david brock's little shop of hillary.
and we should be swayed by his opinion ....why, now?
and his careful selection of these quotes, from pundits on the corporate owned media?
pretty insulting, frankly. never give them the time of day on any day, why should i on this one?
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Stop deflecting. Bernie's debate performance was universally panned.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)his speaking down to African Americans by thinking they are all in the ghetto and white people are rich shows a huge lack of understanding.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)gaffes, whatever you want to call them. He let his true self show, which I am grateful for. But it was not a good look. I think it was the final nail in his coffin re: those that saw it or will hear about it over the next few days. He surely didn't pick up any voters with that performance.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Yep. That's clearly what you want to hear. *facepalm* LOL
Persondem
(1,936 posts)Colorado Rambler
(40 posts)According to the Atlantic Monthly. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-democrats-debate-in-flint/472491/
I think the Atlantic has a point:
~snip~
But Sunday nights debate was also a powerful reminder of the purposes of politics. It was held in a city already devastated by the loss of jobs, and now victim to catastrophic failures of governance at every level. As local residents stepped up to ask their own questions of the candidates, they spelled out the stakes of this election in deeply personal terms, grounding the debates over abstract principles in the questions with which their communities are struggling. ~snip~
~snip~
So who won?
Both candidates delivered strong performances, but given the patterns of support to this point, thats probably not enough for Sanders to turn things around.
The real achievement of the night was forcing the presidential contenders to grapple with the very real problems of one very particular community. Anderson Cooper, the CNN moderator, used the end of the debate to announce that a union fund had pledged $25 million to help fix the pipes in Flint. That may be as positive an outcome as any presidential debate will generate this year. ~snip~
Response to MaggieD (Original post)
BlueIdaho This message was self-deleted by its author.
riversedge
(70,282 posts)NowSam
(1,252 posts)and he won the debate hands down. Your commentary is a paid propaganda piece or parroting of same.
I saw that debate and Bernie crushed her with genuine straight talk which Hillary seems incapable of.
Peregrine Took
(7,417 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)MelissaB
(16,420 posts)Good one!
zappaman
(20,606 posts)wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Mommy, nooooooo, you hurted my eyes!!!! I was egging him on, but still funny