Tens of thousands to leave Democratic party the day after their primaries in protest

[pinebox]

And this is one of the scenarios playing out and illustrates why a Hillary nomination is a perfect storm for Republicans to take back the White House.

Personally I'm not on the #BernieOrBust train but here is a glimpse into what many of us have been saying.

TENS OF THOUSANDS TO LEAVE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THE DAY AFTER THEIR PRIMARIES IN PROTEST #BERNIEORBUST
https://pivotamerica.com/2016/03/03/theres-a-movement-within-the-sanders-movement-to-go-green-after-primaries/

As a protest thousands and thousands of Bernie Sanders supporters are making plans and preparations to say goodbye to the Democratic National Committee. Many have realized that as those who control the party move more and more right away from those who actually vote that it may be time for a revolt within the party itself.

Bernie Sanders calls for a political revolution, and many are now feeling that the establishment is conspiring against them at every turn. Whether it’s Bill Clinton’s election fraud in Massachusetts, or coin flips in Iowa, or rigged debate schedules – the fact is there are many people who just can’t let this race run fair and square and may the best candidate on merit and public opinion win.

My thoughts---
I think a Hillary nomination, should it happen, would spell disaster for Democrats. Yes, she has a lot of supporters but we also need to be honest here. She is ONLY popular among Democratic voters and doesn't have the sway with Indy voters like Bernie or even Trump has. That my friends is now the largest voting block in all of America, the indy voter, at 47% of all voters. The whole mindset & meme of "Vote for Hillary if she's the nominee because otherwise Trump/Cruz" is dead. People won't go for it and they are sick & tired of the lesser of 2 evils.

It is what it is.

[frazzled]

1. After signing up for one day as a Democrat in order to vote

Not buying it. In exit poll after exit poll, Sanders' strongest constituency (that is, where he wins by the largest percentages) is Independents and/or those who never voted before. Leaving the party is an empty gesture. They were never in it.

[pinebox]

3. Some perspective

I'm an indy. I switched to Dem to caucus for Bernie.
I'm buying it. I'm not coming back.
Indy's make or break presidential elections, we all know this.

[Jitter65]

361. So DINOS switch in and out just to vote for Bernie? So the party no longer belongs to true Dems? nt

[Cal33]

415. The true Dems., the Progressives and Liberals, are in the minority. The majority have long

since changed and adopted values more like those of the Republicans - such as bribery,
corruption and everybody for himself, and to hell with the rest. Being helpful to one's
neighbor is now looked upon by many as behaving like a "Socialist."

That's the way things have become. We have been under the leadership of sociopaths
- both in government and in the industrial world - for far too long. We and our values have
become degenerate. That's why we're rolling in the gutter.

[NJCher]

432. every word you say is true

We do not evolve. We devolve.


Cher

[FloridaBlues]

421. Right the MILLONS of people leaving the dem party you mean the indies and Green Party voters?

[Chan790]

426. A party narrow enough to conform to your idea of a true Democrat...

is one that will go the way of the Whigs.

[Hydra]

446. You say that as if it means anything anymore

I warned the "centerists" in the party that they are the minority and that if they took things too far and asked us to leave, we would.

If the party leaders continue to tarnish the term "Democrats," perhaps we'll take on the title of "Progressives" or that of a workers party.

I personally think it will be funny if we are driven out and the Dems wind up merging with what will be left of the now shattering GOP. That'll totally show us who the real Dems were, won't it? "Getting things done..."

[21st Century Poet]

448. No such thing as a true Democrat

There is no such thing as a true (or fake, for that matter) Democrat. You are what you vote for. When you vote Democrat, you are a Democrat. When you don't, you aren't. All Bernie voters are Democrats because Bernie is a Democrat running on the Democrat Party ticket.

It would be wise for the party to try and keep his voters on-board to win elections other than the presidential ones too. Creating a false distinction of true and false Democrats (how many times do you have to vote for it before you become a true one?) does not help.

[Loki]

538. That's one question I have never been able to answer.

How can you call yourself and "Independent" and vote for the republican party as it is today. Even voting for one republican is like voting for the whole establishment, they walk, run and sleep in lockstep. Not so of Dems, we are like herding cats. I've always thought Independent was a cop out. You really don't pay attention, but just listen to the buzz word.

[modestybl]

556. Most Independents will not vote for establishment candidates this year...

... if you believe the whole system is corrupt, you want someone who will either smash it or radically transform it... Trump the former, Sanders the latter.

With HRC there will be no change to this system. The banksters, fossil fuel lobbyists, hell even NRA lobbyists are holding fundraisers for her... many of them are also backing Rubio or Cruz, because even tho they may prefer establishment Repubs, they have no problem with HRC... they may have to throw a bone or two to her gullible supporters, but she will not rock their boat.

Bottom line: HRC if she is the nominee will need Sanders supporters way more than Sanders will need her supporters if he is the nominee. Sanders grows the party, HRC shrinks it. The biggest turnouts in the primaries so far compared to 2008 is where Sanders won or tied, and the lowest is where HRC dominated.

Either way, this will be the last election cycle where conventional politics prevail...

[brush]

607. So you weren't dem before and then you leave?

So we really haven't lost anything.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

9. Yes there are many

There are many who were Greens, Independents, Socialists etc. who registered as Democrats to vote for Bernie.

[jmowreader]

272. You just confirmed Frazzled's point

If it wasn't a requirement to register as a Democrat to vote in a Democratic primary - many states have closed primaries - would those "many who were Greens, Independents, Socialists etc." have registered as Democrats? In most cases, the answer is no.

[TM99]

310. The party percentages late last fall

were at an all time low of 23% of registered voters.

At the end of February that number rose to 30% because of these leftists.

With those leaving plus the disenfranchised long-term Democrats, expect that number to drop again likely as low as 20%.

Even with a majority of Latino and AA registered Democratic voters, Clinton can never win with only 20% of the registered Democratic vote, and that is assuming that all 20% get in line and hold their noses.

To win the GE, y'all need Greens, socialists, and independents. Without them say hello to President GOP.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

423. Bernie appeals across the spectrum

Hillary doesn't

[brush]

434. 20% of the Democratic vote?

Think you got that wrong.

[TM99]

435. Last fall the number of registered Democratic voters was at 23%.

That number has risen to 30% as of the end of last month.

If that 7% turn around and leave again and just 3% more registered Democrats (who have been so for longer than just this primary) do so as well, then yes, the number of likely registered Democratic voters in the GE will be around 20%.

No Democratic candidate can win with those number. Period.

[brush]

466. But you wrote 20% of the Democratic vote

Didn't you mean 20% of the total electorate?

[TM99]

468. Read again.

I said registered voters.

[TBF]

619. I declared dem to caucus for Obama

and stayed. I've voted for Bernie in my primary.

Switching to unaffiliated. I will be voting for Bernie in Nov or looking for the most left person on the ballot (likely Jill Stein). We'll see how it plays out.

ETA - I should note that I've ended up voting for the democratic candidate every year since 1992. But the coin tosses and Bill's bullhorn have pushed me over the edge. At what point do we say we've had enough? That is for each of us to determine according to our own conscience.

[Qutzupalotl]

28. Tell yourself whatever you need to

but you're going to need independents come November.

I've been a Democrat all my life and I've been waiting for a strong progressive in the mold of FDR. I will vote in my late primary for Bernie, even if I have to write him in. After that, I'm done supporting the DNC.

[vintx]

61. I stopped supporting the DNC after Wasserman-Schultz pulled that crap with the debates.

I took the money I used to donate to the DNC and instead donated to the DGA.

The DNC can go fuck themselves forever.

[RKP5637]

121. Same here! The DNC today is almost like being in the RNC. All establishment driven. n/t

[ancianita]

202. I learned that back in the Obama campaign days. Why is everyone now so hot about leaving the

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 12:43 PM - Edit history (1)

DNC. All the FDR Dems here should have left the DNC wing a long time ago.

We don't need no DNC to vote good candidates in.

The DNC and RNC are the very essence of captured government by corporations.

That doesn't mean that we stop voting or vote non-viable third parties.

[SCantiGOP]

229. Best news I've heard today

For the future of the Republican Party.

Anyone else notice that this whole notion is predicated on the fact that Sanders has lost/will lose the primary? I thought that was a heresy. How many "will you let us vote!!" threads are currently on the Greatest Thread listing?

[Cal33]

420. You seem to be oblivious to the fact that the Republicans are having their problems

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:24 AM - Edit history (1)

right now, too! They want to get rid of Donald Trump, but they don't know how. And
he knows it, and he doesn't care either! He only laughs at them, and at the Democrats, too.

[SCantiGOP]

431. That has nothing to do

With an OP celebrating the idea of the Democrats attempting political suicide.

[Cal33]

569. No? Trump might very well split the Republican Party in two. He has so threatened several times.

[SCantiGOP]

571. are you saying

That Trump's actions validate doing the same thing with the Democratic Party?

[Cal33]

597. I am saying that the Republicans are going through just as rough a time right now as the

Democrats are. And they should be taking a long serious look at their own state of affairs before
they begin to laugh and crow at others' predicaments.

[Thespian2]

283. Good response...

and I agree...

[INdemo]

260. many Democrats will say they will hold their noses and vote but

that wont make up for the millions that will stay home.

[fun n serious]

297. If this is true..

Than why isn't Bernie winning the popular vote? If he can't beat Hillary, he can' beat Trump.

[HeartoftheMidwest]

326. Bernie isn't winning the popular vote because people aren't seeing and hearing him.

He isn't on mainstream media and he's rarely mentioned in passing, except as an "oddity."
That has an impact on people who rely on traditional media for their news and information.

For those of us who've LEFT the mainstream media, and get our news and information online, like most of the younger generations ( say, generally people under age 40??? as an approximation ), we are able to obtain more information:

Videos of speeches; voting records; opinion pieces; etc. For us, politics is about INFORMATION.
For those who rely on mainstream media, most of their information is about PERCEPTION ( whatever media filters allow through about candidates. )

So Hillary Clinton has big name recognition, even if all her actions and positions aren't well known or well understood.
Bernie does not have as much exposure, though that is changing...thus his increasing popularity....and increasing his threat to H. Clinton's nomination.

[Hortensis]

336. OF COURSE Bernie is on mainstream media.

People prefer Hillary.

Bernie's followers love to tell us what we did wrong all these years. Well, you blew it. This should be a lesson, so take a lesson. No matter how much you want to burn the Democratic barn down, to make any difference you have to appeal to the much larger block of liberals directly to your right.

Next time, therefore, choose an iconoclaust who is also an accepting and gracious liberal, not an off-putting intolerant far-lefter -- and one who wouldn't turn 80 while still in office.

We have no idea how much difference that last may be making, only that it is a foolishly unnecessary negative to saddle yourselves with.

Oh, forgot: Choose a candidate who intends to win right from the beginning. Clue: The real beginning will occur at very least a year before you know he or she even exists.

[HeartoftheMidwest]

344. Sorry.

Bernie's coverage is scant compared to everyone else's, although he's harder for the mainstream media to ignore as he wins more and more support.

[Hortensis]

350. Of course Hillary's AND Bernie's coverage is scant.

We have no drama! LOL. We have two candidates who have to work at differentiating themselves enough to produce enough "quarrel" to make an unexciting story.

In the meantime, the Grand Old Party is a 5-alarm fire.


(See? None of these people are watching us.)

[xmas74]

481. My aunt lives in WI and hears about Sanders all the time.

I, otoh, live in MO and only hear about one person-Donald Trump. In MO you'd think there was no one else running.

(Actually, Sanders recently spoke just over the state line in KS and the news made a very big deal over him, much bigger than when Cruz was in KC. Still, none of them have coverage like Trump.)

[rhett o rick]

401. The Corp-Media has financially invested in Clinton and almost completely ignore him.

Many that don't stray from the Corp-Media didn't hear about the thousands of marchers last week for Sanders around the country. They don't see the thousands and thousands that have come out to support Sanders. He is new to a lot of people esp a lot of older people that don't use the internet.

Clinton and her billionaire friends might buy this election but we will continue fighting and the People's Movement will continue to grow.

By the way, why would Democrats be against a People's movement against the Oligarchy? The answer, Democrats aren't.

[Hortensis]

413. Ad nauseum. Tell it to those who can always be fooled.

You know, Rett o, when young I innocently assumed that referred to poor unfortunates who were intellectually disadvantaged in some way. After some decades, I was no longer so gullible and understood that it refers to the kind of people who insist on being lied to -- with their eyes wide open. Of course, that must be a sort of (but real) intellectual deficiency, just not an innocent one.

[rhett o rick]

417. Hard to read what you mean. Sounds like you are rationalizing not helping the 99% because

those advocating helping them aren't truthful. If you think that Goldman-Sachs/Clinton/Corp-Media will do right by the 99% then IMO you are naive at best.

So tell me you don't believe we are in the middle of a class war. With the 99% losing ground every year for the last 40 years.

[MADem]

369. He's on MY TV all the live-long day. He's on every news channel, and every talking head show.

He's on Ellen, Colbert, Kimmel, SNL, Fallon, Conan--he's EVERYWHERE. His on the front pages of newspapers, he made the cover of TIME....Vanity Fair and all the big glossies have done pieces on him--you'd have to be lacking sight and hearing to not have been aware of all this.

He is out there, all over the old and new media, all over the blogs and reddit and so forth, but he is only resonating with a slice of the electorate--and that slice is not wide enough or diverse enough to carry the day.

[rhett o rick]

437. In late Jan there was a nation wide event called MarchForBernie where

thousands of people nation wide in from 40 to 75 cities marched in the streets for Sen Sanders. As far as I can tell the Corp-Media ignored it. They young people know about Sanders because they don't rely on the Corp-Media that has financially invested in Clinton.

The hubris of the Clinton/Goldman-Sachs machine will be it's downfall. The People's Movement is continuing to grow and will win the class war.

[MADem]

441. Did people show up? If they did, then the "word went forth."

I don't see how you can complain about "media coverage" when most young people don't watch the news anyway.

If people showed up, they were obviously informed.

I think there's plenty of "hubris" to go around--the "hubris of the perpetually victimized" meme is getting very old, indeed.

[rhett o rick]

447. What?? People showed up because Sanders has a great network. That has nothing at all to do with

the discussion that NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN all ignored the thousands in 45 states. Why would they all ignore such an event held for a presidential candidate? Because the wealthy class that runs the government, that runs the leadership of our party, that runs the Corp-Media, do not want a progressive in the WH. Some calling themselves Democrats some how get comfort from siding with the filthy rich that think they can buy our government. Real Democrats march in the streets to throw out the corrupt culture.

Goldman-Sachs may buy the WH for Clinton but we will continue to fight for the 99%.

[MADem]

458. What do you mean by "What???" If he "has a great network," he doesn't need the "news that no one

watches."


And "40 to 75 cities?" Think you could get a little closer to a number than that?


smh.

[rhett o rick]

496. Whether you think he "needs" it or not has nothing to do with the question of why

are the Corp-Media ignoring him. He does need to get his message out to more people but Clinton and the Oligarchy are doing all they can to prevent that. I guess some are more comfortable siding with the power of the wealthy. Don't tell me you think that a Goldman-Sachs' presidency will help those living in poverty.

If you want to know how many cities, search for it yourself. You sure won't find it on the Clinton News Network CNN.

[MADem]

497. They're not ignoring him, though--he's on TV more than Clinton. smh! nt

[rhett o rick]

593. He might get on Ellen, but no one is broadcasting the thousands that show up to see him.

No one is broadcasting the thousands and thousands across the country. I can't believe that you honestly think the Corp-Media is fair.

[MADem]

594. No one is broadcasting the town halls that Clinton does, either.

And while Sanders may do one Mega-Event with several thousand people in a stadium or gym, Clinton does small group dynamics where a hundred people or so gather in a library or senior center or large classroom or coffee shop and they ask her questions for an hour and she answers each one. She'll do several in a day, for several days running, often as not. I don't see those on "Corp - Media" either. I see them on facebook, or youtube--which is where you can see the Sanders events, too--if you look for them.

If you're not wired into your candidate's campaign infrastructure, you won't know where to look to find this stuff. But if you are, you will.

EDIT--It's just after nine pm eastern, and C-Span is covering a Sanders rally....so whatever.....

[MADem]

596. This is an offensive post and I am going to memorialize it.

Star Member rhett o rick (51,537 posts)
595. Why don't you admit that you love the wealthy and think they deserve to rule.

You know in your heart that Goldman-Sachs won't help those living in poverty. Sad that Democrats have to fight against other so-called Democrats that worship at the feet of the super wealthy.

There's no point in alerting, given the present environment, but your words shouldn't be permitted to be erased.

They say so much about you.

[Freddie Stubbs]

604. The jury voted 7-0 to hide it

[MADem]

621. And I did NOT alert on that thing, either-I didn't see any point. I am glad, though, that I have

been shown to be wrong. Humbled, too. I need to think better of my fellow humans.


DU has some really good, stand-up people as members.

[pintobean]

605. 7-0. Wow

That's a surprise.
Everyone waiting on the forum hosts list just moved up a notch.

[SidDithers]

609. Oh my...nt

Sid

[William769]

624. ...

[Autumn]

625. 7-0 and not a single comment. Interesting.

[pintobean]

628. I think that says something.

I often don't leave a comment for fear of saying something that will make me ineligible for jury duty.

[Autumn]

629. Most people are pretty calm about their remarks

I got dinged for my comments in a group that I was constantly being call for jury duty despite that group being trashed. After the 4th time being called and the jury being filled and not being able to get out of it without logging out my third jury of the day was in that group. Tell you the truth it's very liberating.

[Cha]

613. ..

Somebody didn't take your advice.

[gg4usa]

590. I would love to see the young people come out and vote in droves

Trouble is - they don't, and won't! And Bernie needs those votes to stay alive while Hillary has the minorities, women and older people behind her. The stakes are too high - we cannot let the GOP get any more foothold and destroy the progress that Obama has made - unemployment down, stock market up, oil prices down, etc. Clinton is not the enemy!

[INdemo]

329. Hillary cant beat Trump but bernie can. Polls are showing that

Bernie Sanders defeats all Republicans and polling higher than Hillary.

Voters do not want a Bush (hes gone) and don't want another Clinton. The corporate PACs and Comporate media may buy her the nomination but when/if it comes to Hillary-Trump or Hillary-Cruz..Hillary will lose. Bill doesn't realize that him being out there campaigning for Hillary is hurting her. Voters think Bill is actually running for a 3rd term.

All these millions are invested in a losing candidate.
If Hillary would get out there and discuss issues she might change some opinions,but she is trying to buy this nomination
by attacking Bernie Sanders..That is the Republican way of campaigning.....

She will say (like Republicans do) I have a plan for this and a plan for that but never gives any details and instructs people to go to her Web site and nothing...no details just how much can you contribute,please register.

[INdemo]

362. Hillary wont win and not winning but the GoldmanSach's will buy it for her and

own her Presidency if she wins.

Take a look of all the Debbie has put forth to steal it for her..
Cheated ..Iowa
Cheated NV
Cheated Mass

[fun n serious]

386. Oh brother..

[Unknown Beatle]

399. Haven't you been paying attention?

Iowa, for example, the state democratic party chair refuses to release contested vote totals and drives car with license plate ‘HRC 2016’.

Nevada was really bad in terms of the caucus. People being counted without first registering, overall it was a total shit-show. In the end, all the dishonesty in the caucus favors Hillary.

There are many other examples, I'm not going to list them all, Google them if you want, but Hillary has run a campaign that would make Rove proud.

Hillary is running a very dishonest campaign, but what do you expect from a winning at any cost person. Why is it, that whenever and wherever there's shenanigans in the polling place, it's always in Hillary's favor? Kinda makes you think, doesn't it? Well, not you personally, per se, because when Hillary's winning, her supporters don't care how, as long as she wins.

[VulgarPoet]

535. I'll have to hold my nose and be roughly as drunk as a Scottish sailor

but the day after Election Day, I'm done with the DNC. To quote Killer Mike, "fuck them forever, hope I said that politely".

[INdemo]

552. Thats me too and I was born with blue blood

[Dawgs]

69. Same here. Dean, DWS, and Hillary are so arrogant that they don't think they need us. n/t

[INdemo]

264. many of the Clinton operatives are acting just like the Bushies

did in 2004

[840high]

321. Well - I certainly don't need them.

[closeupready]

545. Correct. They think because they are good at cutting backroom deals,

that they've got this cinched up. Well, fine, let's see them do that then. Heh.

[MissDeeds]

130. I'm about done too

and we're not alone. My husband and I were Bernie volunteers yesterday at a Kansas caucus and heard many people express frustration not only with Hillary as the possible nominee, but with the way the DNC and Wasserman-Schultz have steered the party to the right.

A lot of long time Democrats said they are seriously going Independent after the primary season.

[Duval]

233. My husband and I are considering doing just that, MissDeeds.

It's their own damn fault. I've been a Democrat since I could vote in 1960. Bernie is our Hope.

[MissDeeds]

439. It's not an easy decision

Like you, I've been a Democrat for decades, but I wonder if this Democratic Party still represents me or my values.

[ancianita]

241. Threateners are tantrum throwers ignorant of party history/vision. Independent is not yet viable.

This threatening to leave business is not smart.

The time to organize a third party is while the Democrats are in power.

THEN we move to form a third party that is on the ballot of all fifty states.

Right now third parties are not allowed on at least twenty state ballots. That's state level election commission political work they need to do.

First we vote and win. Everyone needs to stop letting primary issues drive them from the party.

[leftcoastmountains]

248. I am assuming that each person will take

their state into account. I've always been a non party person.
I toyed with the idea of joining the Democratic Party but could
never find a good enough reason.

[ancianita]

255. So why are you here. You're not politically driven enough to even be here. What's your story.

No one can assume their state looks out for their interests, much less that their state encourages progressive partisan politics.

Your kind of past apathy toward partisan influence of the country's vision has been typically why states get away with so much tax and pro-corporate shenanigans.

All this non party apathy has brought this country's suffering people to this petty Trumpian pass.

So what's it going to be. Are you joining the Democratic Party or not?

[noamnety]

265. I don't follow your logic.

Are you thinking if democrats are in power, the DNC establishment is going to do something to make third parties have easier access to our political system?

[ancianita]

302. Yes. Pick your third party. Look at states' party majority status history. Tell me the "leavers"

have a rat's ass chance anywhere for their purity of vision.

You can't.

The revolution that Bernie outlines will still be influential with any presidential nominee, but third parties are where innovations go to die when tantrum throwers leave this party.

Because it's called adult compromise and the looong game. Both parties' partisans learned that during the campaign of billionaire Ross Perot.

Now, find the states where there's no third party ballot access and start the fifty-state strategy of a third party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_third_party_and_independent_presidential_candidates,_2012

[noamnety]

312. I'm still not following your logic.

Maybe we are talking past each other. In this reply I see some name calling, and a link to third party candidates through the years.

But your earlier post implied it will be easier to get third parties on the ballot if dems are in control, and that's what I'm questioning. I don't see a connection between the two, because just like republicans, the DNC is not going to put forth any effort to help third parties have a national voice. Those in power tend not to like to give up that power.

If you have evidence that in the past the DNC, while in power, has in fact actively worked to give third parties easier ballot access, then I would understand your logic.

[ancianita]

335. I see third party voting in a majority of blue rather than red states on the map. Perhaps I'm wrong

I agree that those in power tend not to give up that power.

But one party harbors more progressive than reactionary tolerance, and so my logic is with that party.

I guess I'm trying to overlay Obama blue states with the map of third party ballot states.

Thanks for the challenge to my thinking about how third parties are really all over the map. I'll have to study this more. But after November.

[greymouse]

293. allowed on state ballots

"Right now third parties are not allowed on at least twenty state ballots."

I'm not sure that is correct. I just web searched and Ross Perot was on the ballot in 50 states and the Libertarian party is on the ballot in 40-something.

People may need to collect signatures for this to happen in some states. But also there are often rules that if a party has gotten x% of the vote in the previous election they get on the ballot.

This is one of the reasons that if I am so disgusted with the Dem/Rep choices or if it is clear that the state is going to swamp one way, I vote Green or something similar, so they continue to get ballot access.

[ancianita]

308. It might well be fewer. So show me the latest chart of third ballot states. I posted a quick find.

This is not the time to be talking third party voting. Too, too much is at stake in the direction of this government.

One branch is already corporate captured and full of long held bipartisan strategies and tactics for holding itself together.

The time for talking third party joining is between campaigns, not during.

First win. THEN turn the party around. Or then get 50-state viability for a third party.

We've worked on improving the Democratic Party with Obama for eight years -- our party has upheld the high level of public discourse that FDR Democrats demand -- and we should keep up the pro-99% pressure in this party, is all I'm saying.

[Kentonio]

427. Improved in the last 8 years?

You really believe that? So why exactly do the registered numbers continue to plummet? What is improving exactly?

[greymouse]

519. I'm sure you can google as well as I can,

well, maybe not since I got my results from the first 2 google results. I don't know where your wildly wrong results came from.

You brought up third parties, not me.

I plan to vote for Bernie right through the general. If I have to do it by writing in, I will do that. Fortunately that can be done in my state without involving a third party.

[ancianita]

531. I hate to bring up third parties but I read about it here and simply try to make the case that it's

neither viable in 50 states nor fixable in time for the General Election.

Write-ins are easy enough to do.

[Lizzie Poppet]

309. It's precisely BECAUSE I know the history of the party that I reject its current direction.

I began my political life as a Democrat, registering that way for the first election I was old enough to vote in. As so many before me have said, I didn't leave the party, it left me.

I get it. Parties change over time. Perfect example: the GOP, once the liberal party of Lincoln that ended slavery, is now a far-right cartoon, rife with racism.

As someone who values progressive principles infinitely higher than brand loyalty, what could I possibly owe the current center-right Democratic Party? If that party wants me back, particularly after this year's primary has vividly demonstrated that actual progressivism is viable, it needs to once again become a party that represents me.

I understand the thinking behind "First we vote and win," I really do. It's just that the current Democratic Party isn't a "we" I feel a part of.

[ancianita]

318. Thanks for the thoughtful response. It's your decision. I've decided they will never drive me out.

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:13 AM - Edit history (1)

I make demands in writing each and every donation solicitation I've gotten for the last eight years.

I holler and donate to individual FDR wing candidates, never to the DNC. I canvass, write encouragement toward progressive visions and vote.

I know that we really are so close to a progressive win, which is why the harping about leaving seems somehow calculated. I distrust it.

As always, I'm not leaving and I'm going to stick with my candidate Bernie 'til the end. THEN I'm still voting Democrat.

It's that very strategy that Republicans beat us with every time. I'm doing what they do because I know that they use the lesser of two evils rhetoric, and because I know that the lesser of two evils still produces more good. I'm utilitarian like that.

[Lizzie Poppet]

320. Likewise...and I respect your decision.

[TM99]

314. Then give us candidates like Sanders

that are actual progressives and all of us show up.

Otherwise, stop calling us children because your presumptive and pushed candidate is a neoliberal neocon New Dem.

And after the majority of American voters vote Green, socialist, libertarian, etc., these third parties will be on state ballots because they will have receive the required percentages in a national election to do so.

[ancianita]

332. Threatening to not vote the party nominee is the last thing DU'ers should voice here.

I don't mean to insinuate anything personal during the most passionate voting time of the election cycle.

To my best recollection after fifty years of voting, there has been no historical evidence -- Lincoln's and FDR's wins being the two exceptions -- that progressives turn out majority votes.

At least not yet. If tens of thousands leaving the party is really a fact, and not just some media hearsay, and the American majority do vote third parties that don't win, then the loss for the country will take us all in a direction that we'll live in dread with even more.

But I rest my case on the sad fact that the majority of Americans don't vote at all, and that too many party voters conflate party unity with uniformity.

Leaving for non-viable third party voting, at this point, is leaving the FDR wing and tantamount to giving the election away to demagogues that will make this country a disrespected nation internationally.

Thanks for your explanation.

[TM99]

338. Come the end of the primaries

many DU'er's will stop posting, go silent, and await the all but predicted routing of Clinton in the GE by the GOP.

And the only ones to blame are those that have pushed her both in the elite establishment and her endorsers.

You are still trying to use a fear card. Don't you get it. I fear a Trump presidency no more and no less than I fear another fucking Clinton one. And I am not alone.

So we adults vote our conscience. We vote our principles and for the candidate and party that best reflects those. If it is not the D or R party then yes, it very well may be a third party.

I am voting for the FDR wing. In fact I just cast my absentee vote for Sanders here in Arizona. If Clinton wins, I am sorry you can't sell me the bullshit that she is a representative of the FDR wing of the Democratic Party. She is a founding member of the New Dem DLC. She is a firm adherent of neoliberal economic philosophy. she is a strong supporter and vice versa of the neocons including PNAC. She was so slow to 'evolve' on social issues that she reveals herself to be the center rightist that she truly is.

Our nation already is disrespected and confusing the rest of the world. What fucking liberal, like Clinton, would speak out against fair trade, universal health care, and public post secondary education for all? Instead she speaks out for Free Trade, insurance mandates, and means tested loans for all.

[ancianita]

368. By no means is she an FDR Democrat. I never claimed that. I'm selling that the FDR voters need not

leave because they've "had it." We haven't had an FDR party since FDR. Now that Hillary's corporate allegiance is blatant in relation to Bernie, I'm selling that nevertheless, now's not the time to leave the winner-take-all game.

And we all know that she's no fucking liberal except relative to the Republicans.

I just cast my absentee vote for Sanders in Illinois. Yes, you're right about all the stuff that pisses us off right now. I agree with you. But more is at stake than judging her by her worst behavior. Bernie will take her concessions and compromises to task and so should we all.

I was a full donor to Obama. I've donated and voted for Bernie. In past elections I've spent a lot of time and money canvassing, flying young people to purple states and phone banking.

But I'm voting for Hillary if she's the nominee. I'm still betting that her long-constricted political work from the old days will come back into her agenda with her presidency, because the political work we've done in our formative 20's and 30's really drives much of our actions in our 60's and 70's. It's a hunch.

But we must not threaten to walk away from the General Election and let the Republicans smash the house we've built with Obama.

I'd rather err any day on the side of a bad Democratic than a good Republican president.

[TM99]

395. You are a party faithful.

I and so many others are not.

Sanders is the last chance at steering the Democratic Party back to the FDR/JFK/LBJ tradition progressive left. If Clinton wins the primary and then is allowed to win the GE, then it is over for the left. The GOP has moved steadily right in response to the Clintons and the New Dem coalition. That is the only way they could politically distinguish themselves from the pseudo-Republicans. If another Clinton wins, they will go further.

You think they are bad this election, wait until 2020 or 2024. Trump is ironically far more like the Clintons. He is a rather moderate & centrist conservative spewing a lot of bullshit in order to rile up the populace outside vote on the right. Cruz and Rubio are far more religiously conservative and scary really.

You are rolling the dice one way. I and so many others are rolling the dice another. It if far more important for me in a two party system for the party on the left to ACTUALLY be the party of the left. When they are not, then they are punished. Out of the ashes something new arises. History shows us this.

[fun n serious]

398. So you are in this to sabotage a Clinton win?

[TM99]

402. Nothing I wrote even

remotely resembles the conclusions that you are falsely drawing.

I am in this for a Sanders win.

Go away.

[fun n serious]

407. I re-read your post..

I was mistaken. I must have been reading another post when I responded to yours. I apologize.

[TM99]

409. No problem.

Mistakes can happen. Thanks for being honest and apologizing. That is appreciated.

[fun n serious]

412. You're welcome. nt

[ancianita]

526. I wouldn't fight that. I simply see the FDR wing as the seed from which that leftist party grows, as

does Bernie.

[TM99]

553. Then the FDR wing must act

decisively this election. If they do not, then we all lose.

[brush]

449. Have you, while bashing the dems and Clinton, paid any attention to what's happening . . .

in the repug party?

They are splitting apart as we speak, like that fiasco clown show, the one that argues penis size on national TV debates, among numerous other low lights, is going to defeat anybody.

Get real.

[TM99]

457. Oh, I assure you, I am very real.

The Democratic Party under the DLC/Third Way/New Dem leadership deserves bashing. It has put forth more Republican-lite candidates than it ever should have. DWS and the DNC under Obama is bleeding out support and losing elections at unheard of rates.

The Republican Party all but runs this country, not because of leftists like myself who want real tradition progressive candidates. No, it is solely the fault of the party elites and those who keep denying how far right this party has moved over the last 30 years.

[brush]

460. You didn't address the question.

Do you think the party that argues penis size in their nationally televised debate is gonna beat anyone?

[TM99]

467. You ignored my answer.

They already are beating Democrats.

They control most state's legislatures and governorships. They control the House and the Senate. They will have no problem beating the wrong Democratic candidate and every problem beating the right one.

Go look at the constant polls on the subject and the right one is Sanders and the wrong one is Clinton.

[Hestia]

562. As the saying goes, All Politics is Local. All eyes on Presidential election, but we are going to

have to start joining/infiltrating/whatever and and kick the DINO's out at the local and state level. That's the problem, everyone waits for someone else to do something, rather than, taking a deep breath and get involved. Get in on the ground floor because I think there are some huge changes coming forth, and you/we cannot allow those changes to be driven by the other side.

What is the saying - Change in inevitable. Change for the better is a full-time job.

There is a deep, entrenched psychosis going on in this country (especially on the other side) and those of us who haven't succumbed are 1) horrified and 2) asking how to stop it? It has us paralyzed as to the best foot - if not forward or to the left, but somewhere that gets us out of this nightmare. We've allowed ourselves to become stuck at the election of 2000 and stopped but their side hasn't.

Unfortunately, the DNC has been taken over by corporations and billionaires who are calling the shots right now. The Democratic Party has sold its soul too, just like the GOP. They throw us some table scrapes and tell us we should be happy that we have anything at all because they are "looking forward," yeah, right at their wallets and pocketbooks.

But, the DNC has the infrastructure to cement positive change/s if those billionaires are kicked out, which can only be done 2017 onward at the local level. For ill or for good, Howard Dean showed us how to do it. That infrastructure is there too.

Joining in swarms and *quietly* (no one wants to be preached to) take over. No one has to announce anything, just naturally allowed to flow towards a True Democratic Party that it once was and can and will be again.

Breaking off may be satisfying individually but it doesn't win elections.

[TM99]

573. I don't disagree that local

elections are just as important.

But in case you hadn't notice for the last two decades, the New Dem DLC strong DNC does not support local campaigners that run counter to their political philosophy. You either play the game, or you lose the support.

The refrain is always, change it from within. That never works.

History is replete with examples. The Catholic church was not changed from within, Martin Luther broke away. The 1830's to the 1850's with the Whigs, the Democratics and the Republicans is another example.

When an establishment becomes corrupt, the only option is to take it down. If it can't be done so from within because of the entrenched power and money, then it must be done from without.

[brush]

444. You guys need to start your own party if you don't like the dems

Bernie joined for a reason, for the Democratic brand and it's national visibility. The Green Party, the Liberal Party, and the independants, although not a party, who ever hears of them? Which is why he joined, what, eight months ago and now all his supporters want to change everything about how it runs?

What organizations work like that? You kinda have to learn how to work all the levers of power, get on the committees, form relationships within the party — you know, spend some time in the organization to build influence. Otherwise, head out the door and start your own party.

And speaking of all those small third parties, they never do anything but during presidential cycles. You never hear of them except every four years, and you barely hear of them then. They never work to get on all 50 state ballots or run down-ticket candidates. It's always for the highest office — like that's gonna work.

But go ahead and go for with the third party. See you in four years.

[TM99]

453. You don't understand history.

Party corrections are occuring on the left this year as much as the right.

If membership declines to the point that the Democratic Party can not fund state candidates nor win any further national elections, then another party will form to take its place. Instead of petulantly denying reality, study some political history instead.

[brush]

464. Are you serious with that?

Because that's not about to happen to the dems in the foreseeable future.

All of the people that joined the party to vote for Sanders will leave and the party will revert back to it's former size.

Those that leave can go back to being independents or start a third party and circulate petitions to try to get on ballots in all 50 states.

Good luck with that. See you in the history books, along side Ross Perot.

[TM99]

469. Yes, I am serious because

I have studied history and you obviously have not.

If history for you is Ross Perot, try again.

'Its former size' was measured at 23% of registered voters last fall. Those independents that joined took the registered Democratic voters in the US from 23% to 30% this February. If they leave once more as well as even just a few percent of the long-term Democratic voters who are sick of the direction the party is going in, good luck winning any elections with less than 1/4 of the registered electorate being identified Democrats.

Independents will decide this election not the party faithful. Keep whistling past the graveyard in denial but the facts are the facts.

[brush]

471. If you studied history so much as you claim you have to know . . .

that process is not going to happen in one presidential cycle, not even two or three.

Additionally, all those you claim will leave the party will be replaced by the 800,000 people of color who turn 18 EVERY YEAR.

The country is browning as we speak and those people are not going to vote repug.

Now there's some history for you being made.

[TM99]

474. Really, please read a history book

about the political parties in the 1800's, in particular the 1850's.

Do you really believe that all minorities register to vote Democrat? Sorry, I had to laugh. I grew up with the black side of my family all being registered Republicans. Yes, we 'brown' people exist across the entirety of the political spectrum. Keep objectifying us as a monolith voting bloc and see how that works out for you.

By the way, Clinton lost the Millennial Latino vote in Nevada.

[brush]

475. You're fooling yourself

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 03:29 AM - Edit history (1)

This is not the 1800s where it was all about how white people, white men really, voting and/or deserting a party.

It is no longer about just white people. Newsflash! People of color and women vote now.

And of those 800,000 people of color turning 18 every year, the percentage of them will follow the percentage of how many people of color vote dem now — African-Americans 90-95%, Asian-Americans 76%, Latino-Americans 71%.

And that's not even counting LGBTs and women voters who also tend to vote majority dem.

Come up to the 21st century please.

[TM99]

476. You are starting to embarrass yourself.

Please study some political science. Read a book or hell even look up on a Wiki how the parties have changed and morphed in the US.

And cut the condescension bullshit. I AM a PoC.

Now let's talk some math as you apparently have remedial understanding of it as well.

For example, in SC, Clinton got 80% of the AA vote. Voter turnout was at an all time low of 12.5%. What is 80% of 12.5%? Now extrapolate such numbers into the general election.

I am not going to waste much more time on your SJW talking points.

[brush]

480. You're embarassing yourself

You say you're a person of color but you seem to be routing for a repug win while at the same time claiming that the Democratic Party will soon come apart because of a defection by, and let's face it, some mostly white Sanders supporters who joined only to vote for Sanders.

You also avoiided acknowledging that nearly a million people of color turn voting age every year of which at lease 70% will vote for democrats and replace those defectors who left and took their ball with them.

You didn't even mention that?

Like I said, it's not all about white people anymore as in another 20 year the country will be minority majority, and history (your favorite word it seems) tells us that people of color vote democratic by a quite large percentage.

And as for your percentages on voter turnout, the repugs had 5 and 6 candidates running, all with gotv ground games working so of course they had a higher turnout. Dems only had the two candidates.

And btw, that means little because Obama didn't win SC in 2012 and dems with any sense don't expect to in 2016. But, as history tells us, we don't need to carry SC to win the general.

[TM99]

484. Are you are a PoC?

Acknowledging the realities of the current state of the party and supporting Sanders as I do, is not 'routing for a repug win'. With that comment alone I can easily dismiss anything else you are bloviating about as it is just going to be bullshit.

You claim that there will be these numbers and they will go Democratic, yet you present no facts to back it up.

You have created a straw man as I am not arguing about minorities versus whites. You are off on your own tangent on that.

The turnout was not dependent upon the number of candidates.

And my example was only of SC. These same kinds of numbers have occurred in all of the southern states and in several of the other states who have held caucuses and primaries thus far.

I am done.

[brush]

488. IMO if you're withholding your vote if Sanders doesn't win . . .

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 03:23 AM - Edit history (1)

you might as well be rooting for the repugs.

And as far as my alleged "bloviating", just google how many people of color turn voting age every year — 800,000 is the number, give or take.

And they won't be voting repug so I doubt very much that the Democratic Party will be falling apart anytime soon as you argue.

[TM99]

491. So I see you didn't answer

the question.

Nor did you provide any facts.

Finally, I always vote. I may not vote for Clinton but I am also not voting for a Republican. If neither party produces the candidate that fits my positions and policies, then I look elsewhere to give my vote.

Isn't living in a democracy grand?

[brush]

506. Read for yourself

www.americanprogress.org/issues/immigration/news/2015/09/17/121325/top-6-facts-on-the-latino-vote/

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/13/18934111-census-white-majority-in-us-gone-by-2043

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/us/whites-account-for-under-half-of-births-in-us.html

[TM99]

551. This does not dispute my argument.

By the time all of these children come of age over the next 20 years, the Democratic Party of today will have been replaced by the Democratic Party of tomorrow or another party all together.

[brush]

561. What? Did you not get the key phrase?

This is not 20 years away. This happens EVERY year.

800,000 Latino-Americans turn 18 every year, and that doesn't include the rest of the POC 18-year olds who also turn voting age every year.

The Democratic party is not going anywhere, it'll be definitely browner though, as will the country.

And what happened to your "Whig" party example who you first mentioned to bolster your argument that the Democratic party is close to disintegrating? Now you're saying that in 20 years there will be a Democratic party of tommorow. I seem to remember you saying that the party would disappear like the Whigs did.

Your argument might actually hold water with the repugs though. Now that's a party that's splitting apart.

They're scheming how to take the nomination away from Trump in a brokered convention.

[TM99]

572. It is happening to both parties.

It has been happening to Democrats for about 20 years now. It is simply reaching a point of breaking.

It is still irrelevant, and you still refuse to state whether you are a PoC or not.

[brush]

574. Of course I'm an AA.

And despite the figures I've cited you refuse to acknowledge that the Democratic Party is not the one threatened with extinction.

[TM99]

575. You refuse to look at what is

happening right in front of your face - majority PoC voters or not.

[brush]

583. What exactly are you talking about that's supposed to be in my face?

Before you were going on about history and the Whigs now it's non-specific who know what you mean.

Now with evidence before you showing the huge numbers of Dem voters who will come online yearly, you resort to vagueness.

Admit it, the Democratic Party is not going belly up with the fast-changing demographics of the country.

[TM99]

585. Sweet Jesus!

This whole thread is what is in front of your face.

I have been on DU but not actively posting since 2001. This is the first election season where this type of discussion has arise. This is not a small group of PUMA"s. This is dissension in the rank & file. This is being reflected everywhere, not just on DU. Open your eyes.

These 'fast-changing' demographics have been in place since the 1990's. This is not going to change what is occurring to the Party itself.

I have been anything but vague.

We are done. Have a good afternoon.

[brush]

587. OK, OK! You cited history and Whigs but nothing close to that has happened since the 90s . . .

not to mention two terms for Obama.

Time to leave you to your unproven arguments.

[mindem]

288. I'm one of them too

I couldn't be more disenchanted with the democratic party.

[mythology]

416. This talking point is really tired

The parties are more polarized than any time since Reconstruction. It's silly to claim the party is moving to the right.

[Kentonio]

429. Two things can travel in the same direction

And the distance between them still increase.

[marlakay]

424. We are also talking about it seriously

Feel like the party is too far to the right now.

[daleanime]

155. Amen....

[inchhigh]

224. I'm just a lowly School district employee

So I don't have much money but I've given a little money to the DSCC and 21st Century Democrats every year. Not this year. I'm not going to leave the party because I've been in it longer than most of the DNCers and I'll be here long after them. But I'll vote for Bernie no matter who the Dems nominate.

I kind of regret that I didn't vote for Nader and I almost voted for John Anderson in 1980 because he had been against the Vietnam war and supported the Soviet Grain embargo. Now I thank God I didn't because I got the vote for the greatest living Dem President instead.

Since we ended up with Bush anyway, now I wish more had voted for Nader and the Democratic Party had learned the lesson then that it needs to learn now.

The path to victory is to the Left.

[ChiciB1]

274. I Just Wrote A Letter To The DSCC, The DNC & The Florida State Party...

Starting with a 14 pt. Bold Red Color in all caps I started with the word ATTENTION centered on the page!

My intro was To The DEMOCRAT/DLC Third Way Party to which I after stated my reasons why I will be leaving the Party after this election. If it weren't for what's offered on the other side I would probably wouldn't have bothered. But I did want to make sure they understood that I no longer wanted to be associated with a Party that's doing everything it can to MAKE SURE Hillary will be ANOINTED.

I wanted to make sure I would NEVER receive another email, letter or any other correspondence asking for a donation. I have the letters they sent me asking for money, but I'm waiting for a little while longer to send the letter.

They've insulted my intelligence! I live in Florida and I'm told Hillary has ALREADY won here! I'm SURE it's going to happen because THEY WILL make it happen!

Am I the only one here who thinks it's strange that Bernie wins obscure states that have me scratching my head? Like OK & KS! Does it not make sense that if he can win there he surely can win other states that are considered much more Progressive? But, when The Hillary Machine goes into a state and does whatever it THEY do, she wins. All that's gone on since the Primaries have started have had some smell about them. Perhaps The Clintons KNEW NH wasn't worth fighting for, but the other states were pretty close, give or take a couple. SC was no contest, but Bernie knew that as MOST here did. Jim Clyburn shilling for Hillary could have had no other outcome. But the states that have been close, they either won by a small margin of MAYBE they really didn't win.

Regardless, NONE of it can be proved. What our Democratic Party Machine AND the Clinton Machine doesn't realize is that far too many of us are now entrenched in our suspicions. When anyone, whether it's HER or not, has this amount of suspicion surrounding their candidate it only fuels more negativity and MORE suspicion.

I know the Hillary supporters "think" this is some sort of sore loser syndrome, but too many people I know and even in my own family the anger is growing. THIS IS ANGER that has nothing to do with being a sore loser. Many of us have been part of a campaign that's lost, but generally it's accepted and we move on. So, call it what you want, but in time I believe in my heart that THIS ELECTION will have been a huge turning point for MANY, MANY of us!

I have never given a second thought to leaving the Party, and I've been a member all my life! This time when we say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, I'd bet money that this time it will actually happen.

[840high]

316. Many of us feel that way.

[greiner3]

419. To me with Bernie running

Congers the scene from The West Wing when Josh calls up Sam and all he says is "I've found him" referring to Martin Sheen's presidential role.

[CoffeeCat]

492. People who think this way have lost it

They suggest that they can win a presidential election without Independents.

These are the same people who mock Sanders supporters and tell us that our numbers aren't strong enough to have any effect on Clinton. When I've tried to point out that we do matter, I'm told that we're only an insignificant portion of the Democratic Party.

I read this insanity and I can hardly believe what I'm reading. I'm at the point where some of it is so batshit, that I don't even respond.

This "phenomena" will drive the Democratic party off a cliff.

[CoffeeCat]

52. Boy are you in for a rude awakening

The media is focused on the volcano happening in the Republican party.

Meanwhile, the Democratic party is dealing with it's own disaster that will be just as bad, most likely even worse.

Tectonic shifts are happening within the party. Many in the Democratic party feel that HRC does not represent their values, or the values of the Democratic party that they know--and have known for years.

I've been a Democrat my entire life. I was a volunteer for Gore, an absentee-ballot courier for Kerry, a precinct captain for Obama and I held fundraisers for Obama at our home.

I most likely will leave the Democratic party and register Independent if she is our nominee. I will consider myself politically homeless for the first time in my life.

I hold out hope that I don't have to leave. Those shifts that are happening will become apparent as this nomination process progresses. Sanders is not getting out. I am hoping that the Democratic party faithful in DC--some of the current leaders step in to stop her nomination, when it becomes apparent that her nomination is taking down the party.

There are currently some signals that this may be a possibility. I hold out hope that our party can be saved.

[RKP5637]

129. The way the DNC is operating, they are ensuring a republican win in 2016. n/t

[daleanime]

156. And they're perfectly fine with that....

[RKP5637]

197. It's the most incredible thing. The DNC today just just another faceless corrupt and uncaring

corporation! It has little to do with "we the people" IMO.

[Plucketeer]

220. They don't listen to "the people"

Why should we expect them to serve us?

[McKim]

436. Excellet Point, Dale

Yes, they will get exactly what they want, a Neocon foreign policy. There seems to be no daylight between HRC and the Neocon Project for the New American Century.

[brush]

452. Oh, like the party that talks about penis size on tv is gonna beat anybody?

Have you paid any attention to the repugs? Now that's a party that's coming apart at the seams.

[RKP5637]

482. Americans often do not play with a full deck when they vote. Often it's driven by emotions, they

fall for the propaganda hook line and sinker! I would hope they do not vote for the R's. What a state this country is going to be in if a R is in the WH in 2016. Democrats must stick together and vote full force for whomever the democratic nominee is.

[brush]

483. I'm with you on that.

[RKP5637]

485. This election has me very concerned. I just find it startling Trump has the following he does,

in fact, it's frightening. I'm listening to the democratic debate tonight on CNN as I type. It's so uplifting to hear two people discussing things without resorting to name calling and trash. The republicans are tarnishing the image of the US worldwide making a spectacle and fools of themselves. How, can anyone watch a republican debate and think this is good is way beyond me to comprehend.

[brush]

489. It's heartening to read clear-heading reasoning on this board

So much of it is over-top-partisanship threatening to take their ball and go home if their candidate doesn't win.

I have to shut down now, my laptop is running out of power.

[RKP5637]

490. Thanks for the discussion we had!!!

[Hestia]

566. Read this to understand Drumpf supporters.

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism?utm_campaign=vox&utm_content=feature%3Afixed&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

No amount of facts, figures, etc. will make a difference with his supporters. 4 little questions on parenting tells university researchers all they need to know about you politically.

The problem is people on the left can become just like them through fear. What they need is to have someone sit down, smoke a doob and give them a hug, telling them things are not that bleak, that we'll make it through all the changes just fine. It's Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns that have them in a dither and they do not know what to do about it. Their lizard brains are running their shows right now.

Drumpf's supporters don't care about the GOP platform or economic policies, just fear of the unknown.

[PatrickforO]

131. Clinton does not represent my values. Bernie does.

[werknotgoin2takeit]

201. You sound like me

I've been a democratic party member since I turned 18 and cast my first vote in 1988. I always voted D because it was supposed to be the liberal party. I don't feel that anymore. If Bernie is not the nominee I will for the first time be partyless and change my affliation to independent.

[Duval]

242. I have a little hope, because Sanders is not getting out.

Would love to hear about the "signals"!!

[DiehardLiberal]

295. I echo your feelings and your path as an active lifelong Democrat. The party has left us.

It is up to us to create our new future. I hope that doesn't mean leaving the Democratic party but if they won't follow our wishes then there is no other reasonable option.

[brush]

455. Yep! You're right. More people in the party seem to prefer Clinton . . .

so leave and start your own party.

[Samantha]

370. It has already started, CoffeeCat -- read this article about MA Dems

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/2016/02/amid_trump_surge_nearly_20000_mass_voters_quit_democratic_party

Nearly 20,000 Bay State Democrats have fled the party this winter, with thousands doing so to join the Republican ranks, according to the state’s top elections official.

Secretary of State William Galvin said more than 16,300 Democrats have shed their party affiliation and become independent voters since Jan. 1, while nearly 3,500 more shifted to the MassGOP ahead of tomorrow’s “Super Tuesday” presidential primary.

Galvin called both “significant” changes that dwarf similar shifts ahead of other primary votes, including in 2000, when some Democrats flocked from the party in order to cast a vote for Sen. John McCain in the GOP primary.

While the Secretary of State of MA attributes this mass exit to the Trump phenom, I believe he is only partially correct. Sixteen thousand plus registered as Independents and 3,500 registered as Republicans.

Note the article is dated March 1. I believe that during the first few months of this campaign, many were not familiar with Sanders and his platform. This was during what I call The Big Ignore the MSM deployed against the interests of Sanders and O'Malley. So it is my belief that a part of this exit was a rebellion against the way the DNC was conducting the primary and a preemptive "no-vote" against the corporate candidate, Hillary Clinton.

Other than that, I feel the same as you on this subject. The DNC and the other players have totally destroyed their own reputations (and they didn't even bother to try to hide their maneuvers). They hold the voting public in total contempt, and we who are outraged must make a decision: what do we do about it?

Sam

[Hestia]

567. Yeah, but weren't people begged to change their party affiliation to vote against Drumpf and vote

for Cruz or Rubio, anybody, just to make sure Drumpf doesn't win?

[Samantha]

570. I did not hear that but it might be true; the only fact I have is what the Secretary of State said

I have heard a rumor that some people are voting for Trump because they think Congress is a joke and it deserves someone like Trump to be its President. Seems like there might be a little retribution going on....

Sam

[dana_b]

56. I am an indy who re-registered as a Dem

only to vote for Bernie. If he is not the nominee, I will probably go indy again. I left the Dems years ago and I do not see things getting better within the party. At least not in my view.

edit - btw - my daughter, her boyfriend and a few of their friends are doing the same thing. Even my Republican sister is thinking about registering as a Dem for Bernie.

[brewens]

247. Bern or let it burn! That's almost where I'm at. n/t

[BernieforPres2016]

63. Does that make you feel better?

You don't want the votes of independents? See how well the Democratic Party does without them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. 43 percent of voters are currently independents

Not to be confused with the Independent party in California.

Both parties are in trouble. So if you need to tell yourself to sleep at night, by all means. Party officials, like those in CA know what happened to the GOP, not that this has stopped them from real bone headed maneuvers tough.

[Bubzer]

134. +1

[Blue State Bandit]

82. My 22 year old Dem registration card sits next to a lighter.

[Lizzie Poppet]

92. I certainly only re-registered to vote in my state's closed Dem primary.

There is actually a candidate I want to vote for, not just some I want to vote against. No, I'm not otherwise a Democratic Party member, in actual registration, nor in spirit. I won't be a Democrat in spirit until the party arrests and reverses its horrible slide to the right. As always, I'll vote for its candidates (when they're actual leftists), but I sure won't buy into the branding, into the "tribe."

[Pakhet]

271. I've been a registered democrat for 32 years

And I'm with you. This is the first time I can vote FOR someone instead of against someone. It feels good. I don't know what ill do after this election.

[ncliberal]

144. I'm a lifelong Democrat and have been voting for Democrats my entire adult life.

I have been on DU over a decade. I am a proud Liberal. I will be switching to Independent after my primary. I read numerous sites and have seen lots of people stating the same. You are wrong to think the people leaving the party were never Democrats. Most of us have always been Democrats but feel the party has left us and no longer represents the values which made us Democrats in the first place.

This election has been extremely eye-opening in regards to the number of organizations and politicians who supposedly represented Progressive values but in reality don't support true progress. The Green Party better represents my values now. The first email I received from them this week was about the influx of Bernie supporters they expect if he loses the nomination. Everyone around sees this reality except the Clinton supporters.

[dana_b]

159. +1

[phazed0]

216. +2 n/t

[Live and Learn]

231. +3 nt

[Duval]

246. +4 nt

[nashville_brook]

290. +5 ... explainer...

i can't see myself changing my party affiliation, but i completely understand and HOPE your message will get through to the party.

it's not just this election. this is just the most visible and egregious example of what's been happening in Congressional and Senate races for more than a decade. we've lost 1000 seats just since Obama took office. that reflects on the DCCC, the DSCC and the DNC. they've taken us from a party that no one could imagine being out of power in Congress, to the party that no one can imagine regaining power. and if you examine all the lost races and the failed strategies, it boils down to the same old song and dance: special interests over voters.

we can't continue like that. the party needs a wake up call, as if losing all those races wasn't enough.

*btw, i turn 50 this year. i've voted for Democrats my whole life, and beyond that, been a DEMOCRAT, in all the rah-rah sense. it stinks having to watch the party defile itself with corporate candidates that can't win votes. i'm speaking here of Congressional/Senate races. See this for more information --> http://thefloridasqueeze.com/2016/03/04/president-obama-alan-grayson-bernie-sanders-and-hillary-clinton-walk-into-a-bar-fight/

PRESIDENT OBAMA, ALAN GRAYSON, BERNIE SANDERS AND HILLARY CLINTON WALK INTO A BAR FIGHT

Scott Arceneaux needs to brush up on his platitudes, because clearly, to “disagree without being disagreeable” doesn’t mean what he thinks it means. In a statement circulated to political media, Florida Democratic Party Executive Director Arceneaux said he was “disappointed” with another statement put out by the Democratic Progressive Caucus of Florida President, Susan Smith, expressing dismay that President Obama and Vice President Biden waded into Florida’s Democratic Senatorial Primary by endorsing lifelong Republican Patrick Murphy over the progressive leader, Alan Grayson.

Showing a measure of desperation on the part of establishment politicians, the POTUS endorsement came just a day after PPP polling revealed Grayson leads Murphy by double digits—his largest yet.

Susan Smith’s statement on the endorsement reads in part, “As much as it breaks my heart to see President Obama attempt to put his thumb on the scale for Patrick Murphy, it’s even more worrisome that the president seems to have done so with bad information. Patrick Murphy has said he wants to look at cuts to Social Security, and he supported the so-called Bowles-Simpson plan that would have cut benefits for the vast majority of Social Security recipients.”

Regarding Arceneaux’s rote recitation of platitudes, Smith is doing the opposite of being disagreeable here—she’s giving the President the benefit of the doubt. In his statement Arceneaux said, “We are a big tent party with diverse views and should be able to disagree without being disagreeable.” It’s far worse to assume Obama endorsed Patrick Murphy knowing the details of his record in all its horrifying glory. In Murphy’s record you’ll find no moral center, and precious little in the way of values that any mainstream Democrat could or should find agreeable (h/t Howie Klein, read more here):

• Patrick Murphy was one of only 22 Democrats voting for a resolution condemning President Obama’s rescue of Beau Bergdahl from the Taliban.

• Every single time Boehner brought it up, Murphy voted for the Keystone XL Pipeline.

• When Alan Grayson offered a resolution challenging the constitutionality of the GOP plan to strip the President of decision-making authority for Keystone XL pipeline, Murphy was one of only 19 Democrats voted with the GOP against the resolution.

• And, Patrick Murphy was one of only 7 Democrats who voted to establish the Benghazi Committee against Hillary Clinton.

[Ferd Berfel]

303. yep. THe party was sold to Corporatists like the Koch Bros and has been movie

in that direction ever since. I haven't lost my Democratic principles, the party has shifted so far to the right that it now represents the republican party of 50 years ago. It's shifted so far to the right that the head of the DNC thinks that 300% payday loan sharks are a good thing and is proud to say so out loud! AYFKM?

"I haven't left the party, the party has left me" isn't just talk. It's reality, it's reality, it's what has happened. Sad.

[840high]

322. .^that

[m-lekktor]

345. After I vote in the CT primary I will unenroll from the DEM party as well. nt

[Karma13612]

348. +10 eom

[Barack_America]

445. +11

My platform belongs to no party any more.

[RiverLover]

510. +12

I'll be going Green too. Its a strange feeling. Proud Democrat has been part of my identity for a long time, my entire adult life like you.

The blinders are off now.

[bigwillq]

515. +13 (nt)

[Cobalt Violet]

522. +14

My thoughts too.

[bvf]

147. Heh.

Keep whistling and post some numbers.

I've been a Democrat for going on forty years, and this cycle marks the first time I've ever seriously questioned my membership. I doubt I'm alone in that.

[elljay]

184. They were ALL in it

Where do you think they were before becoming Indy or Green? These are people who used to be in the Democratic Party but who left in disgust as the party became Republican-lite. They're coming back for Bernie but not for Hillary and more of the same corporatist policies. The DNC is blowing the best opportunity it has had for decades to grow the party.

[ThePhilosopher04]

200. Not true.

There are independents (like me) who have supported and voted for Dems their entire lives. I've had enough.

[a la izquierda]

219. My husband has always been a registered Independent.

He has almost always voted for Democrats too (Perot in '92 being the exception). He will change his registration to vote for Sen. Sanders. Then he will likely switch back.

[NEOhiodemocrat]

249. My husband also has been an independent his whole life.

Tthe majority of the time he voted D but this year is registering D to vote in the primary for Sanders. I on the other hand have been a registered D since I first voted at age 21 in 1971. This year I did not renew my DNC and when they called I told them from now on I only give directly to the candidates I want to win; in this case Strickland for Senator and Sanders for president. With all that has gone on this year my eyes have been opened. I will most probably become an independent after this. I think there will be a exodus from the D party. One of my main issues are the super-delegates (deserve more of a voice!); ridiculous debate scheduling; and DNC putting their finger on the scale to over ride the voters.

[JDPriestly]

284. Many who voted for Reagan left the Party after the 1968 debacle.

I see that same corruption that led to the 1968 debacle destroying the Party again.

I have been a Democrat and as often as possible a grass-roots working Democrat since 1952. I missed voting in one local election and during years when I was not living in this country. Other than that, I have been a solid Democrat.

But I am sick of the corruption that Hillary represents.

[LiberalFighter]

285. You are absolutely right!

[tularetom]

306. Makes no difference, they won't vote for her and she won't win without independent votes

Half of Democrats think she's a crook.

[creatives4innovation]

324. I know a lifelong Dem

That's already voted for Sanders. I understand she's in the process of re-registering as a Green. She tells me it's not an empty gesture, rather she no longer wants to be associated with the party. She was in it, not only as a committee member but an activist.

[bvar22]

414. You can buy this:

I joined the Democratic Party in 1967 when I was old enough, but handed out leaflets for JFK in 1960. I have voted or Caucused in every election and Primary since then, always voting the straight Democratic ticket in the General Elections.

I have stuffed envelopes, distributed signs and stickers, burned shoe leather canvassing, worn out my dialing finger, and donated far beyond my means.
With a Hillary nomination, that all ends.

I can't even recognize the party I joined in 1967, neither would FDR, HST, Dwight Eisenhower (Republican FAR to The Left of Hillary), or LBJ.
THAT Working Class Party is GONE.

No, I don't believe the Party will miss piddly little vote.
By its actions, the Party has demonstrated over the last 35 years that it doesn't care about my dirty hands Working Class Butt.

[McKim]

438. So with you, Bvar

Yes, sadly, this is what it has come down to for me.

[Chicago1980]

461. He was never in it either.

At least until he kicked off his campaign.

[Hekate]

505. Bingo, frazzled. What a stupid gesture to announce one is "leaving" a party one has never been in.nt

[Buddyblazon]

537. I'm a registered democrat...

and have been since the day I turned 18. I've voted for the dem nominee in every election. Even every down ticket vote and even every midterm.

At 43, I'm changing my registration to Independent after this primary. Heck I've already caucused in my state. The first chance I get to change my affiliation I will.

You're welcome to explain that one.

[Gore1FL]

539. So you don't think the Democratic Party needs to grow?

That is pretty short-sighted, IMO.

[frazzled]

542. I don't think it needs to shrink

I might predict that large numbers of African American voters who are reliable voters would stay at home if Sanders should be the nominee on the ticket in November (which isn't going to happen, but IF). Especially after last night's incredibly leaden, insulting gaffe displaying his complete misunderstanding of black Americans in the 21st century.

[Gore1FL]

546. Just out of curiosity,

What "incredibly leaden, insulting gaffe displaying his complete misunderstanding of black Americans in the 21st century." I didn't watch the debate.

[frazzled]

550. I think it's all over the Internet and in the news, but here

It might come as a surprise to Sanders, but not all black people live in ghettos (a term that hasn't been used much since the 80s, btw), and 72% of them do not live in poverty. (While a whole lot of white people do). And please, don't say "what's wrong with that?"

3. Sanders once again seemed oblivious on racial issues.
The biggest gaffe of the night was his response to a pretty straightforward question: “What racial blind spots do you have?”
His answer showed he has plenty. "When you are white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto, you don’t know what it’s like to be poor, you don’t know what it’s like to be hassled when you are walking down a street or dragged out of a car," Sanders said.
This, of course, suggests that there are not poor whites and non-poor African Americans. It shows the degree to which the democratic socialist views everything through a class-based lens.
African American voters accounted for 23 percent of the Democratic electorate in Michigan in the 2008 primary. He’s already trailing badly among this constituency, and talking about “the ghetto” is not going to help close the gap.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/category/the-daily-202/?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_daily202

[Gore1FL]

564. This pretty much proves that when you are looking for something to complain about

You'll find something to complain about.

[Herman4747]

568. +1! n/t

[peacebird]

627. I am a dem, voted D for over 40 years. IF Hillary gets the nom I will switch to Indie

The DLC/ThirdWay have dragged the Dems so far right that they are really the moderate Rs of my youth.

[TheCowsCameHome]

2. IBTL, and

her supporters really think she can make it on her own.

Without Sanders supporters, she can't.

[pinebox]

4. You're 100% correct

[Autumn]

5. It's stunning that the Democratic party has come to this. I say that as a lifelong Democrat

who had left the party, returned to caucus for Bernie and left the day after. It wasn't a protest on my behalf, Bernie won Colorado. The democratic party just doesn't represent my values.

I won't do the lesser of two evils, I won't vote out of fear again.

[RKP5637]

137. The only reason I remain registered D is to keep the republicans from banging on my door. If you're

independent, the republicans come a knocking. UGH!

[Autumn]

223. We have Unaffiliated. Since I switched I haven't received a call, mail or anything.

I switched after Dimon was whipping votes for the Omnibus bill, when Bernie announced I switched back to democrat so I could caucus for him, during that time I got stuff from the democratic party. I imagine that will stop now.

[CoffeeCat]

152. You represent what so many are saying

You are definitely not alone. This is not uncommon.

Who are the leaders in our party who will address this? Because it needs to be addressed.

Is the entire party, led by the utter failure Debbie Wasserman Schultz, going to remain in denial until it's too late?

I've got friends who have been lifelong Democrats who will not vote for Clinton under any circumstances. We all agree that the reasons that we didn't like her in 2008, and went for Obama--only worsened.

She's been endorsed by the founder of PNAC, Robert Kagan--for the love of God. Kagan was one of her foreign-policy advisers while she was SOS. Her Wall Street connections are utterly indefensible.

I still have faith. I think some of the Democratic party apparatus are starting to understand that this is real.

One person does not define the Democratic party. I never left the Democratic party. I'm still here, with the same values and political beliefs that I had three decades ago--when I cast my first vote!

Running an out-of-the closet neocon and Wall Street kow tower is not in line with me, or the base of the party.

[jwirr]

418. And the sooner the establishment recognizes this the better.

If they continue to be pushed by the Clinton machine they are only helping her pull the party to pieces.

Our youth are our future and they do not want what she is selling.

[Adrahil]

6. So... vote for Bernie or we quit?

Anyone who refuses to vote for Hillary int he GE is a moron.

The same would hold true for anyone who would refuse to support Bernie is he got the nom.

I swear to Jeebus. It's like dealing with a kid who refuses to eat if they can't eat pizza.

[pinebox]

10. Cute let's call people names

That will certainly get those Sanders supporters to vote even more for Hillary.
No, it's like dealing with this when it comes to corporate Dems & how you want things to change. A total car wreck.

[Adrahil]

21. It's pretty simple really.

The Democrat or the Republican will be the next President. If you do not vote for the one, you are effectively supporting the other.

Yup, I think if someone refuses to support the Democrat in this election, they are a moron. I make no apology for that.

[pinebox]

64. Then perhaps offer up a candidate who actually fires up the base

Unless you want Gore.
You can't expect people to vote for a candidate who they overwhelmingly see as distrustful and who has an enthusiasm problem

[hack89]

296. Judging from the popular vote that candidate is not Bernie

it was a fatal misjudgment to place his hopes on a group that historically votes in low numbers.

[pinebox]

498. You mean that group that helped get Obama elected?

Ya those guys

[hack89]

509. The group that is now not voting for Bernie

Looks like they have returned to their usual behavior.

[RBInMaine]

495. Why does the "base" need to be titillated into voting? They need to please GROW UP!

We have the chance to elect first the woman president who is brilliant, PROGRESSIVE, and will take the fight to the very guts of the R's. What do you want to do, have Frankentrump as President? Seriously, people who WHINE and MOAN like spoiled little brats because they didn't get their first choice need to return to kindergarten.

[pinebox]

499. Quit the history rewrite. Hillary is as progressive as Reagan.

Period.
Full stop.

[VulgarPoet]

580. +1

[Jamaal510]

507. +1

[ejbr]

85. Proud moron here!

[RiverLover]

95. What is really pretty simple, really

Is the possible choice between a republican who calls themself a republican and one who doesn't.

[Shadowflash]

208. Yup.

If Donald Trump wins the presidency over Hillary Clinton, it's not the fault of people like me who won't vote for Republicans. It's the fault of the Democratic Party for nominating a Republican.

[Adrahil]

230. Anyone who thinks Clinton is the same as Cruz or Trump is a moron. NT

[Enthusiast]

256. We just can't be sure about Hillary. Can't be sure. She says a lot of things. All over the map.

Back and forth. In and out. Off and on. Up is down and down is up.

[A Simple Game]

250. Moron, really? Come on you can do better than that!

Why I and my kind have been called Fucking Retards by one of your kind and the best you can do is moron? Don't you want to emulate your mentor Rahm?

But don't despair too much, because of you and others like you I will again leave the Democratic party after the New York primary. Thanks for helping me make that decision.

As for the general election? I will vote for the most liberal candidate available; do you think that will be Hillary?

Keep up your "Party before Country" attitude and see how long your party lasts.

[MADem]

451. +1.

Of course, the response you'll get to that is "But but but if the Democrat isn't Bernie, then eff yew!"

I think it's funny that people complaining when you raise arguments about maturity end up effectively doubling down on an immature outlook.

I'm voting for the Democratic nominee. Whosoever he or she may be. Even if it's not my first choice.

I'm not going to "take my ball and go home."

I'm going to take my ball and whip it at GOP knees, and hopefully I will help to kneecap them.

They need to be cut off at the pass. I will lead and follow, but I won't get outta the way.

[ghostsinthemachine]

14. Precisely.

Yeah HRC ain't my favorite but I ain't gonna vote for one of them other idiots just cuz Bernie isn't the nominee. That would be stupid.

[Adrahil]

26. Thanks. I feel the same way.

Bernie isn't my first choice, but I would vote for him in a heart beat.

[stonecutter357]

24. +1000

[Dragonfli]

62. This one refused to vote for Hillary in the GE is he a moron?

In fact, the documents released today show a meeting that Hillary chaired at the White House on November 10, 1993 where she promoted the passage of NAFTA to 120 people. Reports are coming out in every news agency pointing out the contradictions between her stated positions since announcing her bid for the Presidency and everything before that.

One of the things you would expect of someone who really has good experience and judgment is that they can articulate a basic set of principles and positions on issues that they can run on and defend and that stay relatively static. I'm not saying you have to stick to them in the face of overwhelming evidence that one of your positions has been proven to be wrong, like George W. Bush does, even someone who has good experience and judgment occasionally changes their mind. That is not what we have with Hillary. Hillary gives a different opinion on the same subjects every couple of weeks depending on her audience and what she thinks it will net her. As evidence of this is now coming out and is going to be presented to the American people in the starkest terms, how can one be expected to trust her to do anything that she says she is going to do? How can one really know what she believes or intends to do about anything? The only things Hillary's experience seems to be good for is perfecting how to talk out of both sides of her mouth, engaging in the politics of personal destruction and other aspects of her ruthless pursuit of power that remind one of what a Karl Rove might do. That kind of person ought not to be the Democratic

This link is in my favorites because I find the authors opinion astute regarding her constantly changing, and her Karl Rove nature.

[Adrahil]

232. He was then. He's wised up since then. NT

[Dragonfli]

252. Like with a cloth or something

No, he just took on her traits and penchant for reversal of beliefs depending on the weather.

[Dawgs]

83. Why is it moronic? We get center-right Hillary or far-right Cruz or Trump.

Either way it will be too late for most of us.

[Adrahil]

234. It's moronic because.....

as even Bernie says, on her WORST day, Clinton is a million times better than either of those guys.

[eggplant]

93. Wow, did you miss the mark.

You sound like someone who sees someone on a hunger strike and assumes its because he can't get a vegan entrée.

Try looking just a little bit deeper, maybe.

[Adrahil]

239. Here's the thing....

Either the Dem or the Rep is going to be President. However "deep" you wanna go, that's the reality. And that reality will have actual consequences.

[eggplant]

351. It doesn't excuse your offensive statement.

"It's like dealing with a kid who refuses to eat if they can't eat pizza."

It's nothing like that, and if you persist in claiming that it is, you serve only to drive a wedge further between the groups you are exhorting to come together to defeat a common foe.

Until you acknowledge the legitimacy of the issues concerning Sanders supporters, you remain part of the problem, not the solution. We aren't whiny kids, we have real grievances, and there are enough of us to be take seriously. Denigrating us only makes us more resolute.

Just because we don't agree with your position doesn't mean we didn't understand it the first hundred times it was explained. And you are right, there are consequences. Clinton would have a much harder time in the GE than Sanders. Maybe you would be better off conceding that point, and getting behind the stronger candidate.

[Blue State Bandit]

105. I salute your astute observation.

[pdsimdars]

126. Got the analogy wrong

More like a kid who refuses to eat YOUR food because you POISONED him too many times before so he's not falling for that stuff again.

[Adrahil]

240. LOL, another ridiculous post.

You will have TWO choices. Whatever happens, ONE of them will be President.

You can choose to participate in reality or not.

[The Far Left]

337. Which reality does Hillary represent?

"Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time” Harry S Truman

[VulgarPoet]

610. Depends, what direction is the wind blowing in? nt

[PatrickforO]

148. I guess there will be lots or morons out there.

Because Clinton does not represent the best interests, particularly the economic ones, of myself, my family or I believe the American people. She represents the interests of Wall Street and the MIC.

I honestly don't believe she cares for people like me at all. So, you know, the Dem party may suffer a very rude awakening. This WHOLE election cycle is a popular protest against the establishment, and if the Dems run a candidate perceived as an establishment candidate, that candidate will lose.

Personally, though I haven't come to a FINAL decision yet, I will tell you that I'm fucking sick of voting for the Third Way establishment Democratic candidate, because, "Hey, look, they suck LESS than the Republican." I'm so sick of it that I may not be able to do it this time. And I certainly PROMISE, whatever my decision is this time around, that I will NEVER do it in future. I'm about this close to re-registering as an Independent and saying 'fuck you and farewell' to the Democratic Party.

The sad truth is that I never really 'left' the Democratic party. It 'left' me by moving so far right.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

205. The morons are the one voting for a closet republican.

Real progressives are voting for Bernie. Join us, or you destroy the party and get Herr Drumpf!

[elmac]

162. This is one HUGE Bernie supporter

who will vote for HRC if need be, because I want SS, Medicare, Obamacare and a progressive supreme Court and am unwilling to give those things up just because I got my feelings hurt.

[VulgarPoet]

611. I'll vote Hillary in the GE if it absolutely comes down to that point

I'll be drunk as fuck and staggering to the mailbox to send off my ballot, but it'll happen. Then, when I've had a chance to sleep off the whiskey, I'm figuring out how to change my affiliation via mail in Texas.

[Shadowflash]

195. 'Anyone who refuses to vote for Hillary int he GE is a moron.'

Such a reasoned an well though out argument.

Thank you for your opinion, now you can go back to eating your paste.

[ThePhilosopher04]

217. Wrong.

Anyone who votes for Hillary is a moron.

[Autumn]

236. It's a protest thing. You don't have to be a registered democrat to vote in the GE

I swear to Jeebus people should read the article. They are not advocating not voting in the GE it's a protest to attempt change things inside the Democratic party. It is a movement to say goodbye to the Democratic National Committee.

If we the people of the Democratic party were to join forces and get 5 million or 10 million people to leave enmasse and go to a NEW better party, even if we vote democratic in the generals, and switch back for the next primary season, if we were to do that before the Super Delegates cast their vote, they would be a LOT more hesitant to go against us. When the DNC sees that Debbie Wash-her-shitz single handedly caused a mass exodus from the party, and that she and Hillary Clinton are dividing this party, NOT uniting it, then and only then can we truly get change inside the Democratic party.

[Adrahil]

243. Wanna make a change in the party? Participate!

My local party had been taken over by self-interested local business types. They traded offices and favors back and forth. One group said they were going to form an alternate party, which failed utterly. Another (mine) decided to get involved. We threw the bums out. It works. Get involved in your local party.

[Autumn]

261. I have for over 40 years. nt

[noamnety]

269. I think of it more like dealing with a kid

who is told they need to drink some water - and then is given a choice of Flint water or fracking water to drink.

[floppyboo]

301. It's like dealing with a kid who refuses to eat if they can't eat pizza.

Sounds like Ghandi, and just look where that got him

[chervilant]

319. Condescension

and name-calling is NOT going to change the fact that thousands of registered Democrats DO NOT LIKE AND WILL NOT VOTE for Hi11ary.

Your rudeness about Bernie supporters will not change this grim reality about a woman whose integrity has long been compromised by her love of money.

[oldandhappy]

7. I am only one

But I have been registered Dem most of my adult life and I will be changing to Ind the day after our primary.

[pinebox]

13. Many are following in your footsteps

[Old Codger]

68. Me too

We have mail in here and have to be Dem to vote for Bernie,I will drop my ballot into the mail and log on and change my affiliation 5 mins later

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

214. I wish I could do that, because I would!

But in Wisconsin we don't need to register an affiliation, we can vote for whomever we want. I've been voting Dem for over 40 years, but I just may have to vote Green next time.

[PonyUp]

357. Same. Changing to unaffiliated. nt

[Barack_America]

443. Me too.

[vintx]

8. I won't do it ... not yet anyway.

We'll see how many more dirty tricks are pulled between now and July.

[Armstead]

11. I don't think that's a very good idea

Looks too much like a temper tantrum.And don't want trump.

Though I do favor somehow using the leverage of all of the enthusiasm Sanders has generated to send a clear message over time

[pinebox]

19. A temper tantrum?

Nawwwww people are sick and tired of this and you know what, they should be.

[senz]

36. Wow. And Walmart is in the tank for Hillary, too.

Figures.

[Armstead]

97. I'm sick of that kind of crap too

But I want the ideas and energy that Sanders has generated to have a longer term effect

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511425305

[stonecutter357]

27. +1

[senz]

44. Aw...hoping to limit the damage done by your candidate?

Should have thought about that.

[fredamae]

57. I see it as a difinitive line drawn in sand -

no more-more of the same.
I believe they actually Mean it this time-again-but the benefactors from decades of those voters "getting in line" (Enabling the corruption) at the last minute-holding noses and voting Against the Worst candidate-instead of For the Best candidate....should not be ignoring, demeaning, insulting and demoralizing these voters (again). Especially post 900+ Dem Seats lost Nationally. Can't "they see the handwriting on the wall? Do they even Care who wins cuz it's All for Corp now????
LOW Turnout in 2010 has thoroughly fucked up our very democracy.
Don't underestimate the Anger (again) from those who are That Pissed OFF. They - after-all Drew that Line in the Sand in 2010 which gave is the Tea Party controlled government...you believe their afraid Now?

[dana_b]

71. and the Millenials arent inclined to listen to threats

I know, I live with a couple.

If you tell them to "get in line", they may offer you a certain finger and walk out the door.

[fredamae]

199. Good for them -

This Boomer stands (and walks out-middle finger extended) with them
I have 4 voting millennial grandkids - they also agree.

[Armstead]

106. I agree....We Do have to draw a line in the sand.

I just don't think the symbolism of that act would make a difference.

It would end up with blowback against real reform like the was after 2000 and the "Blame Nader" sentiment.

I want them to take it seriously instead of just gioving them an excuse to blow it off and "Blame Bernie"

[fredamae]

218. I'm sure they'll try-but I doubt that'll

work again.
Politicians really need to toss the old playbook(s). Nothing is the same. New electoral history - complete with obvious corporate rigging - is being made everyday.

I see your point but Any attempt at real reform - at least at this juncture will be met with blowback....yet in 2016, I don't see the proverbial blowback being as effective as it once was. Too much fresh air (Truth, Fact, Awareness) has been injected into daily conversations now. Dots Connected, They cannot turn back the tide now imo

[pdsimdars]

267. Honestly, that is a stupid argument - blaming your LOSS because people voted for the other candidate

That is why EVERY candidate loses, because people voted for the other candidate.
It is just making excuses for your candidate.
If you want to win then you should select a winning candidate.
That seems simple enough.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. Ask the GOP in my state how that has gone for them

[Armstead]

114. I don't know about the GOP ion your state...But I don't want to see....

something that will merely trigger a "Blame Bernie" backlash like the "blame Nader" crap diffused real reform in 2000.

I also don't want Trump,.

[nadinbrzezinski]

153. It will regardless

And the left will just keep punishing. In my state the GOP has bled so many voters that they are having money issues. National moneys are allocated by party size. The DNC has similar rules. They have been barely maintaining. I am willing to bet this year they will start the major exodus, for similar reasons. When you give the middle finger to environmentalists and take solar out of a county platform, a county where those granola munching environmentalists got a cap passed...well there are two choices...Green Party, or...Republicans.

On the bright side the local republicans are too dogmatic to see that one.

[Dawgs]

91. It would only be temper tantrum if Hillary or Bernie were similar. n/t

[oldandhappy]

450. DNC need glasses! Want them to wake up

to a vibrant people group. They see only corporate money. Well, that sounds mean. But it sort of is the way I see things.

[SidDithers]

12. ...

Sid

[pinebox]

23. Who said anything about Trump

I find it amazing that people automatically assume that is the end choice. Go read the damn article Sid. You obviously didn't.

[SidDithers]

38. I did read it...

I was especially impressed by the author. He seems to be a real insider with lots of influence.

Patrick Curl
Patrick is a geek, coder, developer in Rails, AngularJS, Laravel, Django, and is looking for a job in Utah area or surrounding states.

ETA:

The day after my primary, I’m leaving the party, joining the GREEN Party who’s PLATFORM is identical to Bernie Sanders. If the Democratic Party doesn’t want to be Progressive, there’s millions of us who can go join a party that does, eventually you’ll see you can never beat a Republican with a party that’s half as strong as it used to be, and you’ll also join the green party, and then the Democratic party will remain as a shell, and only the establishment will remain.

If Bernie loses, steps out, or isn’t on the ballot in November, WE are voting for Jill Stein. Many are picking up the banner, you think Gore had a Nader Problem? Liberals and Progressives LIKED Gore, they do NOT Like Clinton at ALL. Let THAT sink in.

Give us a candidate who we can vote in, or you’ll be sorry, and you’ll get Trump, we really don’t care… Bush destroyed the country and a more progressive leader emerged in Obama, but even he was a corporate controlled puppet, or there’d be bankers in prison. If we need a TRUMP Presidency to destroy us again before a Progressive candidate can emerge, so be it — it’s your choice. Vote for Hillary and lose the Progressive vote, or vote for Bernie and we all come into the fold and stop dividing the party.

https://medium.com/@patrickcurl/the-day-after-my-primary-i-m-leaving-the-party-joining-the-green-party-who-s-platform-is-aa8d2a9e833b#.6xw1eet6d


Sid

[pinebox]

135. Read this

#neverhillary
#bernieorbust
#HillNo

And read what tens of thousands of people are saying.

[SidDithers]

139. Sounds like you agree with them...

Or is this just a public service announcement.

Sid

[pinebox]

146. I said this

In my OP

Personally I'm not on the #BernieOrBust train but here is a glimpse into what many of us have been saying.

[Broward]

15. The Democratic Party left them a long time ago.

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. Trying to break Guinness World record for sore loser temper tantrum

Sad nap.

[pinebox]

31. It's a temper tantrum when people fight for what they believe in?

Please be sure to tell these people that.

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. There there

[silvershadow]

72. It's a temper tantrum? I haven't ever left the spot I occupy. Labor. The party's 80-year roots.

The New Deal.

I am not one who is actively planning to leave. But I am one who knows what I stand for. I will follow Bernie's lead. If he loses, I will wait to hear what he has to say before jumping the gun.

[PatrickforO]

165. That's cool.

I like that sentiment. Bernie has become the ideological leader of our party. We'll see what he says, won't we?

Bernie can still win it, though. And, if an indictment against Clinton comes down, he will be the nominee even if he doesn't quite have as many delegates.

I'll tell you this, though. If Clinton is the nominee, I will have to hold my nose pretty hard to vote for her. Honestly, if it is between Clinton and Stein, the Green Party best represents my own ideology and I may go that way. The Democratic Party has moved way too far right for the good of the American people.

I'm pretty fucking sick of being threatened. If the Dems don't get back to the New Deal roots, then fuck them.

[CrispyQ]

339. Ditto this: "...I will have to hold my nose pretty hard to vote for her."

They've been playing this game for 30 years. I hardly recognize the Democratic party.

[Rilesome]

463. If she is the what represents democratic values.

I'd say we're down to a one party system.

[VulgarPoet]

584. I'll be drunkenly staggering to the mailbox to put my absentee ballot in

and then promptly filing to change to Independent. This party has left me, and tens of thousands so far like me behind. The two party system is failing, and hopefully, it fails hard enough that we need to replace it. Think the hard drive of a computer spinning out hard enough to start smoking.

[Qutzupalotl]

79. That's sure to win independents to your side.

[sufrommich]

113. They are 2016's PUMAs. And just like 2008's PUMAs

they'll prove themselves to be all bark and no bite.

[alcibiades_mystery]

192. Folks act like this is their first rodeo: oh, we're in the "we won't vote for the nominee" stage

OK, then.

Remember when Obama was going to lose the general because Hillary PUMAs were "departing en masse."

SMDH.

[zalinda]

235. Obama and Hillary were like

conjoined twins, it really didn't matter which one was the nominee. This time it is different. Bernie and Hillary are worlds a part even if Hillary supporters don't see it.

Z





'There Are None So Blind As Those Who Will Not See'

[pdsimdars]

161. I guess the founding fathers were having a REAL tantrum when they decided to declare Independence ?

That would be where your logic takes us.
Some of us believe in the American spirit and want to keep it alive. No subservience for us.

[alcibiades_mystery]

188. ROFL

I'll give you this: y'all have a remarkably high opinion of yourselves! Founding Fathers now!



Keep on, homie.

[chervilant]

342. Ick.

Another rude and condescending post from a Hi11ary supporter?

Why am I not surprised?

Well, I guess it's time to update my IL again.

[rhett o rick]

406. Why would you think to call them sore losers? You think that will hurt their feelings?

If Goldman-Sachs/Clinton win the primary, then they will have lost in a rigged contest. They have every reason to be sore. They see their families and friends losing jobs, homes, education opportunities, retirements and their infrastructure crumbling. I am sore about 50,000,000 Americans living in poverty and you should be also. Better believe that if Goldman-Sachs wins the presidency, NOTHING WILL IMPROVE. Oh they will blame it on the hapless Republicons in their con game, "oh my oh my we tried to save SS but the mean Republicons destroyed it."

It's time to choose sides in this class war and Goldman-Sachs/Clinton/Corp-Media are not on the side of the 99%.

The hubris of the Aristocracy and their minions will be their downfall.

[wyldwolf]

17. sore losers

[oldandhappy]

22. no, eyes wide open

[wyldwolf]

25. sore losers

[timmymoff]

94. You can not will

people to support your candidate's corporate stances once they have had enough of the corporate stances. We aren't into Hillary because she isn't in to us. You don't immediately drop your negotiating price for minimum wage $3.00 from the start. That's not how things get done. That's not standing up for workers that's selling them out before the fight even starts. Her corporate coziness, and the democrats as well, is truly the issue. We have seen to many contradictory things from your candidate to know where her truth really lies? That was me being generous to her. Deep down, we know she is on the side of business more than workers. It isn't remotely close to being sore losers, it's more like having a complete belly full of that nonsense.

[wyldwolf]

132. sore losers

[Pat Riots]

117. not sore

have not even lost yet.

ha ha ha. keep digging the hole.

[pdsimdars]

163. Braino deado

[wyldwolf]

166. PUMA - Bernie style

[timmymoff]

175. Who would know about PUMA

more than Hillary supporters? No, again you can't claim to be against corporations paying a low wage like Wal-mart and then accept money from them. You see no issue with that, or you choose not to see an issue with that? You can't say you will curb Wall St. by taking speaking fees. Even if it is totally innocent, which it isn't, as seen by votes and proposals to harm americans, it is perceived as shady at best. Your not choosing to grasp this is your own fault, not ours.

[wyldwolf]

176. Apparently you and Bernie

[timmymoff]

194. Your short answers are cute,

but Bernie , if he loses, will endorse Hillary. Trust me Hillary it's you, it's not me. Your supporters will have to do without my help, money, time, and possibly vote. You just aren't trustworthy dear Hillary, you have to many contradictions and new evolutions that coincide with another person's platform. We know you don't really mean it, we can tell by your track record.

[senz]

257. Some day, believe me, that phrase will fit you to a T.

It's evident.

[wyldwolf]

262. but until then, it fits you to a T

[senz]

315. This win/lose mentality

originates in little-boy sports competitions and marks an individual as immature.

I have a feeling you're not an adolescent; therefore, it's way past time to complete the growth process.

Believe me, men are a thousand times better than boys and women are preferable to girls. So there are many good reasons to get on with it. Not only that, it's fun -- so good luck!

[yodermon]

212. What is your (and Hillay's) strategy to woo these sore losers

over to Hillay's side and actually vote for her?
Calling them names?
If there are really enough of them to lose the election for her, shouldn't there be a proactive strategy to bring them over instead of just insulting them?
Or are you content to lose the General so long as you have them to blame for the loss? Shrug you shoulders, punch the dirty ducking hippies, then wash your hands?

It's like, you see the river flowing In a direction you don't like, so you yell at the individual water molecules for being stupid, instead of trying to engineer a way to redirect the flow.

(and of course I will vote for the dem nominee, there's your fucking shibboleth)

[fun n serious]

393. NONE

Can not swoon what was NEVER there. We will win he GE with or without y'all. Wait and see. One thing we will not do is respond to tantrums and threats

[jillan]

289. Losers? You really don't get it. There comes a time

When people have been pushed a little too hard and finally say Enough!!

[wyldwolf]

294. I hear that every election cycle.

[Gore1FL]

540. Considering the Dem track record over the last 35 years. maybe someone should start listening. n/t

[840high]

325. not at all - people who

want what's best for the country and it's people.

[rhett o rick]

404. I am sore that Democrats would support the Clinton Aristocracy and abandon their principles.

The Aristocracy with their Wall Street ties will never help the 99%. They prey on the 99%.

It's a class war and the Clinton Aristocracy is not on our side.

[The Traveler]

479. Not at all

Many are choosing to continue fighting for what they believe in, rather than to acquiesce to the plutocracy's preferred candidate.

This fight has just begun. You ain't seen nothin' yet.

Trav

[Cobalt Violet]

523. I know you are but what am I?

so childish.

[oldandhappy]

18. Guess I want to add that where I am

has a lot to do with lies and manipulation and feeling the difference between corporation choosing and people choosing. I am sorry some of you think I should vote for Clinton at all costs. Nope. Starting with Obama I vote as i wish, not as strategists wish.

[vintx]

34. LIES AND MANIPULATION <- this is it exactly

I've been a yellow dog dem my whole life.

This election, that may change.

[cprise]

133. And DNC SuperPAC money.

[sufrommich]

20. Every poll says otherwise.

Most Sanders supporters will vote for Clinton. This is 3rd party ratfucking.

[pinebox]

47. Link please?

Because you call it "ratfucking" but I call it reality & here's another movement http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/solidarity-bernie-sanders-socialist-launches-wont-vote-hillary-website

[sufrommich]

84. .....

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2015/12/16/bernie-sanders-voters-hillary-clinton-poll/77414862/

[pinebox]

142. Awesome thanks

I will say this, I think most will BUT I also think those are Dems who support Bernie, not necessarily Indy voters who are supporting Bernie.

This however....

What’s more, a majority of Sanders supporters — 59 % — said they would be OK if Clinton bested their candidate and won the Democratic nomination.

is an absolute disaster and THAT is what I am talking about. That is 41% of Sanders supporters who will NOT support Hillary. Think about how huge a number that is. Hello Republican landslide.

[JTFrog]

167. Better keep tossing those coins in the well. n/t

[ChiciB1]

307. The Date Is December 2015! Things Have Changed! n/t

[ChiciB1]

305. What Does The Date December 2015 Mean At The Beginning Of The Article? n/t

[NastyRiffraff]

174. They launched a website!!!!!!!

That means they're a MOVEMENT!! A big one!! A POWERFUL one! The website will WIN for Bernie!!!!!!!!!

Sheesh.

[pinebox]

373. It's sad that you don't see it and are blind. 41% of Bernie supporters say #HillNo!

[NastyRiffraff]

533. 100% of Bernie supporters

say that. That's what supporting Bernie and not Hillary means. I hope the real Democrats will vote for the nominee, but I don't think most of the posters here will. No great loss, either; they were never Democrats.

[pinebox]

577. Actually they don't

and if you care to go diggin' in this thread you will see the link that a HILLARY SUPPORTER posted to the article that states 41% of Bernie supporters according to a USA Today poll won't support Hillary.

They were never Democrats? Is that the new meme? If it is I don't like your "Democrats".

[NastyRiffraff]

592. Go diggin' in this thread

And you'll see that poster after poster says that they were an independent and became Democrats only to vote for Bernie. Nothing wrong with that, but that's what they've said, over and over.

[RiverLover]

511. This is the Democratic Party not being Democratic.

Even the primary isn't Democratic.

[Zynx]

29. In 1979, in the UK, the left did this very thing.

How did that turn out?

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. They got the third way

But the DNC is already the third way.

That is not a threat

[TubbersUK]

100. Not quite sure what you're saying here

re the UK left in 1979, can you expand ?

ETA: I don't understand the parallel that you've drawn based on what I remember of that period in UK, but I'm open to persuasion.

[stonecutter357]

30. .

[pinebox]

54. I know it is hilarious

[zappaman]

32. Ok.

[edbermac]

33. Jury results.

I was juror 7

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
On Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:15 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Tens of thousands to leave Democratic party the day after their primaries in protest
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511425503

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Posting is trying to encourage people not to vote for the Democratic nominee if it is Hillary

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:24 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter is full of it. Post says "Personally I'm not on the #BernieOrBust train". There's no encouragement.
Is the alerter a Hillary Group Host?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: You are kidding right? Wow. I cannot even think of why this post got flagged.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter, go take a nap.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[TheCowsCameHome]

50. Aw, come now, who alerted?

Want to fess up? Too bad a simple "ban" won't work here, eh?

[pinebox]

59. lol Alerter obviously didn't actually read my post

Because if they did they would have seen

Personally I'm not on the #BernieOrBust train but here is a glimpse into what many of us have been saying.

[kath]

115. There are a fair number of people here who have *significant* reading comprehension problems.

And other literacy, critical thinking, and logic issues.

But it wouldn't be right to say what camp they tend to be in.

[Old Codger]

86. If ignorance is bliss

These alerters must be in hog heaven...

[MaggieD]

35. Worlds briefest Democratic party members

They should call them "Democrats for a day"

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

157. Sigh. I wish it were that simple.

I've been a registered Democrat since 1975. 41 years. I feel disgusted and the party feels torn apart. I'm considering changing to an independent designation for the first time in my life. I don't feel like I belong anymore. The big tent sure is shrinking.

[retrowire]

187. mocking something that damages the party eh?

MEMBERS ONLY LOL

[MaggieD]

207. Do you miss them already?

Not me.

[retrowire]

227. They could have benefitted your party as a whole.

But... you want to pretend you're apart of an elite so... LOL

[MaggieD]

251. No they couldn't have

Because they are not Democrats and never had any intention of being Democrats.

[retrowire]

276. Well, maybe if the Democratic Party actually upheld it's beliefs?

Maybe if it were more inclusive? You're a fine example actually! Maybe if the party weren't caught up in this elitist mentality that was so proud of it's letter (D) and color blue?

[MaggieD]

299. They do

We are not the party of extremist socialists, no matter how much you heart desires that to be true. Your best bet is to do the hard work of starting and building the socialist party instead of trying to co-opt our party into that.

[retrowire]

347. Hear that everyone?

You read it right here folks, Bernie's positions are all extremist socialist ideas and they AREN'T Democratic ideals!

Then why is Hillary adopting so many of them? Hmmm...

Good to hear that Medicare for All, Living Wages, the reigning in of Wall St, more jobs, ending disastrous trade deals , etc are NOT what the Democratic Party stands for. We heard it first, right here from a true blue Democrat themselves people.

Hey, you said it, not me. And I'm amazed.

[dreamnightwind]

433. When you finally get down to what Hillary supporters are really supporting

it is extremely sad.

FDR Democrats = Bernie's Democraic Socialism, a much closer match than FDR to DLC/Hillary.

FDR welcomed their hatred, Bernie welcomes their hatred, Hillary welcomes their checks. Pretty much all anyone needs to know.

[Rilesome]

478. Post offices, police Dept.s, firefighters, social security,

What's the difference? We've already supported many socialist policies.

[cantbeserious]

37. Could This Be Part Of The Reason - HRC Is Owned By The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-27/snowden-sums-presidential-campaign-just-one-tweet

[redstateblues]

48. Same old smears. Still no proof of quid pro quo

[pinebox]

67. Here's your proof

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/07/facebook-posts/meme-says-hillary-clintons-top-donors-are-banks-an/

[pdsimdars]

171. Come on, you are in denial

There are numerous examples. That bankruptcy bill Warren talked about. Then there's the single payer she advocated for, got lots of pharma money and now single payer will never happen in the US (when every other developed nation seems to be able to do it easily enough).
I bet there are HUNDREDS of exmaples. But that is Hillary and your talking point and you are sticking to it, despite all proof otherwise. Typical.

[Enthusiast]

278. What more proof could any reasonable person want? My God!

If she didn't say anything incriminating she should just release the transcripts. Many of us have serious doubts.

[earthside]

102. A Repuglican or a Repuglican.

If (heaven forbid) Mrs. Clinton is the nominee of the Democratic party, well, the choice will be between a Rockefeller Repuglican and a Tea Party Repuglican.

Not much of a choice.

Of course, the smarmy, snarky, conceited attitude of the Hillarians will only exacerbate her electoral problem ... arguing that anyone who doesn't fall for this 'lesser of two evils' fear-mongering is a moron is one reason why many Sander supporters won't ever vote for Hillary.

"Get on board" in spite of the kind of love between Hillary and the big monied special interests indicated in the chart isn't a very persuasive point in favor of the elite multimillionaire Mrs. Clinton.

Democrats are headed into real trouble ... this turnout for primaries vis-a-vis the Repuglicans is disturbing. The biggest two things that accounts for it, in my estimation, is lack of any enthusiasm among rank-and-file Democrats for Hillary; and the insistence on this "The Inevitable One" meme -- why vote if it isn't going to matter in the end?

Hillarians are going to let their arrogance lead the Democrats to a big defeat in November -- HER is not inevitable -- no matter how stridently they may now insist.

[cantbeserious]

108. Roger That - Reflects Successful Brainwashing By The DNC DWS DLC Third-Way Establishment

eom

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. In my state we don't register by party. It's quite liberating.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

77. Here in Ohio, while we're 'registered', the only time you really do so is at primaries, iirc.

You tell them which ballot you want and you're 'registered' as that party until the next time a primary rolls around and they ask which ballot you want.

[Blue_Adept]

40. Thanks for reminding me why I hate other Sanders supporters

I voted for the man in my primary but despise his supporters that are like this.

Utterly childish behavior and not the way you bring about a revolution.

[cantbeserious]

45. Your Opinion Only - Others See The World Much, Much Differently

eom

[Blue_Adept]

74. No shit, sherlock

Hence posting my opinion. Doesn't invalidate yours, either.

[cantbeserious]

78. No Need For Profanity

eom

[Blue_Adept]

87. No need for capitalizing every first letter either, but people write in different ways

[cantbeserious]

90. Burr In One's Saddle

eom

[coyote]

70. Why?

Why should I participate in a system that works against me? Hillary does not have my best interests in mind, just her corporate pals.

[pinebox]

73. Actually

I get their POV but you know, people are fed up on BOTH sides of the aisle.
I personally think Bernie will be the springboard for the rise of a new party. We shall see.

[Blue_Adept]

81. I don't think they have the ability to form a new party

The amount of work involved is just immense and once you get past this election most of them will just go back to their lives rather than do that heavy work.

[nadinbrzezinski]

127. Actually this base revolt

Will mean either less voting...yay. Or indeed punishment. And form a new party is too much work...fortunately a few that can benefit from this base revolt already exist. I know most do not pay attention, but this has happened in US history in the past.

Of course ideally we should have proportional representation to elect congress. That would, incidentally, break tje duopoly that is not written in the constitution. It defaults to it due to winner take all.

This is a classic base revolt though

[pinebox]

374. I think they do & many have the drive to do so

Of course they just go Green I suppose but we'll see

[BillZBubb]

101. But you just love those Hillary supporters?

[Blue_Adept]

104. I obviously didn't say that

But feel free to put a few more words into my post that weren't there.

[BillZBubb]

112. But you don't hate them like you do Bernie supporters?

[Blue_Adept]

119. It was irrelevant to the conversation at hand

But yes, there are a great many Hillary supporters that I hate as well.

DU is largely Sanders supporters however, so it's simply more prominent here.

[BillZBubb]

145. I don't hate anybody's supporters. I find many of them vexing.

[TM99]

330. Bravo!

Call us children and childish some more.

Come on! Why don't you calling us fucking retards while you are at it? How about calling us unicorn lovers? Or maybe you can call us dirty fucking hippies? Or maybe BernieBros? Or maybe naive kids who just want 'free stuff'.

We are sick of this shit right here. Thanks for illustrating it perfectly why so many adults are sick of this game.

[Blue_Adept]

384. Well, when people are acting like fucking children

it's time to call them out on it.

As for the other things, no, I haven't done that in the slightest here this primary season. But I love your response because it's just an unhinged response to a fellow Sanders supporter.

Rage all you want. It may earn you some fans and followers but it'll also turn off a whole lot of others.

[TM99]

394. Yes, sweetheart, I am

just hear looking for fans and followers.

Do you even read what you write?

Aren't you the brave one for calling out other adults for their choices while castigating them from your condescending fucking perch on high as being childish.

No sweetheart, you are the child. Adults don't act that way to each other if they disagree.

[joshcryer]

377. My state went for Sanders.

We busted our ass to help him win.

Actual Sanders supporters get treated like crap online by the faux ones because we represent Sanders' values.

[Blue_Adept]

383. My state did not go for Sanders

But I did my part by voting for him.

[Hiraeth]

42. how very interesting

[0rganism]

43. either of the Democratic candidates can win this election

much depends on how the Republican race unfolds, whether they nominate Trump or a disgruntled Donald runs a doomed 3rd party bid. remember: the Republican candidate needs at least 40% of the Hispanic vote to win. Trump would bring in what, 20% tops? the other Republicans (Cruz, Rubio, even Kasich) are much scarier in this respect but here's the rub: they have to win outright (very difficult at this point), not through some convention floor-fight magic, or odds are the vulgar talking yam will take offense, fuck off and run an indy campaign. 1992 all over again.

[pinebox]

80. See my post up thread

The one with the screen cap of polls from RCP. She beats Trump by like 1% bit the rest, nope she loses.
Personally I think the RNC is getting ready to put the screw job on Trump after what we all saw with Romney and he will go Indy.

[0rganism]

124. none of the prelim. polling matters if Trump runs indy

Trump will split up the coalition that's been driving Republican victories for the last 50 years.

i've seen the RCP polls, yes they look better for Bernie than Hillary, but it doesn't really matter since they don't poll the 3-way race.

if Trump wins the nomination Democrats are looking at a wave election. best case scenario right there.

if Trump doesn't win the nomination but runs 3rd party, Democrats can hold the white house with either candidate.

the only scenario in which those preliminary national polls look sour is the one where Cruz or Rubio win the nomination straight-up, or Trump decides he's bored of playing the rubes and quits.

[reformist2]

46. I think many Hillary supporters think that somehow everyone will just come around in the end.

They don't appreciate the distrust and dislike that so many people have for the candidate they support.

[zappaman]

49. Classic ratfucking.

It is what it is.

[Qutzupalotl]

66. One could say the same thing about superdelegates.

[redstateblues]

340. Your guy, Tad Devine created super delegates

A bit ironic I'd say

[Qutzupalotl]

371. My "guy." Like I'm supporting Bernie because of Tad.

Give me a fucking break.

Meanwhile, your "gal," DWS, supports Republicans over Democrats:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251911615

Okay, maybe that's not ironic, but it IS reprehensible.

[Enthusiast]

291. That is exactly what it is. It is not playing well. It is confirming all our suspicions about trust.

It almost looks suicidal in nature. Also, when the exit polls do not match the vote count we know with certainty there have been shenanigans.

Why should we put up with that?

[zappaman]

360. Exit polls have always been notoriously unreliable.

But if Sanders supporters think Clinton cheated, I hope that gives them comfort.
I guess it's hard processing that not everyone feels like you do about your candidate.

[Enthusiast]

385. Exit polls are inaccurate when there has been deliberate cheating.

[brooklynite]

51. And "pivotamerica" is.....?

[SidDithers]

58. One guy, Patrick Curl...

whose opinion is:

The day after my primary, I’m leaving the party, joining the GREEN Party who’s PLATFORM is identical to Bernie Sanders. If the Democratic Party doesn’t want to be Progressive, there’s millions of us who can go join a party that does, eventually you’ll see you can never beat a Republican with a party that’s half as strong as it used to be, and you’ll also join the green party, and then the Democratic party will remain as a shell, and only the establishment will remain.

If Bernie loses, steps out, or isn’t on the ballot in November, WE are voting for Jill Stein. Many are picking up the banner, you think Gore had a Nader Problem? Liberals and Progressives LIKED Gore, they do NOT Like Clinton at ALL. Let THAT sink in.

Give us a candidate who we can vote in, or you’ll be sorry, and you’ll get Trump, we really don’t care… Bush destroyed the country and a more progressive leader emerged in Obama, but even he was a corporate controlled puppet, or there’d be bankers in prison. If we need a TRUMP Presidency to destroy us again before a Progressive candidate can emerge, so be it — it’s your choice. Vote for Hillary and lose the Progressive vote, or vote for Bernie and we all come into the fold and stop dividing the party.

https://medium.com/@patrickcurl/the-day-after-my-primary-i-m-leaving-the-party-joining-the-green-party-who-s-platform-is-aa8d2a9e833b#.wuek9u2na

Not sure why the link isn't copying correctly.

Sid

[pinebox]

89. Use this for your links

https://goo.gl/

You're welcome

[Zorra]

608. ....correct. nt

[kstewart33]

53. When a legitimate news source reports this figure, then it will be news.

A legitimate poll would gain real attention and I'd wager that at some point Dems will be polled on this question. But until then, another Berniebot opinion is not news.

If Cruz/Trump wins, we lose Obamacare. Close to 20 million will lose insurance. We lose the Supreme Court and with it, all of the recent gains in gay and civil rights. And that's just the beginning.

It's not a meme, pinebox. It's a fact. So if 'tens of thousands' leave the Dem party, I say good riddance. Because who wants people who will sacrifice all that we will lose, just to make a point? They do not belong in the party. Perhaps they should leave now. At least the Democrat party will consist of true Democrats.

[pinebox]

103. Disagree

Because well.....
It is reported on but people would hate me if I link it here despite it containing links to liberal websites. First result. https://goo.gl/ARrydg

Here are a few others which you might find interesting.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-hanley/if-you-dont-understand-th_b_9377024.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/29/1491714/-The-Bernie-or-Bust-Mindset-Sprouted-From-Organic-Integrity-Not-Rebel-Defiance-or-DNC-Disrespect

You say "It's not a meme, pinebox. It's a fact. So if 'tens of thousands' leave the Dem party, I say good riddance." and you are welcome to your opinion but not your own facts. Hillary will NEED indy voters in order to win. She doesn't have them and never has.

Independents like Hillary Clinton less than in 2008
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/26/independents-like-hillary-clinton-less-than-in-2008/

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=

[vintx]

141. Great post, thanks!

I'm finding a lot of stuff to share here, so it's worth the frustration (still can't get over that thread asking what Wall Street is and why anyone would be against it)

[pinebox]

143. You are welcome and thanks

[madfloridian]

363. You forget the individual right to thought process. You say "good riddance."

I am not a part of any movement to leave the party, but I think it has become so shallow and oriented to one candidate that it has forgotten the needs of the people.

Your words shock me:

So if 'tens of thousands' leave the Dem party, I say good riddance. Because who wants people who will sacrifice all that we will lose, just to make a point? They do not belong in the party. Perhaps they should leave now. At least the Democrat party will consist of true Democrats.

I have belonged since I was eligible to vote. I have never voted anything but Democratic.

Many will not overtly "leave", but they may stay home rather than vote after a primary like this.

[Zorra]

55. Some of us plan to leave the party on the day after the Dem convention

if she is nominated.

[Fuddnik]

98. I came back, just to vote for Bernie.

I plan on leaving again in August after the Florida State Primary, when I vote for Alan Grayson.

[pinebox]

110. I joined just for Bernie

[Zorra]

178. Reagan just keeps on winning, long after his death.

It's sad, how completely the Dem party has become a tool of wealthy private interests.

The propaganda from these wealthy business interests has created a large Dem voting bloc that has been brainwashed into consistently voting against their own best interests, and against the interests of the rest of us who are not wealthy, and/or socially advantaged. Now, we have two parties, and a government, completely controlled by wealthy private interests, and both of these parties have millions of media brainwashed voters who are doing their bidding, beyond all reason, logic, common sense, and compassion for others.

This is no longer the party of the People that I so proudly joined almost a half century ago. I'm tired of banging my head against the wall year after year, competing against this bloc of *New Democrats* within my own party, that cannot even give me a valid, logical, coherent reason for why they vote to nominate candidates whose primary function is to serve only the wealthiest among us.

A house divided against itself will not stand, and progressive Democrats are not at fault here.

[dana_b]

177. yes

that's my plan

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

60. I'd be more worried about the hundreds of thousands who haven't even bothered to come out for

the primaries. Or the millions who won't have if this trend continues through all the primaries.

An awful lot of people have given up on the party entirely, even in advance of the primaries.

[phylny]

222. Here in my very red area of Virginia,

our local paper had an article about primary voting and it stated that the county recorded five times more Republican primary voters than Democratic primary voters as compared to a 2-1 split R/D in the 2008 primary.

May I ask this? Is it mathematically possible for Bernie to go on to win the nomination with the states left?

Thanks.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

266. It's still possible for him to win the nomination, but...

he needs to start racking up bigger wins in states with more delegates. His best wins haven't really netted him all that many delegates, because the states he's crushed Hillary in have generally had few total delegates.

But no matter who wins the nomination, if turnout mirrors the primary, Dems are going to get slaughtered. And you can't blame the voters - Dems haven't been giving them any reason to vote FOR them, only been playing the 'lesser evil' game for the last couple of decades. And that just doesn't work on voters anymore, as witness the vast numbers of seats we keep losing election after election. We need a party to believe in again, not just a 'not as bad as Republicans' party.

[VulgarPoet]

586. I'd hazard a guess at he at LEAST needs big wins in Michigan and California?

I'm no good with delegate math.

[Surya Gayatri]

65. .../...

WATCH OUT--WE MIGHT DO SOMETHING! If those millions of HRC-supporting Democrats refuse to do our bidding.

[pinebox]

116. I prefer this one

[beedle]

164. That's good,

because Bribery is the enemy being fought.

[HassleCat]

76. What did we expect?

We're trying to derail their gravy train. They all become millionaires, hang out with the rich and famous, get told how wonderful they are. There is easy access to sex, for those who are into that. They have real power and they get all swelled up about it, many of them, believing all these good things came their way because they are superior to others. They serve a few years in office, then retire with benefits and pay that the average person would kill for. They get to convert surplus campaign money to personal wealth. They get free... well, free everything... from lobbyists and interest groups. They collect big speaking fees. And we're trying to put a stop to all that? Sheeeit! We're lucky they don't kill us outright.

[JRLeft]

96. A lot of Republicans will vote for Hillary making up the difference, because Trump will be the

nominee.

[BillZBubb]

111. If you believe that nonsense, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn you'd love to buy.

Republicans will NEVER vote for Hillary. Their hate for her is immense. Some might not vote, or if a conservative third party is availiable, they'll vote for that. But for Hillary? NO WAY!

Hillary won't make up any difference. The fight will be for the independents, where Hillary has a lot of negative baggage.

[EndElectoral]

123. Exactly, and the GOP is not going to let Trump win at the convention

Every single delegate not voting for Trump will unite around an approved GOP Establishment pick. Unless Trump can win over 50-60% of the delegates he will not stand a chance at the convention.

And above poster is correct, HRC just ignites the GOP. Her running will lower Dem turnout and increase GOP turnout which hurts house and senate races as well.

[JRLeft]

138. I don't like Hillary but Trump has no chance against her.

[pinebox]

375. You may want to check polls for that

It is damn close and within the margin of error. Trump has massive momentum and he has rallied the base and does get the indy vote if Hillary is the nominee.

[redstateblues]

343. There are tons of Rs who won't vote for Trump

[pinebox]

120. Said no republican ever.

You think Republicans will vote for what they see as the left's version of Sarah Palin?
You have to be joking. Republicans HATE Hillary. A LOT more than they hate Trump. It's like a Chevette racing a Corvette!

[dana_b]

189. oh my... I am sick of my Repub

family members and acquaintances ranting about the Clintons. Some like or at least tolerate Obama and Bernie but the Clintons? Talking about them is like setting off napalm in the house.

[PonyUp]

366. Repugs are salivating to vote against Hillary. They are known for falling in line. nt

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:02 PM - Edit history (1)

[vi5]

107. It's not just Sanders supporters...

The idea that this is exclusively a "Bernie Bros" thing or that anyone taking this position is doing so out of a "my candidate or else!" tantrum is shortsighted and ignorant.

I'm hardly a Bernie supporter. I'll vote for him in the primary but I am not overly enamored with him nor do I think he can necessarily win in a General Election.

But I am already planning on leaving the party I've been an active and generous member of for the past 35 years. I've been a straight Democratic party ticket voter across the board every single election, Primary, GE, Presidential, local, dogcatcher, etc. for every single election since I turned 18.

I've sat quietly and gone along to get along as the party drifted rightward and turned slowly and slowly into the Washington Generals vs. the Republican Harlem Globetrotters.

However, I've never seen the degree of "Well this is the best we can do, love it or leave it", single candidate coronation that I'm seeing now and that has been set up for the past 4-8 years.

I'm done with this shit. Yes I agree our country is in bad shape if we get a President Trump or Cruz. And it will be in bad shape if we completely give up the values of the only major political party to have stood up in the past. But if we're giving up before we even start then there is no place for me here.

[BillZBubb]

140. That pretty much sums up my feelings as well.

I've never voted for a republican and never will. But, this party, at this time doesn't seem to support the values I've long thought it did. Not only is Hillary a flawed candidate, she on many issues is the antithesis of what the Democratic party has long stood for. Her supporters simply ignore her past or use pretzel logic to rationalize her actions.

This primary season has become a battle for the soul of the party. Given the way things are going, our soul has been sold to the highest bidder. That's not a situation I want to be part of.

[pdsimdars]

109. You said it perfectly

I still don't think they will hear it. They won't get the message, just like the Republicans haven't gotten the message. I wonder how many elections they will have to lose first. I mean, look at DWS's record. She has lost more Democratic elections than anyone in history. And yet, they aren't dumping her.

[Ford_Prefect]

173. The nature of religion is that disciples believe the mythology of their sect before and above fact.

Questioning true believers and presenting them with facts that contradict their ideology only serves to generate a strong reaction to those facts that reinforces their beliefs. This is true of many different faiths, sects and cults no matter the culture, location or ideology.

In the case of Hillary Clinton many people are not aware of what happened to America during Bill Clinton's presidency regarding the degradation of government protections for individual citizens embodied in so-called "welfare- reform". They are also unaware of Hillary's participation in similar kinds of legislation during her tenure as senator. Most importantly they are completely unfamiliar with the details of the majority of her activities as Secretary of State, especially her role in coordinating the bombing of Libya, her world-wide advocacy for the Fracking industry, and her personal diplomacy to put forward the TPP, which is to say nothing regarding her activities in destabilizing Honduras.

Many people want to see her as the put-upon liberal woman who fought the horrible Right-Wing hate machine. This is unfortunately a misconception in that Hillary was never a classical liberal. She did endure years of horrible slurs by the demonizing right wing conspiracy. She has certainly succeeded in rising politically after her time as First Lady. She is a female American success story that many can envy and admire, and I suspect envision for themselves. However she is not now and never has been the great liberal leader and champion of everyday Americans.

Nor is she ever likely to be...ask those who know her best; the Bush family, Henry Kissinger, her close chums at Carlyle Group, or even Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

[Colorado Rambler]

334. Very much agree

The Clinton administration was responsible for any number of evils including NAFTA and the TANF program (supposedly a reform to the "welfare" program). After NAFTA was signed into law, I remember watching the computer electronics manufacturing outfits in my town go down like a row of domino's - everything outsourced to the third world, and the good paying jobs being replaced with ones for call centers. The Clintons are no friends to the American worker.

On her very best days, Hillary inspires me with a feeling of mild antipathy, but most of the time I just actively dislike her and have very little trust in what she may be saying at the moment. I too have become alienated from the Dems, and I've hung in there with the party through thick and thin every since my college days when I volunteered on behalf of the McGovern campaign. But now it's become party politics as usual with no real regard for the concerns of the individuals who form the party's base. All this crap with super delegates and the feeling that the game is rigged has been a major turn-off for me. However, if it comes down to it I won't cut off my nose to spite my face. A win by Donald Trump or Ted Cruz would be catastrophic for this country. A win by Hillary would at least enable us to tread water until we can come up with something better. Bernie has my support every step of the way, but if he doesn't get the nomination, I'll hang on with the Dems long enough to vote against Trump. Once this farce of an election is behind us, I suspect I'll be going Green.

[PatrickforO]

122. I have refused to join the DNC this year or last.

And I will leave the Democratic Party if the establishment 'machine' shits all over WHAT IS IN MY BEST INTEREST AND THAT OF MY FAMILY, and instead goes with the candidate whose interests coincide with those of Wall Street and the Military Industrial Complex.

Period.

[treestar]

125. Do you really think that a majority

Of Hillary supporting Democrats are going to switch to Bernie due to this threat ?

And aren't you encouraging us to vote for ffr our POV is the lesser of two evils ? Trump or Bernie as our only choice !

[nadinbrzezinski]

136. Nope, none does

What we are seeing is not unprecedented in US politics though, just rare. This is why not you, but both the RNC and the DNC have no clue what to do...it is actually fascinating from a historical and poli sci perspective.

[cantbeserious]

150. This Revolt Has Been Building For Years - The DWS, DNC, DLC, Third-Way Has Only Themselves To Blame

eom

[nadinbrzezinski]

158. I know

[ChiciB1]

313. This Bernie Supporter Doesn't Really Care If You Vote For Him!

Do what you want, most of us here are telling YOU we DON'T WANT HILLARY! Pretty simple, it's pretty pervasive and not just here on DU!

[Rebkeh]

128. Yeah, if they don't re-align,

I'm not staying on the sinking ship that is the Democratic Party. The only reason I vote blue is because it is the most viable and progressive option. I'm loyal to principles, not party.

[w4rma]

151. How will they re-align if you aren't there to help progressives in their future primaries?

Is someone going to do it for you? Stupid. The neoliberal wing doesn't want you in the Democratic Party. They want you an an independent voter who never votes in primaries.

[Rebkeh]

226. Huh?

What are you talking about? I am here.



To clarify, I live in an open primary state.

[w4rma]

328. *You* act as an example for folks in closed primaries states. (nt)

[Trust Buster]

149. I'm not impressed.

[kgnu_fan]

154. kick

[Beacool]

160. Sore losers who can't handle the fact that their candidate of choice won't be the nominee.

Imagine if millions of Hillary voters had done the same when she lost to Obama in 2008. We would have had president McCain and Palin as his VP.

Then again, I doubt that these people are actual Democrats. They are just supporters of an individual, not the party. They obviously don't care much about the country either if they think that allowing a narcissistic vulgarian like Trump in the WH would be a better choice.

Hillary is winning the old fashioned way, through people's votes. She's ahead in the popular vote and has more pledged delegates.

[pinebox]

378. So losers? VS people getting pissed on and pissed off?

See that is the difference between our camp and yours.
The middle class under Obama has gotten WORSE so if you want to invoke that train of thought into things I'll throw that fact at you.

It doesn't matter of they are actual Democrats or not and your camp keeps throwing it out there like it's a beam from a lighthouse. You can't win the White House on just the backing of Democrats. You NEED the Indy vote in order to win and the nominee is Trump, want to take a guess who gets that Indy vote? It's not Hillary. Hello perfect storm.

Myself, I am not a Dem but an Indy who switched to Dem in order to caucus for Bernie, sorry but that doesn't make my opinion worth any less than your own no matter how much you wish or want to believe. My vote is just as strong and as meaningful as yours.

Hillary is winning the old fashioned way *for now* but the rest of the map looks good for Bernie. If she is the nominee, Dems will lose and all polls show that.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

168. It's all about the positions Bernie has

What kind of revolution do you want?
I prefer a non-violent myself.

[wendylaroux]

169. seems if Hillary people are so worried that a democrat wont be our next

president,why aren't they voting for Bernie in the primary,he has a better chance against ALL of he republicans running.

So come on Hillarites!!!!!, support your democratic party,vote Bernie in the primaries!!!!!!!!!!

[dana_b]

225. exactly

if Hillary does win the nomination and then Trump or whoever wins the GE, they need to look in the mirror.

If they wise up and support the real progressive, the person who promises real change, we can all win this thing.

[wendylaroux]

254. I know right!!??

makes no sense to me.

[MrScorpio]

170. So, they're going to take their marbles away and go home and allow a Nazi to get elected...

All because they didn't get their way?

Well, that's being responsible adults.

[Arazi]

182. No, they're going to take their marbles and go play over there

with the 43% who identify as Independent.

Independents are now the largest political identity. That's a whole other party and I don't think Bernies movement will be going away regardless of it he wins

[Maedhros]

258. No, I'm going to vote for the candidate for whom I WANT to vote.

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 01:20 PM - Edit history (1)

I will not be coerced, shamed, or bullied into voting for any candidate that doesn't represent my interests. I have zero respect for anyone who attempts to coerce, shame or bully me into doing so.

[Frustratedlady]

172. Will this be the end of DWS? I hope so. eom

[NorthCarolina]

179. When you get party regulars like Howard Dean thumbing his nose

at the electorate by telling them he doesn't CARE what the majority of voters in his State say, he will cast his Super Delegate Vote as HE sees fit.

Democracy at it's finest right there folks. Is this the style of "democracy" we spend trillions of dollars a year to deliver to other nations at the end of a missile?

[Cheese Sandwich]

180. The DNC really stepped in it when they suspended our access to the voter files

That's when people caught on that the fix is in.

People are disgusted by the biased news coverage as well.

[retrowire]

181. well would you look at that

they weren't all talk and the democratic party should get their heads out of their ass.

[itsrobert]

183. I guess they will have to live with electing Donald J Trump

Many supported Nader before and ended up with George W. Bush. How'd that work out for them?

[dana_b]

238. oh nay nay!

It's the Hillary folks who will need to live with it. Instead of supporting the real progressive who actually fought against NAFTA/CAFTA, the war in Iraq, doesn't take money from super PACs/big banks/Wall St, doesn't talk out of both sides of his mouth, wants' real health care reform, has promised to protect SS/Medicare, fights for veteran's and on and on... they are choosing Hillary - the one who embodies ALL of that and more - including all the scandals that go with her.

It will be THEIR fault if we get Trump or whoever. We warned them. The time is now.

[Metric System]

281. What childish BS. Threatening Hillary supporters to vote for Bernie, or else.

[Agnosticsherbet]

185. Bye, enjoy what the Republicans do.

We will fight without you.

[riversedge]

186. I hope Sen. Sanders can be the uniter like Hillary was when she asked her

supporters to get behind Obama at the last convention (recall the PUMA's??). She brought the Party together and Sanders needs to do the same.

[mountain grammy]

196. and I hope Hillary will do it again, this time for Bernie.

[riversedge]

206. If, by some

chance it comes to that, we know she will unite the Dem Party.

[Jon Ace]

292. I'm really pulling for a Clinton/Sanders ticket

That'll be the best way to do it IMO.

[NCTraveler]

190. I know a young woman in Florida..

Who was NPA, registered Dem so she can vote for Sanders, and will go right back to NPA after the Primary. She will also vote Clinton in the General.

[LonePirate]

191. Oh the irony of not voting for HRC in the GE but ending up with a Repub who is 1000x worse.

At least those voters can still claim they proudly stood by their principles as they serve as accomplices to a Republican president who will essentially burn our country to the ground.

[Maedhros]

263. Blame the Democrats for ignoring, insulting and shaming liberals and progressives.

Who could have known that ignoring peoples' interests would result in them not supporting you?

[LonePirate]

275. By all means, blame someone else instead of taking responsibility and doing what is best for America

We're adults. We often have to do things we don't like or don't want to do simply because it is for the best. Voting for the Dem nominee in the GE - even if we don't like that nominee - is the best thing to do for this country. Anybody who believes anything differently deserves the horrible consequences that would result if a Repub is elected.

Any Bernie supporter on DU who refuses to vote for the Dem (if it is HRC) in the GE, is essentially giving their vote to the Repub nominee. It really is that simple. Anyone who thinks HRC is as bad as or worse than any Repub truly has absolutely no concept of the horrors a Repub president and Congress will unleash on this country. Principles won't save you from that disaster in the making.

[Maedhros]

286. So, you're opting for "shaming."

/bye.

[obamanut2012]

358. Thank you -- tis thread just leaves me gobsmacked

I would absolutely vote for Bernie if he got the nom -- I wouldn't hesitate for ONE SECOND. I haven't been an actual Dem for many years, but I'm registered as one and vote as one.

Just

[zappaman]

367. It's just a temper tantrum.

It will pass when the reality of a possible Republican crazy POTUS kicks in.

[dana_b]

381. no it's not

you guys keep saying that but ignoring it and posting your little pictures doesn't make it true. We are all adults who have thought this out. Hell, I have been an indy for a long time now and have voted Dem, Green, and write in votes. I have no problem with voting my conscience and ignoring those who try to shame and guilt trip me.

[ancianita]

193. The lesser of two evils -- unless Bernie wins -- is how they fuck with our turnout every time!

You can't fight Republicans while fighting Hillary.

Or this will be 2010 all the fuck over again.

Your OP shows exactly what Republicans want! They want party abandonment! That's how they win!

[TIME TO PANIC]

198. Can't say I blame them.

Many democratic voters still believe in democracy. How naïve of them.

[Herman4747]

203. IF YOU LIVE IN A BATTLEGROUND (TOSS-UP) STATE...

Do NOT abandon whatever Democratic Nominee is chosen for November. If Bernie sadly can't pull it out, then such voters especially need to think "I am not voting for Hillary, I AM VOTING AGAINST TRUMP (or Cruz).

Trust me, you will be quite sad with a President Trump.

[VulgarPoet]

588. Praise the Goddess I'm a Texan, then.

Still voting against the repubs, but like damn near a hundred thousand of the people like me, I'm leaving the party the day after election day. The Green Party sounds like they espouse more of my beliefs.

[mountain grammy]

204. that would be unfortunate

for Democrats and America.

[Jenny_92808]

209. I am going Independant

after this election!

I think Bernie will win but the establishment is off the rails!

[Aha]

210. I happen to be one of them.

I voted last week, then changed my affilation to unaffiliated.

The Democratic Party must be purged of Third Wayers. If not, then the new party of progressives should be the largest in the US next time.

[PatrynXX]

211. I was an independent because of the Clintons

back in the 90's even though I voted for Bill. If she comes back even more reason to leave. and DU shouldn't be slamming the door on those leaving either. ie don't come back. Okay we'll just form out own party. Blame it on Warren or Sanders or us ... I don't care anymore. I vote my concience not what others tell me to do.

[asiliveandbreathe]

213. So, what we have here is the "it's all about me"

crowd..I got sick of this with the PUMAs in '08 and this IMHO, is no different....what about the rest of us who look at the whole picture...

You get who you don't vote for - welcome President TRUMP IMHO..or Cruz and

[MyNameGoesHere]

215. Oh for effs sake, enough SG posts.

Your candidate is not doing as well because of his base. They yap a lot but in typical fashion they don't do the legwork. Sign off twitter and go vote. It will help the Sanders numbers. He still loses but you can claim a moral victory or some shit on twitter.

[Hoyt]

221. Thank God McGovern supporters didn't abandon the Democratic Party when he got crushed.

[Shadowflash]

228. I read this whole thread

And it sounds like November is going to be pretty good for the Green Party.

They won't win, I'm sure but, maybe, this is FINALLY the beginnings of a progressive party and we may have more viable choices, down the road, other than Crazy-ass Republican or Republican lite.

[Maedhros]

273. For how many election cycles will we be told by the Democrats

"Yeah, we know, our candidates suck this time around. But next time we'll fight for you! We promise! So vote for us!"?

It's a well-worn comparison, but Charlie Brown, Lucy and the football is a very apt one. The only way to win a rigged game is not to play.

[Shadowflash]

298. Yup.

nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

300. We are seeing party realighments best case

so yes, pretty much. This is a political science observation. They might even break out of the 10 percent, which matters for FEDERAL FUNDS.

[Jenny_92808]

237. I reject the reagan era....

- greed for the richest. Evil actions against those who just want a job.
- hate and evil actions toward those who are of color
- hate and evil actions toward those not born with the same sexual orientation that you are.
- discrimination against women, since they should be owned by men.

May g-d have mercy on your soul.

[proud patriot]

244. My dad agrees with you

the hate the right feels for her will fire them up to a very high turnout ... causing no gains and perhaps some loses in congress and the Senate ... according to my dad that is .. I'm more hopeful and hope we turn out in mass to defeat republicans.

[wendylaroux]

268. yes,and repubs are vastly outnumbering democrats in primary voting already.

Hillary people should stop and think about all of this.

Democrats aren't jazzed for Hillary,she is no Obama

-repubs are jazzed to beat Hillary however.They are chomping at the bit to beat her.

[ConsiderThis_2016]

245. The (R)'s are ready for their revival...

...And the DNC peeps are saying "Frack-it". Actions have consequences... tomorrows another day.

[Onlooker]

253. Then the revolution will be over ...

... if Hillary can't reach to the left for support, she'll reach to the right, win, and Bernie's efforts will have been in vain.

[BobTheSubgenius]

259. I'm not sure an avowed socialist who has said...

...he will raise taxes and give free health care to undocumented immigrants is a slam dunk for the Oval Office. I am less than sanguine about this election, to say the least.

I find it impossible to imagine a Drumpf administration, but, as hard as that is, it's a way better alternative than the rest of that suppurating hot mess, so that gives me hope.

PERHAPS President Sanders would get a tiny bit more leeway and cooperation from the GOP, but his aspirations are pretty moot if this is the Congress he gets to deal with.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

518. Let's face it. Hillary is a Pink, Bernie has Yeti blood. Share a bowl of frop with him. nt

[imwithher16]

270. "I like Hillary, But..." For Hillary skeptics/undecideds, check out...

"I like Hillary, But..." For Hillary skeptics/undecideds, check out [link:http://www.ilikehillarybut.com|

[Docreed2003]

277. To those living in the Clinton bubble...

I realize there are those within the party who support and believe in Sec Clinton wholeheartedly, and will support her no matter what, as is their right. That being said, those within that bubble are foolish to believe Nov will be a cakewalk. There is a significant portion of the independent electorate that will either sit out or vote against Hillary, either because of preconceived ideas or because of the numerous self inflicted gaffes, i.e. The private email server. It is what it is. Clinton will not have the electrifying motivation that Obama had and will turn off many undecided voters. If I'm wrong, I'll happily eat crow, but from the interaction I've had both past and present with people outside the political forums, I think we are in for a long four years if Sec Clinton is the nominee.

[JDPriestly]

279. I've been a Democrat since listening to the 1952 Democratic convention on the radio,

but the corruption now that labor unions are virtually defunct stinks too much.

If Bernie does not win the nomination, I will be out of here. I will still vote for down-ticket Democrats that I believe have not sold out, but as for the DNC, I will not support it in any way.

I registered a lot of voters and campaigned strongly for Obama in 2012. Me and people like me will be very missed by the Democratic Party.

But we lose all the off-year elections for lack of enthusiasm yet the DNC doesn't review its own policies and candidates to see what is going wrong.

Time for some self-examination.

Time for Bernie and the end to the corruption.

[zentrum]

280. Scary stuff.

The DNC has been so stupid and out of touch.

[jillan]

282. I am leaving the Democratic Party because I am a democrat.

And this political party no longer represents me. When the orange blowhole is to the left of the "presumptive nominee" on several issues and when I am told that I am a racist and a sexist on a daily basis because I am supporting the wrong candidate I no longer belong to the Democratic Party. I could go on.
November 2016 is when this 60 y/o lifelong Democrat changes her party affiliation to Independent.

[Historic NY]

287. Whambulance voters.....

its tells us you were never in for the long haul. Once the magical number of delegates need to clinch turns up then what, ask yourselves. Would you rather surrender or go on to fight another day, or spend 4 or 8 yrs pissing and whining over Cruz, Trump or Rubio????

[still_one]

304. I have only one thing to say to this OP

[840high]

311. I am sick & tired of the

lesser of 2 evils. No more.

[ellennelle]

317. i agree

when DWS shut the debates at 6, i sent nancy pelosi an email telling her i would vote in the primary, and then change my affiliation to independent.

i voted tuesday, and will likely make good on that threat.

meanwhile, yes, i also agree hillary's nomination will be disastrous for the party and the country. i will vote against the GOP come november, i might even campaign against them. but i will NOT campaign 'for' or vote 'for' hillary. i will not vote for more of the same business as usual, corporate control of congress, money rules all, wall street is our master.

it is what it is, indeed. folks make a big case of how the GOP created trump and the whole klownkar that's taking them down now, but the DLC did it to the dems, as well. and we've let them do it.

there is no future in the status quo of either party. i despise what is happening on the right - it's really scary stuff - so yeah, i'll vote against that. but no more lesser of 2 evils.

utterly done with that. we need a party we can be proud of as representing the people, and NOT the establishment.

we therefore must keep up all this enthusiasm and can-do and community spirit and excitement for a long while to come. this is what democracy is about, this is what keeps it from becoming a spectator sport.

FEEL THE BERN!!!

[EV_Ares]

323. I would not leave over a Hillary Nomination but I will leave if the DNC/Hillary does not denounce

Debbie Wasserman Schultz's attack on Elizabeth Warren for trying to regulate the PayDay Loan business. Those payday loans are a horrible thing for people who are in desperate shape & need to be shut down.

[Renew Deal]

327. Opportunists just like their candidate

Last edited Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:53 PM - Edit history (1)

[TM99]

331. Wow, that is some precious projection

coming from a supporter of the queen of opportunism!

[BlueMTexpat]

333. If this is true, can you please

explain to me why Hillary is winning the popular vote over Bernie by 1.5 million? Are we all misguided, low-information, or ignorant voters as so many here imply or even state outright?

Hillary is also popular among almost all Bernie voters I know. All of them will vote for the Dem candidate in the GE, NO MATTER WHO THAT CANDIDATE IS.

The virtual reality of DU and other online sites is just not the electoral reality on the ground. Even most Bernie supporters here have posted about how congenial and courteous their own caucus experiences have been.

THAT is the reality, no matter how some here try to distort it to fit whatever agenda.

[TM99]

341. She is also winning the minority vote.

But when turn-out is measured at 12.5% like it was in SC, you do realize those numbers don't win elections.

[redstateblues]

346. I thought Bernie was supposed to drive turnout

To historic levels. Another meme bites the dust

[TM99]

353. Show me a post that actually states that?

Go on, I will wait.

I and other Sanders hoped he would, and we recognized the day he launched his campaign that it was an uphill battle against an entrenched establishment. And we were right. I won't catalog the obstacles, but he has done better than was ever expected or anticipated. Enough so that y'all want him to drop out, and he just ain't going to do it.

[BlueMTexpat]

349. She also happens to be winning

among all groups - even among whites - who are not millennials or first-time voters.

Most millennials are more intelligent than to let GOPers destroy our country. Or at least I hope so. Any first-time voters who do not respect that hard-won privilege enough to vote for any Dem over a GOPer do not deserve it, IMO.

How could Bernie ever expect to win in a GE without the support of 100% of Hillary's voters? You really think that GOPers will flock to him? If so, I know about a REALLY good deal on swampland in FL that might interest you.

You are doing a piss-poor job of wooing Hillary voters when you slander us, our candidate, and Democrats generally non-stop 24/7. Most of us are NOT doing the same.

[TM99]

352. I am not trying to woo you or any Clinton supporter.

I couldn't even if I tried.

She is losing the youth vote and the independents. She can't win without those no matter how many registered Democratic minority voters she gets.

[pinebox]

521. Your numbers are now incorrect

after yesterday's wins for Bernie, he now leads Hillary in demographics so you know.
I'll say this, Maine was quite odd.

Will GOP flock to him? They already have. We've cited this in the past a million times but they like the guy. Check it https://www.facebook.com/republicansforbernie/

[Peacetrain]

354. I doubt it..

DU is not the rest of the country.. People who have invested their heart in Bernie or Hillary for that matter will not be feeling too chummy towards anyone when it comes to pass.

There are people who will not vote for anyone but the candidate they were passionate about.

That is just a fact.

But who ever gets the nod will get the support of the Democratic party and its members.

Just saying..

If you cannot win the primary/caucus in the party of your choice..there is no way you were ever going to win the general.

[dana_b]

388. nah - let it stand.

"I'll be in Canada"

and you say that WE'RE taking our ball and going home?!

[humbled_opinion]

355. The right is going through its own

political revolution anti-establishment phase... If this works for them the DLC should be prepared to experience a very long winter from the grass roots... How did the right manage it and the left cannot? I guess they were just more fed up... I know the establishment on our side was helped because we have a Democrat in the White House...

[whereisjustice]

356. Spineless 1% loyalists are watching every counter balance to rightwing, conservative government

slowly fall away. They don't want to be accused of being disloyal or wanting a pony. They believe the party should be run like a for-profit corporation. That's because nothing says good government like money in politics.

So, here we are. In deep shit with Hillary and a DNC who only sees rich people.

[whereisjustice]

359. Contribute to the DNC, co-sponsored by Monsanto and Goldman Sachs!

[MADem]

364. Wow--that is one UGLY hate-filled website--sort of a 21st Century Edition of PUMA!

I guess that #BoB is the modern day equivalent!

Hillary is likely to be the nominee. If that happens, people will have to fish or cut bait.

I am not about to beg and plead anyone to do something they don't want to do. They should follow their hearts, and best of luck to them. If they need to leave the party, that's what they should do.

I do think they'll need to find a new home for political discussion if they are members here, though. This is DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, and we do have a TOS here, that includes the baseline imperative that we ELECT MORE DEMOCRATS AND FEWER REPUBLICANS to public office. Listening to people tearing down the Democratic nominee, should that be HRC, just isn't useful to this site.

There are plenty of alternatives, though, and people who can't support the nominee will surely be able to find happiness at those. I do hope there's zero tolerance for snark and hate here once the nominee for our Democratic Party becomes clear.

I'm sick to death of it already.

[obamanut2012]

390. good post n/t

[Tragl1]

372. When the leader of the DNC does this...

http://theslot.jezebel.com/why-is-dnc-chair-debbie-wasserman-schultz-co-sponsoring-1762193449

When the leader of the DNC is sponsoring this kind of legislation, well ugh...what's a "progressive" to do?

Or when Hillary is going to totally flip flop on the TPP...she is, you know damn well, "I don't support it, as it is written" crap is just a pre-waffle, if pre-waffles are/is a thing?

Look reality is, a cold wet ham sandwich is better than a republican in the White House. That being said I always hate having to eat that sandwich especially when I have, warm Vermonty maple syrupy pancakes just fresh from the pan as an option. No seriously, pancakes trump cold wet sandwiches. Let's all eat pancakes people.

But I will eat that sandwich if I have to, just saying.

[dana_b]

389. blech - she is disgusting

how she even calls herself a Dem much less RUNS the party is beyond me.

[OhZone]

376. Sore losers for Trump then? nt

[pinebox]

380. No people are pissed off

and they won't support a candidate who doesn't have their best interests at heart and is on the take.

[OhZone]

382. On the take is a lie -

And those accusations PISS ME OFF!

And she does have the country's interests at heart.

[SkyIsGrey]

379. And that percentage...

doesn't factor in "buyers remorse" of people that voted/caucused for Clinton in the prior primaries, when they learn more about Sanders.

[TNNurse]

387. I appreciate everyone's passion and dedication

HOWEVER, if you do not show up and vote for the Democrat in November, you will be helping elect Trump or Cruz.

I do not care who you are or what you call yourselves but damn, there is no time to change the whole system before this election. Get to work on that after.

I voted for Sanders in the primary, but will absolutely vote for the Democrat. I hope you will consider doing that, not voting is not going to help anything.

[TM99]

405. I have seen this admonition my entire life.

We are constantly being told that this is no time to change the system Democrats must win because of this, that, or the other fear based thing.

And yet nothing changes towards the actual end goal of change. And now 30 years later the Democratic Party is the moderate right leaning neoliberal party and the GOP is the far right leaning neoliberal neocon party.

This is exactly the time to change the system. In fact, it is the only time to change the system. And change it will, history dictates it.

[kristopher]

408. Seriously, what is it you don't understand about this?

Give up your values and your vote. After you surrender, then, in a couple of years, we can talk about what you believe this world should be like if we need you again.

[TM99]

410. No shit, right?!

Just get in line with the other plebes, pull the lever, and let's get on with the continued looting and pillaging of this country!

[BreakfastClub]

391. These kinds of threats are made every primary. So boring. nt

[pinebox]

456. Meanwhile read the replies

Many have said here they have left. They aren't kids either.

[felix_numinous]

392. Fear fear fear 24/7 is the Republican (and Republican Lite) way

They cannot run on their policies because those happen in secret, while we are supposed to be fighting amongst ourselves and kept out of the loop.

No thanks, the candidate we need now is the ONLY sane adult in the room with a plan to unify and heal the rifts in the country. From here till November expect every trick in the book to be used to scaremonger, create doubt--and I believe even more drastic measures--to hold onto corporate rule.

People WILL COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK to vote against HRC, I know a lot of Republicans. Trump or whoever would get in office. And corporate America will have either one, they don't care about us.

Whether we write it in, distinguish as a party, this is an election to regain real representation in Washington.

[pengu]

396. If you are thinking of doing this in Florida, please wait until after August 30th

Please vote for Alan Grayson in the senate primary on August 30th.

[djean111]

454. That's my plan.

Vote for an actual Democrat, and then switch to unaffiliated.

[pengu]

459. Just remember the presidential primary is in March and the senate primary is in August

[djean111]

462. Yup. August 30, vote for Grayson, try to keep yet another DINO out of the senate.

Nelson already votes with the GOP more often than not, we don't need another one like that.

This is what makes me snicker at the sanctimonious bullshit about "getting more liberals at the lower levels, and then they will rise through the ranks".

Not if Debbie DINO can stop them. And she can withhold money and support. She HAS withheld money and support, actually, when her GOP BFFs are running.

[pengu]

465. They're all backing the max Romney donor

lol

[djean111]

470. Did you know that the progressive Caucus in Florida was threatened with decertification,

if they persisted in backing Grayson for a primary against a guy who was GOP until 2012, and only changed so he could run against Allen West? That's how bad things are.

[pengu]

514. Our state party is just awful

I didn't know that, but I'm completely unsurprised.

[PoliticalMalcontent]

397. I've been trying to pound into people's heads the truth that Clinton is only electable among Dems.

And even then she is turning people away from the party.

There's a huge swath of democrats that are having none of it. It is to our detriment, but I suppose sometimes lessons have to be learned the hard way.

It just pisses me off.

[mudstump]

400. I am 58 years old.....

and, I am finding it more and more difficult to hold my nose and vote for the dem candidate because I don't want the republicans to take over completely. I know what is at stake if a republican wins the presidency, but I am as fed up as I have ever been in my life. Time after time we see democratic candidates use progressives to get elected and then promptly throw us aside for the real DLC agenda. Enough is enough.

[Cal33]

425. You don't seem to be aware of the fact that the Republicans are having problems also -- to

name one: Donald Trump. They want to get rid of him, but don't know how. And he knows
it, and doesn't give a damn. He's laughing at them, and at the Democrats, too. He seems to
be having a great time.

[DCBob]

403. I hope these people realize that is not at all what Bernie intended from the "revolution".

In fact quite the opposite.

[seaglass]

411. Wait. The many, many times you have said you would never vote for Hillary is no longer true?

Congrats for making that decision!

[pinebox]

501. I'll vote who reps me

[padruig]

422. Not voting this year ?

Unhappy with the outcomes of the primaries ?

Not voting this year to protest ?



Please welcome President Trump ?

[PonyUp]

428. Oooh it's the Fear Factor.

Zzzzzzzzzzz

[pinebox]

502. Activists never stay home

[dbackjon]

430. Any post that still whines about coin flips shows ignorance

[fullautohotdog]

440. All I have is this map from 2006

Hillary's election map in the 2006 Senate race.

How many Democrats do you think there are in the counties north of the little wiener-looking thing at the bottom of the map? Except for maybe 5 counties, those should all be red. In fact, there's counties where the GOP outnumbers us 2-to-1 that are blue. I've seen almost as many Confederate battle flags in those counties as I have in Georgia. But how many of them are blue? 58 of 62.

She has more appeal than you think — I'm not going to run around with my hair on fire if she wins unless the GOP reanimates Reagan. FWIW, I'm also not going to run around with my hair on fire if Bernie wins unless the GOP reanimates Reagan.

[TransitJohn]

442. Lots of us already have.

I switched from independent to Democratic to caucus for Bernie, and switched back to independent when I got home Super Tuesday night. Hillary will not win vs. anyone.

[fierywoman]

472. Hill underturnout red states; Bernie massive turnout blue states ...

Hillary wins with large margins with under-turnouts in red states, so useless to the Dems. Bernie wins by large margins in blue states with massive turnouts. Is anyone else thinking where this is going?

I appreciate the person who wrote the 25 reasons I wouldn't vote for a Republican a couple of days ago.

[Blue_Adept]

544. Interesting that the lower turnout happens in red states where Voter ID laws are stringent

[SandersDem]

473. I am going to dispel a myth here

I am a lifelong Democrat who has voted every single election. I have given money, volunteered, been a precinct captain, LD treasurer, State committee person and candidate for Statewide office, worked on 2 different Presidential campaigns. Unless you are an abject idiot, I have serious Democratic creds.

I find myself in a seriously difficult position in this election and once it is over, I will be making a decision about continuing in this Party. I do not wish to vote for the least objectionable candidate just because some vile idiotic Republican could win the Presidency and turn the Supreme Court permanently conservative/corporatist.

I support Bernie Sanders 1000%. He is the most Democratic of all candidates who would actually do this Party a huge favor by taking us back to our late 60s/early 70s "roots". I believe he is right re a rigged economy and I refuse to let social issues and causes hijack my vote anymore in a conservative fiscal bow down.

In addition, in all my years of having been a Democrat, I have never ever seen voters like myself attacked for mythological horse shit. All that has done is tell me that there is a schism in this Party and that we, right now are in a fight to the death for control.

If Bernie loses, I lose. In fact, we all lose. Not only so I believe we lose the general election, but we lose the Party. If this happens, I will drop my Party because it no longer reflects my progressive values.

I am not somebody who simply registered to vote Bernie. So, when you hear reports of 10,000 people set to leave this Party, take it seriously, it is not just those who have just joined!

[Purrfessor]

477. Ok, then. I'll add your name to the list of those leaving.

[pinebox]

493. @GeeOhPees2 twitter is my home <3

https://twitter.com/GeeOhPees2

[Purrfessor]

591. I'll vote for the Dem nominee because I don't want to see Republicans control...

all three branches of government and the Supreme Court. I like Bernie, always have and will vote for him in the Ohio primary. But if Hillary is the candidate in the GE I will vote for her. A 30 or 40 year Conservative SC majority will be devastating should the Dems fail to take control of the Senate. If Republicans control all three branches of government the first thing McConnell will do is end the filibuster completely. Rabid right-wingers on the SC, Conservative wish lists breezing through Congress with no one to stop them. If you think Hillary us bad, you ain't seen nothing yet with Conservatives eliminating the filibuster and in total control of the government and the Supreme Court. You think a woman's right to choose is safe? Think again. You think minority voting rights cannot be further restricted from what they are now? Think again. You think Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are safe from privatization? Think again. But I know how you rationalize not voting and seeing the Dems lose the White House if Hillary is the nominee. You'll say, well she was a bad candidate, or Some other excuse. Never will people who sit out the election take any responsibility for a Dem loss. Never. There will always be an excuse that absolves non-voters. But I guarantee if Republicans control everything the damage will be worse than anyone can imagine. And it will last for most if not all of our lifetimes, because that's how long Conservatives will control the Supreme Court.

[voteragain]

486. my party right or wrong

is this where FDR intended the Democratic party to go?

I remember Reagan said he did not leave the Democratic party it left him.....

well where is the Democratic party going now?

to ignore the complaints of all members is to have a closed shop and a 1-way or my way or the highway party right or wrong.

I'm in no way advocating or supporting Reagan....my point is what does the Democratic party actually stand for now?

The right just rejected another Bush....look where that is going.

my question is...have I to vote for my party right or wrong?

[Pharaoh]

487. After this election cycle

I (a lifetime Democrat) will now classify myself as an independent.

[NurseJackie]

494. Boo fucking hoo!

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:28 AM - Edit history (1)

[pinebox]

500. Yup. I have tissue for you

Start crying.
Because she ONLY beats Trump.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

[chillfactor]

503. Then these "Democrats"...

were never Democrats to begin with...good riddance....get them out.

[dana_b]

517. you are so wrong

a lot of people on this thread are saying that they are leaving the party - for the first time in their adult lives! Others, like me, left a while ago and came back just to vote for Bernie. If he loses, we'll leave again. The party is growing right now because of Bernie. But when this is over and if Hillary is the nominee, people will be leaving in droves.

[LiberalLovinLug]

504. How about a yuuuuuuge write-in strategy?

Can that be done for the general election?

Independents, along with disgruntled Sanders supporters, (if he loses, which is by no means a fact yet), together...we'd have a majority.

[lexington filly]

508. This doesn't sound like a good strategy. Winning by quitting? Never seen that actually work in

real life. That just seems boringly passive. History shows us consistent, long term, masses of people publicly protesting, strong leadership and strategic actions, etc. make political revolutions successful: Martin Luther King; Occupy Wall Street. Both brought change though not enough because King was killed and there wasn't another charismatic leader in the wings, and Occupy lacked a central motivating leader from the beginning and the cops threw them out and arrested them and they quit. King never quit and never would have. Progressives have Bernie. If what is feared happens, Bernie loses, he'd be totally powerless in a Clinton administration without his share of Dems supporting him. He could affect real change with them. Without them, everything he's done, running for Pres will have been for nothing. I could see strategically sitting out a particular candidate's election to empower Progressives and get attention for Revolution. But sitting out the whole election by quitting? A bridge too far for me.

[Evar]

512. I'm One of Those Democrats Who Will Leave the Party

After years of suffering the spinelessness and outright corporate corruption of Blue Dog Democrats who voted as Republicans against the policies and changes our president was trying to get passed; and also because of the outright manipulation of the superdelegates by the national party, I, a lifelong Democrat, will leave the party in November. I will declare myself an independent. The leadership of the DNC has failed us. I'm done.

[platitudipus]

576. I'm with you Evar.

There used to be a time when our votes were something our candidates tried to earn by convincing us they were more worthy than the other guy. Now we are being told by the Democratic party that our votes are weapons to be used to fend off a Republican candidate that is More unworthy than our own (handpicked) unworthy candidate. I'll vote for Bernie and then I'll do whatever he and Elizabeth Warren do next.

[democrank]

513. Many in the Democratic Party`s Machine

have a long history of looking down on what they consider the "left fringe" members. The Machine includes politicians, consultants, contributors and some in corporate media. They know the down-the-ladder Democrats will comply because they don`t want anything to upset the corporate-owned boat. No wave-making, ever. Right-leaning Democrats frequently and smugly remind the left they have nowhere else to go. That, of course, is dead wrong.

What usually happens is that the Machine exhibits a slight warming trend toward the "left fringe" as elections near and their votes are needed, but it`s short-lived, phony and shallow. Headquarters knows that the (D) has become more important than issues, so most anything the "leaders" do will be accepted....and excused....as long as they party stays intact.

Right-leaning Democrats are talking about how Hillary is WAAAAAAAAAAY ahead in delegates, has just about all the superdelegates, has the support of just about every power person in the party, maybe even in the world! Of course she does. She`s the party`s choice. The Machine`s choice. I expect her to be ahead, WAAAAAAAAAAY ahead. She`s hardly an unknown.

Bernie represents more than one election. He represents a movement. People in his movement know a win against the person chosen by the Democratic Machine will be very difficult.But, his movement is based on principles that he has talked about for years, principles the "left fringe" has always believed in. Since "we`re the change we`ve been waiting for", I`d be surprised if enthusiasm for that change evaporates after this election.

[BrainDrain]

516. I would NOT vote for HRC......

under any circumstances.

Period.

No. Arguments.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

520. Thanks. This thread let me fine tune my ignore list a bit more.

You drew out the usual enablers for crappy Dem candidates to proclaim that we must support Party above principle.

[pinebox]

525. When in doubt, hit me up & I'll show you who you should ignore lol

[PonyUp]

528. Me too. Over 500 replies and I see less than half that. Ignore is my friend! n/t

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

524. Pfft... Non-story. Hundreds of thousands have been leaving both Parties for years

It's probably a good thing, too.

[Fla Dem]

527. They aren't Democrats. They're Republicans who registered as Dems to vote for Bernie

against HRC because they would rather go up against him in the GE.

Also, this is one anti-Hillary blogger's remarks supported by no facts.

[liberal_at_heart]

529. Already gone. I left when Race to the Top and Common Core crippled our education system.

[beachbum bob]

530. you are clearly wrong...a hillary nomination is the ONLY path to victory as sanders

would be destroyed once corporate media launches the attacks on him...no soccer mom would vote for a communist-socialist-paficist to be president.......if the soccer moms flock to the republicans,kiss the election goodbye...

I see and read the threats every day by sanders supporters threatening to take their ball home if sanders doesn't win...to me that is a slap in the face that they rather see america in RUINS than support our party's nominee...I say go for it and those people will have the blood on their hands and will pay the price if a conservative gets in the whitehouse....but don't say you acted as a proud democrat, progressive or liberal because they are not any of those....it a shame on america

[tazkcmo]

532. That's O.K.

The Democratic Party doesn't need or want Sen Sanders' supporters anyway. This is evidenced by the comments in this post. Name calling, derision and the like. That's fine. It only reinforces my decision to go Independent after this election, also. I've quit jobs because the employer didn't reflect my values or represented all that is wrong with this country so quitting a political party that works against my best interests is super easy.

[closeupready]

536. Yes, neither the DNC nor Hillary want or need Sanders' supporters, correct.

So no love will be lost, and we'll have a President Trump likely.

The silver lining to that outcome is it will prime voter expectations for a Democratic win in 2020, and by that time, the pendulum will have swung WAY to the left.

[wryter2000]

534. Hello, President Trump!

eom.

[Bread and Circus]

541. Hillary and the gang better be careful... there is a significant contigent of the party that's ready

to just say "fuck this".

If all you got left is Dixieland and Corporate Sponsors, you are gonna be in trouble.

[harun]

548. +1

She could come out and give a few guaranteed Progressive promises and take care of the issue but she won't because she has never taken a true Progressive stance on anything.

[PonyUp]

565. Guaranteed progressive promises. LOL. The weathervane will promise everything for a vote. n/t

[raouldukelives]

543. Once she releases the transcripts and we all see her harsh words

and condemnation of Wall St leaders and its embezzlement that destroyed our country she will sway a large percentage of them back.

She just has to get them out there so we can all read her words taking them to task.

[Herman4747]

547. Hillary needs to drop out. NOW.

we can't be having a "54% - disapproved candidate;" the election is too important.

[BainsBane]

554. The person with 1.5 million votes MORE than Sanders

should drop out because you don't like her? Because you and those like you matter so much more than the majority?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/democratic_vote_count.html

No. It doesn't work that way.

[Herman4747]

563. You present some evidence that Hillary is more popular...

...among Democrats voting in primaries. But what about Hillary's popularity among INDEPENDENTS, whose support to some noteworthy degree will be necessary in November?

Compare that to Quinnipiac's polling from this year. Between March 2015 and December, Clinton's net favorability -- those viewing her favorably minus those viewing her unfavorably -- sank from +3 among all voters to negative 8, an 11 point change. But among Independents that figure went from +4 to negative 27, a swing of 31 points.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/26/independents-like-hillary-clinton-less-than-in-2008/

You see, buddy, unlike the fervent Hillary supporters, Independents are far less likely to approve of all the lies & insincerity Hillary has shown the American people.

The last time a major candidate lied as notably as Hillary was when Mitt Romney got the Republican nomination. Some human analog to you on the Republican side would have undoubtedly exclaimed: "He's far ahead of Jon Huntsman in total votes, so he should be our candidate!" But the lies caught up to Mitt, who wound up losing despite the near-9% unemployment rate.

DAMN IT, I WANT TO WIN IN NOVEMBER!!!

[annabanana]

549. as a Sanders supporter

I say bullshit

[pinebox]

578. As a Sanders supporter I say

Go digging and see the poll a Hillary supporters in this thread that shows a USA Today poll that says 41% of Sanders supporters won't vote for Clinton if she is the nominee.

It is what it is.

Nice name by the way XD I dig it! heh

[davidthegnome]

555. It's the economy.

The county I live in (Aroostook) up here in northern Maine, has a, frankly, embarrassing voting record. We played a large part in electing LePage...

We rate among the highest in the Nation as far as poverty goes, lack of opportunity, lack of jobs, poor infrastructure, job benefits, diversity, business growth... the list goes on and on. We also rank rather poorly in regards to education. Still, you will find a good number of progressives up here, particularly in the more educated parts of the state, in universities, and so on.

I unfortunately live in an area that even our own elected representatives often ignore. This part of the state of Maine in which I live is at least a decade or two behind most of the rest of the Country. Very rural, very white, often ignorant and so on and so forth... to us, it frequently hasn't mattered who we voted for, because few gave enough of a damn to do anything to address the issue of poverty up here. Few did anything to address our crumbling infrastructure (yes, it is bad elsewhere - but it is TERRIBLE here).

I am experiencing (and have been, for all of my adult life) the troubles of poverty, of poor opportunity, of ignorance, a very weak, poorly funded education system. I have watched the small schools closing, I have watched some of our best educators, some of our brightest minds, some of the best of us, leave the state because Maine simply did not offer enough. In the last couple of decades, the population in my county has shrunken by half.

We used to have many mills. The towns surrounding the area where I live used to have good jobs, good schools, high employment rates - and so on and so forth. As those things continue to disappear, we see the rise of poverty, of drug use, of alcoholism, of the tea party, of conservative ignorance and so on... the weaker our economy becomes, the lower our population, the more this state turns red.

Democrats like myself are fighting a losing battle in these parts of the Country. We are faced with many people who point out to us that neither political party has done a whole lot of good for our areas. The ACA passed - but medicaid expansion did not, thousands of poor Mainers cannot get (and have no way to get) health insurance, or any kind of assistance despite crushing poverty.

This State is likely to vote for whichever candidate uses the best hype, whichever convinces us that they will be better for the economy, for job growth, wage increase, access to healthcare, etc.

[staggerleem]

557. I said goodbye to the DNC after the 2014 Mid-Terms.

Still a registered Democrat, mind you, but the party leadership is now quite obviously more concerned with it's tenuous grasp on power than on the well being of the nation and it's people ... a topic that has not been of significant concern t the Republican party since at least the Nixon years, if not earlier. So, there will be no more "Party" contributions from me! Any political contribution I make this year will be directly to individual, specific candidates.

So, Bernie is pulling the Democrats left, and Trump is pulling the Republicans ... well, apparently right, but who knows how he'd govern? The "perfect storm" referenced by the OP is occurring - on BOTH sides!

Like that ancient Chinese curse says - we live in interesting times!

[CalvinballPro]

558. I lived through PUMA in 2008, nothing these people are doing is any different this time around.

September and October have a way of sobering people up.

[Bread and Circus]

559. This is a serious situation.

[Nitram]

560. Sounds like a supermarket tabloid headline.

Posting speculation like this is irresponsible.

[pinebox]

579. Not speculation however

but rather well, go digging in the thread here for the USA Today poll saying 41% of Sanders supporters won't vote for Hillary if she's the nominee.

[Nitram]

581. Well, we'll see

Most of them wouldn't have bothered to vote anyway if they are that lackadaisical about letting the Republicans choose the next 2 or 3 Supreme court Justices. We don't need DINOs like that anyway.

[pinebox]

582. Many aren't DINOS

They are progressives who won't support a 1%er. I get it.

[Nitram]

598. If they won't support the Democratic nominee, they are DINOs by definition. NT

[pinebox]

599. Indy's who switched affiliation in order to vote Bernie aren't DINO's

Sorry, they were never Dems to begin with and it's a pile of shit people have to switch affiliation to vote or caucus for a candidate. People should be able to do that without going through a circus of political bullshit

[Nitram]

600. If they will omly vote for Berrnie, who is a DINO, they are DINOs.

Blame the system, but not my use of words.

[pinebox]

601. You guys are funny

I have to laugh because one of the main arguments from Hillary supporters is "they aren't Dems" and then you say this.
Which is it?
Oh I do blame the system, it's royally screwed. We can start with ditching delegates.

[Nitram]

603. Pinebox, amusing that you assume all Clinton supporters think alike. Is that true of...

... Bernie supporters?

[pinebox]

617. I can right now show you a massive thought process taking place

among Clinton supporters. #VettingBernie
And yes I will say that most Bernie supporters won't support Hillary should she be the nominee.

[Nitram]

620. You're so cute, pinebox, when you are talking tough.

Have fun with that unpleasant state of mind. Don't worry, you'll get over it eventually, and be a better person for it.

[pinebox]

622. Not as cute as you having a history

of being condescending to other members of DU though XD
https://www.google.com/search?q=Nitram&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&gws_rd=ssl
Don't worry, we understand that you're upset that people can't stand your lying queen.

[Nitram]

623. One need only look at your nasty comments in this very thread to know where you're coming from.

Comparing Clinton to Reagan is apparently what passes for insight among your cohort. "Your lying Queen?" LOL When you comment that way you bring condescension on yourself.

[gg4usa]

589. We still need to STOP TRUMP NOW!

Pundits are now saying that Trump is the weak Repub - that he's the only one that Clinton can beat. I don't buy it - the GOP establishment is pushing for Cruz because they know they can control him. Trump is a disaster for all of us! I still think Trump will run third party if he doesn't get the nomination (his ego will not let him do otherwise) - this would split the GOP ticket and be a shoe-in for the Democrat. If you are torn between Sanders and Clinton you should opt for the Republican ballot (if you can in your state) and vote Cruz to keep Trump from becoming the GOP nominee. Sanders and Clinton are really not that far apart in their viewpoints and could choose the other as a running mate or other high office. Don't be fooled by all the media hype. Democrats can beat Cruz - he is a smarmy bug disliked by his fellow GOP senators who will crawl under a rock once the light of truth is shone upon him. Democrats can beat Cruz, so vote for him now before the media crowns Trump with the presidency.

[pinebox]

615. I'm not worried about Trump. RNC will ditch him

RNC is already starting to throw him under the bus. Say hello to a brokered convention. There's where your REAL problem is should Hillary be the nominee. She loses to everybody but Trump

[gg4usa]

631. I don't believe it

The RNC is spinning it to influence the election - we just starting hearing this pitch (that Hillary will lose against anyone but Trump) when it became obvious that Trump would likely win the Repub nomination.

[pinebox]

632. It's already starting

Why do you think Romney filed with the FEC?

[salinsky]

602. Truth ...

[pinebox]

616. Lesser of 2 evils is still evil

[Freddie Stubbs]

606. Millions have already voted. How many have left the party so far?

[pinebox]

614. Probably a ton

Although I think they will wait until mostly after the general or if Hillary is the nominee & then say see ya.

[basselope]

612. I came BACK to this party for Bernie. Hillary does not represent me or my beliefs.

I will leave the party for sure and re-register as an independent.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

626. I dont think you are alone. I think there are a lot of Bernie supporters

who care almost only about their financial welfare and they see Bernie as the resolution to that.

He sure as hell would make all our lives better in that regard, which is why I support him.

But unlike some here my support of him does not mean I am willing to sentence minorities and Muslims and gays to a life of hell on earth because I dont get my way.

[basselope]

630. Well... if I was voting MY financial welfare...

I would be voting for Trump, as Bernie's plans would mean a MAJOR HIT to my take home.

Hillary voted for the Iraq war which sentenced many Muslims to hell on earth (and killed hundreds of thousands of them as well). In fact, every foreign policy decision she made while secretary of state made life worse for Muslim's in the middle east. Gays didn't do too well under Clinton Part I and I don't see much room for progress under Clinton part II.

In short... no way I am voting for another Clinton.

I wouldn't vote for Trump either, even though it would be in my financial interest to do so.

I will go back to voting Green like I did in 2008 and 2012.

No more center right DINOs for me.

[TBF]

618. After the coin tosses & Bill with bullhorn

I have had it. I am switching to unaffiliated.