2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumVideo Surfaces of Hillary Clinton Blaming Homeowners for Financial Crisis
The only problem with that argument is that its not even close to factually correct.
Clinton in 2007: Homeowners should have known they were getting in over their heads
When Clinton ran for president during her second term as New Yorks U.S. Senator, she gave a tepid speech at the NASDAQ headquarters on December 5, 2007 before the financial crisis reached a boiling point about reforming Wall Streets housing loan practices, largely excusing financial criminals for their behavior.
Now these economic problems are certainly not all Wall Streets fault not by a long shot, Clinton said early in the speech.
http://usuncut.com/politics/video-surfaces-of-hillary-clinton-blaming-homeowners-for-financial-crisis/
There is a formidable Treasure Trove of Video documentation that will decimate Hillary and the Democrat Brand during the general election and Hillary supporters on this forum are trying to claim Bernie's characterization of Wall St is Boogeyman politics ...
Your candidate seriously has a Honesty problem ...
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Darb
(2,807 posts)And their employees wanted to hear what she has to say, and she quite possibly could be the next POTUS.
Fucking derrrrrrrrrrrr.
Quit whining about it.
Broward
(1,976 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)No one believes it - not even the pundits who casually discuss Hillary's obvious "Honesty Problem"
senz
(11,945 posts)You're coming into focus, Darb.
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)You are so right!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)This is a class war and it's time to choose sides. Clinton/Goldman-Sachs is not on the side of the 99%.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)And it's not going to change - Talk is cheap.
If elected she will triangulate on a dime.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)She can kiss my ass
Vinca
(50,276 posts)Can you imagine making $200,000 to $300,000 for about an hour's work? There has to be something expected in return.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)<iframe width="640" height="360" src="
" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)I'll make sure I have yours too.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)He knows what's going on. Would love to overhear his and Jane's private conversations.
amborin
(16,631 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Those fucking no good home owners are all at fault
Darb
(2,807 posts)Pretending that greed and opportunism and speculation of the end user was not part of the disaster is kidding yourself.
They didn't create the environment, but they participated in the hysteria.
FACT.
Again, the Bernies don't want to reside in rerality.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Nothing is too low for Hillary supporters
Darb
(2,807 posts)If you participated in that hysteria, you are partly to blame. Not wholly, but played a part.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)were stupid to trust Government and law. Just stupid. All their fault for being alive and wanting a house. Damn them, damn them for all time......
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)but still lost everything? The well to do are doing just fine, me not so much.
How about all of us?
Oh well, sucks to be us, now get in line for the coronation.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Happenstance24
(193 posts)My neighbor got a house, somehow refinanced it after 4 payments to buy a boat and ultimately lost them both. He knew he couldn't afford that, not by a long shot. He admitted as much after it was all over but said he didn't care. He wanted that house and then he wanted that boat. I'll never understand how he got where he did but he does deserve a portion of the blame.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)The mortgage broker talked him out of using the $30,000 as a down payment and talked him into a ARM Loan and using the $30,000 to remodel the house - told him once the value was increased he could refi to a fixed loan
The mortgage servicing company never once returned his calls until he agreed to "Short-Sell" the house
ret5hd
(20,493 posts)tricking those poor uneducated bankers into loaning him money. Taking advantage of those trusting honest lovable bankers, why...they oughta be strung up, I tell ya!
senz
(11,945 posts)But Republicans and "3rd Way Dems" oppose effective Bank regulations like Glass-Steagall.
Isn't that right, Darb.
Our home got caught up in that shit show. 18 years of never missing a payment. 1 year of paying a lawyer to pursue a non-responsive (didn't give a fuck) JPMC. My fault was it? Hey at least they had to pay me 300 bucks in the end. That'll teach 'em to cut it out.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)So much for Hillary's defense of Unfunded / Unenforceable Dodd Frank legislation
http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-mortgage-robo-signing-goes-205459921.html
Its just like Hillary supporters not able to understand why more folks are voting REPUBLICAN over Democrat. Its the Clinton stain on the Democratic Brand
TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)my home from me. Don't even. I know exactly what I am talking about. It was outright fraud, uninvestigated, and swept under the rug.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-wall-street_us_56b423e0e4b08069c7a6c432
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Mufaddal
(1,021 posts)Only Today's Hillary can be scrutinized (though of course, there is nothing to scrutinize), otherwise you are some kind of right-wing, misogynist bro who is stuck in the past.
TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)...but we should all vote for Hillary, because she has the most experience.
Mufaddal
(1,021 posts)It takes a little while, but once you learn to give up, drink the Kool Aid, and get your mind right, it all starts to acquire its own internal logic.
TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)Hillary and friends, are looking out for OUR best interest.
Everything is going to be fine.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)I don't know if it's the same speech to the same group, but I recall seeing something where she told a group of bankers, "It's not all your fault. Those reckless home buyers are partially to blame." (paraphrasing)
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Every level of American society chose greed over prudence.
*The government deregulated like their donors wanted.
* Wall Street committed fraud on a massive scale.
* The bond credit ratings agencies slapped AAA on toxic bond issues to keep their bank clients happy.
* Accounting firms knew that banks were moving toxic assets off their books to overseas subsidiaries before audits but chose to ignore it to keep their bank clients happy.
* Mortgage lenders, who are usually the gatekeepers, lowered their credit requirements to embarrassing levels knowing that they would be turning around and selling those mortgages (risk) off their books to Wall Street.
*Every Tom, Dick and Harry became a mortgage broker to make quick cash while they knowingly pedaled risky mortgage loans.
THE HOMEOWNER: Many people wanted in on the real estate boom so bad and were so sure that prices would only go up that they signed on to any loan that they could get their hands on. In addition, the middle class was already failing and many homeowners chose to use the phony equity in their houses as cash registers in an effort to uphold their standard of living.
SUMMATION: Though this video was heavily edited like the Planned Parenthoid videos, Hillary was totally correct. Homeowners cannot avoid their responsibility in the housing crash.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Panic Buying took place
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Are down thread. There are very different from what you are trying to sell.
modestybl
(458 posts)... people took out balloon loans with the assurance from their bankers/mortgage brokers that they would be able to easily re-finance when the rates changed in 5 years...
The Obama administration refused to even consider helping people refinance at their introductory rates.
BTW, the biggest group involved in the subprime loans were real estate speculators and house flippers.
Of course anyone who has a mortgage has bought more house than they could afford. You assume people who are your bankers and brokers have some amount of expertise and integrity. They didn't.
So HRC is blaming the poor, Republican-style, for the massive crimes of her Wall Street benefactors. And she share their fundamental dishonesty and lack of integrity.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)People were using the phony equity in their homes as a cash register. As for balloon loans, people bought into those thinking that real estate prices could only go up. Their bad.
modestybl
(458 posts)... at the time of the 2008 collapse. The big banks not only knew about how rotten the CDOs were they were selling, they were making side bets with CDOs... they, their brokers and the ratings agencies all knew and were engaging in massive fraud. Homeowners were lead to believe the housing market was always going up - the blame lies mostly with people in a position to know better.
We can't have a capitalist system without financing (mortgages) and we can't have one where the entire banking industry runs on fraud. The Obama admin did very little to help homeowners, and the recession threw millions out of work. If you are longt-term unemployed, it matters not whether you refinanced. They spent trillions making the banks whole.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)on the 2008 financial meltdown. surprisingly few Americans could have duplicated your post. I disagree though with your assessment on refinancing. Those responsible folks that refinanced to lower their lending costs were fine and safe. As for those 72% of foreclosure tied to refinancing, they were doing something very different. They were tapping into phony equity to maintain their standard of living or to invest in speculative real estate ventures. If you look at one of my earlier posts you will see that we essentially agree. I think, like Hillary, that there were many Americans out there that made greedy financial moves and cannot be absolved of any responsibility in the big picture.
CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)Congress took care of Wall St. at Main St.'s expense.
The federal rescue of Wall Street didnt fix the economy it created a permanent bailout state based on a Ponzi-like confidence scheme. And the worst may be yet to come
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/secret-and-lies-of-the-bailout-20130104
snip...
In the letters, Summers laid out a five-point plan in which the bailout was pitched as a kind of giant populist program to help ordinary Americans. Obama, Summers vowed, would use the money to stimulate bank lending to put people back to work. He even went so far as to say that banks would be denied funding unless they agreed to "increase lending above baseline levels." He promised that "tough and transparent conditions" would be imposed on bailout recipients, who would not be allowed to use bailout funds toward "enriching shareholders or executives." As in the original TARP bill, he pledged that bailout money would be used to aid homeowners in foreclosure. And lastly, he promised that the bailouts would be temporary with a "plan for exit of government intervention" implemented "as quickly as possible."
The reassurances worked. Once again, TARP survived in Congress and once again, the bailouts were greenlighted with the aid of Democrats who fell for the old "it'll help ordinary people" sales pitch. "I feel like they've given me a lot of commitment on the housing front," explained Sen. Mark Begich, a Democrat from Alaska.
But in the end, almost nothing Summers promised actually materialized. A small slice of TARP was earmarked for foreclosure relief, but the resultant aid programs for homeowners turned out to be riddled with problems, for the perfectly logical reason that none of the bailout's architects gave a shit about them. They were drawn up practically overnight and rushed out the door for purely political reasons to trick Congress into handing over tons of instant cash for Wall Street, with no strings attached. "Without those assurances, the level of opposition would have remained the same," says Rep. Raúl Grijalva, a leading progressive who voted against TARP. The promise of housing aid, in particular, turned out to be a "paper tiger."
There is democratic leadership, front & center selling out The People.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)It was up close and personal for just about everyone. If one didn't lose their home themselves, they know someone who did.
I lost mine after my husband died and my position was downsized. I had a 137k mortgage on my home. I asked the bank to work with me to lower the payments and the told me too bad so sad. I mailed my keys to the mortgage company and moved. I spoke to the new owners recently, they paid 30k for the house.
I didn't want out of my obligation, I just wanted to lower my payments so I could manage it.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)What else is new? My son and I had dinner last night and he told me even Berniebros know that site is propaganda. I hope you don't think it's influential - it's a joke of a website.
vintx
(1,748 posts)Well that tells me all I need to know about you
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)He's 23 and would be happy with either Clinton or Sanders. But he thinks the Sanders supporters hurt Sanders much more than they help.
Here is more info about the propaganda site Usuncut. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Uncut
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)where Honesty just doesn't count in a National Election
vintx
(1,748 posts)Did you see this post?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1425869
This makes the - whatever you want to call it - around here tolerable.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)took place without a contribution of average Americans taking advantage of cheap credit in an effort to keep up with the Jones'.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Don't think your on the right website for espousing that drivel
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)transcript in post #49 and then come back and preach to me about honesty.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)No preaching - just a statement of the facts
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)It's factual evidence that the OP was deceptive and taken out of context. You're sounding silly now. Just stop.
Bungalowgal
(33 posts)Responsibility belongs to mortgage lenders and brokers, who irresponsibly lowered underwriting standards, pushed risky mortgages, and hid the details in the fine print.
Responsibility belongs to the Administration and to regulators, who failed to provide adequate oversight, and who failed to respond to the chorus of reports that millions of families were being taken advantage of.
Responsibility belongs to the rating agencies, who woefully underestimated the risks involved in mortgage securities.
And certainly borrowers share responsibility as well. Homebuyers who paid extra fees to avoid documenting their income should have known they were getting in over their heads. Speculators who were busy buying two, three, four houses to sell for a quick buck don't deserve our sympathy.
But finally, responsibility also belongs to Wall Street, which not only enabled but often encouraged reckless mortgage lending. Mortgage lenders didn't have balance sheets big enough to write millions of loans on their own. So Wall Street originated and packaged the loans that common sense warned might very well have ended in collapse and foreclosure. Some people might say Wall Street only helped to distribute risk. I believe Wall Street shifted risk away from people who knew what was going on onto the people who did not.
Wall Street may not have created the foreclosure crisis, but Wall Street certainly had a hand in making it worse.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Trying to sell.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)They've gone to town with "They didn't build that". Those that feel it necessary to take the full statement that you posted above out of context, mean to deceive. I have no respect for such people that apply those deceptive tactics.
Bungalowgal
(33 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)where the transcript is available like this that shows that the post is ridiculous.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I was going to say nice try, but it's not even that. At all.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)
Bungalowgal This message was self-deleted by its author.
Bungalowgal
(33 posts)[link:
|FairWinds
(1,717 posts)". . hid the details in the fine print."
The loan docs are 40 pages of legalese. People do not read them - I did not read mine.
It would take weeks to do it.
Mortgage issuers have to be halfway honest for the system to work.
Home buyers own only a minor share of the blame.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)The person designated by law to interpret and protect the interest of the purchaser.
Even in my Rifi I hire the title officer
nvme
(860 posts)As a former Mortgage broker and real estate investor, I made many loans and flipped a lovely estate and made a nice profit. Clinton was right everyone buyers, sellers, RE agents, Appraiser, Mortgage brokers, banks, and closing companies were losing their minds. We all played musical chairs. No Income No Assets (NINA) loans NO DOC (no documents, only credit score was used to evaluate the loan) were not uncommon. They came with 5 year 5% prepayment penalties 7.5% variable rate with upwards of 6points adjustment after the 1st year. the adjustment was to be no more than 1 % point increase per year based on London Inter-Bank Overnight Rate (LIBOR). Everyone was assuming the bubble would keep expanding. Crack-houses were selling for $300k everyone wanted a piece. GREED and fear of not getting a house before they became too expensive to buy was what drove us. "Hey real estate never goes down rights? its real its solid it's something you could touch and see. It's not like stocks or markets that fluctuate"! The DOT com bubble pushed people to turn to RE. So Hillary saying that everyone Including those who wanted NO DOC loans share some blame she is Correct! Of course the banks misrepresented the risky nature of those high risk/high return bundled mortgage loans.THAT is another issue
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)You said it well
Were not those types of loan conditions brought on by additional deregulation of Bush's "Ownership Society" deregulation
zentrum
(9,865 posts)All those brilliant financiers played as suckers by a bunch of struggling Americans. My-my. Glad we gave them billions in restitution. What a relief they never had to give up their third car, their maids, or their swimming pools.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)speculators, appraisers, people who failed to believe home prices could drop, home purchasers, builders, and more who just thought home prices would keep escalating.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Gimme a Fucking Break
When Democrats start fucking mimicking RATpubliCON Talking Points to defend their candidate there is something very fucking WRONG
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)and you would expect a Democratic Candidate to point out the obvious - but Nooo - she jumps the shark and starts with the home owners
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)It's the black community's fault that predatory lenders were allowed to flourish in their communities. Let's not forget the millions of shattered lives left in the wake of Wall Street's predatory lending to black communities. Where the color of your skin dictated the kind of deal the corrupt bankers offered, and their loans were always designed to force the homeowners into bankruptcy and the loss of their homes, many times homes that were in the family for generations.
Cook County, Illinois, is home to the city of Chicago, filed a lawsuit in federal court on Friday against the nations largest mortgage lender. The suit alleges that Wells Fargo contributed to the housing crisis, which the county claims has cost it millions of dollars in lost property tax and the cost of having to deal with abandoned buildings, among other issues. The lawsuit says damages could exceed $300 million.
Wells Fargo deliberately issued home loans with high interest rates and inflated or improper fees to black and Hispanic borrowers, many of whom would not have qualified for a traditional loan, the suit alleges. The lawsuit also charges that the bank did so even when it was clear the borrowers wouldnt be able to keep up with the costly payment plans.
Such practices are known as equity stripping, the suit says, because they stripped and continue to strip borrower home equity. As a result, the chances that minority borrowers would fall behind on payments or be forced to submit to foreclosures were increased, it said.
Between 2000 and August 2014, Wells Fargo allegedly made about 55,000 loans to minority homeowners in Cook County that are suspected of being predatory and discriminatory, according to a statement released by Cook County Board President Toni Preckwinkle and Cook County State Attorney Anita Alvarez.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/wells-fargo-loans-lawsuit_n_6261356.html
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Quixote1818
(28,946 posts)The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)Fairgo
(1,571 posts)there seem to be a pattern here that bespeaks a flawed character.