Bernie's tax plan: An annual $4700 tax bill for middle class families.

[kstewart33]

Based on an independent assessment by the Tax Policy Center.

The top 0.1 percent would see their tax bills go up by more than $3 million, the report said, which would cut their after-tax incomes by almost half.

But Sanders, going where few politicians dare, would also raise taxes on middle- and low-income families, with those in the dead center of the income spectrum facing a $4,700 tax increase. That would reduce their after-tax incomes by 8.5 percent, the report said.

The report underscores the stark choice facing Democratic primary voters when it comes to tax policy.
Rival Hillary Clinton has proposed a number of tax increases as well, but she has targeted the wealthy and on businesses, and plans a tax cut for those further down the income ladder.

“There is a very, very clear choice,” said Len Burman, head of the non-partisan Tax Policy Center. “They really couldn’t be more different.”

“Bernie Sanders is very open about raising taxes on everybody, with the argument that people at all income levels are going to be benefiting from the new spending programs that he’s proposing,” Burman said.

[link:http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/bernie-sanders-tax-increases-220267|

[Csainvestor]

1. My family pays more for Obamacare

Last edited Sat Mar 5, 2016, 12:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Most people pay insurance right out of their paycheck, it might as well be a tax, its not distinguishable from how we pay now.

$4,500 is better than $9,000 which is what my family now pays for Obamacare

[FreakinDJ]

10. My family pays $13000 for Obamacare

$4500 sounds like a heck of a Good Deal

[TheBlackAdder]

25. I thought RW talking point OPs were not allowed on DU. nt

[mhatrw]

43. The Tax Policy Center

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Policy_Center

In 2002, tax specialists who had served in the Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, and Bill Clinton administrations established the Tax Policy Center to provide analysis of tax issues.

TPC is funded by individuals, corporations, trade groups, and foundations including the Ford Foundation, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and the Rockefeller Foundation.

***

So Rockefeller Republicans lie about Bernie Sanders' proposals.

[Punkingal]

2. That's $2500 less than I currently pay for health insurance, so I'm good with that.

[yodermon]

3. .. Which will be MORE than offset by reduction in health insurance premiums.

Bernie Sanders will be LOWERING the average families' monthly government-mandated expenses.

[dickthegrouch]

29. Not to mention the $15600 in increased wages

If the minimum wage is raised from $7.50/hr to $15.00 that's an additional $15,600 in the earner's pocket (if they work 2080 hours), more than enough to pay an extra $4700 dollars in taxes with, and still be more than $10,000 better off.

Math challenged people disgust me.

[Gwhittey]

4. Seriously can you be any more

dishonest or are you actually think this is a true statement? This is something GOP does to fool people and you are falling for it hook line and sinker. X + Y - Z = X+Y is what that article is claiming. And that is not true unless Z is zero. The article "forgets" to mention the savings that you are not paying to a 3rd party after this plan. Sean Hannity forums are over that way ------->

[hobbit709]

5. "There's lies, damned lies, and statistics."

[UglyGreed]

6. Tax Meme yeah!!!

I was getting tired of the old memes anyway!!!!

[kath]

7. How utterly DISHONEST of you.

We are paying $12K per year just in medical premiums, then there are the copays and HUGE deductibles.

[Broward]

8. Another dishonest assessment leaving healthcare savings out of the equation.

No surprise that people are misinformed.

[JaneyVee]

9. This is the type of headline that leads to downticket Dem disasters.

No thanks.

[Gregorian]

15. So then why did you recommend it?

I'm not asking to be snarky. I'm asking because this is how the Democratic party dies.

We argue with truths, not lies.

[kstewart33]

18. Gregorian, I wish that were the truth.

Unfortunately, it is not.

[kstewart33]

16. Exactly. That is the point of my post.

As I've written in earlier posts, Bernie is not electable for many reasons and his taxing the middle class is a big one of them.

You're absolutely right. His tax policies will cost the Democrats many down ballot races as will many aspects in his biography. In fact, the Republican assault on Bernie in the general election would decimate many down ballot races if Bernie won the nomination.

Perhaps I should have been more clear.

As for the messenger's veracity (The Tax Policy Center), they regularly do tax impact assessments for Democrats and Republicans.

[cherokeeprogressive]

34. Lies. The OP and this post are nothing but lies.

[Gregorian]

11. They manipulated the math to make it appear as though Bernie is a monster.

And on a Democratic forum, no less. Who is the enemy?

[Gwhittey]

12. Tactics like these

Are why there is a movement going on trying to counter low information posters and being suckered in by M$M. The GOP is right that M$M is biased, sad thing is they are Biased towards what is good for Large corporations they love. Hences Hillary. If Trump wins in Nov you are going to see all the M$M shift over to him. Just like they sold us on Iraq war they are now selling people like OP on Hillary and our next Middle East War.
Halliburton stocks time to go up so we must Elect Hillary
Stock price: HAL (NYSE) $34.87 +0.70 (+2.05%)

[Nanjeanne]

13. Reading Politico without reading the whole analysis is really taking a shortcut

In addition, the TPC is run by two ex-George W & George H Bush tax people - so you know which way they lean in their analysis. Then there is the completely different analysis by the Citizens for Tax Justice.

To see who is running which organizations - take a look at:

TPC - Robert C. Pozen Former chairman of MFS Investment Management, the oldest mutual fund company in the United States. For 15 years, he was a key executive at Fidelity Investments, ending as vice-chairman. He was Secretary of Economic Affairs for the State of Massachusetts in 2002–03, was a member of President George W. Bush’s Commission to Strengthen Social Security in 2001-02, and chairman of the SEC Advisory Committee on Financial Reporting in 2007-08. Mr. Pozen serves on several boards, including Medtronic, Nielsen and a subsidiary of the World Bank

William A. Gale. Prior to joining Brookings in 1992, he was an assistant professor in the Department of Economics at the University of California, Los Angeles, and a senior staff economist for the Council of Economic Advisers under President George H.W. Bush.

CTJ: CTJ was founded in 1979 by labor unions and public interest groups[12] in response to the growing anti-tax movement’s recent passage of California’s Proposition 13.[13] Shortly thereafter, CTJ’s sister organization, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), was created to provide CTJ with additional analytical expertise.
Board of Directors: Wayne Cox of Minnesota for Tax Justice, Gerald McEntee-former labor leader from PA served as Pres of ASCME, Michael J. Sullivan-former Pres of Sheet Metal Workers Intl Assoc. ETC.

I know which organization has "my" interests at heart.

Even with that - I read the whole 50 pages - and they are basing their tax numbers on all of Sanders taxes. Well that is not just healthcare but it also includes tuition free college, expanding and securing Social Security, a Jobs Bill, a Youth Program and a Carbon tax to help control pollution.

It also does not mention the savings people can expect from not paying health insurance premiums. Or for college. It doesn't really analyze how the economy can grow based on having a real Jobs Bill or what the advantages would be to the economy for young people with a Youth Program - or measure how pollution will be diminished by the carbon tax - much less how seniors will be helped by expanding and securing Social Security. The $4,700 tax "increase" is only an increase if you don't get more back. If you give me $4,700 but I give you $8,000 - you are the winner. Reporting their "after-tax income reduction" is crazy if you also don't include their after-tax savings on healthcare, etc.

But if all you care about is a sound-bite - then Politico's article is for you! Or you could read the whole TPC analysis and then also read the Citizens for Tax Justice analysis and make your own conclusions.

[frazzled]

14. But none of it will happen

Because Congress passes tax bills, not the president. And no Congress is going to pass a $15 trillion dollar tax increase. None. No matter how many Sanders supporters sign a petition or post an argument on their Facebook pages. I will bet my first-born grandchild on it.

And ergo, no single-payer health plan, no free college tuition.

Often times, promising too much is like promising nothing at all. I'd rather get something than nothing.

The revolution is a nice dream, but it would take a dictator to achieve it. 2017 is not 1917, when a fundamental restructuring of a nation occurred (we're about to come up on that anniversary), though it took quite a bit of bloodshed. Besides, that didn't work out so well anyway over time.

[yodermon]

41. wrong. Campaign on single payer, *get* a public option.

Obama campaigned on the public option (WEAKLY, imo), and we got the ACA with a mandate to buy private insurance.

[DefenseLawyer]

17. Who knew how many Democrats agree with Grover Norquist

and Milton Friedman and Ronald Reagan on taxes? I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[Major Nikon]

19. Results...

On Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:14 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Bernie's tax plan: An annual $4700 tax bill for middle class families.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511417418

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

My first ever alert. I resisted this until seeing what I believe to be inappropriate smearing with lies. This manipulated piece lies about Bernie's plan. It shouldn't stand on a Democratic forum.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:23 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I'm a Bernie supporter and volunteer so I took the time to try to figure out why you are calling it smearing and lies. I was inclined to leave it in order to not be partisan and instead let people comment on it in normal process.

I see now that its backed by Bush-ites so I will vote to hide, but Alerter, in the future you should make this easier for the jury by providing whatever evidence you have so we don't have to spend time researching. If the alert fails to get a HIDE, it may be for that reason.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's bullshit, but it's not in violation of the TOS and it's been thoroughly debunked.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Unfortunately, not hide-worthy. Just cherry-picked data without the whole picture that keeps getting put up over and over and over again by the same people. It's dishonest and disingenuous, and the responders in this thread have already proved the OP's fallacy. So leave it as an example of a bullshit meme.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Provide a link to counter the piece, or start your own thread to explain why is manipulates Bernie's plan.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If you don't agree with the TPC, then post a reply. Alerting on something reproduced verbatim from a non-biased source just isn't that bright and makes you look like the HRC bots.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[mak3cats]

22. You beat me to it...

...I was Juror #3.

[kstewart33]

27. Major, where are the "lies" in my post and/or the article which I linked?

The Tax Policy Center has long been recognized as an independent evaluator of proposed tax policies. That's why Democrats and Republicans use them.

The last paragraph in my post: “Bernie Sanders is very open about raising taxes on everybody, with the argument that people at all income levels are going to be benefiting from the new spending programs that he’s proposing,” Burman said.

That's Bernie's main justification for his tax policy.

[Major Nikon]

30. The alerter will have to answer that question

Or the person who voted to hide.

[kstewart33]

35. Oops, sorry.

I misread the alert post.

[Kang Colby]

20. I don't get it.

Is this article suggesting Bernie will sponsor this tax hike next year in the Senate? I'm not sure which has a lower probability, Bernie's nomination or this tax hike passing. Probably the tax hike.

I'm not sure why someone would try to run on such fantasyland nonsense, but I'm happy that his campaign is going to be wrapping up soon, which will allow us to get back to the business at hand....defeating Republicans in 2016.

[lumberjack_jeff]

21. Bernies health care plan: An annual $16,655 insurance savings for the average family.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/family-coverage/

[Major Nikon]

36. The idea that single payer will be free isn't a very good one

Those who can't afford it already have single payer. The vast majority of those who can afford it are already paying more and in many instances are getting less.

[lumberjack_jeff]

38. "$4700 in new taxes" is premised on the idea that we aren't already paying it.

I like, approve, appreciate and try to practice intellectual honesty.

When the argument is about "Bernie's new taxes on middle class people", I already know that intellectual honesty is out the window.

[Major Nikon]

40. I wouldn't say it's intellectually dishonest

Even Bernie himself is saying the same thing. I do think claiming the idea is unfeasible is intellectually dishonest, and particularly so when one is directly contradicting themselves.

[Vinca]

23. Is it possible for this particular attack to be posted 6 or 7 more times?

Someone might have missed it. Once again . . . which would you rather have? An $8,000 health insurance bill or a $4,700 tax bill?

[mak3cats]

24. 6 or 7 is probably a low estimate...

...the crap memes keep popping up over and over and over and over and over...

[andym]

26. This is why we don't have single payer today. Increased taxes vs premiums, deductibles and co-pays.

People have to be willing to pay the increased taxes to get the overall savings. Many stop listening after they hear the word "increase." This needs to be discussed and debunked far beyond DU, or there will never be single-payer. This is how the GOP attacks Medicare as well, fortunately, so far they have not been able to eliminate it.

[tularetom]

28. Lying by omission

The "independent analysis" leaves out a number of facts.

And it certainly calls into question the impartiality of the Tax Policy Center.

And definitely the integrity of the OP.

[MaggieD]

31. And that assumes he is telling the truth

.... about the costs of his proposals, which he is not. The taxes would be double what is discussed here if he were honest.

[INdemo]

32. This is totally False

(Show us the link)
Based on an independent assessment by the Tax Policy Center.

This Politico article is taken from David Brock's recent statements whereby he lied on CNN and MSNBC
The following statement is false.
"But Sanders, going where few politicians dare, would also raise taxes on middle- and low-income families, with those in the dead center of the income spectrum facing a $4,700 tax increase. That would reduce their after-tax incomes by 8.5 percent, the report said"


These are the facts:
for a person earning 52,000 medium income
employee Payroll tax would be for Health Insurance = Annual= $1,100 with no health insurance premiums
Employer tax for insurance for this employee is Annual= $3200 (with no insurance premium)

Employer premiums and employee contributions for family medical care benefits, March 2013

October 17, 2013 http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2013/ted_20131017.htm

In March 2013, private industry employers who did not require their employees to contribute to family medical care benefits paid an average monthly premium of $1,152 per employee. Private industry employers who required employees to contribute to family medical care benefits paid an average monthly premium of $859, and the employee's average contribution was $442 per month.

Among employers not requiring employees to contribute to medical care benefit plans, business establishments with 50 to 99 workers paid about the same monthly premium per employee as establishments with 100 to 499 workers ($1,094 and $1,090, respectively). Large establishments with 500 workers or more paid the highest monthly premium at $1,266 per employee.

Current Insurance avg. premiums
Employer average Monthly premiums per Employee =$1152 or Annual premium$13824
Employee average Monthly Insurance premium $859 or $10,308
Employee average Annual savings = $9,200.00
Employer average Annual savings = $7,108.00


So politico made the statement about the tax increase with out any valid proof and porbably with the thought that for those that read their article would just take this at face value and not bother (of course they dont) to do the research.

So this has become a talking point with the Hillary Campaign especially with David Brock when he goes on MSNBC and CNN and none of the Hosts bother to question him as to what just happen recently.
this is from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and some political rag that is being quite bias for Hillary and in fact just had two co-founders resign because of the inaccurate political bias.

(This is the proof that politico is wrong
http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2013/ted_20131017.htm

[kstewart33]

33. This is getting ridiculous.

Math manipulation? Lies? Dishonesty?

The Tax Policy Center has it out for Bernie? Republicans and Democrats have been relying on the TPC for years because of their independence. The TPC's independence is one of the few things that both parties actually agree on.

Did my post ignore the benefits of Bernie's health care proposals? Did anyone read the last sentence of my post?

“Bernie Sanders is very open about raising taxes on everybody, with the argument that people at all income levels are going to be benefiting from the new spending programs that he’s proposing,” Burman said.

Did anyone read the article which I linked? You know where it says that Clinton will raise taxes by $1 trillion and she has yet to provide details about how she will do so without taxing the middle class?

Outraged Bernie supporters are correct in one respect. Outrage will be the response by the electorate when the Republican assassination squad makes sure that every middle class voter in the electorate knows the number $4700 in the general election campaign if Bernie wins the nomination. Bernie is unelectable and the price will be losses in many down ballot races which will set the liberal cause back many years. That has been my major point in several prior posts, and in this one, although my point should have been more clearly expressed.

[basselope]

37. Pay $4700 to save $13K?????

Wow. Sounds like an AWESOME deal.

[ThePhilosopher04]

39. Bernie saving Americans money and providing health care!

Hillary wants Americans to pay private taxes to insurance companies and ration care. Choice is simple. #FeelTheBern

[libtodeath]

42. From the article

“We do not account for the effects of the new government programs on income,” said Burman. “We focused on the tax side, and we’re not really experts on the spending component.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/bernie-sanders-tax-increases-220267#ixzz423PF3Vrx

So it is simply a half lie.