What Will Many Bernie Sanders Voters Do After July?

[Purveyor]

The hard-bitten, corporatist Democrats are moving Hillary Clinton through the presidential primaries. They are using "Republican-speak" to beat down Bernie Sanders as favoring Big Government and more taxes and they may unwittingly be setting the stage for a serious split in the Democratic Party.

What is emerging is the reaction of millions of Sanders supporters who will feel repudiated, not just left behind, as the Clintonites plan to celebrate at the Democratic Convention in July. The political experience gained by the Sanders workers, many of them young, helped Sanders register primary victories over Hillary in Colorado, Oklahoma, Minnesota, Vermont and New Hampshire with their energy and votes. They came close in Nevada and Massachusetts and probably won in Iowa.

Hillary's rhetoric has outraged Sanders' supporters. She berates Sanders regularly for not being practical or realistic about his Medicare-for-all, breaking up big banks, a $15 minimum wage, a tax on Wall Street speculation and carbon and getting big money out of politics. Clinton's putdowns exemplify why so many people who back Sanders want to defeat her. Clinton is the candidate of the status quo, favored over all other candidates from both parties by the Wall Street crowd and quietly adored by the military-industrial complex who see Generalissima Clinton as a militarist who would maintain the warfare state.

Democrat Robert Reich, former Secretary of Labor under Bill Clinton, derided this "We Shouldn't Even Try" attitude common among many frightened Democrats. These are, in Reich's words, "the establishment Democrats - Washington lobbyists, editorial writers, inside-the-Beltway operatives, party leaders and big contributors who have grown comfortable with the way things are." These hereditary Democrat opinion-shapers tell their audiences that Hillary personifies experience and electability. They argue it is either Clinton or Trump or some other crazed Republican.

Here we go again. Every four years, the Democratic leaders define the Democratic candidate by how bad the Republicans are. This is designed to panic and mute their followers. Every four years, both parties become more corporatist. Sanders' voters want to define the Democratic Party by how good it can be for the people. And these Sanders voters may not go back into the Democratic Party fold.

more...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ralph-nader/what-will-many-bernie-san_b_9385436.html

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. That last sentence IS right.

We may not go back into the Democratic Party fold.

It could very well happen.


I am a life-long, proud, liberal Democrat. The Party is heading away from me and people like me. I'm not too old to go elsewhere...

Not this year, though.......not yet.

[Downwinder]

26. I'm old enough to exit.

Last edited Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Think I'll wait and see the inducements to stay around.

[madfloridian]

35. So am I, CP. Voted Dem since I could vote. So tired and discouraged after the hate and racism...

that has filled this primary. There should have been none of that at all. Neither candidate is racist, but it started anyway.

When the primary began I was for Bernie, but I was also respecting Hillary. Things are changing now...the name calling, the smart alec icons meant to disparage us, the media bias, all of it.

Her campaign has painted Bernie and us as non-Democrats. They have done everything to discourage the new people excited by politics again. They have stepped to say that nothing is possible, no dreaming, no hoping...can't be done.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

37. I hear ya, my dear mad...it makes me sick too.

We have to be strong.

[kristopher]

66. Using racism deliberately to triangulate is what did it for me.

The cynicism embodied in the ploy by Clinton has created a level of revulsion in me I can't begin to describe, but suffice to say that I actually feel nauseous writing this.

[Gwhittey]

71. This is nothing new for her

She did same thing in 2008 vs Obama. All the African America Leaders where up in arms with her then. But now they are all standing behind Hillary. To me that is insane.

[jillan]

79. Me too. And Hillary just laughs it off.

60 y/o democrat my entire life and this is it. I'm done. This is no longer the Democratic Party I grew up with. I'm

[Baobab]

81. Q.) What is a medical economics experiment on live human country when 100,000 a year die for 20 year

A.) A CRIME against Humanity,


Isnt that CUTE?

[Live and Learn]

87. + a gazillion. I feel the same way. nt

[Gore1FL]

49. As the GOP disintegrates I wouldn't be surprised to see the Democratic Party move more right

That would create an opening for another second party to rise on the left. The Dems have fought for voters between the 40 yard lines for the last 20-30 years. In doing so, they forgot about the left.

[Baobab]

82. PRETENDING to be two parties is cheating..

when will the truth come out?

[stranger81]

91. Yep. If you think there's been an influx of conservatives

into the Democratic Party in the last 30 years, just wait until Trump drives a new wave out of the GOP and in our direction.

And the party will just accelerate its push towards the right. Always further and further to the right.

Makes me fucking sick.

[Joe the Revelator]

53. That is the key right there...if the party ceases to be progressive, then I can easily cease to be..

...a member of the party. I'm not in this for hero worship.

[Cali_Democrat]

2. This was written by Ralph Nader

[Blue_In_AK]

9. So what?

Nader isn't always wrong. In fact, he's often very correct.

[SCantiGOP]

24. Nader elected George W

Hope he is seated next to Scalia in hell.

[Krytan11c]

27. 13%

Of Florida democrats who voted did so for Bush. Blame them, not Nader.

[Gore1FL]

50. No he didn't

The Supreme Court did.

[SCantiGOP]

54. Without Nader

Florida is never in doubt and the Supremes never get involved -- as your screen name says.

[Gore1FL]

67. Florida wouldn't have been in doubt if they actually counted the vote. n/t

[SCantiGOP]

68. That is very true.

[JanMichael]

85. without gore not running a bad race and without the massive purge so the fuck what?

nader is not the reason bush was selected or did you forget the jeb run voter purge and the weak home state performance by gore?

in reality the purge put florida in play

[Gwhittey]

73. And here we

go this is just reinforcing the point of the OP. You value the party over the country and defeating the GOP is more important than staying true. If people like you and DNC would realize that if we actually stuck to principles and stop trying to make everything about beating the GOP we would actually destroy the GOP. Many (I) are not (I) because they are moderates somewhere between the GOP and DNC they are just people who hate the parties. We lose elections for DNC because low voter turn out, the GOP realize this why do you think they are trying to make it as hard as possible to vote. GOP wins when less Americans vote because America people are to the left, but we are being run form center right people because they would rather make 150 million dollars in 10 years serving large corporations than running the country for the people.

[Glamrock]

12. And posted on Huffington Post

[nichomachus]

15. Typical Mrs. Clinton response

Don't refute the argument -- attack the source.

So pathetic.

[Cali_Democrat]

16. How are you going to feel when Hillary accepts the Democratic nomination in Philadelphia?

[gcomeau]

21. Should that happen

I imagine everyone who gives a shit about the basic principles the party is supposed to stand for will feel depressedly resigned to no significant improvements occurring for the next 4 to 8 years and questions about why anyone even bothers to support the party will continue to grow and fester gradually building to their inevitable breaking point at some time in the future.


And I'd be interested if you have any concrete reason you would feel any differently. ("Because I wanted Hillary to win AND SHE DID WOO!" is not such a reason. Why you wanted her to win is the question.)

[PatrickforO]

31. More than that, the reason you wouldn't feel crappy if Hillary gets the nod has to do with your

confidence that she will actually do stuff in office that benefits you and your family, and perhaps if you're not completely corporate-owned and/or egocentric, the American people.

[Baobab]

84. If Hillary gets the nomination then the GOP likely will get their wish

Hillary will win.

Everybody knows Obama is a Republican. The stuff about them hating him is all a big act.

Look at how great Obama care has been for the GOP. It prevented single payer and it totally funnels money to reduce rich peoples bills by Preventing Care (TM)

[gcomeau]

86. Do me a favor...

...don't be on my side.

Clinton and Obama are too far right? Yes. They are Republicans? That's fucking insane.

[Baobab]

90. How do you define Republican? What do they want?

Do you know what "Republican" means? Where the word comes from?

Do you want to know why I say that, and mean it, or are you just engaging in partisan banter?

Google "progressive liberalisation" Exactly like that.


Or better yet, Google (without quotes "site:.in GATS WTO education" what do you get?

Come on.. what do you find, do you understand what you find?

[Lizzie Poppet]

32. I'll feel worried that President Trump will fuck things up, but good.

<snapevox>Obviously...</snapevox>

[madfloridian]

40. At this point I just don't care.

The ugliness will not have been worth it.

[Gwhittey]

75. I would be fine

with it if her record was not what it is. See some of us actually care what a elected official has done in past. We look at how they vote and who they are taking donations from. You and many other HRC supporters think we want Sanders to win because we are Sanders fans, in my case at least that is not the case. If there was a way 100% that I knew Hillary would at least try to implement same policies I would vote for her. But her just saying it after she has not tried at all since she left the White House and set her sites on Power. I mean she was a Arkansas resident for over 25 years, yet when it came time to run for a office she picked NY because it was easier to win. To me that is kinda sad. If she went to Chicago it would not been as bad because at least she was born there and raised there. Hell even DC would been OK because she lived there for a bit. But NY wtf did she have to do with NY.

[Logical]

93. Like the democratic party is settling for a terrible candidate who loves money and wallstreet. nt

[closeupready]

72. Shits given? Zero. It could be written by anyone.

If she wins the nomination and yet fails to get Sanders' endorsement, it's President Trump.

[bigwillq]

3. I will stay active and vote for candidates

I feel best serve my beliefs and values.

[bkkyosemite]

4. And again:

"Sanders' voters want to define the Democratic Party by how good it can be for the people. And these Sanders voters may not go back into the Democratic Party fold. "

[PowerToThePeople]

5. I will never vote Clinton.

There are downticket races where I will be voting "in the fold."

[highprincipleswork]

6. We'll celebrate the best nominee - Bernie Sanders.

[dana_b]

33. exactly because I STILL believe that he has a GOOD chance

to be the Democratic nominee.

[Jenny_92808]

55. Me too

Go Bernie!

[Wellstone ruled]

7. Well,this Democrat will be out there

working to get State and local Dems as well as whom ever our Parties Standard Barrier is,getting them elected. No way a third party,that is plain dumb and futile.

[whatchamacallit]

8. I've had enough burning bed

I'll be finding another way.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. Start campaigning for Bernie in the general election.

[GoneFishin]

17. Yep.

[Robbins]

11. Leave DU and Democratic party

i doudt i will be only one

[CincyDem]

13. This is the Repub/Tea Party dynamic - 4-6 years later.

Bernie had a choice to make last year. He could run as an independent in Nov 16. With limited exposure (as is often the case with independent general candidates) he might garner 2-3-4% of the vote but that might have been just enough to tip the scales to the Republican general candidate. Remember, while we were all appropriately confident that the Repub brand was severely tarnished, a year ago nobody would have predicted the dick-measuring shit fest we have now on the right.

So instead, he inserted himself into the democratic primary process. In doing so, he likely brought more attention to his issues, possibly drew HRC a little to the left (if only for the primaries), and set the stage for 2020/2024...not for him but for others of his ideology.

From our side of the aisle, we looked at Tom Tancredo and Jim DeMint and said "they're stark raving lunatics" but many Repubs saw in them a new voice. And they were shunned by main-stream Republicans. They're both off in la-la land now but their ideological offspring are wreaking havoc on what had once been a reasonable Republican party as well as the rest of the country.

From their side of the aisle, they look at Bernie Sanders and say "he's a stark raving lunatic" and he is pretty consistently and methodically shunned by the main-steam Democratic party machine.

For me, the big question is where does his ideological family tree go next. HRC is likely the last of the main-stream establishment generation within the Democratic party...and where will we land in 2024. Everyone thinks Warren but I would suggest we haven't met the next generation of Democratic party leadership and their relationship with voters will likely be a lot more like Bernie's than HRC's.

[RiverLover]

46. I hope you're right CincyDem!

I think its too late though. If anything, this bizarre election has shown how very entrenched Moneyed Interests are in running our govt and controlling our "representatives".

I think we need a strong new Populist Party. A Team to represent the People & the Planet, genuinely. Not just be running a con game where they talk pretty to us while running & then stab us in the back in office (while still talking pretty so the illusion can remain the same.)

[Arazi]

14. Go to Jackpineradicals.org and keep fighting for the 99%

They're committed to keeping the momentum going to change Washington

[retrowire]

25. This.

We don't need Bernie for the Political Revolution to continue. Though he'll forever be the father of it, we will carry on, win or lose.

[RiverLover]

45. +1

[Live and Learn]

88. +10,000 nt

[Kip Humphrey]

18. I'm sure the 3rd-Way Republicrats would love to see we FDR Progressives just go away.

To which I say, Tough! You failed at running the old Republican party; you've all but destroyed the Democratic party; and, we were here first; this is our party and we would like you to leave now, please.

[kristopher]

69. Exactly on point. +1

Thank you.

[Jarqui]

19. "define the Democratic candidate by how bad the Republicans are."

There's no doubt the Republican candidates are bad. Worst I can recall since Goldwater or Nixon and maybe ever.

The problem with Hillary to me is she's bad too. I really don't see her as much better. Because she's so dishonest and such a flip-flopper, you don't know what you're going to get. She's too unpopular to get a commanding majority in both houses - so she's limited in what she'll get accomplished beyond Republican-lite. She's never demonstrated the intellect and deep thinking to decide things on their merits - she decides them based upon what is most popular at the moment.

What legislative accomplishment has she bred and championed ? Nothing of significance. What has she ever run well? Nothing. Her campaign? No. The State Department? No.

Her Supreme Court pick? Will be someone who will not overturn Citizen's United ... because that is what helped her get out of the primary.

I'm not too worried about Hillary because I do not think she can beat the GOP. They'll rip her to shreds in the general election. Trump represents change. Hillary represents the status quo. People want change.

[redstateblues]

20. If it hadn't been for Ralph Nader

there would have never been an Iraq War. His narcissistic, "not a dimes worth of difference" campaign shares part of the blame for giving us George W Bush. It's amazing to me that he still has defenders. Go figure.

[haikugal]

43. That's a very old, stinky lie....please proceed.

[redstateblues]

80. another Nader voter perhaps?

How can anyone defend Nader?

[haikugal]

92. I don't like people that continue to make false claim, like you. You know better, or should.

[Kittycat]

22. "Attacking from the left"

There's an interesting comment on that article from.an HRC supporter minding throwing water on attacking from the left. The summary is that it would be futile, be cause one would lose everything in doing so. I'm going to.go out on a limb, as a Bernie supporter, and say that there are likely a fair contingent of those that are young enough or have suffered enough that they don't have the risk in loss that the Third Way dems and HRC supporters have. Just a thought I will add that a good response was.raised that we can still vote in our down ticket progressive dems to hold the line. But for some, at some point threats aren't going to force people over or make them compromise their beliefs. I'm not a democrat for the "D", I chose to be one for the values, and HRC doesn't represent them to me.

[Beacool]

23. No, "The hard-bitten, corporatist Democrats are NOT moving Hillary Clinton

through the presidential primaries."

You know who is propelling Hillary forward? VOTERS, that's who. It may be a reality that some of you don't like, but more people are voting for Hillary than are voting for Sanders.

Sorry Nader, but after you stated that there wasn't much difference between Gore and Bush, your opinions on anything are irrelevant to me.

[Jarqui]

30. I think the "corporatist Democrats" are moving Hillary through

the primaries with their control of the mainstream media.

They do not control the internet - where most of the young folks hang out and get their news. therefore, the young support Sanders. But they control much of the message most other voters get through the media.

What was it? Trump 700+ minutes, Clinton 400-500+ minutes, Sanders 21+ minutes in 2015 broadcast news?

And the corporate media are sending out the corporate messages like "Sanders is not electable whereas Hillary is" when the reality of the polls shows the reverse is more likely - so many hate or mistrust Hillary.

Corporate America has their heavy thumb on the scales of the media. They will see to it their candidate is elected and that's exactly what they've been doing.

[madfloridian]

38. The local parties nationwide are mostly staffed by those loyal to Hillary...

Here in Florida Bernie's name is not mentioned in Dem circles. Nor in the media.

[Jarqui]

57. Hillary and her corporate owners own the DNC and the Democratic establishment

so I do not think that is very surprising

[SidDithers]

28. Fuck Ralph Nader...nt

Sid

[bravenak]

36. +1

[redstateblues]

42. No Iraq War without Ralph.

He helped to give us Bush/Cheney

[bravenak]

51. I refuse to give Ralph any more of my attention this lifetime after that spectacle.

[bravenak]

60. Another critic?

Why folks worry themselves over my siglines I do not know! Please...

[Half-Century Man]

29. Support the Democratic Party's candidate for President.

And try to get to Washington DC for Bernie's inauguration. That would be sweet.

[dana_b]

34. After July we will be supporting him as the Democratic nominee in the GE

all of these "Hillary is now inevitable" posts are b.s. Unless you have a crystal ball and can show us the future, many of us aren't going to play your games. She has NOT won anything and I don't believe that she will.

[RufusTFirefly]

39. Attention: If you haven't already signed your loyalty oath...

... please click here.

Thank you!



The Management

[haikugal]

44. I look forward to never having to look upon that gob ever again!

[Gwhittey]

78. You mean GOP person

nt

[haikugal]

89. No I mean her gob...old term I guess.

I was using it as face but technically it's mouth.

[noamnety]

59. DWS is to the democratic party

what Rachel Dolezal was to the NAACP.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Refuse to hold their noses for centrist neolibs as the lesser-of-two-evils.

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. Friedrich Nietzsche

[Jenny_92808]

47. What will Bernie do in July

Celebrate his win.

[Cheese Sandwich]

48. I don't know but it will probably determine the election.

[dubyadiprecession]

52. Beyond all the hype from social media, Bernie will graciously give his support to Hillary..

I don't think he will turn into a Jim Jones "our world has come to an end, it's all over, so drink the coolaid" type of guy.

[virgista]

61. Democrats in reliably blue states won't have to vote for Hillary.

If the worst should happen, and we face a Hillary ticket, Bernie supporters won't have to vote for her. If the race is tight in a very blue state, then she's lost the race anyway. This gives me some comfort, since there is absolutely no way I'd vote for a Machiavellian, corporate, war lover, privacy hater (except for herself of course), and incompetent politician like H.

I know I speak heresy. But I bet alot of you out there are thinking the same thing.

[Avalux]

62. It's time for a new party, one that truly represents progressives.

If the Democratic Party thinks Bernie supporters will fall in line and be good little Democrats if Hillary is the nominee they're wrong. The kids won't have any of it. I see Bernie's candidacy, if he doesn't win, as the continuation of OWS, and the impetus to a greater movement that will shatter the cancerous two party system we are forced to endure. It's not about Bernie, it's about what he embodies. The genie will not be put back in the bottle.

I want to vote for a candidate who represents me, and not be expected to vote for a corrupt candidate just to keep another corrupt candidate from becoming president.

[Vattel]

63. Yes, it is time for a new party. Young people would flock to it.

And they are the future. Let's leave the Democratic Party to dishonest hawks like Clinton.

[Avalux]

65. They are the future, and we need to help them make it a good one.

The Democratic Party has lurched right and looks more like the Republican party did a few decades ago. It's full of career politicians who, as far as I'm concerned, are just as bought and paid for as the Republicans. Nothing progressive will come from it; all about maintaining the status quo.

It's time for a NEW DEAL.

[oldandhappy]

64. change my registration and work down ticket

[starroute]

70. I was born a New York City Democrat -- so I've always been there

New York Democrats of my childhood had a strong leftwing bias. They were willing to support the Democratic Party as long as it adhered to New Deal principles but not otherwise.

In 1948, my father voted for Norman Thomas, although he himself was never a socialist. He told me not long before he died that he couldn't possibly have voted for Harry Truman because Truman was a machine politician. (I think my mother voted for Henry Wallace that year, but she was always more radical than my father.)

The Liberal Party was a fixture in New York City politics in the 1950s. They made up their own minds on the basis of issues and in any given campaign might endorse some Democrats, some Republicans, and run some candidates of their own. It was often possible to vote for a Democrat on the Liberal line of the ballot as a way of saying, "I prefer this candidate but want the Democratic Party to know I'm not thrilled about them as a whole." And if that wasn't good enough, there were always a scattering of fourth party candidates available for a serious protest vote.

In the late 50s, my father was active in the local Reform Democratic club, which was working against Tammany Hall and the old-line Democratic clubs.

So none of this is foreign to me. You support the Democrats when they do the right thing, kick them in the ass when they don't, and work outside the party when there's no other option. What's more, it's clear to me that this is where Bernie has to be coming from, too.

It's gotten harder over the years to bring the Democrats to heel as a result of money and other factors. Right now, we're fighting the Clinton machine -- which in its way is larger and scarier than Tammany Hall ever was. But the basic strategy hasn't changed. You follow your ideals but not in a dogmatic manner, you support any candidate or position that might move things in the right direction, and you work either inside or outside the system depending on circumstances.

[AgerolanAmerican]

74. I presume we will be

telling Hillary Clinton supporters that they have to support the nominee Bernie Sanders because party unity.

[arcane1]

76. "This is designed to panic and mute their followers."

[Baobab]

77. Voting for Hillary is a Vote for Globalization of America

End discrimination against CORPORATIONS from every continent.

beat back labor costs

End Public Education and healthcare Monopolies!

End restrictive Labor Laws and Wage Subsidies Based on Nationality

End Discrimination against Banks

Deregulate Energy and Let US Energy Prices Be Normal

Save Older Buildings from Inefficient Natural Gas Heat tear them Down

Revitalize Cities Populations

End Wage Slavery By Outsourcing Jobs!

Fnish the 1995 GATS Agreement with the Doha Development Agenda - Trade jobs for Markets

Make people Know the Value of Money, Increase Global Competition in the US Workplace by Subcontrcting Jobs to te Lowest Qualifed Bidder Internationally

Eliminate Minimum Wages with the WTO

[tymorial]

83. vote for hillary

While I hold my nose.

[Logical]

94. I'll vote for her but feel sick doing it. And not donate one cent. nt

[Beowulf]

95. There are two games going on.

The campaign, which is the short game will end in November or July. How I vote in November will depend on who is on the ballot.

The long game is the movement. If Hillary wins the nomination, my attention shifts in July full time to the long game. If Hillary wins the general election, I expect to be voicing my protest with every move she makes that violates my values and the policies I support. I expect I would be very busy.