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MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:15 AM Mar 2016

St. Paul, MN Ward 6 Precinct 12 Report

I chaired the caucus for my precinct last evening. Turnout was good, but not as high as in 2008. Bernie won in our precinct, as in Minnesota. The actual precinct count was Bernie 37 votes and Hillary 21 votes.

Despite a shortage of printed ballots, the caucus went smoothly. We fell back on the traditional method of writing your preferred candidate on a slip of paper, like we did in 2008. The ballots were counted twice to ensure accuracy by the tellers elected at the caucus.

I got there at 6:30 and left at 8:30. We actually filled our quota of delegates to the Senate District convention for the first time in my experience, which should make for an interesting convention if every precinct filled their delegate list.

Our results weren't far from the statewide results, where Bernie ended up with 62% to Hillary's 38%.

Again, I hope we switch to a primary for future presidential elections. The caucus system is outdated and more than a little chaotic. Parking was insufficient and the caucuses are complicated for people not used to them.

Congratulations to Bernie Sanders on his win in Minnesota!

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St. Paul, MN Ward 6 Precinct 12 Report (Original Post) MineralMan Mar 2016 OP
The caucus system is disenfranchising, too. If you have to work while the caucus is taking MADem Mar 2016 #1
I don't disagree with that at all. MineralMan Mar 2016 #3
Good for you for being involved! I hope you succeed in changing the system, though MADem Mar 2016 #12
The caucus system has a bunch of tradition behind it here. MineralMan Mar 2016 #32
Thanks, MineralMan, for your congrats and your willingness to chair a precinct caucus. femmedem Mar 2016 #2
I actually forgot to vote last night. MineralMan Mar 2016 #4
Ha! femmedem Mar 2016 #17
Thank you for volunteering! mcar Mar 2016 #5
Who volunteered? Actually, MineralMan Mar 2016 #6
Thanks for showing up, then! mcar Mar 2016 #7
Oh, I didn't mind. I enjoy the process, and MineralMan Mar 2016 #11
62-38. Nice contrast to the 'concern' raised days ago about you never being contacted by Sanders JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #8
The voters have spoken in MN. MineralMan Mar 2016 #10
No I know you're a democrat. JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #24
When I moved to Minnesota, I had never lived in a caucus state. MineralMan Mar 2016 #26
Wow. MADem Mar 2016 #13
David Brock told me this campaign is all about making contrasts. JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #16
Not helpful! Nobody on either side sways anyone with snark. femmedem Mar 2016 #18
Those sour grapes make a dreadful wine. nt MADem Mar 2016 #21
Take it up with Brock? n/t JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #27
343-259 Bernie in Red Wing where I live! Punkingal Mar 2016 #19
Nice! This primary is giving me a solid list of places I am willing to live. JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #22
Move to my precinct in St. Paul, then. I'll happily hand MineralMan Mar 2016 #23
Haha! We'll see -- actually being precinct chair wouldn't be a bad deal. JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #25
Being a precinct chair is highly overrated. MineralMan Mar 2016 #28
Come on! Minnesota is very progressive. Punkingal Mar 2016 #30
Thanks for your efforts MineralMan. CentralMass Mar 2016 #9
Thanks go to the people who turned out at the caucus. MineralMan Mar 2016 #35
My brother and his family live outside of Minneapolis and are Bernie supporters. CentralMass Mar 2016 #36
Can You Explain Your Comment - Despite A Shortage Of Printed Ballots....... global1 Mar 2016 #14
I can't remember any caucus where there were enough printed ballots. MineralMan Mar 2016 #20
As far as I know we had enough ballots in our precinct. Kalidurga Mar 2016 #31
My precinct has a similar turnout history. MineralMan Mar 2016 #33
We didn't have enough volunteers for the delegates we were allotted Kalidurga Mar 2016 #34
That was a huge win for Bernie. I don't think that anyone expected it. jillan Mar 2016 #15
It surprised me, frankly. MineralMan Mar 2016 #29
Great night AbbyCha Mar 2016 #37
I'm glad you attended. MineralMan Mar 2016 #39
Thank you for the gracious report. n/t. Ken Burch Mar 2016 #38
Thanks for reading! MineralMan Mar 2016 #40
Thank you for participating! And the report Arazi Mar 2016 #41

MADem

(135,425 posts)
1. The caucus system is disenfranchising, too. If you have to work while the caucus is taking
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:19 AM
Mar 2016

place, or you can't get a sitter, or you don't have someone to drive you there, and then come back to pick you up, you're hosed. It's a smaller investment in time to just vote and go home and you can do that any time of day or evening up until the polls close.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
3. I don't disagree with that at all.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:24 AM
Mar 2016

We had a fair demographic mix at our caucus, which reflected the general makeup of the precinct's population, but the numbers were small, compared even to the low turnout at a typical primary election. My favorite caucus-goer last night was an 80-something Hmong woman, there with her granddaughter to translate for her. She sat right by the front table, and I got to say Hello in Hmong to her, although that's the only thing I know in that language. She smiled broadly, and her granddaughter chuckled.

Anyhow, caucuses are fun, but are not the most representative way to get the will of the people recorded. I'll be pushing for a change to primaries during the convention cycle that follows this year.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
12. Good for you for being involved! I hope you succeed in changing the system, though
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:45 AM
Mar 2016

The caucuses--like New England Town Meetings--are fun, but they don't represent the will of the people and haven't for a long time. The whole two income family situation just makes lives too busy and crunched to make time for those kinds of things. Plus, the shift workers, etc. It's a hold-over from the days when people stopped working when the sun went down; that's not reality in America any more!

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
32. The caucus system has a bunch of tradition behind it here.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:55 AM
Mar 2016

There's plenty of opposition to a change. Eventually, we'll have primaries in MN, though. This year, there will be another proposal to change the system to vote on in the three conventions coming up. This year, it will probably fail again. Traditions die hard.

Frankly, I'd bet that a primary system would produce almost identical results, percentage-wise as the caucuses. It would, however, make it much easier for most people to participate.

We do hold a primary later in the year. In it, congressional, state legislative and all local races are handled in the typical primary style. The caucuses only operate to set the delegate proportions for presidential candidates every four years and to feed delegates to the conventions that follow. It could easily be replaced, although it would require a change in the convention schedule and method of selecting delegates. That's the real sticking point. Our series of three conventions at different levels takes quite a bit of time, so it would be difficult to have a primary early enough to make a difference here.

I'll keep trying to change the system, though, since I believe that regular elections are a better process. It's an uphill fight, though.

femmedem

(8,205 posts)
2. Thanks, MineralMan, for your congrats and your willingness to chair a precinct caucus.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:22 AM
Mar 2016

I appreciate your fairness on DU, and I'm sure you were equally fair as caucus chair. I agree that the caucus system disenfranchises a lot of people.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
4. I actually forgot to vote last night.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:27 AM
Mar 2016

I was so busy tearing sheets of paper into quarters for ballots and helping people find the correct precinct, along with managing the caucus meeting and filling out all the forms. I simply forgot to cast my own vote.

I did win the election to be caucus chair again, though. Nobody else was willing to run, I guess.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
6. Who volunteered? Actually,
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:34 AM
Mar 2016

the caucuses are usually chaired by someone from the district organization. This year, no such person showed up, so I did it, since I'm the precinct chair and am familiar with the process. I wuz railroaded into the job!

It's actually a fairly complex job, but I've been paying close attention over the years and there's a packet for each precinct that covers everything. Now that I've done it, I'll probably contact the district organization and get my name on the convener's list. They do a one-day training before each election. Lots of paperwork that has to be done after the caucus, too.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
11. Oh, I didn't mind. I enjoy the process, and
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:43 AM
Mar 2016

was ready to handle the caucus operations. I'm glad I was there, although there's another person who was there who could have stepped in and one the job just fine. He's been at every caucus I've attended, too. He was one of the tellers who counted the ballots, and is the one of the two associate chairs of the precinct.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
10. The voters have spoken in MN.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:41 AM
Mar 2016

That's the whole idea. Bernie won in my state. As I have said many, many times, I'll be campaigning for whoever the nominee is in the General Election. I can't say I wasn't surprised by the outcome here. I was surprised, but I'm not crying about it. We had our caucuses and Bernie won. Cool. The voters voted.

I suspect you think I'm someone other than who I am. I'm a Democrat. I like our process. In the end, I'll be supporting the party's nominee, as I have always done.

When it comes to our caucuses, I wish we used primaries, but I'm there to make sure the caucuses are done fairly and according to the rules. I didn't even vote last night. I was so busy that I just forgot to fill out a ballot slip.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
24. No I know you're a democrat.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:37 AM
Mar 2016

And I often appreciate and respect your posts.

We just differ enormously on what the Democratic party should be about. What many Democratic voters and DU voices (not you) are telling me is that I should be a member of a different party, like the Greens.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
26. When I moved to Minnesota, I had never lived in a caucus state.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:43 AM
Mar 2016

I'd heard about them, but had never been to one. My first was in 2006 in a mid-term election. I also attended the district convention as a delegate that year. In 2008, I ended up as the precinct chair. There was no chair, and I was willing, so...

I'd prefer a primary, frankly. I think they're more fair and allow more people to participate. Caucuses are old-fashioned and the tradition is interesting. The results? They're probably very close to what a primary would produce, but with far fewer voters. It is the system that is in place where I live, though. I'm part of a movement to switch to primaries, but tradition dies hard.

Your choice of parties is, frankly, your choice. I'm a Democrat. I've always been a Democrat. I will continue to be a Democrat. You will do as you choose, I'm certain.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
16. David Brock told me this campaign is all about making contrasts.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:02 AM
Mar 2016

I am trying to follow in his pure footsteps.

femmedem

(8,205 posts)
18. Not helpful! Nobody on either side sways anyone with snark.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:27 AM
Mar 2016

It might feel good among a certain subset of supporters, but it turns everyone else off.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
22. Nice! This primary is giving me a solid list of places I am willing to live.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:34 AM
Mar 2016

Any place that would give Hillary a landslide is not a place for a liberal to choose to reside.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
23. Move to my precinct in St. Paul, then. I'll happily hand
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:36 AM
Mar 2016

over the precinct chair to you. I do it because nobody else seems to want to, and because I want to make sure the caucus in my precinct is done fairly and properly.

I'm sure you'd do a great job at it. So, let me know when you move in and you can have the job.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
25. Haha! We'll see -- actually being precinct chair wouldn't be a bad deal.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:40 AM
Mar 2016

Problem is I am still in grad school; but when I graduate in a few years Minneapolis / St. Paul is on my shortlist. I hear there are a number of science / tech jobs in the area. And some universities to teach at if I go that route.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
28. Being a precinct chair is highly overrated.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:46 AM
Mar 2016

There's really nothing to do, except for the caucuses. I do maintain a small website for our precinct. As far as I know, it's the only precinct website in the state. You can click the link in my signature line to see it. I just added the caucus report to the site.

The Twin Cities offer some great opportunities and it is a diverse, interesting place to live. Lots of universities here, both in Minneapolis and St. Paul, and a thriving economy with a low unemployment rate.

Then again, we have Winter here. (Emphasis mine)

CentralMass

(15,265 posts)
36. My brother and his family live outside of Minneapolis and are Bernie supporters.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:00 PM
Mar 2016

He called me after they called the race.

global1

(25,263 posts)
14. Can You Explain Your Comment - Despite A Shortage Of Printed Ballots.......
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:02 AM
Mar 2016

You indicated that the actual precinct count was 37 to 21 Bernie over Hillary. That is a total of 58 votes.

Do you mean to tell me that with only a total of 58 votes - there was a shortage of printed ballots?

What am I missing here? Surely - whomever supplies printed ballots for the precinct's would have provided more than 58 ballots.

Incidently - my friend's son and his wife participated in their caucus. This was a first time experience for them. They brought Bernie home a winner. They indicated that they were proud to participate in the process.

Thanks for your description as to what they were to encounter at a MN caucus yesterday. They went in with much less anxiety because of that.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
20. I can't remember any caucus where there were enough printed ballots.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:32 AM
Mar 2016

It's a perpetual joke. In the packet for our precinct, there were just 12 printed ballots. The fallback has always been to tear regular paper into four squares and have the attendees write their preferred candidate's name, then fold the paper and put it in the envelope we have for collecting ballots. I brought paper to the caucus, along with a box of ballpoint pens, in preparation for the lack of ballots and pens. It's all a volunteer operation.

Nobody really minds. Everyone votes. The votes get counted and the count double-checked. It's funny, but there are never enough ballots. We have over 4000 precincts in Minnesota, and I'm betting not one of them had enough printed ballots. Our caucuses for Ward 5 and 6 were held in a local high school. All told, there were about 30 precinct caucuses held in the classrooms at that schoo. No copiers available, since they're all in the school offices. Using blank paper for balloting is a normal thing at these caucus meetings. It changes nothing about the voting.

I'm glad your friends participated in their caucus. They are old-fashioned and a bit disorganized, but in the end everyone who attends gets to make their vote count. That's what matters.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
31. As far as I know we had enough ballots in our precinct.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:54 AM
Mar 2016

But, I can see how a precinct can run out of ballots quite easily. Turn out might have been down in your area, but in mine it was much much higher than usual. The captain said there were 7 in his group of caucus goers 4 years ago. This year there were almost 300. The majority of that number cast a ballot and left. There were about 45 of us who stayed to vote on what issues to kick back up to the level of voting.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
33. My precinct has a similar turnout history.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:10 PM
Mar 2016

The numbers are smaller, though. It's a blue-collar neighborhood of single-family homes. No businesses, just residential. We turn out very well for elections, but our caucuses are always small 2008 and 2016 were exceptions. Nobody cares about printed ballots, though. They're good with writing their choice on a slip of paper.

Our caucus meetings are friendly and peaceful. This year was no exception. Everything is done right in the open, and there were even a few people standing and watching our two election tellers count the ballots. There's not even a set system for counting ballots. Since I was the caucus chair, I announced that they would be counted by making piles of ballots for each candidate, which would then be counted by both tellers. The counts had to agree. I said, "That's how we did it in my grammar school elections." Everyone laughed. Everyone agreed to the method.

Lots of laughter is always the norm at these things. We elect precinct officers. Typically, whoever volunteers to be the chair or vice-chairs are elected by acclamation. There's a formal call for nominations but, as usual, I had to wheedle a couple of people into running for vice-chair. There are no duties at all. It's ceremonial, except during the actual caucus meetings.

We elect delegates to the first-level conventions. Again, that's done by asking who wants to be a delegate. If there are no more volunteers than the number of seats available, that's it. Acclamation again. This year, we managed to fill all 12 delegate seats, but I had to convince a couple of people to be delegates to fill the list. I told the people left after the candidate voting what happens at the convention and that it was an interesting thing to do. We got all 12! Amazing. Usually, we end up with five or six.

Caucuses can be fairly casual or they can be very crowded, requiring a more formal "Roberts Rules of Order" process. I could handle running either, but ours is always informal in its operation, by general consent. It's a neighborhood thing, and always friendly and enjoyable. The only thing that would be better would be refreshments. Next Caucus, I'm going to buy a few dozen donuts or something to share with the group. What the heck...

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
34. We didn't have enough volunteers for the delegates we were allotted
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:21 PM
Mar 2016

My plan was to go as an alternate. But, since there weren't even enough that were going as delegates I decided I would go as a delegate. I was really looking forward to just going to as an alternate and chilling for the day, but I guess that's life sometimes you have to step up if no one else is able or wants to.

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