2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSt. Paul, MN Ward 6 Precinct 12 Report
I chaired the caucus for my precinct last evening. Turnout was good, but not as high as in 2008. Bernie won in our precinct, as in Minnesota. The actual precinct count was Bernie 37 votes and Hillary 21 votes.
Despite a shortage of printed ballots, the caucus went smoothly. We fell back on the traditional method of writing your preferred candidate on a slip of paper, like we did in 2008. The ballots were counted twice to ensure accuracy by the tellers elected at the caucus.
I got there at 6:30 and left at 8:30. We actually filled our quota of delegates to the Senate District convention for the first time in my experience, which should make for an interesting convention if every precinct filled their delegate list.
Our results weren't far from the statewide results, where Bernie ended up with 62% to Hillary's 38%.
Again, I hope we switch to a primary for future presidential elections. The caucus system is outdated and more than a little chaotic. Parking was insufficient and the caucuses are complicated for people not used to them.
Congratulations to Bernie Sanders on his win in Minnesota!
MADem
(135,425 posts)place, or you can't get a sitter, or you don't have someone to drive you there, and then come back to pick you up, you're hosed. It's a smaller investment in time to just vote and go home and you can do that any time of day or evening up until the polls close.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)We had a fair demographic mix at our caucus, which reflected the general makeup of the precinct's population, but the numbers were small, compared even to the low turnout at a typical primary election. My favorite caucus-goer last night was an 80-something Hmong woman, there with her granddaughter to translate for her. She sat right by the front table, and I got to say Hello in Hmong to her, although that's the only thing I know in that language. She smiled broadly, and her granddaughter chuckled.
Anyhow, caucuses are fun, but are not the most representative way to get the will of the people recorded. I'll be pushing for a change to primaries during the convention cycle that follows this year.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The caucuses--like New England Town Meetings--are fun, but they don't represent the will of the people and haven't for a long time. The whole two income family situation just makes lives too busy and crunched to make time for those kinds of things. Plus, the shift workers, etc. It's a hold-over from the days when people stopped working when the sun went down; that's not reality in America any more!
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)There's plenty of opposition to a change. Eventually, we'll have primaries in MN, though. This year, there will be another proposal to change the system to vote on in the three conventions coming up. This year, it will probably fail again. Traditions die hard.
Frankly, I'd bet that a primary system would produce almost identical results, percentage-wise as the caucuses. It would, however, make it much easier for most people to participate.
We do hold a primary later in the year. In it, congressional, state legislative and all local races are handled in the typical primary style. The caucuses only operate to set the delegate proportions for presidential candidates every four years and to feed delegates to the conventions that follow. It could easily be replaced, although it would require a change in the convention schedule and method of selecting delegates. That's the real sticking point. Our series of three conventions at different levels takes quite a bit of time, so it would be difficult to have a primary early enough to make a difference here.
I'll keep trying to change the system, though, since I believe that regular elections are a better process. It's an uphill fight, though.
femmedem
(8,205 posts)I appreciate your fairness on DU, and I'm sure you were equally fair as caucus chair. I agree that the caucus system disenfranchises a lot of people.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)I was so busy tearing sheets of paper into quarters for ballots and helping people find the correct precinct, along with managing the caucus meeting and filling out all the forms. I simply forgot to cast my own vote.
I did win the election to be caucus chair again, though. Nobody else was willing to run, I guess.
That's hilarious. I can see how that could happen, though!
mcar
(42,371 posts)MineralMan
(146,325 posts)the caucuses are usually chaired by someone from the district organization. This year, no such person showed up, so I did it, since I'm the precinct chair and am familiar with the process. I wuz railroaded into the job!
It's actually a fairly complex job, but I've been paying close attention over the years and there's a packet for each precinct that covers everything. Now that I've done it, I'll probably contact the district organization and get my name on the convener's list. They do a one-day training before each election. Lots of paperwork that has to be done after the caucus, too.
mcar
(42,371 posts)MineralMan
(146,325 posts)was ready to handle the caucus operations. I'm glad I was there, although there's another person who was there who could have stepped in and one the job just fine. He's been at every caucus I've attended, too. He was one of the tellers who counted the ballots, and is the one of the two associate chairs of the precinct.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)MineralMan
(146,325 posts)That's the whole idea. Bernie won in my state. As I have said many, many times, I'll be campaigning for whoever the nominee is in the General Election. I can't say I wasn't surprised by the outcome here. I was surprised, but I'm not crying about it. We had our caucuses and Bernie won. Cool. The voters voted.
I suspect you think I'm someone other than who I am. I'm a Democrat. I like our process. In the end, I'll be supporting the party's nominee, as I have always done.
When it comes to our caucuses, I wish we used primaries, but I'm there to make sure the caucuses are done fairly and according to the rules. I didn't even vote last night. I was so busy that I just forgot to fill out a ballot slip.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)And I often appreciate and respect your posts.
We just differ enormously on what the Democratic party should be about. What many Democratic voters and DU voices (not you) are telling me is that I should be a member of a different party, like the Greens.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)I'd heard about them, but had never been to one. My first was in 2006 in a mid-term election. I also attended the district convention as a delegate that year. In 2008, I ended up as the precinct chair. There was no chair, and I was willing, so...
I'd prefer a primary, frankly. I think they're more fair and allow more people to participate. Caucuses are old-fashioned and the tradition is interesting. The results? They're probably very close to what a primary would produce, but with far fewer voters. It is the system that is in place where I live, though. I'm part of a movement to switch to primaries, but tradition dies hard.
Your choice of parties is, frankly, your choice. I'm a Democrat. I've always been a Democrat. I will continue to be a Democrat. You will do as you choose, I'm certain.
That was ugly.
Uncalled for, too.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)I am trying to follow in his pure footsteps.
femmedem
(8,205 posts)It might feel good among a certain subset of supporters, but it turns everyone else off.
MADem
(135,425 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)It was exciting!
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Any place that would give Hillary a landslide is not a place for a liberal to choose to reside.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)over the precinct chair to you. I do it because nobody else seems to want to, and because I want to make sure the caucus in my precinct is done fairly and properly.
I'm sure you'd do a great job at it. So, let me know when you move in and you can have the job.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Problem is I am still in grad school; but when I graduate in a few years Minneapolis / St. Paul is on my shortlist. I hear there are a number of science / tech jobs in the area. And some universities to teach at if I go that route.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)There's really nothing to do, except for the caucuses. I do maintain a small website for our precinct. As far as I know, it's the only precinct website in the state. You can click the link in my signature line to see it. I just added the caucus report to the site.
The Twin Cities offer some great opportunities and it is a diverse, interesting place to live. Lots of universities here, both in Minneapolis and St. Paul, and a thriving economy with a low unemployment rate.
Then again, we have Winter here. (Emphasis mine)
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)MineralMan
(146,325 posts)I just helped them vote as they chose.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)He called me after they called the race.
global1
(25,263 posts)You indicated that the actual precinct count was 37 to 21 Bernie over Hillary. That is a total of 58 votes.
Do you mean to tell me that with only a total of 58 votes - there was a shortage of printed ballots?
What am I missing here? Surely - whomever supplies printed ballots for the precinct's would have provided more than 58 ballots.
Incidently - my friend's son and his wife participated in their caucus. This was a first time experience for them. They brought Bernie home a winner. They indicated that they were proud to participate in the process.
Thanks for your description as to what they were to encounter at a MN caucus yesterday. They went in with much less anxiety because of that.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)It's a perpetual joke. In the packet for our precinct, there were just 12 printed ballots. The fallback has always been to tear regular paper into four squares and have the attendees write their preferred candidate's name, then fold the paper and put it in the envelope we have for collecting ballots. I brought paper to the caucus, along with a box of ballpoint pens, in preparation for the lack of ballots and pens. It's all a volunteer operation.
Nobody really minds. Everyone votes. The votes get counted and the count double-checked. It's funny, but there are never enough ballots. We have over 4000 precincts in Minnesota, and I'm betting not one of them had enough printed ballots. Our caucuses for Ward 5 and 6 were held in a local high school. All told, there were about 30 precinct caucuses held in the classrooms at that schoo. No copiers available, since they're all in the school offices. Using blank paper for balloting is a normal thing at these caucus meetings. It changes nothing about the voting.
I'm glad your friends participated in their caucus. They are old-fashioned and a bit disorganized, but in the end everyone who attends gets to make their vote count. That's what matters.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)But, I can see how a precinct can run out of ballots quite easily. Turn out might have been down in your area, but in mine it was much much higher than usual. The captain said there were 7 in his group of caucus goers 4 years ago. This year there were almost 300. The majority of that number cast a ballot and left. There were about 45 of us who stayed to vote on what issues to kick back up to the level of voting.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)The numbers are smaller, though. It's a blue-collar neighborhood of single-family homes. No businesses, just residential. We turn out very well for elections, but our caucuses are always small 2008 and 2016 were exceptions. Nobody cares about printed ballots, though. They're good with writing their choice on a slip of paper.
Our caucus meetings are friendly and peaceful. This year was no exception. Everything is done right in the open, and there were even a few people standing and watching our two election tellers count the ballots. There's not even a set system for counting ballots. Since I was the caucus chair, I announced that they would be counted by making piles of ballots for each candidate, which would then be counted by both tellers. The counts had to agree. I said, "That's how we did it in my grammar school elections." Everyone laughed. Everyone agreed to the method.
Lots of laughter is always the norm at these things. We elect precinct officers. Typically, whoever volunteers to be the chair or vice-chairs are elected by acclamation. There's a formal call for nominations but, as usual, I had to wheedle a couple of people into running for vice-chair. There are no duties at all. It's ceremonial, except during the actual caucus meetings.
We elect delegates to the first-level conventions. Again, that's done by asking who wants to be a delegate. If there are no more volunteers than the number of seats available, that's it. Acclamation again. This year, we managed to fill all 12 delegate seats, but I had to convince a couple of people to be delegates to fill the list. I told the people left after the candidate voting what happens at the convention and that it was an interesting thing to do. We got all 12! Amazing. Usually, we end up with five or six.
Caucuses can be fairly casual or they can be very crowded, requiring a more formal "Roberts Rules of Order" process. I could handle running either, but ours is always informal in its operation, by general consent. It's a neighborhood thing, and always friendly and enjoyable. The only thing that would be better would be refreshments. Next Caucus, I'm going to buy a few dozen donuts or something to share with the group. What the heck...
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)My plan was to go as an alternate. But, since there weren't even enough that were going as delegates I decided I would go as a delegate. I was really looking forward to just going to as an alternate and chilling for the day, but I guess that's life sometimes you have to step up if no one else is able or wants to.
jillan
(39,451 posts)MineralMan
(146,325 posts)Life's full of surprises, though.
AbbyCha
(1 post)That was my first caucus and it was a great experience. I'm happy I was there.
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)It's important.