2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumall attempts to bring down or demoralize bernie supporters will FAIL
Last edited Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)
bernie won unexpectedly BIG in Minnesota and colorado, and basically shut hillary out in vermont. he won well in oklahoma, and the difference in MA is 20,000 votes and 2 delegates in a state hillary won big in 2008. and that is despite bill clinton breaking campaign law and disrupting a polling place for several hours, disenfranchising who knows how many voters.
bernie raised a record setting 41 million dollars in feb (42 actually,thanks autumn! ) including 6 million in a single day. hillarys best states are behind her, while bernies are ahead.
he has the money, the message, and the mojo.
celebrate hillarys wins if you like, but all goalpost moving and fatalism will fail miserably, so you might just save your typing energy for other matters, if you wish.
have a bernie day!
LexVegas
(6,091 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Their whole goal... disenfranchise, disenfranchise, disenfranchise... it's not going to work.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)In the usual snotty, nose in the air, smug way.
So endearing.
Bangbangdem
(140 posts)Rockyj
(538 posts)I needed that!
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)It will just make our job easier
erlewyne
(1,115 posts)It's going to be a beautiful day!
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Not very sporting.
debunction.junction
(127 posts)and wasn't trying to convince Hillary supporters of anything, which would be a wasted exercise anyway.
What was the purpose of your post? No facts were given, no contradiction was pointed out, nothing was added to the conversation. Just another argumentative statement.
If you want to debate the issues, fine, but snide remarks have no place here.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)We'll be just fine! Bernie's powerhouse states are coming!
HoosierRadical
(390 posts)it seems you are the one in trouble. Your candidate had her last hurrah last night, now that the southern states are out of the way, the party can now move forward with Bernie.
LexVegas
(6,091 posts)Response to LexVegas (Reply #34)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #43)
fun n serious This message was self-deleted by its author.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Congratulations, you are a genius!
Bangbangdem
(140 posts)Classic
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)NJCher
(35,713 posts)Or to put it another way:
The rest of us will now be assuming a healthy course of action.
Cher
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)Another $27 for Bernie today.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)bjobotts
(9,141 posts)not the candidate we stand for.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Just yesterday they were all saying he would only win VT and would lose big in MA. Didn't happen that way. The worse is behind him. Let them keep underestimating him. They've been doing that all along and still raking in the $$.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)It's going to be a long campaign
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)It's so transparent that we see right through it.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)when they try to make the same talking points there that they try to make here. Savaged. Her and her supporters have absolutely no idea what this is all about. They still think it's a horserace. They're so blinded by partisan politics they don't see that the peasants are sharpening their pitchforks and readying the torches.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Resentment is not just brewing against the politics of the élite, but against the way it reponds to the 99 % 's concerns: condescending, lying, conniving. And they believe that they are doing a good job at it! Total disconnection from reality.
Awknid
(381 posts)They think its good policy to be rude & dismissive.
yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)I really hope that those who aren't as up on politics do too. I have a slight fear that some who would support Bernie will fall for the MSM/Clinton message that she is the inevitable one and that they will either not vote or vote for her because they think that it's done.
I have a tendency to be a bit of a pessimist though so take my concerns with yhat pinch of salt. 😉
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)But however much will be achieved by Sanders, we can be certain that it will be lasting achievement. Even if Sanders were to miss the nomination, the Democratic Left wing will never be dormant again, and Third Way will have to fight us every step of the way. They will have to win every day. We will only have to win once.
Logical
(22,457 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)Those additional states. They know we're not going for it and they no longer feel magnanimous. They are just like their candidate.
Qutzupalotl
(14,322 posts)but since it apparently has to be one or the other ... I'll take the victories.
Onward to the blue states!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Onward to victories!
Logical
(22,457 posts)HoosierRadical
(390 posts)I wonder how they are going to react when Bernie clinches the nomination? To be honest, I think HRC's so-called firewall aka AA voters (my people) will get behind Bernie so fast, most will pretend they were always supporting him.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)I sat on a jury yesterday wherein a DUer (whose post got hidden 5-2) asserted that
"Bernie Sanders' insult directed at black voters in the South did not go down well, and his supporters have been most despicable and racist!"
(Just in case, please note that I am quoting herein above.)
What I want to know is what insult did Bernie direct at Black voters? I have tried to find it, but I don't know what search term will bring it up (I used my exact question in a search and turned up nothing). I am truly puzzled by this.
Also, I have not seen evidence that "...his supporters have been most despicable and racist!" I'm wondering if that 'blanket condemnation' of Bernie's supporters is the reason the post got hidden.
I've seen Bernie's record on civil rights. I have seen how Bernie has been responsive to the issues raised about racism during his campaign. I have to wonder why some of our Black brethren are asserting that Bernie (and his supporters) are racist.
Furthermore, I have to wonder why Hi11ary is not getting the same level of scrutiny from Black voters. I wonder why Hi11ary is not accused of racism, especially after she was grossly insensitive to the younglings who paid $500 to attend an event wherein they protested and were forcibly removed. I wonder how she gets a pass on calling our Black younglings "super predators."
I hope you will respond to my inquiries, because I am hopeful we can put these charges to rest, and encourage our Black brethren to support Senator Sanders.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)They pretend that "not campaiging in the south" = ignoring African-Americans.
Darb
(2,807 posts)And look into it.
Logical
(22,457 posts)KPN
(15,649 posts)it's that authoritarian mindset. Perhaps they should just stay in the Hillary room where their foibles aren't so apparent.
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)But, especially now.
bjobotts
(9,141 posts)casperthegm
(643 posts)I can't speak for anyone else, but as a Bernie supporter I plan to redouble my efforts, continue to donate to his campaign, spread his message of honesty and integrity, and call out smears when they are thrown his way. To steal a phrase from John Paul Jones, "I've not yet begun to fight."
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)because the calendar favors him going forward. they know that and are going to keep pushing the inevitability bs.
thankfully, most are ignoring it.
senz
(11,945 posts)eventually truth will come out, so time is most definitely not on their side.
Money, power, connections, corporate media, dirty tricks -- they have quite a treasure trove.
But truth is not with them. They fear it.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)FailureToCommunicate
(14,020 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)--how they handle it will be critical.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)It is about us and The Movement.
Even if Hillary gets crowned Queen of the 1%, The Movement won't go away.
We WILL win in the end.
.
.
.
I would like to thank everyone who supported OWS, though the movement for Equal Protection, Equal Opportunity, and Equal Access existed long before OWS and Bernie. It is inspiring to see so many waking up. I am especially proud of the Millennials.
George II
(67,782 posts)....and they haven't changed. I don't know what "goalposts" have been moved. To most the "goalposts" are where they were originally set many months ago.
And I see you glossed right over the states of Virginia (225,000), Georgia (325,000) Alabama (235,000) Arkansas (85,000) and Texas (450,000).
In fact, in the four states that Sanders won last night, his combined margin was only about 175,000 votes, smaller than each of four of those states.
obamanut2012
(26,111 posts)And the Midwest.
Also, people need to read up on the great Reverse Migration back into the South, and what that means, including how that's made VA blue, FL, and NC deep purple/lite blue.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)Everyone here is pretty much set in their choice anyway.
liberal N proud
(60,339 posts)Just facing reality would be good though!
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)favorable to bernie, record setting fundraising, blowout favorables, and a kick ass message, not to mention stompin all gop hopefuls in every poll for a ge
reality looking good to me...
malthaussen
(17,216 posts)Mr Sanders continues to erode support for Mrs Clinton, but not to the point of actually overtaking her. A matter of time? Meanwhile, Clinton supporters point to her wins and ignore the point that those wins are typically by a much smaller margin than expected.
-- Mal
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)and that's still the bottom line
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Because from where I sit, here in Central California in which Latinos/as ARE the numeric majority, they do not like Hillary and I'm being kind. We've been tabling at Spanish-language events and the response is overwhelmingly ANTI Hillary.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I can only speak for my state (VA)...
But depending how the breaks fall, Cali could certainly be in play for Sanders...
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)are being sociable. Some stats last night were that Hillary ran away with the Hispanic vote. She's done the best by far with POC, hands down. Bernie literally has only won white males (this was all over the news last night and this morning).
Analysts last night and this morning have all said that Bernie has yet to show that he can win a state that reflects the Democratic party.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)I don't speak Spanish so I'm not at the Spanish-language events.
So, there's that.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)working voters.
DinahMoeHum
(21,806 posts). . .in the primary calendar.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/primary-calendar-and-results.html
Just sayin'.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)any delegate gains he made by winning OK, MN and CO were more than wiped out by the proportional delegates awarded in TX, GA and VA.
Bernie may have won a few battles yesterday, but he fell further behind in the war.
Sid
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Let's see what happens in the coming week in (I think) Kansas, Louisiana, Nebraska, Maine, Michigan and Mississippi.
ETA: Puerto Rico has moved the Dems to June 5.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)From his supporters after SC, I have to say I think you are wrong. Though I have no interest in making them feel demoralized. They have a lot of enthusiasm but little depth in numbers. I want to keep that enthusiasm around.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)but with the money he is raising and all the votes yet to be cast, i personally think its way too early for anyone to pack it in.
at least on this side.....rubio and carson, well....
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Clinton as having the upper hand. I love her fifty state strategy and it's clear she is in this for every vote. I won't be content until the convention and I don't expect you to be either.
That doesn't mean I shouldn't point out the fact that over one and a quarter million more people showed up for Clinton yesterday.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)are the ones showing the huge gop turnout compared to dems. that just can't be a good sign for a ge.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Faux pas
(14,690 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)tymorial
(3,433 posts)They eventually voted for Romney. I'm not comparing Sanders supporters to Paul supporters... I feel that when it comes to crunch time, people will always vote to keep the opposition out.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)mountain grammy
(26,644 posts)Chuck Toad decided he should call Hillary, "the presumptive nominee."
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)sarge43
(28,942 posts)They can be replaced.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)Orrex
(63,220 posts)But it does seek to reframe a national election as a personal attack on Sanders' supporters, which I find curious.
Zorro
(15,749 posts)Same mindset.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)All the primaries going forward award delegates proportionally. There are no winner take all states. Bernie is approaching the point of being mathematically eliminated from closing the delegate gap in a proportional primary future.
As Bernie is pushed to the edge of the delegate cliff, the t.v. cameras will go away, The less invested Bernie supporters will turn to the winning candidate and the money will start to ebb. It will be a slow drip drip drip.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Bernie has to make up his delegate deficit in a proportional primary environment. It's not dissimilar to catching up to a car that's significantly ahead of you on the highway. The car ahead of you is not going to suddenly slam on the brakes and stop. That means you can't match that car's speed or you'll never catch up. Therefore, the trailing car must travel at a significantly higher speed in order to close the deficit. Bernie lost both the black and Hispanic vote badly yesterday. Being able to outpace Hillary enough to overtake her is mathematically unlikely.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)3% in the polls to now beating her in every head to head matchup in the ge and ahead in some national polls.
outraising her and setting fundraising records.
anyone who can accomplish what he has already accomplish is not to be underestimated.
but if it makes ya happy, go right on
NJCher
(35,713 posts)I'll bet many could contribute other examples!
Cher
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)NJCher
(35,713 posts)I thought of another number.
Cher
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Her wins were far less extensive than she hyped us all to believe, and Sanders had a few surprise showings. Her margin will fall from here on out, and regardless of the snarky "I got mine, Hillary!" crowd, ethical and informed voters know that Sanders is the best choice for a primary vote.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Bernie's mathematical path to the nomination hangs by a thread. No matter the excuses or positive "spin" that anyone tries to give to actual losses ... the REALITY is that Bernie will not be the nominee.
Go, Hillary! We love you!
Duval
(4,280 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)NJCher
(35,713 posts)When I arrived at school today (in NJ), students were in a circle outside the school chanting, "Bernie! Bernie! Bernie!"
Cher
me b zola
(19,053 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)The establishment is pushing to get him to quit because they know he'll trash Hillary in most other states.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)so about 6000 difference between Berne + Other vs Hillary who was OTHER in mass??
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Yallow
(1,926 posts)I don't know.
Maybe I am not supposed to talk about that......
Mishandling of sensitive information.
You know, the crime.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)if any legal issues arise, the don't want him at convention. they want to plug in their puppet.
too bad so sad not gonna happen.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)If the "negative Nellys" haven't figures it out by now, anonymous posters on a messageboard have zero effect on our support for Bernie or our morale.
I think that $41 million speaks directly to how insignificant the "negative Nelly" factor is.
I am excited. I'll be donating today!
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)ConsiderThis_2016
(274 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)...on allegedly-level playing fields.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)TBF
(32,085 posts)better states with more delegates coming up!! Thank you Vermont, Oklahoma, Colorado, Minnesota & Massachusetts (so close and noting Bill Clinton shenanigans)!
No way are we dropping out now.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)GoldenThunder
(300 posts)We're going the distance.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)Ignore the brockshit.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Common wisdom is so last century: it's just another elitist echo-chamber these days.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Bernie wins by big margins against EVERY ONE of the GOP candidates, whereas Hillary does NOT, and those she is higher than it is within the margin of error.
AND . . . voters don't like her and don't trust her. . not me saying this but VOTERS, whereas Bernie has the highest approval and trustworthiness seen.
Guess that means nothing either.
Fact upon fact upon fact, but they turn away and deflect.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)OkSustainAg
(203 posts)The ideas being brought up by Bernie doesn't stop with this election. The idea of Democratic candidates acting like republicans will be attacked in EVERY election and on EVERY issue.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)stop over at fr. they are using terms like "donor class" oligarchy, and uniparty
if you didn't know where you were, it could be confused with the bernie group.
thats how full circle we have come. freepers channeling bernie.
randome
(34,845 posts)My dream of going to the 4th grade prom? It's dead along with all the other dreams! Ha-ha-ha-ha!
(Crap. Did I say that out loud?)
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)brooklynite
(94,703 posts)We're just planning to not vote for him. Seems to be working so far.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)i am talking about the endless stream of threads, talking heads, blog articles,m$m pieces, trying to discourage bernie supporters into thinking he has no chance and should just drop out now. i actually heard kasey hunt use the word "defiant" to describe him, like he has no right to be in this race.
vote for who you like. but your colleagues and du buddies are doing their best to demoralize Bernie supporters, and all they are accomplishing is strengthening our resolve that either he will win or that no way in hell are we going to support hillary in nov.
neither is good for your candidate.
brooklynite
(94,703 posts)Nobody complains the the endless threads saying Clinton can't win the GE is intended to discourage Clinton supporters; we just challenge their validity. Discussion of the prospects of candidates in an election is something the media has covered for decades. If you don't believe what they're saying, then what they're saying won't matter. I think the problem is you can see reality and you don't like it.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)individuals can have whatever opinions they like, but news media is supposed to report news, not try and create it. and that is what they are doing.
please explain how a reporter covering the sanders campaign and referring to him as "defiant" is not blatant bias?
cui bono
(19,926 posts).
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Babel_17
(5,400 posts)We're ready to rumble.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)in a way, its almost a relief to see the masks torn off. they are proud of who they are.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)We'll be choosing between two different candidates, and approaches.
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)I agree with you about the mainstream media and coverage of the revolution. However, Steven Rosenfeld writes for AlterNet and has the same opinion about Bernie's road to the nomination:
http://www.alternet.org/trump-continues-steamroll-gop-while-bernie-disrupts-night-hillary-was-supposed-lock-nomination
Your thoughts?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)certainly not easy, but with much of the country left to vote, he needs a couple of good wins and the wind at his back
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)so i could not comment on it in detail. i will try again later to look at it again.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)warrprayer
(4,734 posts)Here in D.U. land!
Feel the Bern yet?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Milliesmom
(493 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)cleopotrick
(79 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)cleopotrick
(79 posts)just need to re-center my chi for a moment and focus on tiger love.
breathe.
there.
back to having a bernie day!
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Karma13612
(4,554 posts)with a nation-wide ad that assures future states that their voices will be heard.
I know some saw his speech last night, but I think we can agree that whole pockets of people are not hearing about Bernie because the MSM is doing a great cover job.
How about an ad that hammers home the assurance that
"Bernie is coming to your state so make sure you are ready to vote or caucus"
Relax, we are going to make sure your voice is heard in this election cycle.
etc
etc.
I knew he wasn't giving up, but when he assured us of this last night, it actually helped me with my worries that Hillary was going to just end the whole thing.
Sanders Campaign, give it some thought!
K??
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Bleacher Creature
(11,257 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)k/r
INdemo
(6,994 posts)because she was not prepared nor was Debbie prepared for Hillary to be challenged this far along in the campaign...Surprise Surprise Hillary
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)Onwards ! Keep our eyes on the prize .
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)granting immunity to the guy that set up her private email server, tsk, tsk, she may be suspending her campaign after they haul her in for questioning.... Go Bernie...
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)in order to move up the chain....
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Bernie has and it's only increasing as more people begin to pay attention to the election.
AAs, Latinos, Women are deserting Hillary and signing on with Bernie and that will only continue as the campaign goes on
Hillary and Trump won the Confederate states with very little turnout. Bernie won BIG in the Progressive states.
But it's interesting how NASTY and Right Wing like the attacks on Sen Sanders are coming from Democrats. I expect that from Republicans.
Otoh, it's not surprising, same thing happened to Obama in 2008. She lost then and will again.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)its 2008 redux. and they know bernies worse states are behind him. it only gets better from here for him.
i really believe there is no more d vs r, at least at the top. its the power brokers vs the people. if you really want a mind blowing experience, they are saying the same thing at fr. they are seething at the idea that gopE insiders are trying to steal the nom from trump or are even gonna vote hillary against him.
they are using words like uniparty, oligarchy, donor class. its like bernie group over there! (well not completely.....)
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)Livluvgrow
(377 posts)Me so much that I just quit the democratic party after 24 years. Kinda freeing. Makew me think of the stones song. i am free to do what I want any old time.
King_Klonopin
(1,306 posts)What specific positions do they refute or disavow ?
What has he said that they disagree with ?
What specific positions go against their ideology, which, I assume, to be "progressive" ?
What is it that they don't like about him as a person ?
Instead, this is what I see or read into the arguments, pro and con:
Support Hillary because she is Hillary
She's earned it. She has a long resume. It's her turn. She is winning.
We should vote for the front-runner because she is the front-runner.
Support Hillary because Bernie has no chance of winning the general election.
Simple cynicism to say the least, and NOT ACTUALLY SUPPORTED by the data of polls.
Don't support Bernie because his proposals are purely an unattainable fantasy.
A cynical, shameful, defeatist capitulation to the status quo. His positions, which are
the truer reflection of the principles of progressive dems, are dismissed as ideological --
A Left-Wing Tea Party candidacy, according to Bill Clinton -- shameful sell-outs !!!!
Don't support Bernie because he is not trusted by minorities or women
A dishonest accusation, to say the least. A total fiction, created by the surrogates
of HRC camp. In regards to protecting women rights, minorities rights, the middle-class,
and the under-class, Bernie's resume is more impressive to me and I trust him more.
I am beginning to loathe "moderate, centrist democrats." The United States needs MORE
people like Bernie and Elizabeth Warren.