The Wacky World of Mormonism

[CthulhusEvilCousin]

Mormons on the Surface of the Moon and Sun

"Nearly all the great discoveries of men in the last half century have, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a Prophet.

"As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do -- that they live generally to near the age of 1000 years.

"He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style.

"In my Patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet, in Kirtland, 1837, I was told that I should preach the gospel before I was 21 years of age; that I should preach the gospel to the inhabitants upon the islands of the sea, and to the inhabitants of the moon, even the planet you can now behold with your eyes." (The Young Woman's Journal, published by the Young Ladies' Mutual Improvement Associations of Zion, 1892, vol. 3, pp. 263-64)


"Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? When we view its face we may see what is termed “the man in the moon,” and what some philosophers declare are the shadows of mountains. But these sayings are very vague, and amount to nothing; and when you inquire about the
inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized." (Brigham Young, Second Prophet of the LDS, Journal of Discourses Vol. 13, pp. 271)

Mormonism, the Curse of "Blackness" and its Cure

"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, and they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
(2 Nephi 5:21)

"You may inquire of the intelligent of the world whether they can tell why the aborigines of this country are dark, loathsome, ignorant, and sunken into the depths of degradation ...When the Lord has a people, he makes covenants with them and gives unto them promises: then, if they transgress his law, change his ordinances, and break his covenants he has made with them, he will put a mark upon them, as in the case of the Lamanites and other portions of the house of Israel; but by-and-by they will become a white and delightsome people" (Journal of Discourses 7:336).

"The [Indian] children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation" ... ""These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.&quot Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-3).

"I feel to bless this people, and they are a God-blessed people. Look at them, and see the difference from their condition a few years ago! Brethren who have been on missions, can you see any difference in this people from the time you went away until your return? [Voices: “Yes.“] You can see men and women who are sixty or seventy years of age looking young and handsome; but let them apostatize, and they will become grayhaired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil." (Brigham Young, Second Prophet of the LDS, Journal of Discourses Vol. 5 p. 332)

"Those who were less valiant in pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God and his murder of Abel being a black skin...The present status of the negro rests purely and simply on the foundation of pre-existence" (Bruce McConkie, LDS Apostle, Mormon Doctrine, p.527, 1966 ed.)

Mormonism and Intermarriage, from http://rfmorg.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/lds-church-officially-opposes-mixed-race-marriages/

"The LDS Church Officially Opposes the Race-Mixing Marriage of Pres. Obama’s Parents
Steve Benson, RfM.

The lily-white High Command of the Mormon Church wants you to listen up, President Barack Obama:


Your parents did not do the advisable thing in racially mixing when they married each other and produced you as their offspring.

Indeed, let the record white-and-delightsomely demonstrate that according to Spencer W. Kimball in statements he made which were reaffirmed while he was serving as Mormon Church president in 1978 when its anti-Black policy was amended (statements which to this day stand unrevoked by the Mormon Church), interracial marriage is officially not considered a good thing by the LDS Church. To be sure, the Mormon Church officially and explicitly recommends that people do not race-mix through marriage.

Crossing Racial Lines is Bad for the Breed

“Now, the brethren feel that it is not the wisest thing to cross racial lines in dating and marrying. There is no condemnation. We have had some of our fine young people who have crossed the lines. We hope they will be very happy, but experience of the brethren through a hundred years has proved to us that marriage is a very difficult thing under any circumstances and the difficulty increases in interrace marriages” (Spencer W. Kimball, Brigham Young University devotional, 5 January 1965)

“When I said you must teach your people to overcome their prejudices and accept the Indians, I did not mean that you would encourage intermarriage. I mean that they should be brothers, to worship together and to work together and to play together; but we must discourage intermarriage, not because it is sin. I would like to make this very emphatic. A couple has not committed sin if an Indian boy and a white girl are married, or vice versa. It isn’t a transgression like the transgressions of which many are guilty. But it is not expedient. Marriage statistics and our general experience convince us that marriage is not easy. It is difficult when all factors are favorable. The divorces increase constantly, even where the spouses have the same general background of race, religion, finances, education, and otherwise. ” (Spencer W. Kimball, “The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball,” p. 302)"

Read more at link.

Brigham Young, Second Prophet of the LDS on race & marrying wrong:

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).

"In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the "servant of servants," and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 172).

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

Mormonism and Joseph Smith, greater than Jesus!

"God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil--all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet . . . " (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 408-409)

"I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book," (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461).

"I have taught for thirty years, and still teach, that he that believeth in his heart and confesseth with his mouth that Jesus is the Christ and that Joseph Smith is his Prophet to this generation, is of God; and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fulness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is antichrist. All who confess that Joseph Smith is sent of God in the latter days, to lay the foundation of his everlasting kingdom no more to be thrown down, and will continue to keep his commandments, are born of God. All those who believe in their hearts and confess with their mouths that Joseph Smith is a true Prophet, at the same time trying with their might to live the holy principles Joseph the Prophet has revealed, are in possession of the Holy Spirit of God and are entitled to a fullness." (Brigham Young, Second Prophet of the LDS, Vol. 9 p. 312).

"Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the veil in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them—something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them—namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will ex-claim—“Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!” But it is true." (Brigham Young, Vol. 9 p. 289).

---

There is, literally, thousands upon thousands of other racist, infantile, blasphemous quotes from the Mormon scriptures and leaders. This is only the tip of the iceberg, but I got tired after collecting just this many!

But before I leave it at that, here is probably the greatest evidence to demonstrate the silliness of this religion. It is a documentary on the Mormon Book of Abraham. It is essentially a long story of a fraud that was proven, beyond any reasonable doubt, beyond any measure of faith, to be a fake during the 1960s when Egyptologists got a hold of the Papyri Smith purchased from a travelling Mummy show which he "translated" into a book, originally written "in the hand of Abraham," detailing the glories of Kolob:

The audacity of the lie will enrage you, and how the LDS still lies to defend the indefensible.

[Angry Dragon]

1. Let them produce the Golden Tablets

[CthulhusEvilCousin]

2. They can't.

It got taken away! Which was good, since if they actually existed, they would have weighed over 200 pounds. Quite difficult to be carrying around!

[Angry Dragon]

4. When??

[hrmjustin]

5. I think when smith finished translating it to english. Well that is what they say.

[CthulhusEvilCousin]

8. After they were translated

The angel Nephi, who pitied Smith who was always reading the 200 pound gold plates from his hat, took them away as soon as the 'Reformed Egyptian" had been translated, word for word, into King James English.

[jsr]

18. They probably ended up here:

[murielm99]

3. Let them produce the tax returns. n/t

[CthulhusEvilCousin]

14. The angel Nephi

took those away too!

[marshall]

33. They're stored up with Moses's stone tablets

Must be a vault somewhere in heaven.

[BellaKos]

6. Wow

A figment of Smith's imagination.
hmmm. I wonder if I could do that? Lemmie see.
One day I was in the parking lot where I work. Lo and behold, an Angel appeared unto me who said, "You have been chosen to lead the chosen people to the chosen, special land. Details to follow."
And I proclaimed this to be true. Soon, others followed. And I led them to Utah or somewhere -- maybe Wasilla or Kansas. And then, I told them that the Angel had told me to tell them to give me 10% of their money. And lo and behold, my religion was established -- now and forever, amen. Alpha and Omega and all that. (Of course, a website with a DonateNow button is a great help, too.)

[amborin]

7. mormons are the maximum anti-environmentalists

They want to trash the wilderness, exercise dominion over the earth.

Reagan had James watt as interior secretary and he wanted to destroy everything.

Romney wants to give all public land to the states, which will well and develop it. Our parks, habitat, etc. Gone!

[Jonny Oddom]

9. I am new to the site...

and I am an atheist, but I would never denigrate another person's religion no matter how silly you think it is in a public forum. I'll visit some more on the site, but if this intolerant viewpoint is characteristic on the D underground site I'll probably be just moving along.

Peace, Love and Freedom.

[madmom]

10. How is teaching and learning about another person's religion denigrating?

[Jonny Oddom]

11. By..

calling it silly. People's religious views are easily found by doing a google search, but posting their tenants in a public forum and then calling them silly is intolerant in what those people believe.

[CthulhusEvilCousin]

13. the tenants you are referring to

include institutional racism, with some of those quotes being from the 1960s from Mormon Apostles who claim to have a direct link to God. If these are the tenants of Mormonism, they deserve to be exposed. It's also worth noting that the Mormons, traditionally, hide their beliefs and history. You will find that ex-Mormons living in Utah are often afraid to reveal some tidbit of information because to speak publicly on those issues, breaking their 'sacred' oath of secrecy, can often lead to serious consequences with family and employment. The Mormons, especially in Utah, practice shunning.

[madmom]

15. Is this not a free country? Are we now not allowed to post things of interest on a forum for

fear of hurting someone's feelings? I've had lots of people tell me things that have hurt my feelings on this forum as well as to my face and guess what? I'm still able to function normally, I'm an adult, I got over it! This thing about not talking about religion or having to respect all religion is shit for the birds. They don't respect anyone who doesn't believe their shit, why should others respect them?

[kath]

19. TENETS, you two, TENETS. A "tenant" is one that pays rent to occupy property or a dweller in a place

[Jonny Oddom]

30. Oops,

I am sorry that I mispled a word. I hope you understood the intent of the misspelled word. I am new to Dem U and did not realize their are grammer Nazis. I will try to be on my toes when speling or gramer is important to my post.

[NCLefty]

35. It's actually spelled "grammar."

*runs*

[CokeMachine]

37. You showed him!!

Good job -- hope your proud (yeah I know it's "you're" but wanted to give you something to jump on). Bless your heart .

[_ed_]

20. That's like saying that posting the "tenants" of astrology

is intolerant to those who believe in it. It has nothing to do with toleration. Mormons should feel free to prove their claims with evidence-based reason.

[Jonny Oddom]

41. Well ed _

should we ask all religions to prove their religious claims through evidence based reason (I am guessing you are referring to empirical data)? Religion is Faith in your believing, which I lost that some time ago. But, I have been reading a lot on other religions and would gravitate towards Buddhism.

[Jonny Oddom]

16. I think the OP...

is neither teaching or learning. I worked on the Hopi Indian Reservation for 2 years. The Hopi religion is complex and interpreted differently in academic literature. The link I post below to wiki is somewhat true but mostly false. I was fortunate to have an employee who was a half Tewa and half Hopi. He could speak both Tewa and Hopi and was on track to be a spiritual leader from the village of Shungopovi, he was only 22 years old at the time. Most Hopi religious activities are strictly closed to outsiders, but I was allowed in to quite a few where I learned alot. From my time there in the kiva's, we are still in the Third World, there was never Hopi tablets, and I found it fascinating to learn from them. The Hopi are good people. If you just did a google search on the Hopi religion, like what the OP did for Mormonism, you will find stuff you think looks silly. But it has to be put in context of how they actually practice their religion.

From my experiences, it just doesn't make sense to judge or criticize someone based on their religion. Judge them on how they act and behave in society. Also, in the course of my career I have met many Mormons. I can say that all that I have met were great people. Although, I would suggest that if you invite a Mormon to go fishing with you; invite two Mormons otherwise the one Mormon will drink all your beer.

Peace, Love and Freedom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopi_mythology

[CthulhusEvilCousin]

17. What nonsense!

Issues of race, polygamy, and outright ridiculous claims is riddled in the very foundations of Mormonism itself. I would be very interested in seeing how you can explain, for example, the racism in the quotes I have provided by pointing to the "context of their faith." How do you interpret differently a sentence that in plain English is racist? Or how do you interpret an alleged prophet, who claims divine contact with God, who claims there are Mormons living on the surface of the moon and the sun, who dress in the Quaker style and live up to a thousand years?

[madmom]

21. This ^^^

[Jonny Oddom]

23. Kinda of like old...

testament scripture that the majority of Christians do not practice. I don't understand your hatred of Mormons even given their somewhat strange foundation. I am not a Mormon, but in the field I work in (Civil Engineering) there is quite a few Mormons I have worked with. Everyone I have interacted with is a good person, they donate time/money helping the less fortunate and I have not seen any hint of racism. As a person of color, I think I would sense a racist mentality. I have also interacted with a very extremist religion, Islam. I spent 6 years in the Marines with a few tours in the "sand box". If you made the same post about Islam as you did for Mormonism, you would be marked for death in the countries I was in.

Peace, Love and Freedom.

[CthulhusEvilCousin]

24. I am a minority

and I have sensed an element of racism. A white friend told me once that all the Mormons in his neighborhood insisted that long time Mormons grow whiter as time passes. You see this same teaching repeated by Mormons from the beginning even up to recent times. This is not a hatred of MORMONS. It is, however, an exposure of what Mormonism teaches, which you will not honestly acknowledge. Very interesting when you called Islam an "extremist" religion, essentially saying that terrorism is a focus of Islam; yet, you are making excuses for the very plain racist and absurd teachings of the LDS which I am providing you NOT from some random extremist, but from the PROPHETS AND APOSTLES OF THE LDS WHO CLAIM DIRECT CONTACT TO GOD.

[CthulhusEvilCousin]

27. Some leap in logic

since slavery, as well as polygamy, are illegal. It was for that reason the Mormon Prophet, who had maybe 11 (I could be wrong, but it was an impressive number) or so wives at the time back in the early 1900s, declared to his flock that polygamy would no longer be practiced. Though, to be fair, they did practice polygamy secretly for another decade or two. You don't have to be committing slavery to be a racist, and the proof of that are the racist teachings of the LDS from their LEADERS that have been going on long after the civil war. You still will not acknowledge that I am not talking about some random Mormon here or there, but their divinely led prophets and apostles.

And then you say you do not go out of your way to attack someone's religion, but you assert that terrorism goes hand in hand with Islam. How much of what you've told me is true? Are you even an atheist? Because, certainly, you are a right-wing troll, as your words I have read often on Free Republic.

[Jonny Oddom]

40. Confused?

I have never posted or commented in the Free Republic.

I used to be a born again Baptist, then I went to war. There is no god in my mind after what I've seen.

Oh, by the the way I have been in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Afghanistan, Iraq and Yemen (and other places) which all have polygamy as legal to this day. Sucks to be a girl there. Seen it first hand.

Also, slavery is still going on in North Africa. Don't believe me, then vacation in Sudan.

I have spent my time doing my governments dirty works, I want Peace, Love and Freedom.

[CthulhusEvilCousin]

43. No one

is talking about Islam, other than you. It's just that, for some reason you want us to believe the Islam is a worse religion than Mormonism, that the teachings of Islam are inherently violent, sexist and evil, and therefore we ought to ignore the institutional racism and deception of Mormonism, whose teachings are inherently racist, sexist and evil (as demonstrated). And all this you do while accusing us of being bigots, and not to judge people, and not to attack a man's religion, while claiming that all Islam is terrorist, while neither proving your assertions nor acknowledging the evidence against you. And then, you add, that you are a war hero who was so horribly scarred by the world that you forsook the Baptists and belief. I think you're trolling me something fierce.

[CthulhusEvilCousin]

12. Mormonism has historically denigrated

the entirety of Christianity, calling all of Christendom the "whore of Babylon," and Christian ministers the "servants of Satan," as well as any one of a different skin tone. Other than some minor commentary, all that you are seeing are quotes from Mormon scripture and their leadership. In three words, Mormonism denigrates itself.

[Curmudgeoness]

26. Welcome to DU, Jonny Oddom.

I am sorry that you may not stay. There will be many things here that will frustrate you. Many here will agree with those posts, and many here will disagree. But if you don't get caught up in one issue, you may find that this site has a wealth of information that you will not find publicized elsewhere.

As to this one issue, I happen to know nothing of the Mormon religion, and I think that it is important for us to know what one of the candidates for president believes.

[Jonny Oddom]

36. Thank you, I am sticking around for a while to read some posts.

I know little about the Mormon religion as well, I just know a few people that are Mormons.

[Ikonoklast]

42. Actually, no, you are doing no such thing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=292994&sub=trans

You come here telling us that we are bigots because we laugh at silly religions made up by con men, then you say all of Islam are terrorists.

Fuck off.

[ZombieHorde]

38. Religious respect is often debated here on DU.

You'll find many who agree with you, and many who do not agree with you.

[siligut]

39. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

Edmund Burke.

[alterfurz]

22. Ed Abbey on Mormonism:

"Nothing so hilarious could possibly be true. Or all bad."

[SheilaT]

28. Aside from the fact the the entire OP violates

the DU rules about posting no more than four paragraphs of anything, the ignorance that the belief humans lived on the Moon and on the Sun is breathtaking.

I'm curious, do Mormons generally not understand evolution and science? Is that a religion that teaches a young earth theory?

[CthulhusEvilCousin]

29. Oops

But only roughly 3 paragraphs were from a blog post, the link from the intermarriage section. The rest were from open-source documents. The Book of Mormon, Journal of Discourses, etc, all available in various places online.

[Jonny Oddom]

31. However,

you view a persons religion by a far away objective vision. Mormons killed 0 people in the last ten years. Islamic jihadists killed more than 19.000 people in the last ten years. I have been in Utah and I have been in Afghanistan, there is a stark distance in tolerance on religion. I always laugh at my conservative family/friends when they talk about the government they want, yeah cut off their heads if they disagree.

I've been out of the military for more than 7 years. Did Iraq thrice and Afghanistan twice. Worse was Falujah in '04. Those jihadi people are scary.

Your rant is very similar to the objections to JFK. Oh Nooes, a Catholic president.

[Blue Idaho]

32. All Extremists are Dangerous.

Regardless of how they worship.

Just because Mormons haven't killed anyone in the last ten years doesn't mean Mormons haven't killed anyone. If you live in Utah I am sure you know that, if not, Google "Mormon Wars" and "Mountain Meadows Massacre" just for starters.

Welcome to DU!

[CthulhusEvilCousin]

34. That's not a very objective vision

to base everything around body count. Though, the LDS still does lie about its Prophet's involvement in the Mountain Meadows Massacre, where every man and woman was murdered and the children were ransomed back to the U.S. government by Brigham Young, the same fellow in those quotes who promised that apostates would turn wrinkled and black and that God will kill you on the spot if you marry with a non-white. They are also dishonest even about the slightest details of just about any unhappy/dark part of their religious history. The Catholics don't tell their followers to read only faith-promoting materials, nor do they pimp discredited claims as the truth and knowingly lie to promote it as the truth. For example, the Mormon Book of Abraham which Smith "translated" from papyri he purchased from a travelling mummy show. The papyri were examined in the 60s by Egyptologists and were found to be standard Egyptian burial rites. The LDS has their own "Egyptologists" who go through papyri finding ways to make it talk about Abraham, but this is not work that they dare present outside of the isolation of approved church literature written only for the Mormon. They, officially, do not comment on them at all.

So far as I know, there are no Catholics who would refer to Catholicism as a cult. I don't think even angry ex-Catholics would go that far, though they might call the Catholic church many things. But check out ex-Mormon forums, and read about how their lives were destroyed by the LDS, how the LDS pressured their families to shun them, how employers discriminate against them, and all because they decided to believe something different. The Catholics do not have any ex-Catholic support groups filled with broken and victimized people. Ex-Mormons support groups do. And that right there is the fundamental difference.

If the LDS wants to be taken seriously, it must tell the truth about its own history and defend itself with REASON about what they believe. Otherwise, there is no reason to give respect or care if one receives any respect from a religious institution that preaches disrespect and outright lies within the confines of their churches and temples.