I'm beginning to think it may be a 4 or 5 person General Election

[Armstead]

The GOP is going through a meltdown that makes the Dems look like cool cucumbers.

So there may be at least two candidates coming out on that side. Trump and an Establishment Centrist Conservative Republican type.

But Dems are also going through a less bombastic split. If Clinton manages to steamroll through, there's the Centrist Dems. That could fuel momentum for the Greens or some other protest progressiove candidacy that could at least be a spoiler.

And now Jesse The Body Ventura is talking about maybe running. That would attract the unaffiliated kook fringe some of the Alex Jones variety.

Would certainly make for some interesting debates.

[CoffeeCat]

1. I don't think any Establishment yahoos on the Republican side

Last edited Mon Feb 29, 2016, 10:22 PM - Edit history (1)

is going to catch up with Trump.

Yes, the Kochs and the other establishment (and the neocons, if you can believe that!) goofballs are running around like the Keystone Cops, trying to bring back to life the Rubio campaign.

It's just not going to happen.

The Republicans thought they were being oh so clever when they created hate radio to control their masses. All they had to do was work together, disseminate those sound bytes and get Hannity, Beck, Levin, Limbaugh and the rest of the mouthpieces to repeat the mantras. Then, they had a bunch of useful idiots who were rabidly against Obamacare, the rich paying their fair share of taxes and against any form of gun control.

But a funny thing happened on the way to crazy town--right-wing radio listeners went feral.

The Republican party created this Frankenstein. And now their monster has turned against them and has selected Donald Trump as their new savior.

Oy vey!

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. You realize that now I have to write a deep analysis piece about this

and when the media is talking about what I have spoken off for years, the Whig like collapse...

Oh well... this will be an election where all previous rules litter the ground.

[1StrongBlackMan]

3. One Democrat and 3 or 4 republicans? ... I'm good with that ...

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it won't help in down ticket races; but, it will lock up the White House.

And, we can encourage the winning Democratic coalition to focus on the House and Senate in 2018.

[Armstead]

4. Nothing is predictable.

[1StrongBlackMan]

5. Do you really see more than 1 Democrat running in the G/E? eom.

[Armstead]

6. I see the possibility of the Greens drawing enough to be a spoiler

Will depend on what happens on the GOP right side.

You can have the equivalent of four candidates -- Angry and alienated progressives, Clinton as the Demo majority......And who knows?" with the GOP at this point. The GOP will either coalesce a majority or divide among Trump and an Establishment Conservative.

[1StrongBlackMan]

7. And who will this Green candidate be? ... Jill Stein?

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b....

Nah. Ain't gonna happen.

[NWCorona]

15. With a loaded field

That might be something.

[Armstead]

18. Most likely, as she makes a career of it

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. So that might peel away .0001 percent of the Democratic vote ...

{note to sticklers for accuracy ... I have no idea what the actual percentage might be, but I pretty certain it'll be less than .5%}

[Armstead]

26. To be honest, the Democrat are pissing off enough people that it could be greater

Not me because I don't want to see a Republican in the WH.

But I no longer identify with this hidebound party and its resistance to change. I'm fed up after decades of seeing it hollow out its soul and engage in a death-lock embrace with Corporate and Wall St. Money and Power.

The last of many straws was its institutional decision this time around to smash the hopes of anyone who wants real Liberal reform of this rotten corrupt system and a real alternative to the GOP, to install their favored insider.

I am not alone in this anger. I'm not going to hand it over to Trump, but there may enough who are willing to do that to make the crucial difference.

[brooklynite]

30. I predict Jill Stein's share will DOUBLE...from 0.36 to 0.72

[NWCorona]

12. +1!

Neither Hillary or Bernie would do that. Bloomberg isn't a factor... At this point.

[kristopher]

33. I agree, it isn't. Heard a talking head working against Trump today say...

...that even though the candidates all signed an agreement to abide by the results of the primary process, the losers to Trump would be justified in reneging on the agreement because, after all, it is just a piece of paper.

On the flip side, Trump has been almost nonstop in his rejection of the validity of the agreement on the grounds that the RNC has acted in bad faith in taking sides trying to derail his candidacy.

Trump has a point. So does the newscaster who pointed out the agreement is just a piece of paper.

With that in mind, I wouldn't fault Bernie a bit for considering his alternatives based on the despicable behavior of the DNC.

[Armstead]

35. Bernie won't...He's too honorable

[kristopher]

36. Honor doesn't require accepting dishonorable behavior from others.

[DemocraticWing]

20. A divided ticket does have the potential to help down ticket races, IMO.

Another thing to note, however, is that split off candidacies don't always work the way you think. John Anderson in 1980 was supposed to doom Reagan, and both Henry Wallace and Strom Thurmond in 1948 were supposed to doom Truman. Turns out that neither or those things happened.

[Art_from_Ark]

28. John Anderson was a stealth candidate

He was a liberal Republican (they existed in those days) who ran to the left of Carter.

[alcibiades_mystery]

8. I just can't shake the scent of Romney in the wings

He's a thirsty motherfucker and he's sniffing water.

[GreatGazoo]

48. and I think there are more who may jump in if they see enough blood in the water

Michael Bloomberg for one.

And I agree on Romney because he likely still believes he is the chosen one for the Mormon's "White Horse Prophesy".

[NCTraveler]

10. Dens seem to be solid.

I get you think otherwise but the party itself, and the voters, are more united behind one candidate on our side than we were in '08.

[restorefreedom]

11. i saw another bloomberg trial balloon today, too

its gonna get crazy

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. I will knowingly and willfully violate Godwin's Law

Trump is Hitler...If Germany's Communist party was willing to work with the Socialist party to stop Hitler's National Socialist party, though Stalin urged them to sit on their hands much to his eventual detriment, I expect everybody to the left of the extreme right to unite against Trump.


We saw the same thing when France's Conservative party united with the Socialist party to defeat Marine LePen's National Front party in the recent French regional elections.

[Armstead]

17. Just a more extreme version of the "hold your nose" pattern in most elections since 1980

And thus any real positive change -- even on a small level -- once again is stifled.

And next time the choices may be even more extreme -- if there is any choice.

I'm very depressed at the prospects for this nation.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. We were never confronted with the threat of incipient fascism.

"When fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in a flag."

-Sinclair Lewis

If I was around I would have joined the Abraham Lincoln Brigade to fight Francisco Franco...This is our generation's fight. i rather live in a flawed liberal democracy than a authoritarian one.

[KoKo]

23. He is against the TPP and other "Foul Trade" Agreements...

So there's that...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. He refused to disavow the Ku Klux Klan.

He (TRUMP) is against the TPP and other "Foul Trade" Agreements...
So there's that..

-KoKo

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1376000

He (TRUMP) refused to disavow the Ku Klux Klan

"So there's that..."


I won't stop anybody who is inclined to support him from doing so , including you, but I will do everything legally possible to get other people of good will to join me in stopping him.

[KoKo]

45. I support Bernie Sanders....

He is also against the TPP and didn't vote for NAFTA. Hillary "was for it before she was against it" only changing her opinion when Bernie started to get traction in the polls.

I think you must have somehow missed my sig line, even though it is quite prominent.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. I will just let our words speak for themselves and let posterity decide:

We were never confronted with the threat of incipient fascism.

"When fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in a flag."

-Sinclair Lewis

If I were around I would have joined the Abraham Lincoln Brigade to fight Francisco Franco...This (TRUMP) is our generation's fight. i rather live in a flawed liberal democracy than a authoritarian one.

-DemocratSinceBirth

He (TRUMP) is against the TPP and other "Foul Trade" Agreements...
So there's that..

-KoKo

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1376000

[Armstead]

27. You don't live in a flawed liberal democracy

You live in a dying democracy that has been taken over by an oligarchy, who are becoming increasingly authoritarian in an institutional way.

Trump would just make that official. But they don't need Trump because they have both political parties to do their dirty work.

Yes, I'm very angry right now, and depressed. I've had it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. I still can still say what I want to say.

I still can say what I want to say. My non documented friends don't have to worry about a knock on the door and being sent to a detention center and then back to a homeland most of them never knew or forgot... Muslims can visit America like everybody else. Protesters aren't routinely beat up...

Maybe these concerns seem picayune to you but they aren't trivial to me.

If you believe there isn't a chasm between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton there is nothing a random internet poster can do to disabuse you of that notion.


Trump is a bully and incipient fascist.

[Armstead]

31. I agree that Trump is a bully and incipient fascist and much worse than Clinton

But your faith that your friends won't be rounded up is....well, a little too trusting. What about those kids Clinton wants to use to "send a message" that people who live in fear have no hope of escape or help from us.

Protesters do get beat up.

And in the more mundane aspects of daily life.....well we haven't hit full dystopia yet, but we're heading in that direction.

[DemocraticWing]

21. I agree with you. Either Clinton or Sanders, we must all work to stop Trump.

If we nominated a can of beans I'd vote for it to stop Trump.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Jean-Marie Le Pen endorses Donald Trump

(CNN)On the heels of his endorsements from a trio of American governors, Donald Trump now has the backing of a leader overseas.

Jean-Marie Le Pen, the founder and former leader of France's National Front party, said Saturday on Twitter that he would support Trump if he were an American. The tweet, written in French, closed with Le Pen offering God's blessing to Trump.


The endorsement is not much of a surprise, given the beliefs shared by Trump and Le Pen. Trump has made immigration a centerpiece of his campaign, pledging to build a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border and to deport millions of undocumented immigrants.

Those proposals would be right at home in Le Pen's far-right National Front party.

The endorsement from abroad comes at a time when Republican leaders here in the U.S. are beginning to line up behind Trump as the party's likely presidential nominee.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/28/politics/jean-marie-le-pen-endorses-donald-trump/

[kristopher]

34. And of course it would be Hillary we're supposed to unite behind?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. Please do as you want to do.

I would appreciate it if you don't harass me. I contribute to this board and patronize this board and I have a right to feel safe and a right to feel comfortable.


Thank you in advance.

[kristopher]

38. Welcome to DU.

That was the implication of your remark, wasn't it? That we should all unite behind Hillary, no matter the manner in which she has conducted her campaign?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. I am not compelling anybody to do anything. You feel the need to compel me to act.

You are making me feel unsafe and you are making me feel uncomfortable. This is an online community:

Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

and as a contributor and participant I have a right to feel comfortable and safe.

[kristopher]

40. And I have the right to discuss the ideas you put out for public review.

I understand the desire to insulate oneself from conversations that challenge one's beliefs, but that isn't the nature of this online community. If that is your over-riding sentiment, the administrators have accommodated you with a protected "group" area where you can share with only those who are of like mind.

Do you think that the behavior of the candidate during the primary process should have no bearing on the party members going into the General Election?

Are principles as important as winning at any cost?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. I asked people to join me in the fight against incipient fascism.

You don't want to join me, that's your right. I am not going to bully you to join me, as if one could any way on an anonymous message board. I would appreciate it if you left me alone. I don't feel safe. You should respect that.

I am thinking of Trump, knocks on the door, and anybody that looks remotely like an immigrant, being asked for papers. I don't feel comfortable and I don't feel safe.

[kristopher]

44. But i think your target of concern is misguided.

Fascism isn't so much about knocks on the door at night - that can happen with any government that turns into a police state.

No, fascism is the takeover of government by corporations. How it played out in Germany is much different than how it unfolded in Japan, and that was yet again totally different than what transpired in Italy. And all of those case studies are different than the path we've followed to lead us to our present state of oligarchic control by corporations and megawealthy individuals.

While Trump is playing the role of an absolute pig, his range of appeal is far too narrow, IMO, to pose a real lasting threat to our democracy given the division of power embodied in its structure. So while you keep saying you are afraid of him and that he makes you feel unsafe, I'd suggest that is an over-reaction to the media hype. My wife is a foreign immigrant and my children are dual nationals that would stand to be affected if your fears were valid. But, I honestly can't see nearly as much cause for concern in the risks posed by Trump getting the R nomination as I do the risks to my children's future ability to live an economically secure life on an unpolluted planet should we permit the oligarchic control to strengthen into REAL fascism.

Jimmy Carter: U.S. Is an 'Oligarchy With Unlimited Political Bribery'
The 39th president said the 'Citizens United' ruling 'violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system'

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/videos/jimmy-carter-u-s-is-an-oligarchy-with-unlimited-political-bribery-20150731

Have a nice evening.

[kgnu_fan]

14. What a mess...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. People have become fed up with politics as usual.

The days of "the lesser evil", "not as bad", and "this time it will be different", aren't as commercially successful as previously and are drawing to end.

[kristopher]

41. I agree.

There is a tsunami of anger on both sides that seems more-than-willing to burn everything to the ground if that's what it takes to change the locus of power in this country.

[FSogol]

32. Nah, it will never happen. n/t

[Gwhittey]

43. Sore-loser Laws and ballot deadlines

It amasses me how so many and over and over people spout about Bernie and/or GOP candidates running as 3rd party if they lose the nomination. Go and read up on sore-loser laws. Either most states have sore-loser law or they have registration dates for Pres general elections that make it so have to register for the General before the Primaries end.

[Armstead]

46. I was not referring to Sanders running 3rd Party

[KoKo]

49. Hard to know....

I saw some babbling on MSNBC with so-called Repub Insiders who were discussing how they could influence the Repub Delegates. Something about how the Republican Parties in each state decide how the Delegates are distributed and they were saying something about "The Constitution Party."

Sorry, they sounded so OTT that I kind of tuned them out. But, the jist was they wanted to stop Trump and felt that the Repub Delegate Rules would allow them to do that. Maybe "The Constitution Party" was Ventura's possible run?

There may be surprises ahead if the Repubs refuse to deal with Trump. Bloomberg didn't poll well and neither has Romney who was making noise...so who would get any traction when the MSM are still showing Trump 24/7 and people are lapping him up.

Then there's the MSM push to force Bernie out by making him seem so weak if he loses the Super Tuesday vote that he should get out even before the rest of the states vote. Yet the same MSM Talking Heads are fine with Cruz and Rubio staying in for the long term because Trump is such a threat.

It really is disgusting...to have to watch it all. But, I can't totally tune out because I've spent so many years working for change that I can't believe that we won't still have a movement for change even if its Hillary or Trump who eventually win. The decades long rot in our country is being exposed, in all its ugliness, and this election is some attempt to address it. Getting through the rest of the year and the election is going to be rough--because, how can we high information voters just tune it out?