"The penchant to defeat Hillary Clinton will transcend any concerns about...Trump"

[EdwardBernays]

There is an overwhelming understanding in our party that we have to be united against Hillary Clinton, because there is too much at stake, if you just look at the Supreme Court alone,” Spicer said. “After the last eight years, everyone on the Republican side understands that.”

Richard Wadhams, a former chairman of the Colorado Republican Party, said there has been a growing acceptance of Trump in recent weeks among party leaders and rank-and-file activists alike.

“There’s a strong possibility that Trump is going to be the nominee, and a lot of Republicans are ready to accept that even though they’ve not been supporters of him,” Wadhams said. “The penchant to defeat Hillary Clinton will transcend any concerns about the way Trump has conducted himself.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/divisions-within-gop-over-trumps-candidacy-are-growing/2016/02/28/97b16010-de3a-11e5-8d98-4b3d9215ade1_story.html

A Hillary nomination will be explosive for GOP turnout and dampen liberal and progressive turnout.

[RufusTFirefly]

1. Yes! A Trump/Sanders election will destroy the Republican Party...

... and restore the Democratic Party.

A Trump/Clinton election will destroy the country.
In that scenario, what happens to the two parties will be moot.

[jfern]

4. Trump vs Hillary would definitely be a terrible election

Both candidates don't really stand for anything but personal power, and would have no qualms about lying and going super negative. The Republicans will rip her to shreads once Bernie is safely out of the picture.

[RufusTFirefly]

81. Either outcome would be a different type of disaster

If Trump wins, we'll have our own Mussolini.

If Hillary wins, it will complete the Republicanization of the Democratic Party, which is already largely to the right of Nixon-era Republicans.

[merrily]

2. Any word on when the FBI investigation will wrap up?

I doubt Trump will tell her people are tired of hearing about her damned emails.

On the other hand, he probably won't bring up her speeches to Goldman Sachs.

[jfern]

5. Yeah, Trump won't let her get off easy

He'll be talking about how he's bought off politicians before, but none of them had a $1 billion sludge fund called the Clinton Foundation. Hillary is a sitting duck there.

[grossproffit]

6. Is this before or after he researched who David Duke is?

[merrily]

8. Trump University. It would be ugly from all sides.

As it is, people in other countries think we're uncivilized.

[draa]

9. I'm betting he'll say he's bought Hillary and Bill as well.

They're good friends so I have no doubt that Trump has donated large sums to the Clintons over the years. We'll probably find out how much if Clinton is the nominee. Trump has no problem using that to his advantage.

[PonyUp]

27. Trump said he has canceled checks showing he bought Hillary several times. n/t

[jeff47]

85. From a political perspective, it will be done by September at the latest.

That's when there will be a leak of the FBI calling for an indictment.

Whether or not it's actually true.

[cantbeserious]

3. All To True - Sadly Some Refuse To Listen

eom

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

7. WTF?

The article you link to is about the implosion of the Republican Party.

[merrily]

10. Are the quotes used in the OP in the article at the link?

[onenote]

52. Yes. From a couple of party hacks at the end of the article

Most of the the article discusses how a Trump nomination will tear the repub party apart. Oh, Trump will do fine in the usual red states. But in purple states where there are suburban repubs? They'll sleep in on election day rather than cast a vote for Trump.

[loyalsister]

11. For that reason, I am dreading the possibility of a 3rd party candidate

I remember well being frustrated by people who were supporting Nader over Gore. Most of them felt certain that there was so little difference between the 2 candidates that it didn't matter who one. I didn't buy the arguement in that case.
This year, there are people who are angry because they haven't felt the economic recovery, and worse than that, their pain doesn't register in numbers and cheerful reports coming from the administration. They have uncertainty about their own and their kids' futures. The last thing they want to vote for is someone who was part of Obama's administration.
When they say there is no difference between the parties it will be much more difficult to counter if Hillary is the nominee than it was in 2000. Many people will not vote for her. There is no light at the end of their tunnel if they are suffering the recovery. I try to make the supreme court argument and that doesn't work with people are being told that their suffering under the status quo is satisfactory.

For those who prioritize peace and say whether it is Clinton or a republican there will be another war, I have no arguemnt because I agree.

They are unfortunately easy pickins for Bloomberg or a Green party candidate if not that, they will stay home. Hillary has no coattails if she is the nominee. Her candidacy will depress Democratic turnout and ruin the chances of Dems winning in a lot of down ticket races that should be conpetetive.

If she is the nominee, I will vote for her with a heavy heart and feel bad for the people who want to hope again. I will not expect that my already difficult poverty situation to get better. And I will dread hearing another war happy president take pride in killing.

[Trust Buster]

12. The Republicans just answered a few questions for Bernie supporters.

Bernie supporters think that Hillary will nominate a corporatist SC nominee. Yet, you post an OP that suggests that Republicans will do everything to stop Hillary from nominating a SC nominee.

Bernie Sanders supporters swear off large donations. Yet, you post an OP that confirms that Republicans will spend record amounts of money to win the right to control the SC.

Finally, if the American people see fit to elect a man who refused to disavow David Duke and the Klu Klux Klan yesterday, then there's nothing either Hillary or Bernie can do to save this country.

Are there NO DEPTHS to which Bernie Sanders supporters won't stoop in their efforts to see Bernie Sanders elected the nominee ?

[beachbum bob]

13. repeat of 2008 when it was hillary supporters predicting doom and gloom if obama was

the nominee....I expect no less from sander's supporters, In the end, Hillary will be the nominee and Hillary will win in November as there will be boatloads of republicans who will refuse to vote for trump and more likely will sit out or even vote for hillary...

[Trust Buster]

14. I respect your response.

[EdwardBernays]

22. The majority of the electorate

Didnt distrust Obama.

And the DNC was getting much higher voter turnout in 08.

[EdwardBernays]

20. You just ignored

The entire OP.

Sanders not taking money from big corporations or lobbyists I'd a strength. He's repeatedly out raised Clinton and can't be accused - accurately in Clinton case - of being corrupt.

And Sanders won't drive up GOP turnout nearly as much as Hillary. Hillary is the perfect storm of utterly hated by the right and widely dislike by independents and untrusted by a plurality of Americans.

Many Bernie supporters won't support her for the same reasons they DO support him.

[Trust Buster]

24. Nonsense. I spoke directly to the points made in the OP.

The Republicans believe that Sanders is a radical Socialist. The idea that Sanders won't drive Republicans to the polls as much as Hillary is illogical on it's face. If you think that the Republicans would be ambivalent about a President Sanders deciding which way the Supreme Court will lean, then you have seriously misread the importance of the Supreme Court to the movers and shakers on the Right. Finally, the money Sanders has raised thus far is mere chump change when compared to the $2 billion plus that Republicans will spend in the general to control the direction of the Supreme Court.

[EdwardBernays]

37. there's no evidence

that Sanders will drive up Republican numbers.. and ample that Clinton will. Sanders is more trusted by Republicans than Trump btw.

They think, Republicans, that BOTH Sanders and Clinton are communists.

As for money, Sanders is out-raising Clinton and Clinton's cash problems will only grow, as she doesn't have a huge base of donors. That problem you describe is much worse for her than Sanders.

[Trust Buster]

47. I have watched for 7 years as Republicans have referred to the President as a Socialist.

Even though President Obama is not a Socialist. They are preoccupied with Socialism. Now, enter Bernie. He actually IS A SOCIALIST by his own admission. Republicans will flock to the polls to prevent a "Socialist" from picking the direction of the Supreme Court.

As for money, you can't have it both ways. You can't tar Hillary with the accusation of corporate donors and then act like Sanders could raise the kind of money that Hillary could to combat the $2 billion Republican war chest. That dog won't hunt.

[EdwardBernays]

61. you realise

that all those people that ACTUALLY think Bernie is a socialist ALSO think Hillary is one?

And that those people will never vote for a Dem.

But they're much more likely to come out and vote to stop someone they've hated for decades then someone they trust more than Trump.

[Trust Buster]

63. I'm telling you that the Republicans have attacked Hillary specifically in the last two years

because they fear her as an opponent. I'm telling you that they have not targeted Bernie in the past 6 months to any major degree because they would relish the opportunity to run against a Socialist. The political ads practically write themselves. A Socialist reshaping the Supreme Court is antithetical to everything the Republicans stand for. Thinking that Republicans wouldn't flock to the polls to prevent a Socialist from reshaping the Supreme Court is just flawed thinking IMO.

[Laser102]

53. Yes. Well said.

[beachbum bob]

15. been around a long time and have followed politics for over 40 yrs

the only election I got wrong was 2000 when I misconstrued how much nader voters hated everyone not named Nader and gave america 8 yrs of shame...because they "had to vote their principles"....in the end when you refuse to be pragmatic, expect disaster.. America and the world would be much different today had Gore won in 2008.....We are looking at the same if not worse scenario here with conservatives with who ever they nominate. They all will destroy our country and our kids future...

I love bernie, always have...but he is raw fresh meat for the conservative hate machine that will destroy him in the general election...there is nothing the same machine can do to hillary that they haven't said or done for 30 years...just like in 2012....that machine couldn't make a dent in the re-election of Obama

[Arazi]

19. Gore won fyi

And Nader isn't to blame for the fiasco - Gore ran a terrible campaign. What happened is nobody's fault but Gore's

[beachbum bob]

31. same nader excuses

had 2,000 or 3,000 nader voters had voted for gore in florida....the supreme court wouldn't had interfered....blood is on nader voters hands my friend

[HooptieWagon]

42. 13% of Democrats voted for Bush.

But I'm sure it was the 1% who voted for Nader that got Bush elected.

[NNadir]

36. Are you claiming that Nader was completely innocent of campaigning heavily for the Republicans?

The self absorbed moron made the claim that Bush = Gore, thereby elevating Bush.

Nader and his supporters made this argument relentlessly, bad mouthing Gore every chance they could possibly find to do so.

Was Bus the same as Gore? The huge piles of dead bodies in the Mideast, Afghanistan, and for that matter, New York City, were they able to speak from beyond death might not agree.

The viciousness, most of it extremely specious, directed against Ms. Clinton, shows that in this fast paced world, it doesn't take long for history to repeat itself.

[JaneyVee]

16. LoL. Hillary will peel off plenty of Repubs.

Women and minorities.

Plus, we'll have Obama, Biden, Liz Warren, John Lewis, and even Bernie campaigning for Hillary!

[NurseJackie]

18. Excellent post!

[EdwardBernays]

21. No

92% of Republicans have a negative view of Hillary.

And many Sanders supporters won't support Hillary either.

[JaneyVee]

25. Republicans and Bernie fans gonna vote the same?

[EdwardBernays]

29. no

A large number of Bernie fans will either vote third party or note vote, because the reasons they support Bernie are the same that they'll never support Clinton.

[BeyondGeography]

35. Bernie's going to tell them to snap out of it

Most will.

[EdwardBernays]

38. no

Sanders voters are not some lock-step cult of personality like Clintonites. We have disagreements with our candidate and discuss those openly.

The reason many support Sanders is the same many will never support Clinton.

Sanders supporters aren't just casually against corruption, willing to ignore it - even if Sanders asks us too...

[BeyondGeography]

54. So if Bernie endorses Hillary he is soft on corruption?

[EdwardBernays]

60. A lot of Sanders supporters

will reach that conclusion... well... more like he's willing to compromise his stance on corruption to help a Dem beat Trump... (ironic isn't it, considering how the Dems routinely tell him he's not a real Dem... he may not believe that, but his supporters got the message - we're not real Dems either - thanks Debbie!)

But we won't all reach the same conclusion on that compromise. Many won't in fact.

[BeyondGeography]

64. Bernie is a model Democrat in practice

Probably one of the best ones out there in terms of his voting record. He has already said in so many words that HRC is head and shoulders above anything the Republicans will serve up in November and he will have no trouble supporting her, particularly with an SC seat at stake and the chance to roll back CU. You're really talking about a small group of people who will have nowhere else to go in November and whose impact will be minimal at best.

[EdwardBernays]

66. no

it's not a small group - remember that indies are the largest voting block and they don't like or trust Hillary... they're not loyal to the brand. And these pathetic voter turnout numbers are including a LOT of kids that only voted BECAUSE of Bernie... The same thing goes for white men... the core of Bernie's support... you think they're just gonna switch in large numbers? They're also the core of Trumps support...

[onenote]

56. Ultimately, as a Sanders supporter, I fear that is Bernie's weak link

He's trying to lead a movement that doesn't want to have a leader.

Ultimately, what makes a candidate successful is the ability to lead. If Bernie doesn't get the nomination and his entreaties for his supporters to work to defeat the repub candidate fall on deaf ears, it will destroy any possibility of the movement he has started being anything other than a one-time flash in the pan.

[EdwardBernays]

59. He's leading by his behaviour

No superpac money, no lobbyist money.

Demanding healthcare as a right.

Demanding free state colleges.

I'm not sure what else you want him to do?

People can follow the principles of a leader, without being in lockstep with every single decision that leader makes.

[onenote]

67. Political reality 101

When it comes to politics, particularly in a representative democracy, no man (or woman) is an island. Getting things done generally requires working with other elected officials. Being able to bring support to the table is where one gets political capital.

If Bernie doesn't get the nomination and he endorses Clinton and his supporters don't follow his lead, his political capital going forward will be diminished.

In 2008, Clinton endorsed Obama and worked for him and while there were some dead-enders out there, the general perception was that her supporters fell in line and helped get Obama elected. Obama reciprocated, and solidified that group as being in his corner, by offering her a major cabinet position. All smart politics. All made possible by the fact that she was perceived as commanding the loyalty of a faction of the party who would follow her lead.

My theory on why Clinton does so well among AAs? Because after fighting Obama, she joined him and brought along a lot of support for him from amongst the ranks of her supporters.

I'm not ruling out Bernie getting the nomination. But it's always been a long shot and while the amount of support he has shown surprised the Democratic establishment, if he doesn't get the nomination and his efforts to lead his supporters falls on deaf ears, the political capital that he (and us) have for our agenda will be significantly weakened.

[EdwardBernays]

71. Honestly

If you think Sanders is in this for political capital or that his supporters will be happy to see him sell out his principals for political ends you've misread who a lot of his supporters are.

I'm not supporting him so he can work in a corrupt administration. I'm not supporting him so he can report to a corrupt President.

There's no political capital that he'll get by supporting Clinton that I or many of his supporters want any part of.

The system is broken. Being a cog in a broken system doesn't fix that system. You guys love to tell us that as President Sanders would be stymied at every turn. But he'd suddenly have no problem making real change in a lesser position? Under a corrupt administration? That doesn't believe in his ideas?

C'mon.

[onenote]

73. In the real world it takes political capital to get things done. I'm sure Bernie understands that

even if some of my fellow Sanders' supporters don't.

Some of us realize that when you go up against established forces in a democracy, change comes incrementally. Sometimes faster and sometimes slower, but never, ever all at once.

[EdwardBernays]

86. You're conflating two things

I'm not saying he can't do it without help, but he certainly can't do it with any capital Clinton has to offer.

[Merryland]

80. Very true.

I don't take political advice from Bernie, Thom Hartmann, Hillary Clinton or David Brock. I make up my own mind. It doesn't matter to me if Bernie ends up endorsing Clinton in terms of my own decision. It won't be hard to stay home or write in Bernie.

[blm]

87. and, to you and others claiming to support Sanders see Trump as 'not corrupt'?

Anyone who can see or advocate Trump as anywhere NEAR incorruptible as Bernie needs their HEAD EXAMINED. Or they should be outed as a pro-Trump operative.

[Merryland]

79. Bernie can say anything he wants

It's not just about Bernie.

[BeyondGeography]

83. You're right, it is about something bigger

And puritopia isn't it.

[JaneyVee]

51. But not voting for Dem nominee is basically a vote for Republicans.

If we had to put up candidates who only passed purity tests we would only have 5 senate seats. The beauty of America is our diversity.

[Merryland]

78. I think Hillary is disliked

pretty widely, by both Democrats and republicans. I think it has as much to do with her rather weird personality than it does with her policies.

[Bucky]

32. It won't be that hard for Trump to unify the Republicans

His work won't be that hard... he just has to be more crafty than he is neurotic.

[JaneyVee]

55. GAH!

[Betty Karlson]

17. "La-la-la-la" - Debbie can't hear you! eom

[watoos]

23. Just my opinion

and I am a staunch Bernie man, I donated almost 500 bucks, the rank and file Republicans detest Hillary, but make no mistake, the establishment Republicans, the people who control the narrative, the owners of the M$M, the Wall Street bankers, have no qualms about voting for a neoliberal, neocon, HRC.

Does anyone truly believe that the person that Hillary nominates to the SC would be a similar person that Bernie would nominate? Regardless, we need to retake the Senate or we aren't going to get a liberal SC nominee, this group of reich wing Republicans vote in lock step and they would go 8 more years before nominating a liberal SC justice. Bernie won't cave to them, he will stand his ground and nominate a liberal justice, what history is out there to indicate that Hillary will stand her ground? The one big reason that Hillary and her supporters use as an argument to vote for her is that she will nominate a liberal justice, for her to do that she is going to have to buck a lot of people who donated to her and her Foundation.

[GoneFishin]

62. Her portrayal as a liberal is a myth. She never votes against big money and big war. She is a neocon

[GreatGazoo]

26. SuperPAcs and surrogates will tie Trump to Hillary to suppress Trump's vote

Super PACs can attack Trump from the Right in a way that Hillary or Bernie can't.

Rule #2 of GE politics: "Separate your opponent from their natural base." Against Obama that took the form of 'he isn't Black enough.' Against Romney it was 'not Christian enough.'

Against Trump it looks like this:

[EdwardBernays]

33. If you haven't noticed

they've been trying to do that for months and it hasn't worked.

Ted Cruz tried for weeks and weeks before SC and got his ass handed to them.

Clintonites are making the EXACT same miscalculation that the media and the GOP elite made over and over again: underestimating Trump.

How many times has his downfall been predicted in the media? How many attack from PACs has he shrugged off? How many millions in advertisements have his supporters ignored? And you think that they'll listen when those attacks are from one of the most distrusted names in politics?

That's delusional.

[GreatGazoo]

45. No, Hillary won't be voicing this stuff --

It will come from SuperPACs and surrogates during the GE. They will hammer it in the swing states and the rest of won't see much of it.

Just as Team Clinton and surrogates attack Sanders from the Left ('great ideas but HE can't get them done'), they will attack Trump from the Right.

Ultimately:
Trump's total vote = Trump nuts - RWers turned off by Trump + those who come out just to vote against HRC
HRC count = HRC supporters - Dems turned off by HRC + those who come out just to vote against Trump

[EdwardBernays]

49. That was already tried

in SC...

Superpacs and surrogates spents millions and millions to destroy Trump.

Trump won in a landslide.

It's going on in the media every day - Trump leads GOP polls in every state but one. The GOP is ignoring all commercials and media and supporting Trump.

Trump will unite the Republicans much more than Clinton will unite the left. Trump is still climbing, while Clinton is shedding supporters on the left every day.

You've also left out independents - the largest voting block - in your calculations. They don't trust or like Hillary. At all. They choose to NOT associate with a party... who will they support more? The postergirl for status quo and corrupt insider politics? Or the ultimate outsider?

Trump is already beating Hillary in Florida polling... as the weeks progress Republicans - desperate to win back the WH - will coalesce around Trump.

Sure, just wait and see... we'll know who's right soon enough.

[youceyec]

28. No it wont.

Everyone already expects her to be nominee. This is already baked in. This article is just desperation and meat for the gullible. Lots of conservatives and Rs have joined #NeverTrump.

[greymouse]

30. I guess I'm not "everybody"

The Repubs, Dems, Independents in my own family are for Bernie.

[youceyec]

39. you can be for one

but expect the other

[EdwardBernays]

34. NeverTrump

will easily be trumped by NeverHillary

[youceyec]

40. id call you

a traitor to your party. But I wont.

[PonyUp]

41. Why is he a traitor? Did he say he was voting for Trump? n/t

[youceyec]

44. since hillary is expected

to be nominee, and if he is for what he posted. then yes, that would indirect vote for the con man.

im making a lot of assumptions I know.

[EdwardBernays]

46. you've missed the point

Even if I voted for Hillary personally many thousands of INDEPENDENT Progressives never ever will. Independents make up the largest block of voters.

On top of that ACTUAL Progressives won't vote for corrupt and dishonest candidates... that means Trump OR Hillary.

[EdwardBernays]

43. I'd call anyone

that supports a corrupt and dishonest candidate that is going to insure a Trump victory a traitor to our country. But I won't

FTR: I care more about America than the Party.

[livetohike]

48. Nope. Here in Pennsyltuckey in one of the reddest CDs, 4 people

just last night told me they will vote for Hillary if Trump is the GOP nominee.

Granted this is a small sample of the 40 people at my community choir practice. 😊

[watoos]

68. I live in Alabama also

halfway between Pittsburgh and Philly, and my little town is gung ho Trump.

I have to laugh when I wear my Bernie hat out in public the old white geezers glare at me, but the young'uns compliment me.

Just curious, if they don't like Trump, who is their guy? I have seen little support for Rubio or Cruz.

[livetohike]

84. I think they are disgusted with their choices on the GOP side. I

thought they might go for Kasich, so it surprised me that they all said they would vote for Hillary. I am even more surprised that they brought up politics in the first place!

[Bad Thoughts]

50. We've run a weak field

Not enough candidates to inspire complex debate, not enough candidates to bring in volunteers to excite peple about politics and register voters, not enough choices to be whittled down. We got milquetoast and picked over candidates, those who were too regional in their outlook, those who seem deaf to the ongoing fears and animosities bubbling beneath the surface. And we ran a field that looks old, trapped in the 60s.

[onenote]

57. The trend is running the other way. More repubs are publicly disavowing Trump

and stating they will not support him if he gets the nomination. And as that number grows, it will give cover to more and more repubs to sit out the election, particularly suburban repubs without whom the repubs cannot win purple states.

Latest example:http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141363104

[George II]

58. Hillary Clinton will still be the Democratic nominee and will be elected President.

[Tarc]

65. "There is an overwhelming understanding in our party that we have to be united against Hillary..."

There is? Really? Funny how this "understanding" isn't being reflected in the election results.

[EdwardBernays]

70. A nominee

Hasn't been chosen yet. Just FYI.

[Tarc]

82. Sanders leads in about 2-3 states, while Hillary has the rest

The only shot at winning, esp after he loses 10 of 12 tomorrow, is for blowout wins in at least 2 large or 3-4 mid-sized ones. Looking at the primary calendar, there does not appear to be any upcoming states that fit that criteria.

Just FYI.

[emulatorloo]

69. This worked so well for Vice President Palin, didn't it?

Trump's this cycle's Palin. Mainstream voters aren't going to allow him near the White House. That includes sane Republicans and Independents. They'll vote for Bernie or Clinton over Trump.

[treestar]

72. So we should pick our candidate because the Republicans will be

more energized to defeat Hillary than they would Bernie?

[EdwardBernays]

74. No

You should never use one metric.

However if you wanna go around bragging how much better your candidate will do against Trump - which Clintonites do on a daily basis - you'd be well advised not to ignore this sort of information either.

Hillary will drive up the GOP vote and down the progressive vote.

[treestar]

75. nothing needs to drive up the GOP vote

They vote, even if they don't like the candidate because they are not conservative enough (and yes I have heard right wingers say McCain and Romney lost because they were not conservative enough - the mirror image of what we have here). So that is not a consideration.

Progressives need to quit threatening us with their non-voting! It's bad enough without doing it on purpose to get back at the "centrists" because you can afford to have a Republican administration and prefer that schadenfreude over people!

[liberal N proud]

76. Fearmongering

[WillyT]

77. K & R !!!