So now it's that black folks won't vote for Sanders because they are anti-Semitic? (UPADTED)

[Chitown Kev]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Agschmid (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

Last edited Sun Feb 28, 2016, 07:24 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/02/24/1490331/--Enough-is-enough-If-you-have-something-to-say-say-it-directly

Enough is enough. If you have something to say it, say it directly"

Yes, I have seen the “artful smears” and “innuendos” around here for some time. In fact, I was directly accused of being anti-semitic.

People seem to have forgotten that Joe Lieberman was Al Gore’s running mate in 2000 and that the Democratic ticket won ~90% of the African-American vote.

Do you even know who this next guy is?

His name is Steve Cohen.

He is currently the House Rep for the 9th Congressional District in Tennessee, a seat once held by Harold Ford, Sr. and Harold Ford, Jr.

In fact, Cohen defeated Harold Ford’s younger brother, Jake (who ran as an independent) to win that seat in 2006.

Cohen has repeatedly defeated African American Democratic challengers in order to maintain that seat.

The voters in the 9th Congressional (which includes Memphis) have repeatedly voted for Cohen in spite of the fact that the support of black clergy in the 9th Congressional has been lukewarm, at best.

And yes, anti-Semitism has been an issue in some of Cohen’s previous campaigns...and black voters have paid it no mind and voted for Cohen anyway.

The racial/ethnic demographics of Tennessee’s 9th Congressional speak for themselves:


36.1% White, 59.7% Black, 1.5% Asian, 3.0% Hispanic, 0.2% Native American, 0.3% other

(FTR, Rep. Cohen has endorsed Hillary Clinton.)

I say all of this to say, don’t you dare even attempt to fix your mouth to blame Bernie Sanders inability to attract black voters on anti-Semitism in the black community.

UPDATED: I don't come here every day, I was not aware that an entire OP was devoted to the insinuation

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511306736

An OP that contained these comments:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1312309
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1321555
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1311142
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1307003

I'm warning you...if I have to spend more time doing an exhaustive job of tracking down these OP's and comments, I will not be a happy man.

"certain core constituencies", indeed...if that ain't a dog-whistle, then I don't know what is.

[VulgarPoet]

1. That's been said? I... Ew. How the fuck does that even match up in someone's head?

[Chitown Kev]

4. ...I really don't even know anymore...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1365583

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1365638

[VulgarPoet]

7. ...What in the *fuck.*

I mean, I've said before Bernie needs to work on his black outreach some, but I can't make the mental feat of gymnastics to happen to assume that half of my culture is "more anti-semitic" or some horseshit like that.

The only upside here is that's a low post commenter; and more than likely will say something outright against TOS and not just blind as fuck stupid-- I'm willing to hold both candidates responsible for shit, but to imply southern black people are "more anti-semitic" just plays out like some kind of right winger shit.

[jeff47]

12. Yes, one 56-post poster, created 10 days ago, is entirely representative of all Sander supporters.

[Chitown Kev]

23. Don't make me use the search function here at DU

You don't want to do that to yourself.

[jeff47]

26. Go ahead, chief.

You should realize bringing in posters who are still subject to MIRT is not exactly indicative of much.

[Baobab]

55. Im surprised that they arent freaking out becase of T*SA, dont they know?

Government services that compete with private services- like the post office, teaching, health care in countries that have public health care (unless the Europeans can stop it there and get a carve out now) will be hit really really hard.

See: https://www.policyalternatives.ca/publications/reports/tisa-versus-public-services


and

----------

Hillary is 200% behind it, she has to be, because if the media blockade ends and the real picture of the 20 years of healthcare hell we've gone through as a prelude to this - and the changes they are planning come out before the election, she'll be doing a LOT of explaining. And she wont have even a remotely true explanation, she's just have to lie herself in deeper and deeper..

Remember Obama and Elizabeth Warren a few months ago, like that..

[azurnoir]

70. well here's one it;s a discussion thread on the topic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=23234

[Joe the Revelator]

5. To be fair, and i am NOT saying this is the case in this election, but....

if we are going to bring it up, there has been a long struggle with anti-semitism in all communities including the black community. No need to pretend differently.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/19/entrenched-anti-semitic-views-very-rare-among-whites-and-asian-americans-common-among-blacks-and-latinos/

According this article, ADL surveys show that “approximately 12 percent of Americans hold deeply entrenched anti-Semitic views.” However, over 30% of African Americans and Latinos hold such views. Given that they are almost 30% of the population, this suggests that of the 12% of Americans who hold deeply entrenched anti-Semitic views, 9% or so are African Americans or Latinos. This means, in turn, of the 70% or so of the population that is not African American or Latino, only 3% hold deeply entrenched anti-Semitic views.

[Chitown Kev]

10. We are talking VOTING behavior

Usually, black folks have to vote for someone that they don't particularly care for.

If black voters were so anti-Semitic, why wouldn't black folks have abandoned Gore-Lieberman...

oh, that was something that nice white progressives did in 200, right?

[Joe the Revelator]

13. How many Jewish presidental candidates have their been? Would Lieberman have won a primary?

Not that he should have, because he was a terrible democrat, but the analogy doesn't hold.

[jeff47]

14. No, nice white progressives also voted for Gore-Lieberman.

But good job stirring up that racial animosity.

Gore-Lieberman lost due to low turnout among independents. The campaign theme was....I honestly still have no clue. Run away from Clinton, run away from damn near everything. Which is why independents didn't vote - Gore gave them no reason to vote for him. Gore only gave them reasons to not vote for others.

[Chitown Kev]

20. Nice white progressives voted for Ralph Nader

and Gore lost Florida and New Hampshire, in part, because of that.

[jeff47]

25. Nope!

200,000 registered Democrats in Florida voted for W.
20,000 registered Democrats in Florida voted for Nader.

The number that is 10 times smaller is not the problem.

Again, turnout among independents in 2000 was bad. Gore ran a very bad campaign, as he himself admits.

[Chitown Kev]

51. No argument there, actually

[timmymoff]

77. If there is no argument you would remove your grossly incorrect post.

[JI7]

33. yup most black people voted for gore/lieberman. most whites did not

[Joe the Revelator]

2. 'I have Jewish friends'

[Chitown Kev]

6. No...black voters VOTE for Steve Cohen

In spite of the fact that yes, some of his African American opponents (usually the pastors) throw anti-Semitic shade.

[Joe the Revelator]

8. So that means there is no anti-semitism in the black community?

I don't really understand the point here, other than pointing to one district and saying 'see! we vote for jews!'

[Chitown Kev]

15. Cohen beats African American opponents with EASE

and yes, African American opponents have resorted to anti-Semitic tactics...Cohen has been involved in primary races that have gotten NASTY.

The people that actually VOTE for Cohen don't give a shit.

[JI7]

17. it means anti semitism has usually not played a part when it comes to elections

For black voters.

[Joe the Revelator]

22. With one candidate in one election. It doesn't mean that there isn't a larger issue.

As kev says, in those races, black community issues still throw around anti-semtic charges. So it's not a non issue.

As i said originally, i don't know if it has anything to do with this election, or the (imo) unfounded mistrust of Bernie, but if Kev is going to bring up the issue, lets talk about it.

[JI7]

27. it's not just one election. there are jewish candidates who run for office

And black voters have usually voted for them.

[Joe the Revelator]

32. There are 28 Jewish members of congress....

aside from Mr. Cohen, most of them rep Jewish 'strongholds'.

Do you have any demographic information that says otherwise?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewcong114.html

Senate
(9 Democrats, 1 Independent)

Michael Bennet (D-CO)
Richard Blumenthal (D-CT)
Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
Benjamin Cardin (D-MD)
Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
Al Franken (D-MN)
Brian Schatz (D-HI)
Bernard Sanders (I-VT)
Charles Schumer (D-NY)
Ron Wyden (D-OR)
House
(18 Democrats, 1 Republican)

David Cicilline (D-RI)
Stephen Cohen (D-TN)
Susan Davis (D-CA)
Ted Deutch (D-FL)
Eliot Engel (D-NY)
Lois Frankel (D-FL)
Alan Grayson (D-FL)
Steve Israel (D-NY)
Sander Levin (D-MI)
Alan Lowenthal (D-CA)
Nita Lowey (D-NY)
Jerrold Nadler (D-NY)
Jared Polis (D-CO)
Jan Schakowsky (D-IL)
Adam Schiff (D-CA)
Brad Sherman (D-CA)
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL)
John Yarmuth (D-KY)
Lee Zeldin (R-NY)*

[Chitown Kev]

36. This is derailing the point, for one

Two, Jan Schakowsky has NO problem getting black voters...I know that for a fact because she's my Congresscritter and there are lots of blacks in her district

[Joe the Revelator]

40. How is this derailing the point? Its a direct reply TO your point.

[JI7]

39. rahm emanuel got large percentage of black voters

[sufrommich]

3. They are desperately throwing anything against the wall

they think may stick. It does nothing more than repel those they claim to be "concerned" about.

[KingFlorez]

9. That logic was being thrown around a couple of weeks before the primary

Most of the voters likely didn't even know Sanders was Jewish, so it's dumb logic.

[JI7]

11. rahm Emanuel also. another reason many were angry at

black voters.

[Chitown Kev]

18. Yeah..if you want to look at it like that...

you can even refer to some of Dr. West's comments about President Obama

[GoneFishin]

16. Straw man? Just making shit up? Is there a concrete case of this?

[Lucinda]

21. Yep. Didn't save the links, but you should be able to find it if you look. n/t

[jillan]

30. With this poster it's more like stirring shit up

Yesterday it was Bernie told an audience at a rally in Minnesota that they were smart when they were joking around about his $27 contributions and this poster interpreted it to mean that Bernie was implying the voters of South Carolina who have a different demographic were not as smart. Not joking.

[GoneFishin]

35. I know. It's all dirty tricks with them. No explanation of how HRC is going to make our lives or the

country better. Instead they put their resources into smearing Bernie every fucking day with some new fake shit.

[Baobab]

67. Can't allow uncontrolled speech at Hillary's events because people might ask questions

she cannot answer, on things like the effect of pending secret deals on public higher education, health care or public employment.

She can't go there. So they have to be more and more [self-censored] the more questions they lie about.

[tammywammy]

58. It was in this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511364733

[Lucinda]

19. KNR

Righteous rant!

[mcar]

24. K&R

[Arazi]

28. There is history there

Anti semitism in the black community has history. The NOI, the black power movement, Jesse Jackson and Andrew Youngs comments etc, it's out there

According to surveys begun in 1964 by the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish organization, African Americans are significantly more likely than white Americans to hold antisemitic beliefs. There is a strong correlation between higher education levels and the rejection of anti-Semitic stereotypes for all races. Black Americans of all education levels are significantly more likely than whites of the same education level to be anti-Semitic. In the 1998 survey, blacks (34%) were nearly four times as likely as whites (9%) to have answers that identified them as being of the most anti-Semitic category (those agreeing with at least 6 of 11 statements that were potentially or clearly antisemitic). Among blacks with no college education, 43% responded as the most anti-Semitic group (vs. 18% for the general population). This percentage fell to 27% among blacks with some college education, and 18% among blacks with a four-year college degree (vs. 5% for the general population).[83]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American%E2%80%93Jewish_relations

It's ridiculous to think anti-semitism isn't playing a role in this campaign. There's even been anti-semitism here on DU from HRC supporters. How much the black community feels about Sanders' Jewishness I have no idea and wouldn't dare speculate.

[Joe the Revelator]

38. Cosign- Historically, this has been an issue

No use pretending it away.

[Chitown Kev]

41. In terms of black VOTING behavior

Prove it.

[Joe the Revelator]

53. Sure thing: Aside from your single example...

how many Jews are representatives of majority black districts?

Spoiler alert: the answer is none.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_majority_minority_United_States_congressional_districts

[Joe the Revelator]

56. Just to be super clear:

There is only one African American majority congressional district that is represented by a Congressman self-identified as Jewish, Rep. Steve Cohen (TN).

[Chitown Kev]

60. Do they run for office in those districts?

Do they even live in those districts?

I know for a fact that Jan Schakowsky gets a lot of African American votes (maybe 100% of them in her district)...granted hers is not a majority AA district but ~23% of blacks in the Rogers Park area (which has a large Jewish population) and Evanston (~26% black) do have a voice...and that voice speaks quite loudly.

If anti-semitism affected black voting behavior that much, it would be evident in my Congressional district.

[Joe the Revelator]

68. You asked a question, I gave you an answer, I don't know what other metric to use

Other than Jews elected in Black districts.

[Chitown Kev]

80. You could try looking at the percentages of blacks in these various districts

and looking at various margins of victory (or losses)...that's a lot of work though...I happen to live in Schakowsky's district, though, so I do know the lay of the land there.

[Arazi]

63. So you don't think anti-semitism plays any part in voting?

Do you think racism plays a part in voting? If racism does (and it does), then anti-semitism does as well

[Chitown Kev]

64. That was not my thesis here...

my thesis here is quite clear.

[Arazi]

65. "So now it's that black folks won't vote for Sanders because they are anti-Semitic?"

your OP title is explicit

Sanders. Voting. Anti-semitism in the black community

I'd say your thesis is entirely clear . If it's not you know, the title of your OP, exactly what are you hoping to accomplish with this?

It's a proven fact that the black community has some level of anti-semitism and it seems self-evident that for some percentage that will impact their vote

[fun n serious]

71. You're one of them... post 133

You accused me of something soo horrific and nasty!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511319600#post133

[Arazi]

75. Yup, it was anti-Semitic and others agreed with me

thanks for bringing that thread to Kev's attention

[fun n serious]

79. No it was not. NOT at all.

No one but YOU mentioned any such thing. You were out of line suggesting that

[Blue_In_AK]

29. I understand what you're saying,

but do take into consideration that the poster of your linked threads has been here a mere 10 days. It is conceivable that s/he is here to sow discord or make Bernie's supporters look like racists.

[Chitown Kev]

44. I've seen plenty of posts like that here at DU

It might be worth it to take a half hour or so to hunt some of them down...

[Lizzie Poppet]

31. Nope. It's that some folk horribly misinterpret surveys.

Yes, there have been surveys which indicate a higher rate of anti-semitic prejudice among African-Americans than other demographic groups in the US. However, those surveys also show that the large majority did not display anti-semitism. So while there may be a few more people per capita among blacks who would be influenced by anti-semitism to reject Bernie Sanders, to say that anti-semitism played any significant factor among black voters in general would be a lie. The survey data argues directly against that claim.

[Joe the Revelator]

37. So, just to be clear, are you not explaining to Jews what they should and should not feel?

RE: Anti-semitism?

[Lizzie Poppet]

62. I certainly hope not!

[vdogg]

34. +1

[FangedNoumenom]

42. Since sanctimony is the order of the day

I expect to not see any "Bernie supporters didn't vote for Clinton because she's a woman!" idpol rhetoric from your side after he wins. Agreed?

[Chitown Kev]

45. Which side would that be?

I am not a Clinton supporter...

[FangedNoumenom]

46. Ah yes, that's right. I forgot.

You don't support her. You just indirectly shill for her.

[Chitown Kev]

48. How is this shilling for Clinton?

This ain't George W. Bush's world where "You are either for us or against us."

[Chitown Kev]

57. If you say so....

(shrug)

[rbrnmw]

78. He hates Hillary but I like him a lot

[ismnotwasm]

50. No he doesn't

He doesn't care for her at all, and he makes that very clear.

I, however DO support Hillary Clinton and I still manage to appreciate his honesty.

[FangedNoumenom]

61. You appreciate honesty but support Clinton?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

[ismnotwasm]

74. Yawn

[JI7]

43. there is antisemitism in the Green Party which nominated Cynthia Mckinney

[ismnotwasm]

47. K&R

[Mike Nelson]

49. Well...

...we can see how well "Hillary is a racist" worked.

[Joe the Revelator]

54. But 'Bernie is a racist supported by racist' was strangely a killer tactic.

Mind blowing.

[Warren DeMontague]

59. Leaving everything else aside, I think most of us in the party voted for Gore -despite- Lieberman

so I'm not sure what that proves, any more than people voting for McCain in 2008 proves they're not Misogynists because Sarah Palin.

[Chitown Kev]

66. 5 minutes of work...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=504624

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=271294

A whole diary devoted to the insinuation

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511306736

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1311147

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1308866

I could search down more...I will add one of these posts to the main body of the OP

[Vote2016]

69. That's ridiculous. Reseach by the ADL confirms a majority of African Americans are not antisemitic

"Surveys done by the ADL in 2007, 2009, and 2011 all found that the large majority of African-Americans questioned rejected antisemitism and expressed the same kind of generally tolerant viewpoints as the rest of the Americans surveyed. For example, their 2009 study reported that 28% of African-Americans surveyed displayed antisemitic views while a 72% majority did not. However, those three surveys all found that negative attitudes towards Jews were stronger among African-Americans than among the general population at large."

[Loudestlib]

73. Say what?

However, those three surveys all found that negative attitudes towards Jews were stronger among African-Americans than among the general population at large.

[JDPriestly]

72. Check out Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_United_States#African-American_community

It isn't a high percentage of African-Americans who are anti-Semitic, but it is higher than is admitted by white people to pollsters.

On the other hand, I don't know whether anyone polled for fundamentalist Christians.

That might give an even higher percentage. I don't know.

But Wikipedia discusses polls that were made some years ago but not all that long ago.

Facts are facts.

[Chitown Kev]

76. and what does that have to do with VOTING behavior?

Oh, I know that many (if not most) of the black folks in Memphis, Tennessee are more than likely to be highly churchified and sanctified

In fact, some of their pastors have gone after Cohen with some really ugly shit; I make no bones abt. that (I did not utilize the links here as I did in my DK post)

Black voters (at least in the 9th Congressional) don't care.

Look at the demographics of that district and look at the margins by which Cohen wins against SOLID African American challengers (which include the former mayor of Memphis)

These are facts...and, yes, Cohen was the guy who requested a seat in the CBC and was turned down by the CBC...a decision which I disagreed with then and now (esp. since they can let Mia Love be on the CBC)

[Agschmid]

81. Locking, please review the SOP for GDP. Thank you.