Black People don't have to explain why they vote Hillary

[rbrnmw]

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/27/1492251/-Black-People-don-t-have-to-explain-why-they-vote-Hillary?_=2016-02-27T08:24:27-08:00
Black people like Hillary

I was not going to bother saying anything.

But here goes:

This expectation that we black people have to explain ourselves to the satisfaction of white liberals is tiresome and demeaning. Do we ever go around and ask white people to give us an explanation that satisfies our desparate curiosity as to why they are not informed enough to vote for the people who we think are in their best interests? Do we constantly rail against the voting habits of the white population as if we are terribly concerned that their habit of voting republican is destructive to us personally? And if we did, would anbody have the slightest concern about our need to be satisfied with their answer?

This sudden concern for our incarceration, our poverty, our hurt feelings over some remark Hillary made twenty five years ago is remarkable and terribly transparent. The shallow nature of the concern from many is so noticeable that I find it hard to even read most diaries or articles written to appeal to blacks for Bernie.

The constant name dropping of halfway relevant black figures is almost heartbreaking. No matter how often we say it is offensive, we hear cries of ‘you don’t speak for all black people!!!’, from people who have no idea what is feels like to be black.

I would answer your queries, but honestly it has been answered a million times, by hundreds of thousands of black people, and if it is not understood by now, it never will be.

The paternalism of those we call allies, who rant and rage and lash out on us with a mighty fury, ‘for our own good!’, to help us desperate, uneducated, ignorant, uninformed, needing of their guidance souls, become as enlightened as they and finally, finally by GOD vote in what they know, from their pedastal of progressive purity, is in ‘OUR BEST INTERESTS!’ is demeaning and horror inducing. See, they know much better than our dense, weakminded selves what is best for blacks. They remind us day after day how much they know about what we should think, do and want, and how we should vote. How could they not?

That is the answer.

[Armstead]

1. For Krist sake -- It's called campaigning

As a white person I am often annoyed and offended by all political candidates who are trying to "sell me."

Its the fucking nature of campaigning.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

34. And that's fine. But don't be angry at the reaction. The bottom line is that blacks owe you nothing.

That's the point of this OP.

[kingCowan]

160. no one

no one owes anyone anything

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

180. Other than paying taxes. Glad we agree! ;)

[noiretextatique]

195. One point the OP failed to mention

Last edited Sun Feb 28, 2016, 04:30 PM - Edit history (1)

We don't owe our votes to Clinton either. That's a fine point that rarely gets addressed in these pro-Clinton, anti-liberal posts. In the infamous "Stockholm" thread here, several people asked the OP to delete it. That rarely gets mentions in the litany of conspriracies perpetrated by Sanders' supporters against black clinton supporters. I did not see it, but I would have been one of those urging the OP to delete...by shame and ridicule, if necessary.

[AtomicKitten]

210. I would say that goes without saying, but we're through the rabbit hole here.

Their calls for loyalty oaths concomitant with the rationalization of their secret shame, their allegiance to the Clintons (which makes no sense on paper but riled by the challenge of a viable opponent) is striking. This demi-glace of distorted bitterness will no doubt continue, but many in the black community are stepping forward with the truth about the Clintons' dodgy history. They will sort that out themselves in due time as the campaign continues. And in the end, everyone will vote their heart, their mind, and their conscience, as it should be.

[noiretextatique]

211. What an awesome post!

Thank you! So very refreshing to see it. There most certainly has been a lot of noise generated, ironically by two people who claim they are not really Clinton supporters. Anyhoo...I way over the appeals to...not sure what it even is anymore. But I do know it does not resonate...at all...with me.

[AtomicKitten]

214. Keep in mind Bernie announced his candidacy on May 26, 2015

... and on May 27, 2015 this bit of nastiness appeared on DU: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026737025 These obviously orchestrated attacks on Bernie (and his supporters) are suspiciously reminiscent of Rove's demented political strategy of attacking an opponent's strength. Those pretending to have no dog in the hunt that are devoting an inordinate amount of energy to these sustained attacks on Bernie in the context of this election are implicitly endorsing his opponent. Make no mistake about that. I had enough of the ClintonSphere's racial divisiveness in 2008 and this season's version is equally repugnant, so much so that I cannot and will not ever vote for another Clinton.

[noiretextatique]

215. I noticed it too

When I call it the strategy that it is, some people get outraged. It has certainly been equal parts of obvious and dishonest, with a dollop of emotional manipulation. I remember a recent post by a Hillary supporter. He posted an angry, bitter screed demanding answers from Sanders' supporters in one sentence, then claiming he was being incessantly attacked by Sanders' supporters in the next sentence. Hmmm. If you are constantly on the attack, you cannot accuse others of constantly persecuting and attacking you. Well, you can, but most people will know you are a hypocrite, and completely full of But...there are the loyal an faithful minions who are not as obvious (but then they are).

[Betty Karlson]

220. Your replies are so good, I am ashamed I only now discover you have made 26,000 of them

Please continue posting. I find your contributions illuminating and uplifting.

[noiretextatique]

224. Thank you Betty!

For the lovely compliment. see you in the trenches

[Betty Karlson]

219. It's the one point such articles conspicuously fail to miss every time.

Almost a pattern.

What concerns me is how such "we don't owe you white people anything" tirades are prone to elicit a reaction along the lines of "then we won't owe you anything anymore either!"

We saw that happen in 2008, when Proposition (H)8 was passed in California and all of a sudden there were PoC saying "your civil rights aren't as important as our civil rights; your struggle may not be compared to ours because we never had a closet to hide our skin in" - and the reaction from the LGBT community was visceral (especially when the PoC seemed slightly overrepresented among the yes-voters, and the result was so close...).

No good can come from a repeat of those tensions. The air is way too thick to my liking.

[noiretextatique]

226. I totally agree, Betty

I've seen some really stupid shit from white Sanders supporters on Facebook. So, I engage people and discuss the issues...I don't run away screaming about how racist Sanders' supporters are. Likewise with some of my black friends who post "red scare" crap about socialism. I post about what democratic socialism really means. That's what ALLIES do. We hash it out and come to some common ground. That tells me that people who post "Sanders can nevet get Black votes" posts are not allies. There is no point in engaging them, or their agenda.

[bigtree]

2. k&r

[tk2kewl]

3. No one has to explain anything except that candidates

The deciding is up to us.

I don't think everyone that points out a candidates position is asking for an explanation for why their supporters ignore, accept or endorse that position. Some most certainly do, but others are just putting it out there for thoughtful people to consider (and debate if they choose).

[2pooped2pop]

4. I don't think black voters need to explain. I also don't think Sanders or Hillary should pander to

them anymore. I think sanders should let them know he is open and available and should leave it at that. Trying to get them on his side only turns them off it seems. If poc want to change things then they can vote Sanders. If they want to keep things the same, then by all means stick with Hillary. I just don't think anyone is gonna be listening to any complaints if same is what you want and same is what you get.

[EffieBlack]

30. Your lecture to POC is just as condescending as demanding an explanation

[2pooped2pop]

36. Whatever you say

But live with your choice the same as I will live with your choice. I just think sanders should not need to make a plea. It's your lives too. He should just move on. You can follow or be played by Hillary. Your choice, we all know.

[Hortensis]

95. There's a message you're missing in all this.

Understand it and you'll understand why Bernie isn't doing well with that group. There really ARE reasons why they should not just accept no change from Bernie, not accept keeping everything staying the same with Bernie.

One that might be easiest for you to understand is that they have power and are using it to require politicians to address their concerns in order to get their vote. Not some day in a rosy future but now, when he's elected.

BTW, imo, to say Bernie should stop pandering to voters is a really outrageous statement.

[2pooped2pop]

156. Yeah I just don't think he deserves the treatment he is getting

And it doesn't matter what he does he is wrong while Clinton's ass is kissed. Nope, enjoy the power that you seem to think they have right now because when they put Hillary or Trump in, things are going downhill fast. I think they will notice it too.

Enjoy that power.

[Hortensis]

157. I did once feel he may not entirely have deserved the damage

some followers helped do to his reputation and campaign. I did suggest people swallow their bile here and stop sabotaging him, but too late now. At some point he needed to make extremely clear they did not represent him, but he did not. Inexcusably, IMO.

.** The person I support has earned at least some support, and sometimes strong support, from virtually all racial and ethnic groups. I expect that of anyone I vote for.

To make a point I am not sure all are capable of understanding, electing a President is not all about what "you" want.

[brer cat]

169. +1

Well put, Hortensis. Given what is being posted tonight, any bridges that might have existed have been burned to the ground.

[Hortensis]

186. Sounds worse than usual, then. I went off and haven't followed.

[notadmblnd]

153. Remember the "Bow Down Bernie" meme that came from Seattle's BLM?

I do.

[2pooped2pop]

154. Yep. He has more grace than I do.

[notadmblnd]

155. More grace than I also.

I don't think any human being should be required to bow down to another human being. And if Bernie doesn't get the black vote because he won't pander to POC- then so be it.

[brush]

176. Live with your own choice and we'll see who makes it to the general . . .

Condescending posts like yours drive people away from Sanders because they figure that kind of condescension is what's going to be mirrored in a Sanders' White House and his appointments.

[noiretextatique]

225. Any fool who votes based on the musings of supposed Bernie supporters

Is a complete moron.

[brush]

229. People do get turned off. Call them fools if you want . . .

but the off-putting arrogance and negativity of many Sanders supporters have turned many voters away.

[noiretextatique]

231. Fools...and morons eom

[Chakab]

61. I think that it's silly to claim that Sanders should no longer attempt to target black voters, but

I understand where the sentiment in the post that you are responding to is coming from. There has been a sustained effort in the media and online from Team Hillary to paint any attempt to reach the black community regarding Bernie's platform or the reality of Hillary's political history as paternalistic racism. It's disgusting and stupid, and it's angering plenty of people in the progressive wing of the party who have good intentions and aren't bigots.

We're dealing with a couple of basic facts here:

First off, the majority of voters only follow politics at a superficial level. This majority includes black voters. It's not racist or in any way inappropriate to point this out.

Secondly, most black voters in the South either don't know Sanders or have very little idea what he stands for.

This is borne out by the fact that a third of black voters in South Carolina actual think that he favors the rich.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/280661473/CBS-News-2016-Battleground-Tracker-South-Carolina

Given this level of confusion, I don't see how it is at all inappropriate for Sanders supporters to try to communicate Bernie's platform and record and the real effects that the Clinton legacy has had on black America.



***I'd also like to preemptively state that I'm a black man who grew up in Texas before I get accused of "condescending," "Bernsplaining" or "throwing my 'privilege' around" for the umpteenth time.***

[Spacedog1973]

174. Just as condescending

If only the voters knew as much as you about politics, it would all be different, eh? Wrong.

[Chakab]

178. If there's a large percentage of voters who that think Sanders is a tool of the rich, it's

clear that they don't know enough to make informed decisions in the polling booth.

For the record, I'm not blaming the voters. I'm blaming the media, which abrogated its duty to report on policy decades ago, and the DNC.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

38. You last statement is why your candidate will lose. Tuesday can't get here quickly enough.

[2pooped2pop]

44. Oh is that today's reason why he will lose?

It's me everyone! I am the reason that Bernie will lose!

Well, today's reason.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

48. Can't wait! :)

[GoneFishin]

103. So you're the reason. You @#*&%!.

[2pooped2pop]

104. I know

I'm sorry. I deserve every symbol in your expletive.

[immoderate]

5. Black folks can take solace in the notion that white people also vote against their own interests.

--imm

[2pooped2pop]

11. Yes they do

This is some of thereasons that i think white people vote against their own best interest.

Many are busy trying to survive and don't involve themselves in politics.
Many still believe the news is not allowed to lie, so that means Fox too.
Many are attracted to those little soundbytes and don't take time to hear anything longer.
Many are one issue voters. Guns, God, gays come to mind.
Many are convinced that their money is being given to those on welfare who refuse to work or "illegals". They don't seem to have any understanding of corporate welfare.
They cannot resist the constant marketing against all progressive ideas anymore than they can resist buying fruit loops.(or insert other marketed product here)

Many have friends or family on some kind of welfare yet would vote to get rid of welfare. They will not consider EIC as welfare.

And Obama is black.

[immoderate]

13. There's also convergence on the tendency toward conservatism.

--imm

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

67. YOU and others who think as you do are suggesting that blacks are voting against their own interests

That is YOUR opinion.

Those voters think otherwise.

You're welcome to your opinion, though.

[2pooped2pop]

76. I was clearly talking about whites

But yeah it's pretty obvious that blacks do it too. No it's not just opinion. It's the history of Hillary.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

87. So let me ask you this: Are the majority of women and Hispanics also voting against their

best interests?

I mean, let's really think about this:

Hillary Clinton is doing very well among Latinos and Hispanics. In fact, she does much better when matched against ANY Republican when it comes to the Latino vote. Same with women, collectively. Are they, too, voting against their best interests?

Why are people just picking on African American voters? (That is a rhetorical question meant for you and others to think about.)

What I see on DU are a lot of white Bernie Supporters coming for black voters, but saying very little about women and other demographic groups that also support Hillary Clinton.

What I see on DU are a lot of white Bernie Supporters who are belittling and demeaning black voters when they know that if they did the same thing to women or Latinos who also support her, their harassment would never be tolerated.

Somehow it's more acceptable to shit on AA voters, ridicule them, talk down, and even make racist statements about intelligence. Were it any other marginalized group, that behavior would not be tolerated here at DU or elsewhere.

All I ask is that you and those who agree with you think about this and be honest with yourselves.

[2pooped2pop]

90. Anyone not rich who is voting for a republican or for Hillary is voting

Against their own best interest. Watch with me as family and friends sink lower in poverty, face early death, and a system designed to make them fail. This will happen with Hillary just as surely with a republican. If this doesn' t apply to you, then surely you have friends or family that you see it applying to, as do I.

Or maybe you and all of your family and friends are wealthy and just refuse to see others struggling?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

93. I don't understand your response. I'm asking you if woman and other minorities who are

supporting HRC are also voting against their best interests?

Again, I find it fascinating that only black people are being picked on.

[2pooped2pop]

97. No I think my answer is clear. I'm sorry that it doesn't just single

Out black voters so you can rant on it. All non rich, of any color, sex, race, age or other, is voting against their own best interest if they are voting for Hillary or any republican.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

108. O.K., but I'm not the one singling out black voters. The Sanders's supporters are the one.

So if you are asking black voters for explanations, then why not apply the same standards to women, other minority groups, etc.?

That's what I was asking. Not ranting...ASKING!!

[2pooped2pop]

111. I'm not asking black voters anything

I stopped caring a while back. Vote as you like. It's your right to keep things as bad as they are.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

114. Yep. That's right.

[cheapdate]

127. It's an election season.

Many people, those who are prone to do such things, are asking those same kinds of questions about other groups: the Latino vote, women voters, the youth vote, etc., and of course, as is the case every election season, the black vote.

It's what campaign strategists, professional and amateur, do in election season. Every election, the American population is diced into crude demographic groups along ethnic, economic, geographic, age, etc. lines and analyzed and dissected to try to predict how they might vote, or how they might be influenced to vote, etc.

Take it how you want.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

137. I'm taking it as it is: I see it as harassing black voters. If you care to know how varied our

opinions are, please visit the AA Forum. You'll find a wide range of opinions.

It's really not about giving a fuck about black voter, though. It's about harassing and demeaning them.

I'd like to tell those who are guilty to go straight to hell.

[cheapdate]

141. I don't need to be convinced

of the hazard of making generalizations about groups of people. I have found it to be unfailingly true that everyone's opinion and outlook is more complicated than any label or group identity, if you take the time to really dig into it.

AA group blocked me long ago for ridiculous reasons. I'll put it to you that there is less of a "wide range of opinions" in AA group than you might think there are.

(edit : this is where sometimes some people will say, 'well, if they blocked you then clearly you need examine yourself...blah, blah, blah.'

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

143. I don't need to be convinced, either. Bernie Sanders is losing because a large segment of the

black electorate ain't feeling him. You guys can't seem to accept it. If you did, there wouldn't be constant harassment of these voters.

And Bernie Sanders WILL lose! Count on that!

[cheapdate]

148. I don't know or care who the "you guys" is

that you seem to assume I'm a part of. But that assumption is itself a negation of the very idea I expressed in the first part of my last post.

Which, to repeat, was that I've found in practically every case that most assumptions about what another person believes are probably false, and the only way to find out is to ask.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

149. I've heard all that I care to hear. Welcome to IGNORE.

[cheapdate]

162. Works for me. Enjoy the sound of one hand clapping.

[Spacedog1973]

175. I can hear a slapping sound

But it's not clapping

[GoneFishin]

105. You nailed it. If you are not rich and you vote Republican or for Hillary then you are voting

against yourself.

If you are Rich and don't give a crap about people who are struggling to get by, then vote Republican or for Hillary.

[2pooped2pop]

106. Sadly, yes. N/t

[TM99]

85. So you believe PoC

are magically superior to whites now? So we have never, will never, and do never vote against our own best self-interest?

Americans on the whole have been voting against their best self-interests since the Reagan revolution of the 1980's.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

88. "So you believe PoC View profile are magically superior to whites now?"

Well, it's you who believe that AA voters are dumb to be voting for HRC, so if you believe that, then it's YOU not me who believes that white voters are superior when it comes to voting choice.

[TM99]

92. I think everyone who is voting for Clinton

is voting against their own best self interest. Well unless of course, you are beyond mid-life, make more than $250,000 a year, and never have to worry about your job being out-sourced, your health problems bankrupting you, and your kids not being able to afford to get a college education.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

94. I respect your point of view. Thanks.

[TM99]

96. You bet.

I don't think anyone is superior. I have counseled human beings now for over a quarter of a century. My experiences have shown me that we all live in denial, we all justify and rationalize our often very poor choices, we all act without fully comprehending the consequences both good and bad of our actions, and that even if we do have that awareness, we still act against our own best self-interest anyway. This applies to all of us - black, white, brown, male, female, gay, straight, bi, trans, etc. None of us are immune to this behavior. Nor are our larger communities.

I am equal opportunity in my condemnation of irrational, self-defeating, and self-harming behavior.

[GoneFishin]

110. Yep. All of these problems stem from tension between average Americans versus corporate profits.

And Hillary isn't going to do shit to interfere with corporate profits. So average Americans can go pound sand (as soon as she gets your vote that is).

[TM99]

121. The moneyed power elite through out history

have always pitted the average citizen against each other.

This time is no different. This thread is a sad example of it. Oh, hell yes, Clinton cares about you if you are white, black, gay, Hispanic, etc. with just a few caveats. You need to endorse her, lie for her, fund her, and then you, too, can enjoy the good life at the top.

For the average white, black, gay, Hispanic, etc., what the fuck have we gotten out of the neoliberal economic and neocon foreign policies since they rose to ascendance in the 1980's. It only took about 25 years to finally get marriage equality but LGBT civil rights still lag behind in the work arena for example. Whatever advances AA's were making during and after the civil rights era has turned into mass incarceration, police violence, and flat economic growth. We have not seen any meaningful immigration reform that would help countless Hispanics. And the once very strong white middle class has seen their jobs out-sourced to foreign countries or replaced domestically by H1B visa workers forcing them into the netherworld of the perpetually unemployed. And we all have seen the rise of mandated health insurance (not healthcare!), flat & stagnant wages, food cost inflation, outrageously expensive college educations, and a few corporations controlling the media, entertainment, and banking industries.

But hey pitting us against us instead of us against them has historically worked out quite well. Why stop now, eh?!

[Chakab]

63. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people participate in our political process in an utter state of

confusion due to the corruption of the "news" media.

The only way to get fully informed about the reality of American politics is to dedicate yourself to researching it.

[2pooped2pop]

77. Yep

So true. The loss of our media was the loss of our democracy.

[m-lekktor]

6. Bravenak is lucky to have you post her stuff from KOS while she is timed out here!

She is on a visceral mission for sure.

[wyldwolf]

37. Kinda like the crap posted from MannyGoldstein who is banned from DU?

[polly7]

79. Manny didn't ask anyone to post anything for him anywhere. Period. nt.

[wyldwolf]

83. Sure he did, but why would that matter?

[polly7]

84. NO, he didn't. nt.

[wyldwolf]

98. Yes he did but why would does it matter

[JTFrog]

115. +1 n/t

[polly7]

146. No, he didn't. Lies matter. nt.

[wyldwolf]

147. yes he did

[rbrnmw]

101. And bravenak didn't ask me to post this for her

It was me who posted it on my own

[giftedgirl77]

132. That wasn't the point.

At all.

[giftedgirl77]

131. Haha, I should've read the posts first bc I just pointed out the same shit.

[giftedgirl77]

130. Considering Manny's shit gets posted here & he was tombstoned

you might want to lay off the nonsense.

[msanthrope]

172. Shit! I did not know that was Bravenak. Thanks for the Striesand. nt

[Jester Messiah]

7. It's just confusing is all.

Why so keen to shoot yourselves in the foot that way? It makes no sense.

[ismnotwasm]

8. K&R

Saw another one of her articles trending on Facebook too.

[SidDithers]

9. DU rec before the inevitable alert...nt

Sid

[NWCorona]

10. Either engage in the discussion or don't.

When I started supporting Bernie. I had white people telling me I was crazy. It didn't bother me one bit.

[whatchamacallit]

12. No one has to

but nobody gets to control the dialog either.

[840high]

22. +10

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

40. And that also means that you have to accept people's answers when you do dialogue.

It works both ways.

[whatchamacallit]

58. Ultimately I do accept them

but questions and challenges are part and parcel of an Internet forum. Calling Sanders supporters white supremist, misogynist, affluent Volvo driving, commie, Berniebros doesn't exactly scream acceptance of their choice of candidate.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

65. Are black DUers here doing this? If so, shame on them. But, come on. I don't see this on a large

scale here.

What I do see on a large scale here is questioning black voters' intelligence.

What I do see here on a large scale is talking down to black voters who disagree even after an explanation has been provided over and over again.

What I do see here are Sanders supporters issuing "hides" on AA for rather innocuous things that are stated but that are contrary to said candidate.

What I do see here, quite frankly, is a lot of racism coming from Sanders supporters here on DU.

We have been talking about this over at the AA forum for quite some time.

And indeed, there have been plenty of OP threads, discussions, statements all over DU from POC DUers about what they are not supporting Bernie Sanders. The problem is that for the Sanders fans, they simply either don't want to listen or accept the explanations.

[whatchamacallit]

74. I hear you, but just so we're clear

I question the wisdom of anyone voting for HRC, regardless of their demo. I agree that when the questions are aimed specifically at PoC, it seems patronizing. Especially when the concern goes from simply being perplexed, given Hillary's record, to insinuating ignorance. That needs to stop.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

81. We're on the same page, then. That is a start. And I believe that when it's all said and done...

...and the primaries are over, I do believe that the Democratic Party will recognize the urgency of coming together.

I appreciate you being civil with me.

I make jokes about Super Tuesday and being impatient for HRC's win, but everyone that knows me should know by now that I can't stand HRC and Bill. I literally hate them.

However, I have not been persuaded by Sanders, either.

And my primary is not until late April when I have vowed not to vote for that office and just select down ticket candidates instead.

However, even though I cannot vote for HRC if she's the GE candidate, I will support the Democrats to the very end.

[whatchamacallit]

86. Dig

[DonCoquixote]

140. so we can all agree on one thing

That the 2016 election process has turned out one of the worst crops in years.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

145. Yes. I blame the DNC which shoved HRC down our collective throats for years.

The result? Scaring away or otherwise discouraging other great candidates to run.

Also, prompting a so-called "fringe" candidate to go up against her who has little chance of beating her or the Republicans.

[DonCoquixote]

158. nods

as we speak,I am thinking of an Op of "what does the dem party look like after Clinton?"

[noiretextatique]

191. I cannot deny SOME of that happens

But I disagree that is a giant conspriracy, and it most certainly not coming just from Sanders supporters. As a black Sanders, supporter, I can tell you that I have experienced all of the above from Clinton supporters here. Some feel they have some especial license to do it because the BIG STORY has been the mistreatment of black Clinton supporters here. I point it out every time it happens, as it just did in a thread here, because there has been so much attention focused in the other direction. So...I emphatically reject the notion that only black Clinton supporters have experienced racism here. And certainly that has been the claim...not accusing you of that, btw. But it has been the claim, and I don't buy it. I am not a fan of many of those who have been held up as victims, so perhaps that colors my view. I think some of their posts should have been hidden.

[w4rma]

14. The Hillary supporters here are just as icky as they were in 2008.

Almost the same bullcrap with a slightly different twist.

[Nitram]

64. Gret points, w4rma.

Obviously the OP didn't have your insight into human character. "Icky bullcrap with a different twist." Sounds like a 2nd grade playground conversation.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

70. Given that a majority of DUers are Sanders supporters, I see it much more from that side.

Yes, HRC supporters have their issues, no doubt. However, I don't think they've been badgering black voters for who they support for obvious reasons. But who knows? I've also been barred from the HRC group so maybe they're just as bad.

Honestly both camps are exploiting race for their own political reasons.

I find it disgusting and despicable. However, I see much more of that from the Sanders side.

[w4rma]

128. I think 80%, or so, of DU supports Sanders. That should say a lot about Clinton's shallow support.

She's a combination of astro-turf, uninformed voter, fear, and pro-wealth transfer to the 0.01%.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

136. Honestly, DU tends to be more ideologically liberal/progressive than the larger Democratic

Party electorate. Let's face it: We are in a bubble.

[w4rma]

138. Issue polls say otherwise. (nt)

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

139. Ahhhh the fucking polls. O.K.

[noiretextatique]

200. From the Bernie supporter side

My friend Caterina, a Bernie supporter, was accused of not being a "real" black person by some in the,AA group. I get told constantly by white Duers what black people think and how they will vote. But since it is all from Clinton supporters, it is perfectly ok. I totally see this from a different perspective, and it is equally disgusting coming from that side.

[Chakab]

134. What's really disconcerting and despressing is the fact that people who were subjected to

her shit the last time around are now fervently supporting her.

There's no way in hell that she should have any significant black support after the way that primary against Obama was run irrespective of the fact that the Clinton policies on balance were disastrous for black America.

[w4rma]

135. No kidding on that point. She ran a completely racist campaign of smears and innuendo in 2008.

And, as of late, she has been giving us a repeat performance.

[Kentonio]

15. No-one has to explain why they vote for a particular candidate. Your vote is yours and yours alone.

Whatever color you are though, if you do vote for her then you lose your right to complain if she wins and then fucks you over later. After how long she has been on the scene, if you don't know her by now then you never will.

[ananda]

17. This is very sad.

So now "white liberals" are the bugaboos for Blacks?

This is so insane it beggers belief. But it does explain
why BLM went after Sanders and not Clinton.

And yes, this does mean that many Blacks will be voting
against their best interests by choosing Clinton just because
what?.... she's not a "liberal"?

MLK is turning in his grave.

[Nitram]

57. I'm not sure, ananda, you have the right to suggest what MLK is doing.

I didn't hear the OP say that "white liberals" are the bugaboos for Blacks. Rather, that white liberals too often explain in righteous terms why Blacks don't understand "what's good for them." Your post and others here confirm that. Bernie supporters need to focus on positive reasons to vote for Bernie instead of negative reasons not to vote for Clinton if you want to make a persuasive argument.

[TM99]

91. Why is this any different

than when black, Hispanic, or LGBT Clinton supporters here try to convince others that Clinton is best for those demographics?

Every race, gender, orientation, etc. has their own opinion of which candidate is the best for the communities that they come from.

What pisses me off is that the Clinton campaign started day 1 after Sanders Vermont announcement speech to inject this poisonous identity politics divisive meme. They started counting the number of 'colored' people at rallies. And it went from there. Once Brock really got things going, we are now hearing constantly that the game is done. Clinton is the winner. After the Hispanics in Nevada and the Blacks in South Carolina vote as they should, then we will have the clear winner.

Don't people see that THAT is the objectifying and racist Clinton Machine all over again. Be pissy at Sanders supporters, white or minority, all you want, but that is the campaign that is using identity politics, racial objectification, and assumptions of superiority to win at any cost.

That's one big reason why I question my fellow minority leftists here. And that is also why I draw the conclusion that like any voting block, no one is immune to willful denial and voting against one's own best self-interest.

[Nitram]

216. the difference, TM, is that they don't tell you you shouuld vote for Clinton because...

...she's "good for white people." You just don't get it, do you? White 'splaining why POC should vote for Sanders instead of Clinton is patronizing.

[TM99]

217. Oh bullshit.

They do too. The amount of objectifying, black 'splaining, white 'splaining, etc. is coming strong from the Clinton camp and has since last year.

Are you a PoC? If not then you are just white 'splaining to me. And if you are then we solidly disagree. Isn't it nice to know that PoC are not a monolithic group?

This 'problem with race' meme is the creation of the Clinton side. Period.

[Nitram]

218. No, the factual race "meme" is that Sanders does not have the long term relationship with...

...PoC that Clinton does. Yes, he marched and demonstrated for Civil rights, and I respect him for that. But the reality of being a Vermont Senator is that there has never been the opportunity to build the relationships with PoC leaders and people that Clinton has over her entire career. Clinton has the advantage with that demographic whether you like it or not. It is not a "creation" except in terms of the hard work and political capital Clinton has spent developing that trust and affection.

[TM99]

221. Sanders has not far more than march in the 1960's.

Look it up from supporting Jesse Jackson in 1998 to speaking out against the crime bills of the 1990's to working with cross-overs in the Congressional Black Caucus who are also members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus which he founded.

Clinton has relationships with establishment Democrats, of course. She has a history of harming the AA communities. That is a given.

That is not trust. That is not affection. Why, because she prayed with a group of SC pastors who were likely still as anti-LGBT as she once was?

Bullshit. It is an illusion.

Now would you answer the question. Are you a PoC?

[Nitram]

222. There you go again, denying the African american experience of the clintons's one the years, and

insisting you're right and they're all wrong. Must be nice to be in such a position of superior knowledge and understanding. Maybe you'll just never get it.

[TM99]

223. Are you an AA?

Why do you refuse to answer the question.

I am bi-racial. I have an entire side of my family that is AA. I have lived this experience. Have you?

[bravenak]

228. I agree.

[ananda]

113. You are making my point exactly!

Much confusion is being sown around the issue of race in this campaign,
and of course in the country at large.

My thinking always veers towards the simple. Simply put, Sanders is
by far the best candidate for people -- and this means everyone,
including Blacks -- and Clinton is the best candidate for corporations,
banks, and the rich.

Put two and two together, and if it doesn't equal 4 -- meaning a vote
for people -- then it's 5 and we're all screwed.

[forest444]

18. Nobody does; but we should all be able to explain why if asked.

And given the Clinton's history with issues of greatest concern to the African-American community, Hillary's just lucky that black voters in general find her husband so likeable (and hey, I guess is - but still).

[malthaussen]

19. Who said they did?

Asking for information or explanation is just that, asking for information or explanation. You may respond or not to that request at pleasure. It's a free country, and you're free citizens.

-- Mal

[wryter2000]

20. K&R

White people are a total embarrassment sometimes. I learned a long time ago to open my ears around non-white people and keep my mouth shut unless I understand what I'm talking about.

[Nitram]

60. good advice, 2000.

Even then, listening can go farther than 'splaining'.

[2banon]

21. "horror inducing" seems a little over the top to me

of course no one has to explain their vote to anyone.

The right to a secret ballot and all that.

The point is not that "Black" (actually anyone) people must "explain" their vote, the only point is to assist in furthering understanding among citizens.

that's not an unreasonable request and it certainly isn't horror inducing.

[jalan48]

23. Do all black people think alike? Are some conservative? Some progressive?

I agree-why should they have to explain their political position, they're no different than anyone else.

[That Guy 888]

24. Weird, I'd like an explanation why from anyone who would want to vote for Clinton, except...

Last edited Sat Feb 27, 2016, 04:15 PM - Edit history (1)

for those who think $250,000 a year in income is solidly middle class. Those people I couldn't see voting for anyone else.

[Gothmog]

25. Good article

[SoLeftIAmRight]

26. I ask every person why about everything

most people have little to say

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

31. That's because you're not owed an explanation if they don't want to share it. It's none of your

business.

Have a nice day!

[SoLeftIAmRight]

33. I am sure that the best way for people to work together

is to never express what they think - feel - and believe.

What a wonderful world.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

41. Of course, but again, you're not owed an explanation. And when an explanation is provided,

you can either accept it or not. It's simple. This is still a free country.

It seems that when black folk do provide an explanation, they were ridiculed for it if it doesn't support the candidate in question. And both sides are guilty.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

52. ridiculed

not good - ever

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

66. Yep. Agreed. Discussions throughout the AA Forum if concerned. In fact there are several new threads

[SoLeftIAmRight]

68. sad - not strong enough today to explore

be well

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

72. You too!

[SoLeftIAmRight]

73. yep - I feel spent

...

[tazkcmo]

27. No they don't

Anymore than white people. Present the candidate's stances, history, agenda. Then leave people alone. You don't win hearts and minds over night and never will with, "Why are you so stupid?" which is what I read on this site every time I read "Why AA's should support Sanders".

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

167. Thank you so much for this. Very much appreciated.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

28. Thank you! We don't owe anyone shit! And we don't have to explain ourselves...to ANYONE!

I don't care who you vote for, you have a right to support whomever you want...or no one at all.

Thanks so much!

[retrowire]

29. ... but there are black liberals asking for the explanation as well. nt

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

42. But other than Cornel West, they're not talking down or arrogantly condescending their fellow black

voters.

[retrowire]

50. And thats fine though.

its just that the op wants to pretend that the dialogue is only white vs black.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

56. I didn't get that from the OP. I get that it is a reaction to many of the white liberals who

are condescendingly questioning black voters, particularly in light of the collective choice not to support Bernie Sanders.

I'm sorry, but I don't see much of that coming from the other direction.

It needs to stop.

[ybbor]

32. That's funny, I thought she hated Hillary

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=476666

[melman]

47. Whatever gets the most attention

[noiretextatique]

196. Yep

But most of her posts are anti-Sanders and seem to be pro-Hillary

[Geronimoe]

35. Of course no one needs to explain their vote

On the other hand listing 5 or 10 top reasons you support a candidate would be a lot easier than this bellyaching. Unless of course you don't have any reasons.

It is also presumptuous to believe some ordinary white folk are not honestly concerned for their fellow citizens, or citizens of other countries, regardless of race, gender, nationality or other. It was white Quakers that ran the underground railroad to free slaves. Yet perhaps this is the reason some are voting for Hillary, they might think no way Bernie or other elder white guy cares.

Bill Clinton's three strike law put a lot of poor people away for a very long time, for simply shop lifting food or clothing for his/her child.

[Nitram]

51. That sounds an awful lot like whitesplainin' Geronimoe.

I'd recommend reading the OP again for a better perspective.

[EffieBlack]

99. Correction: white Quakers did not run the Underground Railroad

They participated in it, along with many, many other people, black and white, slave and free, of all faiths.

[WayBeyondBlue]

39. Agreed

No one needs to explain their vote. Since Goldwater the U.S. electorate has been divvied up and compartmentalized to maximize the effect of the propaganda directed at it. Both major parties do it, however the Republicans are more "in your face" about it and so they get the notoriety.

At the end of the day as long as we get as many people as possible to participate not only in voting, but in the process of researching candidates at local, state, and national level and then acting in whatever interests they hold most important, the government we deserve should take form. The idea is to feel good about what you did on voting day.

That holds for supporters of Hillary, Bernie, and yes, even Trump.

[Nitram]

43. Thank you for the post, rbrnmw.

Well said!

[polly7]

46. Who said they did ?? nt.

[DCBob]

49. Well said.

[cherokeeprogressive]

53. The problem is she won't be just black people's President.

We'll ALL get fucked.

[BillZBubb]

54. More bullshit from bravenak--who is on timeout for a reason.

She posts incendiary baloney like that cited in the OP.

She never answers the question, she simply rails that it is being asked. That is because she knows her argument for is very flimsy. It's a defensive maneuver and very tiresome.

[polly7]

71. I wish the poster of the OP had put in the writer of the piece and I wouldn't have bothered to

go read it.

[kwassa]

107. Bravenak is on timeout because of alert stalking ...

and highly biased juries. Some of her hides are ludicrous.

[melman]

117. Of course

She gets suspended over and over again because everyone is out to get her.

[kwassa]

122. Actually, yes.

You haven't been following the story.

There really are some rabid people out to get her. This is not a myth. Analyze the five hides on her transparency page, and tell me which ones you think are really justifiable.

[noiretextatique]

197. Yep...because she is such a strong voice

That most of her posts make ZERO sense and when she bothers to respond, it's with cryptic one-liners

[Blue_In_AK]

230. Speaking only for myself,

whenever I get called for her juries - which has happened more than once, I can assure you - I very seldom hide them simply because I don't want to contribute to her sense of being persecuted, no matter how disagreeable I might find her post.

[cui bono]

159. No, it's because she is a smearmongerer and an admitted troll.

They even call her a smearmongerer on dkos. I don't know if she's doing it for shits and giggles or because she seriously has mental issues, but I certainly have my suspicions.

Either way, she simply makes no sense and spreads a whole lot of disinformation on purpose.

.

[kwassa]

164. You are wrong beyond description.

Anyone familiar in any serious way with the black community knows not only how right she is, but how well she writes about it.

Are you one of the stalkers?

[noiretextatique]

194. I must agree

She posted a blatantly dishonest, nonsensical OP about Sanders' thinking all black people are poor. She replied with equally nonsensical one-liners, then a racist troll came along and insulted her and another of her allies. And that incident became the BIG STORY. Color me unimpressed by that supposed "strong voice."

[noiretextatique]

192. Maybe it is because of HER actions and posts?

Naw...must be the BIG conspriracy

[kwassa]

204. No.

[noiretextatique]

212. Yes...see how that works?

Your opinion is just that: an opinion. All the speculation in the world will not change that.

[ZX86]

55. Hilliary voters need a safe space now?

Open and honest discussions between all communities on issues of public policy is a good thing. As a person of color I'm more than happy to explain my votes and advocate for my candidates when ever asked. I don't find it offensive. It's part of the political process. Those of course looking to be offended will always find what they want.

[BillZBubb]

75. Wonderful post. That's the attitude we need from every Democrat.

This "I am offended that you'd ask me why I am voting for so and so" nonsense has got to end. It is a political discussion group, that's what we do--ask people their reasons for believing or not believing in issues or candidates.

[kwassa]

109. Telling black people what is in their best interest is not a good thing.

It is about lecturing, not open and honest discussions.

[ZX86]

123. I tell people what is in their best interests all the time.

Education, vaccinations, any and all health and safety issues etc. and I hope others do the same with me. I am much more interested in doing what's best for my community rather than looking for reasons to be offended for my community. I keep my eyes on the prize.

[kwassa]

124. Remind me not to talk to you at a party.

[noiretextatique]

201. A person who agrees with you probably would not take offense

[fleur-de-lisa]

59. As a white person supporting Bernie

I apologize for the insensitive posts from a few of my fellow Berners when they feel the need to lecture POC.

I don't normally post in the AA group but I read the entries here. The regulars in the AA group are very well informed and make some great points that white people would not likely hear elsewhere. I encourage all DUers to listen to our AA friends at DU and lay off the condescending, paternalistic rhetoric aimed at POC.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

168. Thank you so very much! The AA Forum has many well-informed, very smart posters.

[noiretextatique]

203. I am going to agree, but it applies to Clinton supporters also

It is not nearly as one-sided as that group claims. As a black Sanders'supporter, white Clinton supporters have told me they know how black voters think and how they will vote. They have told me that I "owe" my vote to Hillary and that Bill was the first black president. And more. The difference is...I don't use random comments from individuals to claim there is a conspriracy against me perpetrated by Clinton supporters. If I get a post deleted, I don't attribute that to said conspriracy, as I could. As for the OP, it must be really difficult to reconcile voting for Clinton...for some.

[MisterP]

62. presumably there's a pro-DP, anti-marijuana reform, pro-poverty-doubling, outsourcing, pro-jail

Last edited Sat Feb 27, 2016, 04:45 PM - Edit history (1)

constituency, then? or are we not supposed to think about the Clintons' reliance on the massive disjunction between needs and votes that's been sinking this country for decades, about their transformation of the party into a machine that abuses its own voters, that's made it into a Rahm-run trap? we're told not to resist a fucking Bay of Fundy tide of carefully-orchestrated lies (gushing from the guy who sprayed libel all over Anita Hill, I might add), because someone online shakes their head sadly and says "you're just not helping"?

"This sudden concern for our incarceration, our poverty" has been making the rounds now--and I'm caught wondering, THIS is the new talking point? that DU was completely dead on race and poverty for 15 years running, until a few DUers thought things got too hot at Netroots Nation?! that might not be legally actionable, but it sure is morally obscene, a nauseous perversion of language and memory itself

"Do we constantly rail against the voting habits of the white population"? FUCK yeah! White and/or suburban vote has been put under a microscope, and rightly so--why is our economy set up to export jobs by the millions? Reagan Dems! what fucked our inner cities? white flight! why can't we have halfway decent transit systems? prewar sundown towns that wanna keep the lily in the white! why do our schoolteachers STILL have to calculate how many bullets their ribcage can stop so the kids can flee before teach's corpse slides against the reddened door? brainless fears of race war! the oxy deaths? the tremendous bluelining racial filtration system that is drug enforcement! Love Canal vs. Exide? take a wild guess! why do those with the most scream the loudest! three centuries of flattery and racial division! I can go on: this country's so saturated in race that it's affected how hairpins are manufactured

there's only one motive to ban any discussion about what the Clintons have done to Black America, and I'm PRETTY sure it isn't fear that it might lose Sanders their vote

[Matt_in_STL]

69. Agreed, they don't need to explain their vote at all

Just like those of us who refuse to vote for Hillary in the GE don't have to explain ours.

[MuseRider]

78. Of course not.

This is so uncomfortable to me I cannot even imagine how it is for you.

[6chars]

80. no one should ask or advise anyone about their vote

either way is presumptuous. we can talk about candidates, issues, things like that. i think once you start talking about votes, it becomes about the person you are talking to - by definition personal.

[datguy_6]

82. From what I've heard, her support is fairly generational...

Granted, it mostly anecdotal...though there was a good HuffPo article today that explains it better than I could...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-south-carolina-bill-clinton_us_56d1d0b8e4b0871f60eb9d9e

[FangedNoumenom]

89. If minorities are going to help elect a fascist (be it Trump or Hillary)

Then yes, I am going to speak out and demand an explanation why. You can try to subvert antifa sentiment by painting it as racist. I really don't care. In the end history will prove you as being in the wrong.

[Lizzie Poppet]

119. Bingo.

I'll call out any group that falls for corporatist bullshit. Race doesn't give anyone a pass.

[Iliyah]

100. K & R

I'll vote for who I want and that is HRC!

Thanks for the good read. Democracy will prevail

[Persondem]

102. Kick it!! nt

[Splinter Cell]

112. Anyone who votes for Hillary is a fool imo....

...regardless what color they happen to be.

[betsuni]

116. K&R

[azurnoir]

120. Tell bravenak who wrote this OP at KoS and is on time out here

[great white snark]

125. K&R

I hope this OP survives. Thanks you for posting.

[Vattel]

126. I for one don't want any voter to explain why they are voting for Hillary.

[LittleBlue]

129. Then southern whites don't have to explain why they vote Republican

I don't want to see any more threads questioning why poor/Southern whites vote Republican.

As I've been told, nobody has to explain themselves and nobody should even be questioned.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

144. YAY!! You get it!

[LittleBlue]

150. Yes, but do you get it?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

151. Black people vote however the fuck they want and don't you or anyone else an explanation. That's the

point. You either get it or you don't. No matter how much you harass us, you won't change minds.

[LittleBlue]

152. My point was that it's hypocritical to spend decades questioning why uneducated whites

vote Republican and then do a u-turn where nobody can be questioned about their voting choices.

You either believe in one or the other. Yet we will definitely see it asked again, as it has thousands of times before on DU.

[Recursion]

161. Exactly. "What's the Matter With Kansas?" costs us white votes

We need to get rid of that attitude, yesterday

[srobert]

171. Nobody Has To Explain, But Someone Ought To

And I have every right to question. We live in a democracy and have live with the laws passed by fellow citizens. You advocated a particular candidate, what's your line of reasoning. Persuade me. Southern whites and blacks vote for candidates that endorsed trade agreements which cause both them and me to wind up unemployed because our jobs got outsourced. I have every right to ask them, "what the hell were you thinking?" because I really don't want to work at McDonalds for 7 bucks an hour.

[Number23]

133. LOVE THIS!! Love it!! And I love you for posting it

K&R

[Starry Messenger]

142. k&r

[Autumn]

163. Of course not, neither do people need to explain should they decide to sit out the GE.

People will vote for their best interests and they will vote as their conscience dictates.

[srobert]

165. Whaaa!

"Whaaa! discussing politics with white people is tiresome and demeaning". That's bull. When you live in a democracy and you discuss politics, explaining why you vote the way you do is the essence of the discussion. I explain why I vote the way I do. I expect you to respond in kind. I need to consider your point of view and you need to consider mine. I don't think black people are incapable of making rational decisions. I think you, specifically, might be incapable of making rational decisions, because you just told me you're voting for Hillary Clinton, and I'm having a hard time understanding how a person with a brain inside his head could do that.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

187. If you *DEMAND* or expect people to respond to you, you're going to be very disappointed.

[noiretextatique]

232. Isn't this a demand?

It is a demand to vote for Clinton, like all of her posts. I don't know why people keep falling for this. She is a Clinton partisan, like most in the AA forum.

[Land Shark]

166. Anybody can ask anybody who they voted for and why. BUT TRUE; no one has to answer.

[brer cat]

170. Thank you very much for posting this, rbrnmw.

K&R

[WorkingClass]

173. Who are the natural coalition partners with American Blacks?

Who are black voters building a coalition with when they vote for people like Hillary? When we Democrats walk around our cities and towns, who are our coalition partners, our team-mates?

Far too long, wealthy liberals have taken the black vote for granted. The Republicans capitalized on white anger, fear, and racism in 1968 to vote in Nixon. Political life in America has been downhill ever since. Since 1980, both parties have converged to become one economic agenda with 2 faces. One face is pro-discrimination. The other is anti-discrimination. The economic outcome, however, is always the same.

This election offers a chance to have a real economy for working class people, and to choose anti-discrimination in a candidate like Bernie. Yet American Blacks are rock solid for Hillary.

The only other voting group that is rock solid for Hillary is the wealthy liberal voter in New York and California. Hipsters and upwardly mobile professionals who identify with the cosmopolitan image of the Democratic party. These people together with American Blacks do not make up a large enough block to represent the country. Why should I as a white, working class man vote Democrat if my party rejects a populist like Bernie?

For the first time since 1932, we have a genuine expression from both political party bases that working class people are tired of the establishment offering us empty words. There is nothing in Hillary or the establishment GOP candidates that is believable. Both parties are scared. The media has been so anti-Sanders and anti-Trump for a reason. They are rocking the boat. Hillary and her GOP friends are terrified.

So, this brings me back to my original question. Who are the partners that American Blacks are standing with? Trump wants to strengthen Social Security, remove the corruption in the insurance industry and drug industry. His message is ugly to get the GOP vote, but when you think about it, his economic ideas are very populist. He is driving a wedge through the GOP. Bernie is obviously doing the same with the Democrats.

The next election hopefully will see working class voters from both parties breaking away and forcing a real working class agenda. Corporate voters on one side, working class voters on the other.

The Black vote has chosen the corporate Hillary over Bernie. OK. This election, white working class voters will unanimously vote for Trump. He will actually do economically what Democrats have been promising for decades because he is not a bought man. Neither is Bernie a bought man.

You are judged by the friends you keep. Who are your friends?

[McCamy Taylor]

177. Damn straight!

[jack_krass]

179. Who the hell said they did?

[Lucinda]

181. Not only is she brilliant fun to watch when she posts, she is a damn good writer too!

Thank you for sharing this!

[melman]

183. She's really not

either of those things.

[Lucinda]

184. Oh yes she is.

She is clever, and funny, and a very good writer.

[melman]

189. nope

none of the above.

[noiretextatique]

198. She is good at one-liners

Avoiding direct questions, and playing to her audience. Brilliant? I haven't seen that yet.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

188. Yes, she is! Damn funny, too! ;)

[kwassa]

205. Bravenak is an excellent writer..

Irregardless if I agree with her opinions or not.

[melman]

206. She's not

And irregardless is not a word.

[Codeine]

208. Bravenak is the shit.

I never agree with her on much of anything but I have the utmost respect for her. She's a voice that your lot has to silence because you can't cope with her.

[melman]

209. lol

that must be it, just can't cope.

[noiretextatique]

213. Perhaps I've missed these awesome posts

Admittedly, I haven't been around much. But I haven't seen anything that would support a conspiracy of the kind some people claim. I did see "Sanders thinks all black people are poor" I was not impressed. Now, if some asshole coward did stalk her to a frightening degree as some have claimed...that is intolerable. If it was a DUer, I hope that person was banned.

[MadDAsHell]

182. Well put...and yet we continue to worship the Democratic Party...

When we as a black race start focusing on progressive candidates and stop allowing the Democratic Party to be our 21st century "masters," then we truly start to win.

[Live and Learn]

185. But, they will have to live with their vote. Bad decisions have bad consequences. nt

[noiretextatique]

190. Some black people do not like Hillary

I don't care if a lot of black people do...I don't care if a majority of black people do. I don't feel the need to explain my vote to anyone. But I sure as hell am working to get more of the black people I know to vote for Sanders. And it is working pretty well, thanks to Clinton. Her treatment of the BLM activist/disrupter did no sit well with many people I know.

[Peacetrain]

193. Sorry I cannot rec this twice..

Great post

[Marr]

199. Who said otherwise?

It's a free country-- anyone can vote for whomever they wish. But people can also ask questions. If you've no interest in discussing politics with them, say so. That would be an odd thing to say on a political blog or message board, but we're all perfectly free to do it.

[HassleCat]

202. Don't worry. Everybody gets the "treatment."

Most people vote their hearts, not their heads. They only demand an explanation from those not voting for their candidate. "What? How the hell could you vote for that guy!" Most people don't even bother asking for an explanation because they know voters don't always calculate support based on rational self-interest. Hell, if they did, the Republican Party would have only two or three million members.

I know why some of my fellow Sandernistas engage in the annoying lectures. Like me, they're socialists, democratic socialists, progressives, and members of various other splinter groups from that wing of the party, or maybe even outside the party. There is a lot of theory going on there, some of it related to Marxism, some related to Keynsian economics or radical economics (freakonomics), and political theory. I have a degree in political science and philosophy, so I love this stuff, but I realize the average person has little patience with it, and it doesn't form the basis of effective campaigning to harangue people with stuff they don't care about. When white people are on the receiving end, they react with, "This guy thinks I'm too stupid to make up my own mind." When black people get the treatment, their first thought is, "This guy thinks I'm a simpleton because I'm black." The Big Lecture is just as useless when directed at white people but it scores extra points for being offensive when directed at black people. So I wish we (Sandernistas) would stop doing it, but I know we won't. I hope you will be charitable and keep in mind that it's a relatively small number of highly energetic people, not most of us. Thanks.

[EndElectoral]

207. Trump supporters feel the same way. They don't want to explain either why they are voting for him.

[Zen Democrat]

227. Of course not. But ... people will speculate and that's fair game as always.