Phyrric victory. Lookitup. If she wins the nom, the GE's lost. Celebrate appropriately.

[elehhhhna]

Thanks in advance.

[Jenny_92808]

1. Yes, it would be a

"hollow victory" and the Dem's would lose in the general. Go Bernie!

[SylviaD]

2. Ridiculous.

Trump will not and cannot defeat Hillary.

I admire Bernie but some of his supporters are bordering on delusion. Sorry to sound harsh but this kind of talk is ludicrous. Trump is the weakest candidate the cesspool party has put forward in years.

Romney would be more of a challenge. I have zero doubt that Hillary Clinton can beat Trump soundly.

[libtodeath]

4. I am no where near that certain.

[RBInMaine]

9. The GOP establishing is SHITTING ITS PANTS! Hillary will CRUSH The Trumpet.

[SylviaD]

11. Exactly.

Trump is a "phenomenon" in their primaries but in the general his weaknesses are obvious. A blowhard 1%er who puts his foot in his mouth on a daily basis? I don't think he is beating our candidate.

[Le Taz Hot]

15. Hillary is a loser.

She's never accomplished a damned thing on her own. She just happened to latch onto a charismatic person just as corrupt as herself. She was First Lady of Arkansas, one of the most backward states in the union with the poverty level to prove it, she was given the job of healthcare reform which she completely blew by being so insular (a problem she suffers from today), she was given the New York Senate seat as a prize for her blind ambition and in which she, again, accomplished absolutely nothing, then was given the Secretary of State position as a consolation prize wherein she proceeded to make lots of lucrative deals for her billionaire buddies with lots of kickbacks to the Clinton foundation.

There's a term for people who idolize their abusers but I can't use it on DU.

Hillary. Guaranteed loser. Guaranteed.

[SylviaD]

17. I will await your apology after the general. n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

20. Why would I apologize for being right?

Hillary is a loser. LOSER. GUARANTEED.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. You seem a bit under the weather this morning. I know it's going to be a long day.

Here's a big DU

[randome]

35. Wow. 'Loser' is Trump's favorite word, too.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[grossproffit]

53. +1

[Cobalt Violet]

54. I agree with you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. Trump calls people "losers", not nice...

Hillary is a loser.

Trump calls people "losers", not nice:

She was a National Honor Society member, a Merit Scholar finalist, achieved a B.S. from Wellesley ,a JD from Yale Law School, was a two term senator from a large and heterogeneous state, and Secretary of State.

To suggest somebody with that resume is a "loser" is patently absurd.

[elehhhhna]

50. Ill give her this,

I think she did try to get a consensus on healthcare but she was a First Lady with absolutely no power and the fact that Bill put her in charge of healthcare reform and his vice president in charge of outsourcing the government shows us what bills priorities were.

[zappaman]

59. Take your time.

[Robbins]

25. of course trump can win

but i don't even care.her or trump are terrable choices.and for first election since i turned 18 back in 1992 i will stay home.

Neocons love clinton.where do you think all this money will come for to pay for more wars? cutting social safety net that's where.

if you think everything is great clinton is your candiate.she already said change is too hard.

[On the Road]

32. Maybe Some of the Same People

that said only Kucinich could win a couple of election ago.

[thesquanderer]

42. Hillary would have a tough time against Trump.

The debates could be a nightmare. Here's why: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511335801

[SylviaD]

62. Balderdash. n/t

[Lizzie Poppet]

61. I think Trump would beat her fairly handily.

I think you're underestimating the degree to which the right, particularly the far right, absolutely despise Hillary Clinton. She would motivate their noxious base like no candidate of their own could possibly accomplish. In my reckoning, that factor has always been the elephant in the room with Hillary's candidacy. It more than makes up, IMO, for any possible de-motvational effect on GOP traditionalists over Trump.

Moreover, one of Clinton's most powerful campaign weapons, her willingness to fight dirty and sling plenty of crap, doesn't work very well against Trump. He's annoyingly "teflon," in part because it's hard to come up with "juicy revelations" that are any worse than the shit he says by his own volition...and which seems not to sully him in the eyes of RW voters, but to enhance his status. You and I, I have no doubt, find his spew reprehensible...but our votes count for no more than do those of his supporters.

Ironically, Trump is less beholden to oligarchic big money interests than Hillary. That's almost entirely because he doesn't need their contributions, and it's not like it woudl likely make much difference in their policies towards Big Money (she's beholden to them, he's one of them), but it's still an amusing irony.

Hillary's reliance on Southern state minority voters to win the primary is a very dangerous strategy. In most of those very conservative states, she doesn't stand a snowflake's chance in hell of winning their electors in November.

[SylviaD]

63. Your arguments sound like desperate rationalizations.

Barack Obama - a black man - should have motivated the odious racists in this country more than any other possible candidate. Yet Barack won handily, twice. Why? Because he motivated our side even more and there are more of us than them.

So what if Hillary motivates sexist, anti-Clinton rednecks to come out and vote? She will motivate millions of women to vote, possibly women who have never voted before or who have been browbeaten by their husbands to vote "his way". Millions of minorities will turn out to support the candidate who is carrying on Barack's policies and legacy.

We will swamp their legions of the ignorant with our voters. Trump doesn't stand a chance.

[Lizzie Poppet]

64. And I'd say you're seeing what you desperately want to see.

Obama won, in no small part, not just because he garnered the vast majority of black voters, but also because he significantly motivated younger voters. That latter bloc is conspicuously absent in Hillary's corner, and I feel confident in saying they'll stay home in droves if she's nominated. Beyond youth voters, Hillary fails utterly to motivate far-left voters like me...probably because she's a centrist (at best) with close connections to elements we consider to be enemies of the working people.

Besides, as usual the election will be decided largely by uncommitted moderates in swing states. In a political climate deeply and profoundly sick of the dysfunctional political status quo, running an insider, status quo candidate against an outsider is suicide in terms of capturing that critical group.

And no, I don't agree that Obama was more of a motivator to the far right voter than Hillary would be. The hatred and vitriol seem, to me, to be basically equivalent.

As for the gender angle, I can only say that our mutual possession of a vagina in no way makes me inclined to prefer a candidate who's commitment to women's issues, while undeniable, is no greater in practice than her opponent. That opponent, however, is overwhelmingly more in line with my own views on countless critical issues, matters I value no less than explicitly feminist ones (economic justice, avoidance of war, single-payer healthcare, etc...), because those issues are also feminist ones.

[SylviaD]

65. I must confess I do not understand something...

...and since I enjoy lurking and reading far more than posting, as you can probably tell by my very small number of posts since 2008...I have not engaged in many one on one dialogues here.

So why do "far-left" (your words) voters not connect with Hillary Clinton? Yes she is a centrist, but her policies are far better than those of the other party. We have much common ground!

[Buzz Clik]

3. Yeah. "Phyrric". Look it up, but spell it correctly.

Actually, I did a google on "Phyrric", and this is what I found:



So, apparently, those who cannot spell Pyrrhic also think we won in Vietnam.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. This is so sad...

I am a yuggggge sports fan. It reminds me of the phenomenon "that if my team can't win I will root for any team that plays against the team that vanquished my team."

[GreydeeThos]

5. I see if you don't get your way, you predict disaster

The truth is after " SHE " wins the nomination, the GOP loses. Celebrations begin the night of November 8.

[Buzz Clik]

7. Her OP sounds like a promise, not a prediction.

Many, many DU Sanders supporters have made it clear that they will never support Clinton.

[GreydeeThos]

12. There is this concept called "Positive Mental Attitude"

People who are winners do not go into the most important even in their lives thinking " we have already lost ".

Real winners have an attitude from the very beginning that they are going to be victorious and then work to make it happen.

[SylviaD]

14. Not surprising. n/t

[Codeine]

55. Then those Sanders supporters should figure out

how to get people to vote for him in the primaries.

[RBInMaine]

6. More ridiculous extreme hyperbole.

[Le Taz Hot]

10. She's not going to "win" anything.

She's going to be shoved by the DNC, the Democratic Party and the MSM, right down our collective throats. It doesn't matter to the .01% who the placeholder in the White House is. Just as long as they do their bidding and not ours, party politics is something to keep the little people distracted with the false belief that we still live in a Democracy.

[Buzz Clik]

16. Indeed. "If Bernie loses, it's because Hillary cheated."

Yeah.

I suggest you turn off all your electronics this Tuesday and don't turn them on again until Thursday.

The polls are suggesting Sanders will be annihilated on Tuesday -- no cheating required. In anticipation of this, the media already have started ignoring him again.

[GreydeeThos]

49. +1

[EndElectoral]

13. What's worse, is if she is the nominee, GE turnout will be low costing valuable congressional seats.

[Le Taz Hot]

19. But the PTB in the DNC

don't care. As long as a puppet gets into the White House it doesn't matter if the person has a D or an R next to their name. Absolutely irrelevant as long as the .01% stay in power. Seriously, with their super delegates, they don't actually need us anymore.

[NCTraveler]

18. Pyrrhic.

Then again, I don't believe any word of what you are selling to be accurate.

[SylviaD]

21. Yes from King Pyrrhus the Greek who defeated the Roman legions twice. n/t

[SidDithers]

24. Oh wow...

Sid

[vdogg]

26. Another one to bookmark for November

[DCBob]

27. Giving up 8 months prior to the election??

That's absurd.

[Fred Sanders]

33. Scare tactics are not just for cons....Bernie fans using fear is the ultimate betrayal....and

rather telling.

Clinton will win the nomination because she earned it and is qualified like no other...Sander's is a flight of fantasy soon to be brought to Earth.....but Bernie fans will be welcome by the Party to join in the real fight against fascism...it is what liberals do.

[DCBob]

34. Yeah, its a rather shallow tactic and clearly isnt working.

Cheers!

[Fred Sanders]

37. Clinton is the super predator....of Republicans...they fear her, demonstrably. Bengazhi was not

created for fun, it was created because Clinton is beyond formidable in a general, she is near unbeatable.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. Precisely...

In the French regional elections the Conservatives (normal ones) joined with the Socialists to stop Le Pen's National Front party. On the other hand the Communist part in the Soviet Union prohibited the German Communists from working with German Socialists to stop Hitler.

[NCTraveler]

39. Clear verbiage connected with the...

Time honored tradition of suppressing the vote. It is significant in the media but less so here.

[BeyondGeography]

28. What was it that Sister Mary Elephant kept screaming at those kids?

[DrDan]

29. but after she gets Bernie's endorsement, his supporters will flock to her

thank you also!

[Broward]

30. I'm not sure she can't win, but she'd make a very weak candidate.

Much weaker than Bernie. If she somehow won, her presidency would only benefit those that are already sitting at the top anyway.

[Mister Ed]

31. I just wish some of the clairvoyants in GD:P would give me some stock tips.

"If Hillary wins the nomination, we loooooooose the GE!"

"If Bernie wins the nomination, we looooooose the GE!"

I don't know how people assert these things with a straight face. Or maybe they don't. I wish they'd use emoticons so I'd know.

[emulatorloo]

36. Mainstream voters aren't going to elect Trump

That's why establishment Republicans are so terrified of Trump getting the nomination.

IMHO Cruz and/or Rubio are just as electable.

Either of our candidates will destroy them.

[elehhhhna]

52. You overestimate the Republican mainstream

[Orangepeel]

40. She might lose. But that wouldn't say much for someone who couldn't beat her in a primary

I think either Hillary or Bernie *could* win the general. I think it will be tough for either of them.

I *don't* think that whichever one of the loses the primary would have be able to do any better. The person who loses didn't run a good enough campaign.

[thesquanderer]

44. Primary voters are different from GE voters

You need to appeal far outside your base. So being weaker in the primaries does not equate to being weaker in the general.

[grossproffit]

46. If you can't appeal to the base during primaries, then how does that equate a win in the general?

[thesquanderer]

47. The general electorate is different. So it's not about winning the base.

Most (not all, but most) of the base will vote for their party's candidate in the general, even if they have to hold their nose doing it. So then the key to winning the general isn't winning the base, it's winning the people who *aren't* your base.

That said, Bernie and Hillary both appeal to very large swaths of the base.

And you do not have to win a state in the primary to have it be strong for you in the general. For example, in the 2008 primaries, Obama badly lost New York and Massachusetts to Hillary... yet he still won them easily in the general.

[mythology]

41. Out of curiosity, why is American Crossroads running ads to support Sanders?

The only reason for them to run those ads is that they think Sanders would be easier to be in the general election.

[thesquanderer]

45. American Crossroads = Karl Rove. He thought Romney won even after he lost.

Republicans are not immune to the effect of having blinders on. Like anyone else, they often see what they want to see. I'm sure many feel that Bernie would be easier to beat, that doesn't make it a fact.

[grossproffit]

43. Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

[Codeine]

57. More like the wrong side of a blowout. nt

[stevenleser]

48. Nope, in polling, Trump pulling 16% of Latino vote against Hillary. Less than 40% is fatal. You do

the math.

[bkkyosemite]

51. The elite repubs, corporate cohorts will vote Hillary to stop Trump

as stated on the news. Remember Bernie is dead on arrival...go to hell rigged government.

[rjsquirrel]

56. Absurd

Those grapes are sure sour this morning!

Bless your heart.

[wildeyed]

58. Salty much?

You gonna stomp your feet, then take your ball and go home now?